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Falato points out missed opportunity

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 3:50 pm
This is what pressure on the pocket will do.

Nick Falato
@nickfalato
·
4h
A missed opportunity in the 2nd quarter

The #Giants had success against AZ with 12 personal dbl-Y speed stack motion for Slayton...49ers both bite on the inside route, leaving Hyatt alone

Unfortunately, the throw wasn't made as Javon Kinlaw bullied his way into the pocket

(See video Hyatt wide open)
https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705233969900580974 - ( New Window )
Crushing block here  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 3:51 pm : link
Nick Falato
@nickfalato

It deserved its own post

A physical finish from Lemieux
https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705218156078219270 - ( New Window )
I'm not sure  
gfinop : 9/22/2023 3:53 pm : link
Eric. Does it look like there is enough room before the side line to connect on the throw?
for those who want to focus just on the OL  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 3:58 pm : link
you can really see the match-ups here...

Nick Falato
@nickfalato
Giants offensive line snaps from Thursday's loss to SF


https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705185258726121554 - ( New Window )
RE: I'm not sure  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 3:59 pm : link
In comment 16218028 gfinop said:
Quote:
Eric. Does it look like there is enough room before the side line to connect on the throw?


There is plenty of room.
Lemieux  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/22/2023 4:02 pm : link
Is awful in pass protection. He was a huge liability all night.
One shake of that defender bearing down on him and  
OBJ_AllDay : 9/22/2023 4:03 pm : link
Even without a throw, he has a lot of green grass in front of him to take off. This should have been a big play.
RE: One shake of that defender bearing down on him and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 4:06 pm : link
In comment 16218043 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
Even without a throw, he has a lot of green grass in front of him to take off. This should have been a big play.


That's not on the QB. That's on the OL.
And people  
ElitoCanton : 9/22/2023 4:07 pm : link
are complaining about play calling. This place is nuts.
That OL has been and is pure trash going on 12 yrs now -BUT  
TheBlueprintNC : 9/22/2023 4:08 pm : link
Thats not the story of this season.. Mr.Softee D is now joining it.. D is not physical enough to go up against the stronger teams... Wink has to figure it out.. Cmon multiple 3rd and forevers and cant get off the field?! Yes I understand 9rs and Boys are upper echelon but a couple of stops by D after the Giants Offense scored. it was a 1 score game and had multiple shots couldnt get it done.. got out-physicaled yet again. Can they make a freaking tackle?
SF put ona tackling clinic last night  
TheBlueprintNC : 9/22/2023 4:17 pm : link
what was YAC NY vs SF? How many missed tackles?
Definitely a missed opportunity which I saw live,  
NorcalNYG : 9/22/2023 4:17 pm : link
But that would have been an unreal throw scrambling quickly to his left and throwing that 25 yds downfield
RE: Crushing block here  
bluefin : 9/22/2023 4:25 pm : link
In comment 16218024 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Nick Falato
@nickfalato

It deserved its own post

A physical finish from Lemieux https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705218156078219270 - ( New Window )

no no no, that didn’t happen, I heard Lemieux sucks and he stinks…put someone else at LG next game so JMS doesn’t develop chemistry with anyone.
Jones doesn't have the arm...  
bw in dc : 9/22/2023 4:33 pm : link
talent to make that throw when Hyatt is open at first. That's a throw for a guy like Allen.

But I think the bigger issue is when Jones scrambles right, Hyatt doesn't come back to the ball. He keeps running deep. If he stops and works his way back to the ball, Jones has a good chance to get the ball out there...
Is it really a missed opportunity  
BillT : 9/22/2023 4:34 pm : link
If there was no chance for the play to happen. Isn’t every failed play a missed opportunity.
RE: Jones doesn't have the arm...  
NorcalNYG : 9/22/2023 4:35 pm : link
In comment 16218072 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talent to make that throw when Hyatt is open at first. That's a throw for a guy like Allen.

But I think the bigger issue is when Jones scrambles right, Hyatt doesn't come back to the ball. He keeps running deep. If he stops and works his way back to the ball, Jones has a good chance to get the ball out there...


That's a good point. I'm not sure it's completely on arm talent tho, jones is shell shocked with turnover issues and sometimes seems gunshy to make shots like that. I believe he could make the throw, but needs the confidence and fearlessness to grow for it.
RE: Is it really a missed opportunity  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 4:36 pm : link
In comment 16218073 BillT said:
Quote:
If there was no chance for the play to happen. Isn’t every failed play a missed opportunity.


Really, we're going to have argument over semantics?

If the OL blocks the play, it's a touchdown.
RE: RE: Is it really a missed opportunity  
BillT : 9/22/2023 4:41 pm : link
In comment 16218076 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16218073 BillT said:


Quote:


If there was no chance for the play to happen. Isn’t every failed play a missed opportunity.



Really, we're going to have argument over semantics?

If the OL blocks the play, it's a touchdown.

It’s not semantics. It’s a failed play. Lots of plays would have been successful if the OL blocked better. It’s not the only one.
RE: RE: Jones doesn't have the arm...  
bw in dc : 9/22/2023 4:43 pm : link
In comment 16218074 NorcalNYG said:
Quote:
In comment 16218072 bw in dc said:


Quote:


talent to make that throw when Hyatt is open at first. That's a throw for a guy like Allen.

But I think the bigger issue is when Jones scrambles right, Hyatt doesn't come back to the ball. He keeps running deep. If he stops and works his way back to the ball, Jones has a good chance to get the ball out there...



That's a good point. I'm not sure it's completely on arm talent tho, jones is shell shocked with turnover issues and sometimes seems gunshy to make shots like that. I believe he could make the throw, but needs the confidence and fearlessness to grow for it.


I meant to say when Jones scrambles left. But I wasn't trying to diminish Jones for not trying to make that throw when Hyatt popped open. That's just a throw that very few can/could make with a high chance of success. Those throws are reserved for aliens like Elway, Allen, Rodgers, etc.

Again, once Jones does start to escape to the left, however, he could very likely stick it out there if Hyatt comes back to the ball. I see that as a rookie mistake.

So excited about Hyatt.  
bceagle05 : 9/22/2023 4:44 pm : link
I hope we land a legit #1 in the draft or free agency (Higgins/Evans) to pair with him, Waller and (hopefully) Saquon.
Thanks Eric  
HBart : 9/22/2023 4:54 pm : link
Falato is excellent.
I don't know  
HomerJones45 : 9/22/2023 5:01 pm : link
A Rodgers or a Mahomes maybe throws the ball when Hyatt is at the 35? The defender is there but has his back to Hyatt and is running in the other direction.
RE: RE: RE: Is it really a missed opportunity  
HBart : 9/22/2023 5:07 pm : link
In comment 16218080 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 16218076 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16218073 BillT said:


Quote:


If there was no chance for the play to happen. Isn’t every failed play a missed opportunity.



Really, we're going to have argument over semantics?

If the OL blocks the play, it's a touchdown.


It’s not semantics. It’s a failed play. Lots of plays would have been successful if the OL blocked better. It’s not the only one.

No it's not the only one Bill. But it's the one that has an obvious root cause, likely took away a TD and a huge momentum swing, and would have stretched the D for later dividends.
RE: I don't know  
ajr2456 : 9/22/2023 5:09 pm : link
In comment 16218097 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
A Rodgers or a Mahomes maybe throws the ball when Hyatt is at the 35? The defender is there but has his back to Hyatt and is running in the other direction.


Agreed.
Watching that Falato post of every OL snap  
Now Mike in MD : 9/22/2023 5:11 pm : link
it actually looked like Neal was half decent against a DPOTY level guy. Maybe I was just expecting "Dallas Neal" so my expectations were incredinly low, but the much bigger problem was the left side and McKethan.
Three  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2023 9:06 pm : link
Giants trying to block Bosa.
https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705316092888195492 - ( New Window )
RE: for those who want to focus just on the OL  
NorcalNYG : 9/22/2023 10:21 pm : link
In comment 16218034 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you can really see the match-ups here...

Nick Falato
@nickfalato
Giants offensive line snaps from Thursday's loss to SF
https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705185258726121554 - ( New Window )


Well Neal looks like he's improving, hopefully his ankle is ok cuz he has the rest of this season to prove he can grow into a serviceable NFL OT
RE: Crushing block here  
mfjmfj : 9/23/2023 6:28 am : link
In comment 16218024 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Nick Falato
@nickfalato

It deserved its own post

A physical finish from Lemieux https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705218156078219270 - ( New Window )


What is distressing on this play is the total whiff by Ezedu. If he makes that block there, which should be easy, there is a big hole.
RE: for those who want to focus just on the OL  
mfjmfj : 9/23/2023 6:35 am : link
In comment 16218034 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you can really see the match-ups here...

Nick Falato
@nickfalato
Giants offensive line snaps from Thursday's loss to SF
https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705185258726121554 - ( New Window )


Most important play of the game, I think, was the Bosa sack/tackle of DJ at the 2 yard line. Not sure if this is player error or scheme error. If that is Bellinger's block and he is in the right spot (i.e. split out 2 yards) it is coaching error - bad scheme or bad call. It is possible that Neal is suppose to check or chip before crashing down in which case his mistake. It is also possible Bellinger is supposed to be lined up close to Neal (still a really hard block) in which case it is his fault. My guess is bad scheme or call but who knows.

Neal was getting a lot of help during the game. More than our guard playing left tackle. I thought he was better, but it just might be the help.
headline news  
fkap : 9/23/2023 8:03 am : link
bad OL play disrupts QB/Receiver connections; dog bites man; Sun comes up in the east.

News at 11
RE: headline news  
HBart : 9/23/2023 8:21 am : link
In comment 16218342 fkap said:
Quote:
bad OL play disrupts QB/Receiver connections; dog bites man; Sun comes up in the east.

News at 11

More breaking news:
- great defenses challenge even the best offensive lines
- to become NFL players, young prospects need to play and will make more mistakes and get beaten more than vets when they do
What’s most interesting to me is that the Giants got whipped by  
Spider56 : 9/23/2023 8:35 am : link
2 teams with excellent DCs. Quinn and Wilks are both excellent and will hopefully both be Head coaches next year. These guys teach fundamentals, have great schemes and know how to exploit another teams’ weaknesses. They get everything possible from the (considerable) talent they have. Conversely, the pass happy offenses may have passed old Wink by.
WTF is Ezeudu  
mittenedman : 9/23/2023 8:52 am : link
doing on that triple team?

That’s the kind of weird stuff the Giants OL has been doing for a decade that makes no sense. He’s got the inside, he’s right fucking there, and he doesnt even lay a glove on the guy.

This is why good defenses just lick their chops facing the Giants. The “get right” game. We’ve made a lot of DL a lot of $$$.
You know what  
mittenedman : 9/23/2023 8:53 am : link
Thibs and Leonard Williams need?

A game against the Giants OL. That’s why they looked good in practice.
RE: You know what  
HBart : 9/23/2023 9:02 am : link
In comment 16218361 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Thibs and Leonard Williams need?

A game against the Giants OL. That’s why they looked good in practice.

Thibs often takes a circuitous route to the QB, arcing out to presumably contain a rollout or stutter stepping before committing to the rush. No idea if he's doing his job as asked or -- if not -- why.
No idea  
bluewave : 9/23/2023 9:04 am : link
how people are blaming Jones for this loss. Holy SHIT!!!
RE: RE: You know what  
mittenedman : 9/23/2023 10:26 am : link
In comment 16218365 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16218361 mittenedman said:


Quote:


Thibs and Leonard Williams need?

A game against the Giants OL. That’s why they looked good in practice.


Thibs often takes a circuitous route to the QB, arcing out to presumably contain a rollout or stutter stepping before committing to the rush. No idea if he's doing his job as asked or -- if not -- why.


That's a losing proposition for me either way.

*If he's not being coached to do that, he's just a horrific pass rusher.

*If he IS being coached to do that, we didn't need to draft a guy #5 overall to be a setup man. A random X in the X's and O's. Wink schemes his pass rush. He asks much more of his DBs, and where he needs the talent.

From my sofa, the 2nd bullet point rings more true. This is why Wink wanted the CB over the pass rusher, which he openly admitted before the draft. This why Judon and Z'Darius Smith's sack numbers jumped after BAL. It's looking more and more like there wasn't much logic picking Thibs at 5.
Judon was a pro-bowler under Wink too  
HBart : 9/23/2023 10:38 am : link
We won't really be able to judge KT unless another edge rusher steps up. Ward's too slow. With the current roster construction, some combination of Azeez/Basham/Simmons.
RE: No idea  
GiantGrit : 9/23/2023 11:56 am : link
In comment 16218366 bluewave said:
Quote:
how people are blaming Jones for this loss. Holy SHIT!!!


People following narratives.
RE: Judon was a pro-bowler under Wink too  
SGMen : 9/23/2023 3:23 pm : link
In comment 16218424 HBart said:
Quote:
We won't really be able to judge KT unless another edge rusher steps up. Ward's too slow. With the current roster construction, some combination of Azeez/Basham/Simmons.
I want to see Ojulari, Thibs, Simmons, Lawrence, Williams and Basham all on the field at the same time and attacking. There is some hope if healthy.
This is on Jones, but I get it.  
colin : 9/23/2023 6:16 pm : link
I don’t know how to post a screenshot, but this is a 3 step drop and the ball doesn’t come out. The moment his back foot hits the 15 yard line his throwing motion should start, but he takes a bounce step and that’s why the play blows up.

When DJ’s back foot hits that 15 yd line, both db’s have their backs to the sideline, moving towards the hashes. Hyatt is in the middle of his double move and has already completely turned his man, as well as the guy covering Slayton. He may not look open, but he beat those 2 DBs and the ball needs to come out. The play did exactly what it was designed to do, DJ has to learn to throw before he SEES a man open. I’ve grown to really appreciate Jones, but he has had, and continues to have, issues with anticipation.

Now, if you want to make the case that he’s been throwing to SoundCloud rappers with landscapers blocking him his whole career, and has had one year where he’s been coached by a sane adult, and that’s deterred him from being able to trust whats happening, that is 100% valid - which is why I say “I get it.” But this play busts because the QB doesn’t plant and throw on the 3rd step on a 3 step drop because he hasn’t seen his man running free.

And before anyone says, “Well the pocket collapsed,” you’re correct. He probably would have taken a hit, but when he plants on the 15, every hat has a hat on it. If he has time to take a bounce step, turn, and scramble, he has time to get the ball out. He just doesn’t trust his OL, WR, or play mechanics. I hope that’s something he can shake, ‘cause they really have “done everything possible to screw this kid up since he's been here.”
RE: This is on Jones, but I get it.  
kelsto811 : 9/23/2023 6:29 pm : link
In comment 16218919 colin said:
Quote:
I don’t know how to post a screenshot, but this is a 3 step drop and the ball doesn’t come out. The moment his back foot hits the 15 yard line his throwing motion should start, but he takes a bounce step and that’s why the play blows up.

When DJ’s back foot hits that 15 yd line, both db’s have their backs to the sideline, moving towards the hashes. Hyatt is in the middle of his double move and has already completely turned his man, as well as the guy covering Slayton. He may not look open, but he beat those 2 DBs and the ball needs to come out. The play did exactly what it was designed to do, DJ has to learn to throw before he SEES a man open. I’ve grown to really appreciate Jones, but he has had, and continues to have, issues with anticipation.

Now, if you want to make the case that he’s been throwing to SoundCloud rappers with landscapers blocking him his whole career, and has had one year where he’s been coached by a sane adult, and that’s deterred him from being able to trust whats happening, that is 100% valid - which is why I say “I get it.” But this play busts because the QB doesn’t plant and throw on the 3rd step on a 3 step drop because he hasn’t seen his man running free.

And before anyone says, “Well the pocket collapsed,” you’re correct. He probably would have taken a hit, but when he plants on the 15, every hat has a hat on it. If he has time to take a bounce step, turn, and scramble, he has time to get the ball out. He just doesn’t trust his OL, WR, or play mechanics. I hope that’s something he can shake, ‘cause they really have “done everything possible to screw this kid up since he's been here.”


Show me another play in this game that this happened? Last week he threw Hyatt open, albeit a bit underthrown, but did he not? This is one play out of an entire game...now if he is missing these consistently in games, then lets see it. The coaching staff would obviously be trying to fix this in the film room.
RE: RE: Crushing block here  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/23/2023 6:47 pm : link
In comment 16218068 bluefin said:
Quote:
In comment 16218024 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Nick Falato
@nickfalato

It deserved its own post

A physical finish from Lemieux https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1705218156078219270 - ( New Window )


no no no, that didn’t happen, I heard Lemieux sucks and he stinks…put someone else at LG next game so JMS doesn’t develop chemistry with anyone.


I wasn’t aware a blind siding a LB is impressive. The dude sucked all night.
RE: RE: This is on Jones, but I get it.  
colin : 9/23/2023 9:15 pm : link
In comment 16218927 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
In comment 16218919 colin said:


Quote:


I don’t know how to post a screenshot, but this is a 3 step drop and the ball doesn’t come out. The moment his back foot hits the 15 yard line his throwing motion should start, but he takes a bounce step and that’s why the play blows up.

When DJ’s back foot hits that 15 yd line, both db’s have their backs to the sideline, moving towards the hashes. Hyatt is in the middle of his double move and has already completely turned his man, as well as the guy covering Slayton. He may not look open, but he beat those 2 DBs and the ball needs to come out. The play did exactly what it was designed to do, DJ has to learn to throw before he SEES a man open. I’ve grown to really appreciate Jones, but he has had, and continues to have, issues with anticipation.

Now, if you want to make the case that he’s been throwing to SoundCloud rappers with landscapers blocking him his whole career, and has had one year where he’s been coached by a sane adult, and that’s deterred him from being able to trust whats happening, that is 100% valid - which is why I say “I get it.” But this play busts because the QB doesn’t plant and throw on the 3rd step on a 3 step drop because he hasn’t seen his man running free.

And before anyone says, “Well the pocket collapsed,” you’re correct. He probably would have taken a hit, but when he plants on the 15, every hat has a hat on it. If he has time to take a bounce step, turn, and scramble, he has time to get the ball out. He just doesn’t trust his OL, WR, or play mechanics. I hope that’s something he can shake, ‘cause they really have “done everything possible to screw this kid up since he's been here.”



Show me another play in this game that this happened? Last week he threw Hyatt open, albeit a bit underthrown, but did he not? This is one play out of an entire game...now if he is missing these consistently in games, then let’s see it. The coaching staff would obviously be trying to fix this in the film room.


That’s weirdly abrasive. I’m not making an outlandish statement here, indecision, anticipation issues, and unwillingness to take risks have been in DJ’s profile for a long time now. It used to be more evident in that double clutch move and staring down his first option, he was able to work that out of his game.

But from this game? I can’t. But there’s an excellent thread breaking it down that was linked right on this site from the Cards game…
Lonk - ( New Window )
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