But any review of the offense that doesn't start, focus nearly 100 percent on, and end with the fact that was probably the least experienced offensive line to ever start a game in the NFL just isn't worth the time.
Peart was the experienced veteran leader of our oline Thurs.
are understandably disappointed that the Giants haven't "closed the gap" with the better teams in the league, i.e. Dallas and SF, and most likely Philadelphia as well. But our OL is very inexperienced and are generating almost no edge pressure. My guess is we largely "reboot" those position groups next year. Football at all levels is won in the trenches. Our DTs are the only part of our OL and DL that can be considered elite, and that isn't enough to be competitive against the better teams.
Our schedule is also much tougher this year, we are starting two rookie CBs, and we overall have a very young team.
I agree with Eric that the Giants are likely a .500 team. With any luck they might still be in the playoff hunt in December. As a fan, that is all I can ask for this year given our deficiencies on the OL and at EDGE.
You may be right, but I bet the OL looks OK at worst once AT and Bredeson are back. The OL is a unit. If Neal is solid, and I think he will be, they'll be fine. Maybe even pretty good by mid-season
The DL deficiencies? Maybe they do need an edge reboot. We'll see. The season starts now.
A sobering and honest reflection on the current state of this team. Did we expect to win this game? No. But we expected to see some things in terms of coaching and aggressive playmaking on both sides of the ball that could inspire confidence for this team going forward.
DJ with another bad game against a good team. Now 1-11 in prime time, this was another in the long list of embarrassing performances, or "teachable moments", as we should more delicately put it. This time getting schooled by Mr. Irrelevant on how to throw receivers open downfield in tight windows under duress. Yes, the Niners are good. But Stafford just put up three hundred yards in the air last week carving up this defense with the vaunted weapons of Nacua, Atwell and Skowronek. A good quarterback elevates his team. Getting the Giants to believe that weapons like Waller would somehow elevate DJ against good defenses will go down as perhaps the greatest trick a player and his agents ever pulled over an NFL franchise.
The OL is brutal with no hope in sight there. The fact that Neal wasn't a dud is perhaps the best and most hopeful result from this game. And the defense downright stinks - only positive was McFadden who went from dud against a dud offense to a stud against a stud offense. Go figure? The overall coaching continues to appear lost. How can Jalin Hyatt be absent from this game after the Cardinals win? Bizarre!
The Giants will likely now be underdogs in every game they play the rest of the way. Can they steal a game here and there? Of course. But if they don't beat Seattle, they are staring at 1-5 and another 2017 like season. But rather than express absolute disgust with what has happened to this team, let's spend our time making tiresome excuses. And let's make fun of Giants fans who are "overreacting" to the emerging reality of what this foreseeable future will be for those of us who were led to believe that there would be improvement this year.
KT probably said it best when he said the fans are the real problem. That's it. It's the fans' fault. But the enemy my fellow Giant aficionados is not the consumer of the inferior product, it is the producer of the inferior product, who not only deflects blame for such product, but who puts lipstick on a pig and blows smoke up our collective asses.
Or as Sy put it more succinctly, it simply is what it is.
He may have blown Davidson's arm out on this play. I expect more retaliation from the Giants on this type of stuff. You can't let it fly. They already did the Dallas game twice by not sticking up for Jones. Someone needs to step up and let other teams know this will not be tolerated and we'll keep receipts.
To see this happen to Davidson, a late pick who is playing well after coming back from an ACL...really pisses me off.
No way we match a good team with our o-line that started that night.
Disagree with Brightwell evaluation. Nothing in the positive category that could make any kind of difference and as bad a drop as you will ever see which Sy and BBI are probably blaming on DJ.
Seattle at home coming off lots of rest is a formula for us to come out ready and execute,or ELSE!!
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
the team should have been brawling with Dallas on their hits on Jones, even if it was a legal hit.
Absolutely
When we "played smart football" as Banks like to say, against Hurt a couple of years back, Mailata was all up in the Giants faces and crying at the end of the game.
Nothing from this team.
Suppose we have different ideas what a bad game is
Makeshift OL against a top DL and the receivers could not get separated unless it was DJ already scrambling out of the pocket due to the heavy rush. Gee. I thought he was very limited in opportunities and thus made the offense super conservative.
Re: McKethan, looks like his lateral movement and possibly poor hand placement are what cost him in this game. I agree his shear size and arm length are weapons though. Better use of the hands will lead to more wins but can he improve on his agility as he continues to recover from the knee? How was he getting reps on the outside last year?
I'll be honest - I did not think he had enough athletic upside coming out of UNC. He actually looked better at 2022 camp than I remember seeing on film UNC. The pad level isn't natural and his reactionary quickness still seems too slow and heavy. That kind of frame can make up for things to a point, though.
I suspect they were still recovering from the ass-whooping in the first game.
The 49er game was as predictable as the sun rising in the east. The fact that fans are making more out of it than it was is a bit comical.
The Giants aren't playing well right now, but being 1-2 at this point isn't a huge surprise. Even the most optimistic fans said before the season that 3-3 would be a "win" through the first six games.
The Giants could easily be 1-5. But they could also be 3-3.
I also didn't come away from the 49er game as down as many did. I certainly didn't see a reason to from what Sy said last week to what he said this week about Daniel Jones.
I'm also puzzled at Sy's take this week on DJ. Like Carl Banks said, the Giants skill players need to make plays too.
No way we match a good team with our o-line that started that night.
Disagree with Brightwell evaluation. Nothing in the positive category that could make any kind of difference and as bad a drop as you will ever see which Sy and BBI are probably blaming on DJ.
You're chasing ghosts.
I charged Waller for the drop. I noted the INTs Jones has on his record are not on him.
On here. Truth is, you can argue that the line is full of inexperience, the team is young, and any other myriad excuses you want but... that only highlights the very issue. It all reflects on how well put together the team is and competitive it looks after significant investments.
RE: Week 4 will determine where we are going this year
Seattle at home coming off lots of rest is a formula for us to come out ready and execute,or ELSE!!
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
The second year of the system is nice, but the more important thing is talent level. We signed 3 key free agents who, prior to Dallas, will have practiced for real in it less than 16 times. Simmons and Basham less than half of that.
We have 2 rookie CBs. Again, 16 practices pre-Dallas at most. To both learn the system and get welcomed to the NFL.
Since Dallas the entire D will have practiced twice at most.
It's just too early to draw really any conclusions about the defense other than there's more work to do. And -- health aside because that's always a wild card -- you'd expect them to significantly improve each week. They need the game film and experience as a unit. Remember there's only one real practice a week (until late season when the may be none).
The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
He may have blown Davidson's arm out on this play. I expect more retaliation from the Giants on this type of stuff. You can't let it fly. They already did the Dallas game twice by not sticking up for Jones. Someone needs to step up and let other teams know this will not be tolerated and we'll keep receipts.
To see this happen to Davidson, a late pick who is playing well after coming back from an ACL...really pisses me off.
Brendel Cheap Shot - ( New Window )
I used to root for a team in Blue that played angry with one big f-ing chip on its shoulder. Anyone know where that team went? Been a long time.
I don't see the guy on the Giants that screams "follow me" and the team does.
Where is the one guy with the physical ability and mental toughness on the Giants to be that Leader.
Dex is the closest thing but we really need that stud linebacker who can take over a game.
Very good point. The latest in the annals of "participation trophy" team dynamics. Where have you gone Harry Carson, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you...
I don't see the guy on the Giants that screams "follow me" and the team does.
Where is the one guy with the physical ability and mental toughness on the Giants to be that Leader.
Dex is the closest thing but we really need that stud linebacker who can take over a game.
Yea looked like they had no leadership down 3 TDs last week...
Some of you latch on to the stupidest shit.
They got outplayed by an infinitely better team.
Beautifully succinct and dead on: "They got outplayed by an infinitely better team."
Being more wordy myself, I'd tack on: with a patchwork close-to-all-rookie OL, 2 of their best hurt, and on the road with terribly adverse scheduling and timing.
RE: RE: Week 4 will determine where we are going this year
Seattle at home coming off lots of rest is a formula for us to come out ready and execute,or ELSE!!
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
The second year of the system is nice, but the more important thing is talent level. We signed 3 key free agents who, prior to Dallas, will have practiced for real in it less than 16 times. Simmons and Basham less than half of that.
We have 2 rookie CBs. Again, 16 practices pre-Dallas at most. To both learn the system and get welcomed to the NFL.
Since Dallas the entire D will have practiced twice at most.
It's just too early to draw really any conclusions about the defense other than there's more work to do. And -- health aside because that's always a wild card -- you'd expect them to significantly improve each week. They need the game film and experience as a unit. Remember there's only one real practice a week (until late season when the may be none).
The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
Without a doubt, lack of true practice time hurts development and synchronicity. This team will be well rested and hopefully ready for Seattle.
If the missed tackles are cut in less than half; if the pass rush picks up with Ojulari back and Thibs turning it on (a big if...); and, the OL can at least develop more cohesion with Thomas back we should compete on Monday night.
Get the win and continue to learn and gel for the stretch run. 3 - 4 is a strong possibility but 1 - 6 during tough stretch would be hard to overcome for the playoffs.
I don’t know when it became such an extreme viewpoint to want a QB that you talk about as able to raise the circumstances around them not be a victim of it.
But I do know that it seems crazy to pay everyone like you expect a contender lay 2 eggs against your direct competitors in that and then want to attack people who would like more out of a QB than that.
RE: So when does Eric start a thread chastising Sy for piling on Thibs?
DJ is a threat, but not used. The backup RBs aren't great, but not used even to 'keep the defense honest'. No use of Hyatt to spread the defense out.
Jones is what he is: better than the alternatives that have been available, but not good enough. Absolutely, IF we're picking in the top half of the draft (which is likely, IMO) and we can maneuver to get a top QB prospect, that's the move to take. Continued play as we've seen it from DJ confirms this. Obviously, if he ups his game, this changes, but I'd place my bet on more of the same.
I don't see how Barkley and AT healthy get this team to 10-11 games, when so many other aspects of the team are not doing well. A lot of the team has to step up to the plate to get this team to winning half the 'easy' games. Way more than half the 'tough' games will be losses even with halfway decent play from the team. I'm guessing a 5-7 W window unless the Plan starts to come together. B and AT aren't the difference between being competitive and what we've been seeing.
must turn to Schoen and his draft picks. They all look like complete duds.
This is funny, we all loved Schoen a couple months ago and now he sucks as a GM to some. lol
Priceless....cause you know 3 of this years picks are not only starting but have been some of our better players. Why the F not all of them? And why the F isn't Isaiah Simmons Micah Parsons? And for that matter how come Schoen couldn't get Dallas to trade Parsons to us for a 6th. And why the F aren't his free agent signings already being voted All-Pro?
Christ, he can't even stop our franchise LT from getting hurt.
Fire that loser!
We all expected them to be 1-2 right now, SF and Dallas
I don't know if it's been the decade of Reese and Gettleman and all of the various coaches. I don't know if it is the 24-hour news cycle. I don't know if it is social media. I don't know if it is the state of sports journalism.... but arguments like the one you just made don't hold water with fans anymore.
There is absolutely no patience or perspective.
The Giants have the second-youngest team in the NFL and I doubt there is a team with a younger and more inexperienced offensive line.
It's essentially impossible to have a less experienced line than the Giants had against SF. You'd have to start 5 rookies.
You are spot on about the qb! Daniel Jones is a very good qb, if anyone thinks that drafting a qb and putting him behind this oline and thinks he can win is just plain stupid!
RE: RE: RE: I can’t be drawing many conclusions about this team
We’re fielding the youngest starting roster in the league and I think by a pretty wide margin. We began the year playing two of the league’s powerhouse franchises. We’re already seen five different OL combinations on the field and only two spots where the same player has played every snap. Overall we have something like ten new starters. It says something when you’re looking forward to playing teams only as good as the Seahawks, Dolphins and Bills. I’m no more patient than most but this is not the time for proclamations about the future.
As to the different OL combinations, I think it's irrelevant. We have 2 good players, AT and JMS. All of the other guys are mediocre at best, doesn't matter where you put them. It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Right, and AT hasn’t played in two weeks so we’re replacing our best OL in the most important position with a backup guard. And Bredeson was better than Ezeudu, McKethan and Neal and he’s been gone as well. Anything but irrelevant.
I already gave props to AT. My comment regards the 2 guard positions and RT. If you think Bredeson is going to be some kind of savior, or even major upgrade, we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes, he's the best of the bunch, but he's still not much
the only players deserving plaudits are McFadden, with his best game as a pro (need to see more of that)...and Gano with a 57 yard bomb of a field goal. That's all there was to see here...om to Seattle.
RE: RE: Week 4 will determine where we are going this year
must turn to Schoen and his draft picks. They all look like complete duds.
This is funny, we all loved Schoen a couple months ago and now he sucks as a GM to some. lol
No, that wasn’t said. But, tell me which draft pick excites you right now? If they continue to play like complete garbage, who deserves blame?
You did not say that but have seen it start to be thrown around lately.
Excited about Banks, JMS, Hyatt, Hawkins and Riley. They are 3 games in, maybe give them a couple more games before calling them garbage?
As far as Thibs and Neal, It's up to them to play better. Someone else would of drafted them shortly after us if we did not. It's not like they were reaches for Schoen.
must turn to Schoen and his draft picks. They all look like complete duds.
Elephant in the room. This team is stuck in a perpetual loop of mediocrity unless they start totally knocking their drafts out of the park. This roster is young, but not necessarily good and it lacks depth.
This has me more pessimistic than anything else regarding the overall state of the Giants. The young talent needs to ascend and right now if anything I seem regression.
I'm not close to being out on this regime, just stating this roster isn't close to competing.
The best thing I heard during the game, and more than once, was how high he was kicking the ball. Iirc, his big problem last year was kicking too long and low, outkicking his coverage. If he's solved that, it's a big step forward.
Agreed. I would’ve swapped our Scottish players for the studs. Gano had that one great kick but the Hammer had 6 excellent punts that kept us in the field position battle.
Probably your answer will be "it is just part of the game", but what did you think of all the holding(blatant, not small cloth) that the 49er line got away with. Thought this was a terribly officiated game. Trent Williams and Spencer Buford seemed to be grabbing every pass play and Juszczyk bear hugged Okereke in the hole on McCaffery's 1st big run. I just don't see how officials at this level miss a hold like that.
Yes the Giants were outplayed, but a few clutch and grabs that are ignored are sufficient to change the tenor of the game.
I agree on the Thibs illegal contact was weak. By rule Williams roughing the passer was correct. I just do not see how a 320 lber can change direction on a bang-bang play. It was a text book form tackle. Tough shit, QBs are football players too.
RE: RE: RE: Week 4 will determine where we are going this year
The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
So far there's been no problem with the defense getting enough reps :)
I know it's tongue in cheek, but seriously -- Games 1-3 are a coaching film gift. We learn by mistakes, and they packed a season's worth into 3 games. The OL especially, after facing Dallas and SF.
Hard to pass judgment on Jones and the offense due to injuries and the continued incompetence of the OL. But the defense which was not good last year has taken several steps backward. Wink’s system was not working his last season in Baltimore and it didn’t work last year. Thought was that a talent upgrade was necessary and supposedly that has happened. Yet the defense is worse—so far.
Let’s turn the attention to Defensive Coordinator Wink Martindale. It is hard to fully diagnose what is going on, but the results are scary. 98 points allowed in 3 games (let’s take off 14 for the special teams + defensive TDs from week 1). So, 84 points allowed. Sixth worst in yards per play allowed. Last in turnovers. Fourth most in yards per pass allowed. 14th most yards per rush allowed. Second worst in pressure percentage. Sixth most missed tackles. Seventh worst on third down. The personnel was upgraded. There are 7 returning starters. And everything has gone backwards. Has the league figured out Martindale? It is something that needs to be considered.
That's a pretty alarming, but reasonable take on the defense so far this season.
Maybe this year will be the reverse of last season
And they will put a big run together at the end of the season.
We could be sitting at 1 - 5 if we don't fix the OL; lack of tackling & pressure & turnovers by the defense; and, lack of ace playmaker on offense if in fact Waller's age & injuries have chipped away his physical skills.
On here. Truth is, you can argue that the line is full of inexperience, the team is young, and any other myriad excuses you want but... that only highlights the very issue. It all reflects on how well put together the team is and competitive it looks after significant investments.
please don’t bring that lame ass “copium” phrase here. It already sucks on Reddit
Peart was the experienced veteran leader of our oline Thurs.
Our schedule is also much tougher this year, we are starting two rookie CBs, and we overall have a very young team.
I agree with Eric that the Giants are likely a .500 team. With any luck they might still be in the playoff hunt in December. As a fan, that is all I can ask for this year given our deficiencies on the OL and at EDGE.
You may be right, but I bet the OL looks OK at worst once AT and Bredeson are back. The OL is a unit. If Neal is solid, and I think he will be, they'll be fine. Maybe even pretty good by mid-season
The DL deficiencies? Maybe they do need an edge reboot. We'll see. The season starts now.
DJ with another bad game against a good team. Now 1-11 in prime time, this was another in the long list of embarrassing performances, or "teachable moments", as we should more delicately put it. This time getting schooled by Mr. Irrelevant on how to throw receivers open downfield in tight windows under duress. Yes, the Niners are good. But Stafford just put up three hundred yards in the air last week carving up this defense with the vaunted weapons of Nacua, Atwell and Skowronek. A good quarterback elevates his team. Getting the Giants to believe that weapons like Waller would somehow elevate DJ against good defenses will go down as perhaps the greatest trick a player and his agents ever pulled over an NFL franchise.
The OL is brutal with no hope in sight there. The fact that Neal wasn't a dud is perhaps the best and most hopeful result from this game. And the defense downright stinks - only positive was McFadden who went from dud against a dud offense to a stud against a stud offense. Go figure? The overall coaching continues to appear lost. How can Jalin Hyatt be absent from this game after the Cardinals win? Bizarre!
The Giants will likely now be underdogs in every game they play the rest of the way. Can they steal a game here and there? Of course. But if they don't beat Seattle, they are staring at 1-5 and another 2017 like season. But rather than express absolute disgust with what has happened to this team, let's spend our time making tiresome excuses. And let's make fun of Giants fans who are "overreacting" to the emerging reality of what this foreseeable future will be for those of us who were led to believe that there would be improvement this year.
KT probably said it best when he said the fans are the real problem. That's it. It's the fans' fault. But the enemy my fellow Giant aficionados is not the consumer of the inferior product, it is the producer of the inferior product, who not only deflects blame for such product, but who puts lipstick on a pig and blows smoke up our collective asses.
Or as Sy put it more succinctly, it simply is what it is.
To see this happen to Davidson, a late pick who is playing well after coming back from an ACL...really pisses me off.
Brendel Cheap Shot - ( New Window )
Microcosm of the defense thus far. Lacks playing with an edge and toughness.
Disagree with Brightwell evaluation. Nothing in the positive category that could make any kind of difference and as bad a drop as you will ever see which Sy and BBI are probably blaming on DJ.
Absolutely
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
Quote:
the team should have been brawling with Dallas on their hits on Jones, even if it was a legal hit.
Absolutely
When we "played smart football" as Banks like to say, against Hurt a couple of years back, Mailata was all up in the Giants faces and crying at the end of the game.
Nothing from this team.
Makeshift OL against a top DL and the receivers could not get separated unless it was DJ already scrambling out of the pocket due to the heavy rush. Gee. I thought he was very limited in opportunities and thus made the offense super conservative.
I think this still could be a team that hovers around .500 until late in the year.
Not quite sure what you are saying here. If Barkley and Thomas get/stay healthy - I think this is 10-11 win team.
But they key players need to play better. A lot better.
I'll be honest - I did not think he had enough athletic upside coming out of UNC. He actually looked better at 2022 camp than I remember seeing on film UNC. The pad level isn't natural and his reactionary quickness still seems too slow and heavy. That kind of frame can make up for things to a point, though.
I am glad he's getting the playing time though.
Quote:
but the second half didn't...
I suspect they were still recovering from the ass-whooping in the first game.
The 49er game was as predictable as the sun rising in the east. The fact that fans are making more out of it than it was is a bit comical.
The Giants aren't playing well right now, but being 1-2 at this point isn't a huge surprise. Even the most optimistic fans said before the season that 3-3 would be a "win" through the first six games.
The Giants could easily be 1-5. But they could also be 3-3.
I also didn't come away from the 49er game as down as many did. I certainly didn't see a reason to from what Sy said last week to what he said this week about Daniel Jones.
I'm also puzzled at Sy's take this week on DJ. Like Carl Banks said, the Giants skill players need to make plays too.
What are you confused about?
Disagree with Brightwell evaluation. Nothing in the positive category that could make any kind of difference and as bad a drop as you will ever see which Sy and BBI are probably blaming on DJ.
You're chasing ghosts.
I charged Waller for the drop. I noted the INTs Jones has on his record are not on him.
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
The second year of the system is nice, but the more important thing is talent level. We signed 3 key free agents who, prior to Dallas, will have practiced for real in it less than 16 times. Simmons and Basham less than half of that.
We have 2 rookie CBs. Again, 16 practices pre-Dallas at most. To both learn the system and get welcomed to the NFL.
Since Dallas the entire D will have practiced twice at most.
It's just too early to draw really any conclusions about the defense other than there's more work to do. And -- health aside because that's always a wild card -- you'd expect them to significantly improve each week. They need the game film and experience as a unit. Remember there's only one real practice a week (until late season when the may be none).
The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
Quote:
In comment 16218444 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
but the second half didn't...
I suspect they were still recovering from the ass-whooping in the first game.
<snip>
What are you confused about?
Question whether Jones is worth his money after this game.
To see this happen to Davidson, a late pick who is playing well after coming back from an ACL...really pisses me off.
Brendel Cheap Shot - ( New Window )
I used to root for a team in Blue that played angry with one big f-ing chip on its shoulder. Anyone know where that team went? Been a long time.
Where is the one guy with the physical ability and mental toughness on the Giants to be that Leader.
Dex is the closest thing but we really need that stud linebacker who can take over a game.
Where is the one guy with the physical ability and mental toughness on the Giants to be that Leader.
Dex is the closest thing but we really need that stud linebacker who can take over a game.
Yea looked like they had no leadership down 3 TDs last week...
Some of you latch on to the stupidest shit.
They got outplayed by an infinitely better team.
Where is the one guy with the physical ability and mental toughness on the Giants to be that Leader.
Dex is the closest thing but we really need that stud linebacker who can take over a game.
Very good point. The latest in the annals of "participation trophy" team dynamics. Where have you gone Harry Carson, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you...
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I don't see the guy on the Giants that screams "follow me" and the team does.
Where is the one guy with the physical ability and mental toughness on the Giants to be that Leader.
Dex is the closest thing but we really need that stud linebacker who can take over a game.
Yea looked like they had no leadership down 3 TDs last week...
Some of you latch on to the stupidest shit.
They got outplayed by an infinitely better team.
Beautifully succinct and dead on: "They got outplayed by an infinitely better team."
Being more wordy myself, I'd tack on: with a patchwork close-to-all-rookie OL, 2 of their best hurt, and on the road with terribly adverse scheduling and timing.
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Seattle at home coming off lots of rest is a formula for us to come out ready and execute,or ELSE!!
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
The second year of the system is nice, but the more important thing is talent level. We signed 3 key free agents who, prior to Dallas, will have practiced for real in it less than 16 times. Simmons and Basham less than half of that.
We have 2 rookie CBs. Again, 16 practices pre-Dallas at most. To both learn the system and get welcomed to the NFL.
Since Dallas the entire D will have practiced twice at most.
It's just too early to draw really any conclusions about the defense other than there's more work to do. And -- health aside because that's always a wild card -- you'd expect them to significantly improve each week. They need the game film and experience as a unit. Remember there's only one real practice a week (until late season when the may be none).
The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
If the missed tackles are cut in less than half; if the pass rush picks up with Ojulari back and Thibs turning it on (a big if...); and, the OL can at least develop more cohesion with Thomas back we should compete on Monday night.
Get the win and continue to learn and gel for the stretch run. 3 - 4 is a strong possibility but 1 - 6 during tough stretch would be hard to overcome for the playoffs.
But I do know that it seems crazy to pay everyone like you expect a contender lay 2 eggs against your direct competitors in that and then want to attack people who would like more out of a QB than that.
I never chastised posters for criticizing KT's play.
I chastised posters for saying he doesn't care or isn't trying.
Big difference.
Try keeping up.
This is funny, we all loved Schoen a couple months ago and now he sucks as a GM to some. lol
Jones is what he is: better than the alternatives that have been available, but not good enough. Absolutely, IF we're picking in the top half of the draft (which is likely, IMO) and we can maneuver to get a top QB prospect, that's the move to take. Continued play as we've seen it from DJ confirms this. Obviously, if he ups his game, this changes, but I'd place my bet on more of the same.
I don't see how Barkley and AT healthy get this team to 10-11 games, when so many other aspects of the team are not doing well. A lot of the team has to step up to the plate to get this team to winning half the 'easy' games. Way more than half the 'tough' games will be losses even with halfway decent play from the team. I'm guessing a 5-7 W window unless the Plan starts to come together. B and AT aren't the difference between being competitive and what we've been seeing.
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must turn to Schoen and his draft picks. They all look like complete duds.
This is funny, we all loved Schoen a couple months ago and now he sucks as a GM to some. lol
Priceless....cause you know 3 of this years picks are not only starting but have been some of our better players. Why the F not all of them? And why the F isn't Isaiah Simmons Micah Parsons? And for that matter how come Schoen couldn't get Dallas to trade Parsons to us for a 6th. And why the F aren't his free agent signings already being voted All-Pro?
Christ, he can't even stop our franchise LT from getting hurt.
Fire that loser!
Our season starts on Monday night, then we will see what we have. I will reserve judgement on Jones, and the whole team, until then
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I don't know if it's been the decade of Reese and Gettleman and all of the various coaches. I don't know if it is the 24-hour news cycle. I don't know if it is social media. I don't know if it is the state of sports journalism.... but arguments like the one you just made don't hold water with fans anymore.
There is absolutely no patience or perspective.
The Giants have the second-youngest team in the NFL and I doubt there is a team with a younger and more inexperienced offensive line.
It's essentially impossible to have a less experienced line than the Giants had against SF. You'd have to start 5 rookies.
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In comment 16218421 BillT said:
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We’re fielding the youngest starting roster in the league and I think by a pretty wide margin. We began the year playing two of the league’s powerhouse franchises. We’re already seen five different OL combinations on the field and only two spots where the same player has played every snap. Overall we have something like ten new starters. It says something when you’re looking forward to playing teams only as good as the Seahawks, Dolphins and Bills. I’m no more patient than most but this is not the time for proclamations about the future.
As to the different OL combinations, I think it's irrelevant. We have 2 good players, AT and JMS. All of the other guys are mediocre at best, doesn't matter where you put them. It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Right, and AT hasn’t played in two weeks so we’re replacing our best OL in the most important position with a backup guard. And Bredeson was better than Ezeudu, McKethan and Neal and he’s been gone as well. Anything but irrelevant.
I already gave props to AT. My comment regards the 2 guard positions and RT. If you think Bredeson is going to be some kind of savior, or even major upgrade, we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes, he's the best of the bunch, but he's still not much
The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
So far there's been no problem with the defense getting enough reps :)
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must turn to Schoen and his draft picks. They all look like complete duds.
This is funny, we all loved Schoen a couple months ago and now he sucks as a GM to some. lol
No, that wasn’t said. But, tell me which draft pick excites you right now? If they continue to play like complete garbage, who deserves blame?
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In comment 16218721 Silver Spoon said:
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must turn to Schoen and his draft picks. They all look like complete duds.
This is funny, we all loved Schoen a couple months ago and now he sucks as a GM to some. lol
No, that wasn’t said. But, tell me which draft pick excites you right now? If they continue to play like complete garbage, who deserves blame?
You did not say that but have seen it start to be thrown around lately.
Excited about Banks, JMS, Hyatt, Hawkins and Riley. They are 3 games in, maybe give them a couple more games before calling them garbage?
As far as Thibs and Neal, It's up to them to play better. Someone else would of drafted them shortly after us if we did not. It's not like they were reaches for Schoen.
Elephant in the room. This team is stuck in a perpetual loop of mediocrity unless they start totally knocking their drafts out of the park. This roster is young, but not necessarily good and it lacks depth.
This has me more pessimistic than anything else regarding the overall state of the Giants. The young talent needs to ascend and right now if anything I seem regression.
I'm not close to being out on this regime, just stating this roster isn't close to competing.
Yes the Giants were outplayed, but a few clutch and grabs that are ignored are sufficient to change the tenor of the game.
I agree on the Thibs illegal contact was weak. By rule Williams roughing the passer was correct. I just do not see how a 320 lber can change direction on a bang-bang play. It was a text book form tackle. Tough shit, QBs are football players too.
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The defense requires synchronicity. Same with the OL. Both take reps.
So far there's been no problem with the defense getting enough reps :)
I know it's tongue in cheek, but seriously -- Games 1-3 are a coaching film gift. We learn by mistakes, and they packed a season's worth into 3 games. The OL especially, after facing Dallas and SF.
Don Schoen
That's a pretty alarming, but reasonable take on the defense so far this season.