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I can't believe people are bailing on Schoen & Daboll

Sean : 9/22/2023 11:22 am
I guess nothing on BBI should really surprise me. This is a team that overachieved by a wide margin last year and *won* a playoff game. This regime has an 11-10-1 overall record despite many people saying the franchise was years away from even being competitive after 2021. And here we are at 1-2, and we have fans already talking about how Schoen should only get one more off-season to fix it. Someone on the post game thread said if things don't turn around they wouldn't even give Schoen and Daboll 2024.

We really do have some idiots in this fanbase. People here wanting to penalize this regime for overachieving last season. Most people expected regression this season after a lot of one score wins. Vegas had the win total at 7.5.

So, Gettleman gets 4 seasons, but Schoen is lucky to get 3? Schoen hasn't even had the opportunity to draft his own QB (something Reese never got either), but somehow Gettleman gets that luxury?

I just couldn't believe the stuff I was reading last night. Who would want to come here if this franchise reset AGAIN despite winning a playoff game last year when no one expected it.

Everyone needs to relax. The Giants are 1-2 and the season is in its infancy stages.
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who is bailing on them?  
46and2Blue : 9/22/2023 11:23 am : link
I haven't read much criticism or either.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/22/2023 11:24 am : link
People bailing are idiots & not worth engaging with.
RE: who is bailing on them?  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:25 am : link
In comment 16217555 46and2Blue said:
Quote:
I haven't read much criticism or either.

A lot of comments in the game thread and post game thread.
......  
BrettNYG10 : 9/22/2023 11:25 am : link
What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?

This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.
.  
ChrisRick : 9/22/2023 11:26 am : link
I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
RE: RE: who is bailing on them?  
46and2Blue : 9/22/2023 11:27 am : link
In comment 16217561 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217555 46and2Blue said:


Quote:


I haven't read much criticism or either.


A lot of comments in the game thread and post game thread.


Sorry I meant credible knowledgeable, in-depth fact driven criticism of them.
Couldn’t agree more  
AZ Blue : 9/22/2023 11:28 am : link
I was explaining to my son last night to remember that last season was an unexpected bonus and that they’re still in a rebuild.

There’s no way Mara would get of this regime so quickly either. Even they deserved to go, which they don’t.
RE: ......  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:29 am : link
In comment 16217562 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?

This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.

They were forced into it a bit by last seasons improbable success. So, they made the most of it. $160M is a fake number, the Giants can get off Jones contract after next season. Waller was as much of the Raiders selling as it was the Giants buying. We are seeing why now.
RE: RE: who is bailing on them?  
The_Boss : 9/22/2023 11:29 am : link
In comment 16217561 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217555 46and2Blue said:


Quote:


I haven't read much criticism or either.


A lot of comments in the game thread and post game thread.


That’s all based on emotion. I will say that it’s fair to criticize the duo if this gets to 5 wins or less. I think 2024 becomes a big year then for everyone in the organization.
I'm not bailing  
Greg from LI : 9/22/2023 11:29 am : link
But the to-date weak showing by the 2022 draft class is concerning.
It's a young roster and was expected  
larryflower37 : 9/22/2023 11:29 am : link
At the time they took over to be a minimum of a 3 year rebuild.
They put unreal expectations with the playoffs last year. I do understand why people are concerned because of the play of the last 2 draft classes.
You could say Neal, Thibs, Robinson etc. Have under performed so far.
It's funny talking to Niner fans they were surprised how well the Giants played last night and the game plan was solid but didn't have the talent to execute.
Who is bailing?  
Sammo85 : 9/22/2023 11:30 am : link
I don't see anyone calling for them to be fired.

Are we not allowed to say we are concerned or worried with some of the decisions playing out and strategies?

I've stated I'm a bit concerned with what the front office is seeing or doing with some of these player evaluations so far, but I'm not calling for Schoen to be fired.

They are going nowhere  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/22/2023 11:30 am : link
This is a long term situation
If we can sing their praises for last year  
JT039 : 9/22/2023 11:31 am : link
We can certainly question why we have been dominated this year.
It's not the losses that suck  
anon837 : 9/22/2023 11:32 am : link
It's how they are losing. Anybody who follows this team with their biases left at the door knew they wouldn't beat Dallas or SF. But they were embarrassed Week 1 and punked in Week 3. Good teams lose games but this year so far is disturbing. I was looking for this team to be competitive, not so much contending. Yes, it's kind of early to hurt ourselves falling off the bandwagon. But it's more than reasonable to be concerned about this team from top to bottom.
RE: They are going nowhere  
The_Boss : 9/22/2023 11:32 am : link
In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
This is a long term situation


Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?
RE: If we can sing their praises for last year  
The_Boss : 9/22/2023 11:33 am : link
In comment 16217590 JT039 said:
Quote:
We can certainly question why we have been dominated this year.


They were never going to look dominant vs Dallas, SF, and later in the year Philly.
Really can't believe it?  
HBart : 9/22/2023 11:33 am : link
Some on BBI would bail on Parcells or Bellicek after a loss.
RE: .  
Thegratefulhead : 9/22/2023 11:33 am : link
In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.
No, it is not fair. Most predicted the NYG would win 5 games or less in 2022.

They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.

We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.

The deserve a little support in my opinion.

To each their own.

Also Schoen has chosen his QB  
Sammo85 : 9/22/2023 11:33 am : link
He made the decisions two offseasons in a row on Jones and doubled down with a commitment for him to be the QB.

RE: RE: They are going nowhere  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16217592 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


This is a long term situation



Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?

Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.
yea this seems like a pretty strawman'ny thread  
Eric on Li : 9/22/2023 11:34 am : link
has anyone made a suggestion to move on from either one?

stating that some of their moves right now don't look so good isn't bailing, it's just reality. some are bailing on the season maybe but i haven't seen anyone bail on either of them.

and most of those bailing on the season seem like the ones who are just back patting their priors, so in other words they arent really bailing bc they werent that high on the team in the first place - which they may have been correct about.
RE: RE: If we can sing their praises for last year  
JT039 : 9/22/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16217594 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 16217590 JT039 said:


Quote:


We can certainly question why we have been dominated this year.



They were never going to look dominant vs Dallas, SF, and later in the year Philly.


Who said dominant? How about at least respectable.
This Schoen and Daboll  
Essex : 9/22/2023 11:34 am : link
as a monolith together is so ridiculously silly. They are different people who do their jobs differently. Daboll has earned some credits from last season in coaching way above the talent level.

Schoen deserves credit for hiring Daboll. And nobody is bailing on him, but we are keeping score. And the early returns for Thibs and Neal and Okreke and Campbell are less than stellar. So, yeah, we are allowed to keep score and Schoen has to start hitting more, especially with top round picks.
RE: Also Schoen has chosen his QB  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:35 am : link
In comment 16217598 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
He made the decisions two offseasons in a row on Jones and doubled down with a commitment for him to be the QB.

Not really. Part of that long negotiation was to ensure they had an escape hatch which they do after 2024.
RE: RE: RE: They are going nowhere  
Sammo85 : 9/22/2023 11:35 am : link
In comment 16217601 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217592 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


This is a long term situation



Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?


Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.



If Giants flounder this year and next - they are out the door with Jones too.
RE: RE: .  
ChrisRick : 9/22/2023 11:36 am : link
In comment 16217596 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.

No, it is not fair. Most predicted the NYG would win 5 games or less in 2022.

They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.

We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.

The deserve a little support in my opinion.

To each their own.


Perhaps you accepted them last as the answer after one year of success. I chose not to because it did not really prove anything. The league is littered with one year success stories that did not amount to anything.
No bailing here....  
WeekendLife56 : 9/22/2023 11:36 am : link
BUT if we can't block people it's gunna be a long year. After we figure out how to block people then we can tackle issues like thibs, pass rush, 3rd down, ext....
RE: RE: ......  
KingBlue : 9/22/2023 11:36 am : link
In comment 16217574 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217562 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?

This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.


They were forced into it a bit by last seasons improbable success. So, they made the most of it. $160M is a fake number, the Giants can get off Jones contract after next season. Waller was as much of the Raiders selling as it was the Giants buying. We are seeing why now.


I can't believe some people are bailing on Waller so soon.
RE: If we can sing their praises for last year  
John In CO : 9/22/2023 11:37 am : link
In comment 16217590 JT039 said:
Quote:
We can certainly question why we have been dominated this year.


Why have they been dominated? Because they have already played two of the top 5 teams in the league (yeah I know we hate Dallas and struggle to admit when they are good....they are good), one of them with 3 days rest! I maintain the first half of the AZ game was PTSD from the Dallas game! Simply put, the Giants are not nearly at the level of a top 5 team. Not even close. A long way to go in this rebuild.
Mabey not tackle em....  
WeekendLife56 : 9/22/2023 11:37 am : link
At least try to strip them down ya know
Sammo85  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:38 am : link
So, Gettleman gets a longer leash? Got it.
Anyone bailing is an idiot.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/22/2023 11:38 am : link
But it is fair to be concerned about Neal and Thibs. It's fair to be concerned about the OL and DL. And it's fair to question Wink's ability to get the best out of this defense thus far.
RE: RE: ......  
BrettNYG10 : 9/22/2023 11:38 am : link
In comment 16217574 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217562 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


What was the point of signing Jones to a $160 million deal and trading for Waller if we were not going to contend?

This was my whole issue with the off-season. It felt like an attempt to compete for a playoff spot again--not to compete for a title.


They were forced into it a bit by last seasons improbable success. So, they made the most of it. $160M is a fake number, the Giants can get off Jones contract after next season. Waller was as much of the Raiders selling as it was the Giants buying. We are seeing why now.


They were absolutely not forced into overpaying Jones because of last season.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Essex : 9/22/2023 11:38 am : link
In comment 16217609 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
In comment 16217596 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 16217563 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


I am not bailing but it is fair to question if they are the right ones for the job. The playoff run last year was awesome, but it was one year.

No, it is not fair. Most predicted the NYG would win 5 games or less in 2022.

They won a playoff game on the road against a 13-4 team.

We are 1-2 losing to two of the best teams in the NFL.

The deserve a little support in my opinion.

To each their own.




Perhaps you accepted them last as the answer after one year of success. I chose not to because it did not really prove anything. The league is littered with one year success stories that did not amount to anything.


THis is also so accurate. One year NFL success stories almost mean nothing. It is the teams that compete year after year that earn ,longterm credit.
RE: RE: RE: They are going nowhere  
KDavies : 9/22/2023 11:40 am : link
In comment 16217601 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217592 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


This is a long term situation



Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?


Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.


That's ridiculous. They had an opportunity to either draft a new QB, re-sign the QB already there, or go a different direction. They chose to re-sign Jones.

I agree with the decision and don't think he's the problem (the trenches is the bulk of the problem), but they don't get a pass simply because they chose to re-sign a QB they didn't draft.
Fair critique  
Hilary : 9/22/2023 11:40 am : link
It is not unfair to complain
They did very poorly in the 2022 draft with 11 picks 2 in top 10
Glowinski not a good signing2022
2023 off season focused on receivers and other than JMS ignored O line

Jones very under valued on this board
2023 draft better with JS having more of his people in place
Some of you are brutal  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:41 am : link
At 1-2 already talking about how it's a one year success story. Already talking about another franchise reset. No wonder this team never gets out of its own way. Always hitting the reset button.
KDavies  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:42 am : link
It was a 2 year deal. They did what they had to do off of improbable success.
I think there are a ton of  
HoodieGelo : 9/22/2023 11:43 am : link
reasons people want their heads.
1. It's NY...comes with the territory
2. Evan Neal and KT don't look promising and seem to have actually regressed from last year. You could blame that on coaching/the GM/ or both.
3. Offensive line is still absolutely horrid.
4. Our free agent signings have looked terrible and have been non-factors.
5. DJ just got a huge deal and is being looked at every game with a microscope.
6. The team just looks worse than last year. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see it. From the eye test, offense, defense, special teams, OC, DC, HC all look worse than last year with a "better" team on paper.

It's instinct to blame the GM or coaching. I am disappointed but also not naive. Like others in this thread mentioned, last year was an outlier. We are still very much in a rebuild. Let's see where we are next year or even the year after. That's when we will know where we stand. There is no way anything happens to Schoen or Daboll before then.
RE: Some of you are brutal  
ChrisRick : 9/22/2023 11:43 am : link
In comment 16217638 Sean said:
Quote:
At 1-2 already talking about how it's a one year success story. Already talking about another franchise reset. No wonder this team never gets out of its own way. Always hitting the reset button.


You make some pretty brutal posts yourself. Last year is a one year success story, until proven otherwise it means just that.
RE: RE: RE: They are going nowhere  
DaveInTampa : 9/22/2023 11:44 am : link
In comment 16217601 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16217592 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 16217585 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


This is a long term situation



Would you feel the same if we go 5-12 this year and follow it up with 7-10 next year?


Schoen and Daboll get to draft their own QB. Clock starts then for me.


This is a weird take. If Schoen wasn't sold on DJ, he wouldn't have given him $160M. Schoen, like every GM, is going to be judged on his decisions, and obviously that includes his decision to sign Jones for 4 years
Not surprising  
Br00klyn : 9/22/2023 11:45 am : link
A lot of fans are week to week. Win and everything is great, lose and everyone needs to go. If they beat Seattle next week the positivity will be out in full force. If they lose next week….avoid this place for a couple days
Dave in Tampa  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:45 am : link
Again, it's not $160M. It's a 2 year deal for $82M. The Giants have an out after next season. You think that's a coincidence?
I don't see people bailing  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/22/2023 11:51 am : link
though some people are raising some concerns with both that have some merit.

I also don't agree with this the "GM gets the opportunity to pick his QB". You have made this point many times about Reese. He destroyed the back end of Eli's career and the fronts went to crap under him. He has had six years to get another GM job and the fact that he has not is very telling. Maybe he just is not seen as a very good GM.

JS and BD made a decision to keep Jones. Way too early to discuss them picking the next QB if needed imv. If the team is progressing and QB seems to be the big issue I think most will be fine with them picking another QB.
To me, these guys get more rope than Gettleman did  
The_Boss : 9/22/2023 11:52 am : link
That being said, Schoen has to hit on his picks in the draft. I shit on Dave for his drafting because I never saw any of his picks being among the 5 best at his position and that simply wasn’t true: Thomas and Barkley. At some point the talent level has to jump appreciably. So far his first 2 drafts don’t inspire much confidence.
RE: Some of you are brutal  
Essex : 9/22/2023 11:55 am : link
In comment 16217638 Sean said:
Quote:
At 1-2 already talking about how it's a one year success story. Already talking about another franchise reset. No wonder this team never gets out of its own way. Always hitting the reset button.


That, of course, is false. What we are saying is that we are evaluating and will not be blinded by one year of success. Nobody I heard said that they should be fired or are on the hot seat. But, last year's draft class is coming into greater focus and that counts as well as the 9-7-1 record from last year. It is the people who do not look at all the evidence, good and bad, that are not worth discussing these things with. Just as silly as saying Schoen should be on the hot seat is saying that we should blindly trust him because of one NFL season. That is borderline crazy and goes against so much historical evidence of one year wonders in this league. A lot of Schoen's decision have been poor so far and that is also thrown into the evaluation pot (which I suspect won't have a defintive answer for another year or two).
OL  
DaveInTampa : 9/22/2023 11:57 am : link
I agree with most here that it is way too early to bail, but it should be noted that 4/5 of our starting OL last night were guys brought in by Schoen (and the other, lemieux, was starting only because Glowinski, another Schoen acquisition, has been so bad).
People are reactionary  
Knickstape : 9/22/2023 11:57 am : link
But for everyone who loved what they did last year need to accept that some people are gonna shit on what they do this year.

Every move is going to be looked at for this regime.

Okerke free agent Lb has not looked good at all
Waller injury prone player who in 2 Primetime games has been a 0
An offensive line that is absolutely horrendous while doubling down on players like glowinski
2 top 7 picks for this regime in Evan neal who looks like he shouldn’t even be in the league and thibodeaux who is showing pre draft critics correct with lazy play and nothing more than trying to speed rush.

We made a big deal on trying to stop the run and get tougher against teams like the eagles and cowboys and through 3 games we are getting our teeth kicked in.

All the while we doubled down and re signed jones and I don’t have an issue with that but with no oline he looks like shit so now every talking head says the giants paid jones “elite money” and he can’t get the giants points.


It’s a tough schedule but fans have a right to be concerned with moves that schoen has made. The season will need to fully play out but I don’t see this team getting more than 4-5 wins
Essex. Fair post.  
Sean : 9/22/2023 11:59 am : link
All I'm saying is the total body of work is 11-10-1 with a playoff win. Much better than expected. After 2024, we'll have a much better idea of where things stand.
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