I guess nothing on BBI should really surprise me. This is a team that overachieved by a wide margin last year and *won* a playoff game. This regime has an 11-10-1 overall record despite many people saying the franchise was years away from even being competitive after 2021. And here we are at 1-2, and we have fans already talking about how Schoen should only get one more off-season to fix it. Someone on the post game thread said if things don't turn around they wouldn't even give Schoen and Daboll 2024.
We really do have some idiots in this fanbase. People here wanting to penalize this regime for overachieving last season. Most people expected regression this season after a lot of one score wins. Vegas had the win total at 7.5.
So, Gettleman gets 4 seasons, but Schoen is lucky to get 3? Schoen hasn't even had the opportunity to draft his own QB (something Reese never got either), but somehow Gettleman gets that luxury?
I just couldn't believe the stuff I was reading last night. Who would want to come here if this franchise reset AGAIN despite winning a playoff game last year when no one expected it.
Everyone needs to relax. The Giants are 1-2 and the season is in its infancy stages.
A lot of comments in the game thread and post game thread.
This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
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I haven't read much criticism or either.
A lot of comments in the game thread and post game thread.
Sorry I meant credible knowledgeable, in-depth fact driven criticism of them.
There’s no way Mara would get of this regime so quickly either. Even they deserved to go, which they don’t.
This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
They were forced into it a bit by last seasons improbable success. So, they made the most of it. $160M is a fake number, the Giants can get off Jones contract after next season. Waller was as much of the Raiders selling as it was the Giants buying. We are seeing why now.
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I haven't read much criticism or either.
A lot of comments in the game thread and post game thread.
That’s all based on emotion. I will say that it’s fair to criticize the duo if this gets to 5 wins or less. I think 2024 becomes a big year then for everyone in the organization.
They put unreal expectations with the playoffs last year. I do understand why people are concerned because of the play of the last 2 draft classes.
You could say Neal, Thibs, Robinson etc. Have under performed so far.
It's funny talking to Niner fans they were surprised how well the Giants played last night and the game plan was solid but didn't have the talent to execute.
Are we not allowed to say we are concerned or worried with some of the decisions playing out and strategies?
I've stated I'm a bit concerned with what the front office is seeing or doing with some of these player evaluations so far, but I'm not calling for Schoen to be fired.
Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
They were never going to look dominant vs Dallas, SF, and later in the year Philly.
They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.
We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.
The deserve a little support in my opinion.
To each their own.
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This is a long term situation
Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.
stating that some of their moves right now don't look so good isn't bailing, it's just reality. some are bailing on the season maybe but i haven't seen anyone bail on either of them.
and most of those bailing on the season seem like the ones who are just back patting their priors, so in other words they arent really bailing bc they werent that high on the team in the first place - which they may have been correct about.
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We can certainly question why we have been dominated this year.
They were never going to look dominant vs Dallas, SF, and later in the year Philly.
Who said dominant? How about at least respectable.
Schoen deserves credit for hiring Daboll. And nobody is bailing on him, but we are keeping score. And the early returns for Thibs and Neal and Okreke and Campbell are less than stellar. So, yeah, we are allowed to keep score and Schoen has to start hitting more, especially with top round picks.
Not really. Part of that long negotiation was to ensure they had an escape hatch which they do after 2024.
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In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:
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This is a long term situation
Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.
If Giants flounder this year and next - they are out the door with Jones too.
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
No, it is not fair. Most predicted the NYG would win 5 games or less in 2022.
They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.
We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.
The deserve a little support in my opinion.
To each their own.
Perhaps you accepted them last as the answer after one year of success. I chose not to because it did not really prove anything. The league is littered with one year success stories that did not amount to anything.
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What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?
This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
They were forced into it a bit by last seasons improbable success. So, they made the most of it. $160M is a fake number, the Giants can get off Jones contract after next season. Waller was as much of the Raiders selling as it was the Giants buying. We are seeing why now.
I can't believe some people are bailing on Waller so soon.
Why have they been dominated? Because they have already played two of the top 5 teams in the league (yeah I know we hate Dallas and struggle to admit when they are good....they are good), one of them with 3 days rest! I maintain the first half of the AZ game was PTSD from the Dallas game! Simply put, the Giants are not nearly at the level of a top 5 team. Not even close. A long way to go in this rebuild.
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What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?
This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
They were forced into it a bit by last seasons improbable success. So, they made the most of it. $160M is a fake number, the Giants can get off Jones contract after next season. Waller was as much of the Raiders selling as it was the Giants buying. We are seeing why now.
They were absolutely not forced into overpaying Jones because of last season.
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In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
No, it is not fair. Most predicted the NYG would win 5 games or less in 2022.
They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.
We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.
The deserve a little support in my opinion.
To each their own.
Perhaps you accepted them last as the answer after one year of success. I chose not to because it did not really prove anything. The league is littered with one year success stories that did not amount to anything.
THis is also so accurate. One year NFL success stories almost mean nothing. It is the teams that compete year after year that earn ,longterm credit.
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In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:
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This is a long term situation
Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.
That's ridiculous. They had an opportunity to either draft a new QB, re-sign the QB already there, or go a different direction. They chose to re-sign Jones.
I agree with the decision and don't think he's the problem (the trenches is the bulk of the problem), but they don't get a pass simply because they chose to re-sign a QB they didn't draft.
They did very poorly in the 2022 draft with 11 picks 2 in top 10
Glowinski not a good signing2022
2023 off season focused on receivers and other than JMS ignored O line
Jones very under valued on this board
2023 draft better with JS having more of his people in place
1. It's NY...comes with the territory
2. Evan Neal and KT don't look promising and seem to have actually regressed from last year. You could blame that on coaching/the GM/ or both.
3. Offensive line is still absolutely horrid.
4. Our free agent signings have looked terrible and have been non-factors.
5. DJ just got a huge deal and is being looked at every game with a microscope.
6. The team just looks worse than last year. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see it. From the eye test, offense, defense, special teams, OC, DC, HC all look worse than last year with a "better" team on paper.
It's instinct to blame the GM or coaching. I am disappointed but also not naive. Like others in this thread mentioned, last year was an outlier. We are still very much in a rebuild. Let's see where we are next year or even the year after. That's when we will know where we stand. There is no way anything happens to Schoen or Daboll before then.
You make some pretty brutal posts yourself. Last year is a one year success story, until proven otherwise it means just that.
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In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:
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This is a long term situation
Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.
This is a weird take. If Schoen wasn't sold on DJ, he wouldn't have given him $160M. Schoen, like every GM, is going to be judged on his decisions, and obviously that includes his decision to sign Jones for 4 years
I also don't agree with this the "GM gets the opportunity to pick his QB". You have made this point many times about Reese. He destroyed the back end of Eli's career and the fronts went to crap under him. He has had six years to get another GM job and the fact that he has not is very telling. Maybe he just is not seen as a very good GM.
JS and BD made a decision to keep Jones. Way too early to discuss them picking the next QB if needed imv. If the team is progressing and QB seems to be the big issue I think most will be fine with them picking another QB.
That, of course, is false. What we are saying is that we are evaluating and will not be blinded by one year of success. Nobody I heard said that they should be fired or are on the hot seat. But, last year's draft class is coming into greater focus and that counts as well as the 9-7-1 record from last year. It is the people who do not look at all the evidence, good and bad, that are not worth discussing these things with. Just as silly as saying Schoen should be on the hot seat is saying that we should blindly trust him because of one NFL season. That is borderline crazy and goes against so much historical evidence of one year wonders in this league. A lot of Schoen's decision have been poor so far and that is also thrown into the evaluation pot (which I suspect won't have a defintive answer for another year or two).
Every move is going to be looked at for this regime.
Okerke free agent Lb has not looked good at all
Waller injury prone player who in 2 Primetime games has been a 0
An offensive line that is absolutely horrendous while doubling down on players like glowinski
2 top 7 picks for this regime in Evan neal who looks like he shouldn’t even be in the league and thibodeaux who is showing pre draft critics correct with lazy play and nothing more than trying to speed rush.
We made a big deal on trying to stop the run and get tougher against teams like the eagles and cowboys and through 3 games we are getting our teeth kicked in.
All the while we doubled down and re signed jones and I don’t have an issue with that but with no oline he looks like shit so now every talking head says the giants paid jones “elite money” and he can’t get the giants points.
It’s a tough schedule but fans have a right to be concerned with moves that schoen has made. The season will need to fully play out but I don’t see this team getting more than 4-5 wins
what does that really even mean?
This
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In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
No, it is not fair. Most predicted the NYG would win 5 games or less in 2022.
They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.
We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.
The deserve a little support in my opinion.
To each their own.
Perhaps you accepted them last as the answer after one year of success. I chose not to because it did not really prove anything. The league is littered with one year success stories that did not amount to anything.
Can we agree they exceeded expectations in 2022?
We are only 3 games into 2023 and have played 2 of the best rosters in the NFL. We know our starters did not play much in the preseason.
I am not suggesting you anoint them as the truth.
I am suggesting after 11-10-1 resume, knowing what they inherited, they deserve a little support.
For me, that playoff win, was unexpected and joyous. I have watched a decade of shit football. Last year was better. They earned another year of support IMHO.
2022 roster was not a good roster, but maybe it was not as bad as we thought. Maybe players got better, perhaps not having terrible coaches makes a significant difference.
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In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:
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This is a long term situation
Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.
Here's the problem though, if that worst case 5-12 and 7-10 scenario happens, Schoen and Daboll will be on a stressed timeline with the next QB. We know that rookie QBs don't generally win, so then we're hoping for a 5th year for things to turn around. I think Mara will want to be more patient this time around but I'm not sure 5 years will be on the table.
Schoen/Daboll used their 1st-year goodwill to commit to Jones; that's fine, but that also means they won't get much time to turn it around with the next QB if this goes south.
Last year's team improved as the season went on. Breaking down individual players, you would hope to see a jump in the second year of a regime. Young players selected from the last 2 drafts, growing into the core of what would eventually be, a contending team.
In every measurable sense, this team has regressed. Individual players have regressed, NO ONE is stepping forward, they also seem to be out coached through 3 weeks.
Those are not good signs that are acceptable.
As some have said, getting blown out by the top teams is not acceptable. Getting beat by them, at this point, is.
They were so far out played by Dallas and SF that it HAS to be concerning. Leashes are shorter and shorter in the league now, turnarounds, relatively quickly, happen fairly often.
If the arrow is pointing up at the end of this season, regardless of the win total, then everything is fine.
But if entire draft classes look like busts, and all 3 units on the team look like they can't get out of their own way and are non-competitive, than that HAS to be looked at as a major red flag. The clock IS ticking.
They made a major bet on the Jones / Barkley offense. And one thing I kept on saying in the offseason was that it was was unlikely that both of these players would stay healthy for the whole season and that made it pretty risky.
That came true pretty fast. I did not think Jones could succeed in this offense without Barkley and that RPO threat and that was one of my big reservations with the contract he got.
This year is house money for him. Next year is when he is on notice.
Personally, I wouldn't have hitched my career to Jones, but he did.
I think on paper it sounds like you have options if the team can part ways with Jones after two years. But nothing in that agreement says Daboll won't go with him.
Last year's team improved as the season went on. Breaking down individual players, you would hope to see a jump in the second year of a regime. Young players selected from the last 2 drafts, growing into the core of what would eventually be, a contending team.
In every measurable sense, this team has regressed. Individual players have regressed, NO ONE is stepping forward, they also seem to be out coached through 3 weeks.
Those are not good signs that are acceptable.
As some have said, getting blown out by the top teams is not acceptable. Getting beat by them, at this point, is.
They were so far out played by Dallas and SF that it HAS to be concerning. Leashes are shorter and shorter in the league now, turnarounds, relatively quickly, happen fairly often.
If the arrow is pointing up at the end of this season, regardless of the win total, then everything is fine.
But if entire draft classes look like busts, and all 3 units on the team look like they can't get out of their own way and are non-competitive, than that HAS to be looked at as a major red flag. The clock IS ticking.
Not sure I would say last year's team improved as the season went on. We started 6-1 and then only won 3 of our last 10
But, there does seem to be a poor reality on OL, which, so far, has not been settled. We've got AT, maybe a center (we've gone down the road of getting excited about rookies who show a little, then fail to deliver, too many times), and then little to nothing at guard, and a meh core piece in Neal.
We've got last, and this, years draftees, and this year's FA class in a rebuild of a poor team. That isn't enough to put us in the big league. Last year's showing made too many people think that Gettleman left us a somewhat halfway decent team which Daboll properly coached. There was some spark of truth to that, but not nearly as much as people delusionally thought.
People who are too irrational in trashing Daboll/Schoen are also irrational on Jones. They thought that because he got a decent (not top notch) deal, he was a top notch QB. He hasn't shown that, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but the reality is that he was the best of slim pickings to keep us anywhere near competitive for a couple years. IF we suck, maybe we'll be in range of being able to draft a true top notch QB. But, it was just our luck to be bad, and have high draft picks, in years that the college draft class was thin at QB. IF we suck, hopefully that luck will change. Maybe Jones will develop into a near top notch QB. It won't matter if the talent around him is meh, and if the OC/play calling is meh.
Bottom line is that too many people were so in awe of Daboll/Schoen that reality is a hard pill to swallow. But, jeez, ya gotta at least let the year play out before abandoning ship.
Interesting tidbit- we played the AFC East in both of those years.
This year is house money for him. Next year is when he is on notice.
Personally, I wouldn't have hitched my career to Jones, but he did.
I think on paper it sounds like you have options if the team can part ways with Jones after two years. But nothing in that agreement says Daboll won't go with him.
What about Schoen?
So, I believe things aren't so cut and dry. The organization met in the middle on Jones. I don't think anyone really hitched their wagon to him. They brought him back based on the progress shown while also hedging their bet a bit.
This is my guess: if the Giants miss the playoffs the next two years, Daboll gets fired and Mara plays a big hand with Schoen on who the replacement is.
This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
So you’re idea of rebuilding is letting go of your best offensive player (other than AT) and not acquiring new talent?
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What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?
This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
So you’re idea of rebuilding is letting go of your best offensive player (other than AT) and not acquiring new talent?
Barkley is better at his position than Jones.
No, I'd rather franchised him or tried to get him a Geno Smith deal. Paying Jones $40 million a year wss unnecessary, and in my view, unwise.
It's not so much confidence as thinking it's ridiculous that he will be GMing for his job in 2024.
I'm hoping he turns out great but he has yet to prove anything.
Dabs needs to review how training camp should be run next year. Do they need more live contact drills in full pads?? Should be reviewed for sure
This 10-day window really comes at the right time. A lot needs to be done in the period.
1. They were NOT ready for game 1 likely due to a "soft" pre-season however that soft pre-season got us to game 1 very healthy. Unfortunately, we lost Thomas and Barkley which has cost us as they are two of our top three offensive players (Jones the top one). Hard to in without your best on the field.
2. I'm concerned about whether Neal and Thibs will develop as the season moves into well above players. It is still early and Seattle will be telling.
3. Daboll has what it takes. You can just sense it, feel it about him. Schoen well we will see how this year's draft pans out but the early returns are good.
4. Giants lost last night yes but we went in on a short week with way less talent and competed. I think if the game was called perhaps more fairly it would have been closer but not a win for us.
Beat Seattle and we are 2-2. Beat Seattle and stay healthy doing it and all sorts of good things will pile up for us.
I'm guessing the thought was to go with Jones, build a team that isn't embarrassing, er, is competitive, and if Jones doesn't step up, worry about replacing him in a year or two, when options present themselves.
The goal of Giants central, leaving the ring aside, is to have a competitive team for a few years. Going Cinderella/golden is a nice dream, but overall, the Maras want to get the Giants out of the basement. We've sucked, and sucked and sucked. Look at how elated the fans were to just make the playoffs. The one playoff win was gravy. That was the super bowl for a perennial cellar dweller. Mara wants that level to become the baseline. Daboll doesn't have to go far in the playoffs. He just has to get the Giants into competition for making the playoffs.
Again, what alternative was better than Jones, who looked to be a guy who could deliver mediocrity, but maybe more? The pickings were slim. The contract isn't onerous. The wagon was hitched to Jones, but there wasn't anyone else better to hitch up.
The problem is that Jones is going to, baseline, get us around .500. Not good enough to go far. Too good to put us in position to grab the latest hot shot draft QB. But, we've sucked so long, sucking longer would be excruciating.
I'm guessing the thought was to go with Jones, build a team that isn't embarrassing, er, is competitive, and if Jones doesn't step up, worry about replacing him in a year or two, when options present themselves.
The goal of Giants central, leaving the ring aside, is to have a competitive team for a few years. Going Cinderella/golden is a nice dream, but overall, the Maras want to get the Giants out of the basement. We've sucked, and sucked and sucked. Look at how elated the fans were to just make the playoffs. The one playoff win was gravy. That was the super bowl for a perennial cellar dweller. Mara wants that level to become the baseline. Daboll doesn't have to go far in the playoffs. He just has to get the Giants into competition for making the playoffs.
Again, what alternative was better than Jones, who looked to be a guy who could deliver mediocrity, but maybe more? The pickings were slim. The contract isn't onerous. The wagon was hitched to Jones, but there wasn't anyone else better to hitch up.
The problem is that Jones is going to, baseline, get us around .500. Not good enough to go far. Too good to put us in position to grab the latest hot shot draft QB. But, we've sucked so long, sucking longer would be excruciating.
Good post. To put it simply, I think this regime views Jones as Alex Smith in KC. He's the guy until he isn't the guy and then they'll pounce for the guy to take them to the next level.
I really don't think anyone hitched their wagon to Jones.
I'm not suggesting we have reached a point where we should break the glass due to an emergency. But we should certainly start to become aware where those devices are...
Do you really think Daboll is still the head coach in a situation where the Giants cut or trade Daniel Jones after next year?
If they pull out from Jones after 23/24 that means it's turned into a wreck and they are rebooting. If things get that bad, Daboll is gone.
Reid ran with Smith for 5 winning seasons and 4 playoffs births. They won 50+ games in that stretch. He hitched his wagon for a nice run and upgraded when the opportunity presented itself.
If Jones wins 40+ games over the next 4 years and gets to the tournament 3 times, and they upgrade, that's cool.
Do you really think Daboll is still the head coach in a situation where the Giants cut or trade Daniel Jones after next year?
If they pull out from Jones after 23/24 that means it's turned into a wreck and they are rebooting. If things get that bad, Daboll is gone.
Reid ran with Smith for 5 winning seasons and 4 playoffs births. They won 50+ games in that stretch. He hitched his wagon for a nice run and upgraded when the opportunity presented itself.
If Jones wins 40+ games over the next 4 years and gets to the tournament 3 times, and they upgrade, that's cool.
I think they could survive two five to seven win seasons and get a chance with 'their' QB--I'm just not sure if they should.
I just think people got way ahead of themselves in their faith with Schoen, who is obviously an upgrade over the moron Gettleman.
Do you really think Daboll is still the head coach in a situation where the Giants cut or trade Daniel Jones after next year?
If they pull out from Jones after 23/24 that means it's turned into a wreck and they are rebooting. If things get that bad, Daboll is gone.
Reid ran with Smith for 5 winning seasons and 4 playoffs births. They won 50+ games in that stretch. He hitched his wagon for a nice run and upgraded when the opportunity presented itself.
If Jones wins 40+ games over the next 4 years and gets to the tournament 3 times, and they upgrade, that's cool.
Jones certainly isn't surviving another HC change but I believe BD would survive a QB change.
JS gets at least 4 years
2 full offseasons, drafts, trading periods and FA periods and frankly they're not getting much contribution from any move he has made.
I think if there isn't significant improvement with offensive production against the better teams, Schoen/Daboll will look heavily into QB in the 23/24 drafts.
One good year isn't enough to tell if they're right for the job, but two bad weeks means it's fair to start questioning them?
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
One good year isn't enough to tell if they're right for the job, but two bad weeks means it's fair to start questioning them?
Such a great post BlackLight. You articulated that better than I could have.
Obviously if Jones does well, everyone is happy.
A nightmare scenario is if Jones does well enough to have lousy draft position and it costs a fortune to move up to get a hot prospect.
We've been lousy for so long that mediocre records will keep us happy for a couple of years. We've been lousy for so long that tanking a season will be disastrous for the fan support/relations. But if Mara signs off on a tank, Daboll/Schoen will survive it. Intentional losing is acceptable to management. Try to win and failing is not.
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
One good year isn't enough to tell if they're right for the job, but two bad weeks means it's fair to start questioning them?
I never jumped on the bandwagon, essentially I have been questioning them from the start. Last year was one year of results.
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In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
One good year isn't enough to tell if they're right for the job, but two bad weeks means it's fair to start questioning them?
I never jumped on the bandwagon, essentially I have been questioning them from the start. Last year was one year of results.
You called last year's playoff run "awesome." There were only three outcomes to last season that would've been objectively better than the one we eventually got, so I think it's now fair to question just what would meet your definition of success.
They did very poorly in the 2022 draft with 11 picks 2 in top 10
Glowinski not a good signing2022
2023 off season focused on receivers and other than JMS ignored O line
Jones very under valued on this board
2023 draft better with JS having more of his people in place
Not only not unfair, but, adding in no free agency results, plainly disappointing. Do they know what they are doing?
Geeez....
And yet based on the play to date i do not see a better team.
People say on paper we are better. That is pointless. Its how you play on the field that counts.
We arent getting it done on the field.
This team was not ready to start the season. That is on Dabol. Soft preseason soft start to season.
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In comment 16218167 BlackLight said:
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In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:
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I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
One good year isn't enough to tell if they're right for the job, but two bad weeks means it's fair to start questioning them?
I never jumped on the bandwagon, essentially I have been questioning them from the start. Last year was one year of results.
You called last year's playoff run "awesome." There were only three outcomes to last season that would've been objectively better than the one we eventually got, so I think it's now fair to question just what would meet your definition of success.
They had a successful first season, one season. That is all it took for you to be onboard, I am holding out a bit longer.
Throwing the Ball
Stopping the run
Stopping the pass
Which one can you say we are good at? Hell, even average at?
How much success would have been enough after only one season for me? Well that depends, I really do not like using a single season to sign up for the future.
It is not like I am saying the Giants should move on from them which would be quite hasty. Some fans just want to see more before we are confident in what we have. The good thing is that since I am just a fan I don’t have to worry about making a decision like the owner of the team would. I can afford to wait longer before I decide even when other fans think that is a brutal decision way of thinking.
He acknowledged the Waller trade was a hedge against the lack of #1 WRs in free agency and draft (by the late first round) - I suspect they’ll pounce on one this offseason. A #1 WR (Higgins? Evans? Draft?), edge rusher and OL will go a long way toward raising the ceiling of this team.
At this rate - 5 wins for the season should be the goal.
I don't disagree with your point but their starting QB suffered a season ending injury in week three of the second year (when they went 4-12).
Conversely, the Giants held onto Gettleman for four whole years when I thought it was pretty clear from the get go he was a disaster.
Each situation is different. Daboll had a masterful first year, I'm very high on him. I think Schoen is much more TBD--partly due to the GM needing more time to marinate, partly due to him being cap constrained the past couple off-seasons. I think the jury will remain out on him for at least another year or two.
Great post. A lot of people forget how poor some of those Shanahan/Lynch seasons were.