And they will put a big run together at the end of the season.
We could be sitting at 1 - 5 if we don't fix the OL;
This stretch of games to open the year was going to be extremely challenging a month ago when no one was concerned about the OL.
They've lost to teams they should have lost to and beat a team they should have beat. Seattle is a much more interesting game than Dallas or San Fran. You will learn a lot about the 2023 Giants when they don't play a bottom feeder or a possible super bowl team.
I think they could go 2-5, and then they'll get games against Washington twice, Vegas, New England, and Green Bay, which are teams on or near their level.
And they will put a big run together at the end of the season.
We could be sitting at 1 - 5 if we don't fix the OL;
This stretch of games to open the year was going to be extremely challenging a month ago when no one was concerned about the OL.
They've lost to teams they should have lost to and beat a team they should have beat. Seattle is a much more interesting game than Dallas or San Fran. You will learn a lot about the 2023 Giants when they don't play a bottom feeder or a possible super bowl team.
I think they could go 2-5, and then they'll get games against Washington twice, Vegas, New England, and Green Bay, which are teams on or near their level.
Agreed. My thing about the possibility of beating Seattle @ home on national TV is that we should finally be healthy. Maybe not Barkley but I'd think both Thomas and Ojulari should be ready to go.
The coaches now have enough film to figure it out I'd think and make adjustments. I can see this team establishing itself with a victory on Monday night and then on a short week perhaps we struggle but at least we get to 2 - 2 and show well.
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
Please list all the QBs who can lift their game and those around them against the best teams in the league without at least an average offensive line? What QB can make effective throws downfield when they routinely have less than 2 seconds to set up and throw?
And Campbell and Robinson will be the best offense to have on the field until the O line can give the QB at least 2 seconds. They are the receivers who can get quick separation. Thomas will help with that. Maybe Ezuedu instead of LeMieux helps that.
I don't think people really understand how badly that inexperienced O line was overmatched against San Fran. Actually, considering who was playing, they didn't do that badly. But it greatly limited what the offense could do, and what plays could be called. SF knew that, which gave their D a huge edge.
And when the offense can't stay on the field it compounds the struggles of the defense because they are on the field more.
But any review of the offense that doesn't start, focus nearly 100 percent on, and end with the fact that was probably the least experienced offensive line to ever start a game in the NFL just isn't worth the time.
Peart was the experienced veteran leader of our oline Thurs.
Peart and LeMieux have the most time with the Giants (and LeMieux has more game experience), but Neal (with less than a full season of games) was the lineman with the most NFL game experience on the team Thursday. Think about that. Not one member of that O line has a year of game experience.
You articulate very well what I think about Jones. At some point he needs to make some plays when things are not working around him. It seems like he never does against good competition. Yes, he stands tall in the pocket and deals with way less than ideal situations, but I'd still like him to make a big play against a superior opponent. He just doesn't. 1-11 in prime time and he hasn't beaten Dallas or Philly since the 2020 season where both teams weren't near the level they are now.
Are his conditions around him perfect? Nowhere near that. BUT, when NYG committed to Jones financially I expected him to still make some plays when things aren't perfect around him.
He gets confident and turns it on against inferior defenses. In recent memory, his best games were against the Vikings 2x, Colts and Cardinals. The offense was non existent against Philly, Dallas and SF.
It just feels like Jones is really good against bad defenses. Things will never be perfect around him , especially against the top tier teams.
Unfortunately, I think Sy said it best. "Daniel Jones just......is."
I like Daniel jones. I do. I want to see him work out here.I don't think it was wrong to resign him. I also don't think it was a bad move to leave an out after 2024. I mean, we've seen him save games,lead comebacks, and show some leadership. He needs to do better though.Sometimes he is a difference maker, and sometimes he isn't. He's safe this year and next. After that if they have a better line and better recievers, he'd be passable, but if not there may come a point where we have to move on.
56 mil in cap space next year, thereabouts, right in the middle of the league as far as that goes, enough to operate on but looks like what we have is gonna be basically the same next year, I really hope these guys get their shit together, and that includes the coaching and playcalling. And the QB play. Not condemning the guy but he needs to start making some clutch plays that lead to wins. He can, he's done it, but we need more if he wants to be secure here.
He just looks too hesitant and his routes to the QB often times look like he’s stuck between doing what he’s told to do and his instincts. I’m leaning more towards that the scheme is asking Thibs to do things that aren’t in his skillset too often
That may be true, but if all he is is a situational pass rusher( which is what it's starting to look like) then maybe he shouldn't have been drafted where he was. He looks lazy to me. Not hungry, not a leader. No dog, all show. He needs more than just experience to be any kind of difference maker, and I don't know he has it in him. Not gonna say bust yet, but I'd bet he doesn't get a second contract here.
The Cardinals first half as a residual of the Cowboy game is nonsense and a cop out. The Cardinals are the worst team in football and we’re missing possibly their best player on defense in Baker.
Dating back to the Philly game this team has been dominated for 14 of the last 16 quarters. Should they be beating Philly, Dallas and San Fran? No. Should they be getting manhandled like this? No.
Bottom line, Daboll hasn't had them ready to play their last 4 games. When the whole team is this flat, this unporepared for this long, that's coaching. He did a great job least year. Last 4 games, not so much. the man needs to make some adjustments, with himself and his staff as well as his players.
is spot on. I don't care if Holmes is grabby - him on the inside with Jackson/Banks on the outside seems like our best trio at this point. If Banks is injured, can we try more of Flott? What a great play that was against the Vikings in the playoff game not too long ago. Seems like a forgotten man at the moment.
RE: Week 4 will determine where we are going this year
Seattle at home coming off lots of rest is a formula for us to come out ready and execute,or ELSE!!
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
Week 4 is the key. 1-2 is par for the course with the schedule; it's a little uglier than we'd all like, but it wasn't reasonable to expect them to beat DAL/SF at this point in the season, with so much inexperience.
Seattle, though... that's a mid-tier NFC Team. If the Giants are hoping to have a good year with this schedule, you need to beat teams like Seattle.
home opener will always factor in how this team is judged. I feel it's just human nature to know how bad this team is capable of looking due to that one game.
Not fair, but that's life and the NFL.
To me, its to that they are 1-2 right now, it's how they won/lost. Out-0played, out-muscled and out-willed.
So you judge the 2007 New York Giants on the 80 points they gave up in the first two games of the season?
Weird. That's not how I remember them.
Was that the year they were 0-2, and at halftime game 3 vs Washington they were behind 17-nothing at the half, staring into the abyss?
It’s the outlier of the past 16 quarters, against a team that is actively tanking. I’d wager the offense won’t look like that again at any point of the season.
We shall see, won't we?
Couple of years back, we were stinking it up, and you went on a few weeks in a row about how they couldn't be this bad , you believed they had talent and should be better. That's about the only thing gives me hope, is that maybe they have the talent but just haven't gotten their shit together yet. Their attitudes don't seem right, none of them. None of them. They come out cold. They don't seem prepared, don't seem to have a command of the fundamentals, can't game plan, can't execute. They are certainly all on the same page though, I'll give them that.
Myself I Think a turnaround has to start with Daboll.He's missing something.
Getting the Giants to believe that weapons like Waller would somehow elevate DJ against good defenses will go down as perhaps the greatest trick a player and his agents ever pulled over an NFL franchise.
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
Please list all the QBs who can lift their game and those around them against the best teams in the league without at least an average offensive line? What QB can make effective throws downfield when they routinely have less than 2 seconds to set up and throw?
And Campbell and Robinson will be the best offense to have on the field until the O line can give the QB at least 2 seconds. They are the receivers who can get quick separation. Thomas will help with that. Maybe Ezuedu instead of LeMieux helps that.
I don't think people really understand how badly that inexperienced O line was overmatched against San Fran. Actually, considering who was playing, they didn't do that badly. But it greatly limited what the offense could do, and what plays could be called. SF knew that, which gave their D a huge edge.
And when the offense can't stay on the field it compounds the struggles of the defense because they are on the field more.
They don’t understand or just want complain like most.
RE: RE: There's one thing I disagree with Sy'56 on
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
Please list all the QBs who can lift their game and those around them against the best teams in the league without at least an average offensive line? What QB can make effective throws downfield when they routinely have less than 2 seconds to set up and throw?
And Campbell and Robinson will be the best offense to have on the field until the O line can give the QB at least 2 seconds. They are the receivers who can get quick separation. Thomas will help with that. Maybe Ezuedu instead of LeMieux helps that.
I don't think people really understand how badly that inexperienced O line was overmatched against San Fran. Actually, considering who was playing, they didn't do that badly. But it greatly limited what the offense could do, and what plays could be called. SF knew that, which gave their D a huge edge.
And when the offense can't stay on the field it compounds the struggles of the defense because they are on the field more.
There are a lot of plays he has more than 2 seconds. His movement in the pocket, making off-schedule throws accurately, shit, even on-schedule throws accuracy has been off. You can keep explaining away what we keep seeing ad nauseum, he hasn't shown to be good enough when it counts. No, you're not going to make every play no matter who you are, but 2 or 3 in a game often makes the difference, and he is not making any of them.
Your long post above was quite interesting, I agree with you that the Giants must take deep shots repeatedly. There’s a lot of speed at WR. It’s ok if they’re incomplete. Throw it long several times a game.
Couple other comments:
- The use of Parris Campbell as an underneath possession outlet has to be one of the weirder things I’ve seen out of this coaching staff. Doesn’t Campbell have sub 4.4 speed? I think he’s miscast and not playing the role well.
- Jim’s comments about Jones mirror Sy’s game review. Both are close to throwing in the towel on Jones. It’s not that he sucks. It’s that he’s middling and lays eggs with regularity. I’d say the next 5-6 games are another extremely important stretch for Jones’ career. We’re playing some good but not great defenses. Jones has to consistently deliver solid play in that stretch. If he doesn’t, Schoen as the GM will almost be forced to start scouting college QBs with an eye to replace DJ.
Your long post above was quite interesting, I agree with you that the Giants must take deep shots repeatedly. There’s a lot of speed at WR. It’s ok if they’re incomplete. Throw it long several times a game.
Couple other comments:
- The use of Parris Campbell as an underneath possession outlet has to be one of the weirder things I’ve seen out of this coaching staff. Doesn’t Campbell have sub 4.4 speed? I think he’s miscast and not playing the role well.
- Jim’s comments about Jones mirror Sy’s game review. Both are close to throwing in the towel on Jones. It’s not that he sucks. It’s that he’s middling and lays eggs with regularity. I’d say the next 5-6 games are another extremely important stretch for Jones’ career. We’re playing some good but not great defenses. Jones has to consistently deliver solid play in that stretch. If he doesn’t, Schoen as the GM will almost be forced to start scouting college QBs with an eye to replace DJ.
You can't use his, or Hyatt's speed if you don't have time. Campbell and Robinson are the two guys who are best at getting separation quickly. They knew they could not rely on plays against SF that take time to develop downfield.
But they need to start taking deep shots regularly v Seattle. It will put the D off balance and improve every Giants offensive player chances. It’s simply a must.
Is over reaction in my opinion. He had no opportunity to get into any kind of rhythm. Terrible protection, no receivers were getting open when he did have more than 2 seconds and a lot of guys are saying we should draft a new QB in the 1st round next year. It’s ridiculous. There are so many holes on this team. Invest in the OL next year. We need at least two new Guards and possibly a new RT.
We can win consistently with Jones if we put him in a position to do it and we’re close. The Defense also needs major help. Schoen has his work cut out for him next year.
How many different staffs and teammates does Jones
get before he has to own his fair share of a 1-11 record in prime time as the most important player on the field?
Why are people so intent on proving that our QB didn't "lose" us the game instead of asking the more important question of why don't strive to have a QB that we feel gives us a chance in any game?
These comments echo something that I've said more than a few times. Jones looks like he too often is playing not to screw up, not to lose than going for the win and doing so with confidence.
Doesn't mean he doesn't have that in him, he clearly does. It just is out there less consistently than any "franchise" QB I've ever seen.
That he looks like he’s playing not to lose. When he is given even a little time to work he delivers. Did it look like he was playing not to lose last week? The fact that he has been in so many different systems is more indicative that he has been set up for failure than a reason to expect that he should have proven more.
Quote:
And they will put a big run together at the end of the season.
We could be sitting at 1 - 5 if we don't fix the OL;
This stretch of games to open the year was going to be extremely challenging a month ago when no one was concerned about the OL.
They've lost to teams they should have lost to and beat a team they should have beat. Seattle is a much more interesting game than Dallas or San Fran. You will learn a lot about the 2023 Giants when they don't play a bottom feeder or a possible super bowl team.
I think they could go 2-5, and then they'll get games against Washington twice, Vegas, New England, and Green Bay, which are teams on or near their level.
Don Schoen
mixing Godfather and Animal House metaphors?
Quote:
In comment 16218905 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
And they will put a big run together at the end of the season.
We could be sitting at 1 - 5 if we don't fix the OL;
This stretch of games to open the year was going to be extremely challenging a month ago when no one was concerned about the OL.
They've lost to teams they should have lost to and beat a team they should have beat. Seattle is a much more interesting game than Dallas or San Fran. You will learn a lot about the 2023 Giants when they don't play a bottom feeder or a possible super bowl team.
I think they could go 2-5, and then they'll get games against Washington twice, Vegas, New England, and Green Bay, which are teams on or near their level.
The coaches now have enough film to figure it out I'd think and make adjustments. I can see this team establishing itself with a victory on Monday night and then on a short week perhaps we struggle but at least we get to 2 - 2 and show well.
Quote:
all family business: Williams? Dead. Jackson ? Dead. Barkley? Dead.
Don Schoen
mixing Godfather and Animal House metaphors?
"did we stop when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ?"
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
Please list all the QBs who can lift their game and those around them against the best teams in the league without at least an average offensive line? What QB can make effective throws downfield when they routinely have less than 2 seconds to set up and throw?
And Campbell and Robinson will be the best offense to have on the field until the O line can give the QB at least 2 seconds. They are the receivers who can get quick separation. Thomas will help with that. Maybe Ezuedu instead of LeMieux helps that.
I don't think people really understand how badly that inexperienced O line was overmatched against San Fran. Actually, considering who was playing, they didn't do that badly. But it greatly limited what the offense could do, and what plays could be called. SF knew that, which gave their D a huge edge.
And when the offense can't stay on the field it compounds the struggles of the defense because they are on the field more.
Quote:
But any review of the offense that doesn't start, focus nearly 100 percent on, and end with the fact that was probably the least experienced offensive line to ever start a game in the NFL just isn't worth the time.
Peart was the experienced veteran leader of our oline Thurs.
Peart and LeMieux have the most time with the Giants (and LeMieux has more game experience), but Neal (with less than a full season of games) was the lineman with the most NFL game experience on the team Thursday. Think about that. Not one member of that O line has a year of game experience.
Are his conditions around him perfect? Nowhere near that. BUT, when NYG committed to Jones financially I expected him to still make some plays when things aren't perfect around him.
He gets confident and turns it on against inferior defenses. In recent memory, his best games were against the Vikings 2x, Colts and Cardinals. The offense was non existent against Philly, Dallas and SF.
It just feels like Jones is really good against bad defenses. Things will never be perfect around him , especially against the top tier teams.
Unfortunately, I think Sy said it best. "Daniel Jones just......is."
56 mil in cap space next year, thereabouts, right in the middle of the league as far as that goes, enough to operate on but looks like what we have is gonna be basically the same next year, I really hope these guys get their shit together, and that includes the coaching and playcalling. And the QB play. Not condemning the guy but he needs to start making some clutch plays that lead to wins. He can, he's done it, but we need more if he wants to be secure here.
Dating back to the Philly game this team has been dominated for 14 of the last 16 quarters. Should they be beating Philly, Dallas and San Fran? No. Should they be getting manhandled like this? No.
Wink's defense has taken a step back considering we are in the 2nd year of the system. Part of it is an easy camp but part of it may just be that his style has been reviewed and figured out and he hasn't adjusted? Missed tackles are a bad bad sign.
The Giants OL is well not ready for prime time. Young. Inexperienced. But you have to hope there is upside and future especially with Neal, Schmitt and Ezedeu. If Neal remains "average at best" it hurts badly. Perhaps next year we see Thomas-ROOKIE#1-Schmitt-Neal-Ezedeu or something like that? McKethan a backup. Peart and Glowinski gone.
Finally, I haven't seen enough from Thibs to be sure but by now with his physical abilities you'd think he'd have more positive plays.
I believe in Daboll as a HC. I believe in Wink and think with 10 days they will make some adjustments.
If Thomas and Barkley are ready along with Ojulari on defense we should be competitive IF the coaches get the players to buy in and adjust to what they are good at.
9 - 8 is still possible. A wildcard is still possible. It is a long, long season and injuries hit so stay healthy and just beat Seattle without attrition and all will be well.
Week 4 is the key. 1-2 is par for the course with the schedule; it's a little uglier than we'd all like, but it wasn't reasonable to expect them to beat DAL/SF at this point in the season, with so much inexperience.
Seattle, though... that's a mid-tier NFC Team. If the Giants are hoping to have a good year with this schedule, you need to beat teams like Seattle.
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home opener will always factor in how this team is judged. I feel it's just human nature to know how bad this team is capable of looking due to that one game.
Not fair, but that's life and the NFL.
To me, its to that they are 1-2 right now, it's how they won/lost. Out-0played, out-muscled and out-willed.
So you judge the 2007 New York Giants on the 80 points they gave up in the first two games of the season?
Weird. That's not how I remember them.
Quote:
It’s the outlier of the past 16 quarters, against a team that is actively tanking. I’d wager the offense won’t look like that again at any point of the season.
We shall see, won't we?
Myself I Think a turnaround has to start with Daboll.He's missing something.
.
Quote:
And then something I feel was overlooked.
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
Please list all the QBs who can lift their game and those around them against the best teams in the league without at least an average offensive line? What QB can make effective throws downfield when they routinely have less than 2 seconds to set up and throw?
And Campbell and Robinson will be the best offense to have on the field until the O line can give the QB at least 2 seconds. They are the receivers who can get quick separation. Thomas will help with that. Maybe Ezuedu instead of LeMieux helps that.
I don't think people really understand how badly that inexperienced O line was overmatched against San Fran. Actually, considering who was playing, they didn't do that badly. But it greatly limited what the offense could do, and what plays could be called. SF knew that, which gave their D a huge edge.
And when the offense can't stay on the field it compounds the struggles of the defense because they are on the field more.
They don’t understand or just want complain like most.
Quote:
And then something I feel was overlooked.
I watched the illegal contact penalty play on Thibodeau about 5-6 times. It was the correct call, the initial contact was probably within 5 yards on Kittle, but the push DEFINITELY was after the 5 yards. It was a legit penalty.
I said before this game that there were two factors that needed to be present for the Giants to win this game. One was that they had to create turnovers. It seems they had a few chances at INTs and the corners couldn't come up with the play, and the chances were there.
There was one where Kittle knocked it away, I think from Hawkins but my memory might be faulty there...at any rate, he waited for the football rather than attack it, where he would've had a better chance.
The second was big plays down the field. This is my biggest disappointment. I agree with Sy in that Hyatt is under-utilized. This was THE spot where he needed to play a ton of snaps and get targets down the field. As a huge underdog, there was nothing to lose, and the offensive gameplan was terribly conservative. Underneath throws to Campbell and Wan'Dale was never going to get it done.
Against a team that is dynamic and efficient as the 49ers are on offense, and has a very good defense with balance at all three levels, you have to take chances down the field. To me, this was a coaching mistake in that trying to get the homerun downfield was just not tried enough, and the most dangerous weapon the Giants have to that end didn't get enough snaps.
The Giants were very much over-matched in this ballgame. When that is the case, you have to be bold in the offensive gameplanning, and particularly without Barkley, it seemed they were overly conservative.
To me, the fastest point to being a dangerous offensive team is to treat Hyatt as your team's primary target; your Stefon Diggs, your Tyreek Hill. Maybe he will never be that, but you have to ship your chips in the middle in a game like this and see what happens.
I thought McFadden's game was a little undersold. I thought he was absolutely terrific. There were tackles he made way down the field, and how about the big pass break-up in the endzone, on the boundary no less, down field. He made plays in the backfield, and plays in the secondary. He played impressively instinctual, and to me seems like the 2nd best defensive player on this team after Dexter Lawrence in the early going. The Giants have found something here.
I said after week 1's game that DJ needs to rise to the occasion against the best competition. It's a theme over the past couple of seasons. He looks great against below average defenses, and sometimes against average defenses, but hasn't shown he can elevate his game and his teammates against the better defenses. The overthrow to Waller as Sy pointed out is a part of this narrative.
I liken him to a B-version of Cousins. At this point, you know Cousins isn't going to be the guy that can turn it up and win you a Super Bowl against a great defense. He'll look like a world beater against weak playoff teams or non-playoff teams, and fold completely against superior competition.
The Giants will be spinning their wheels until they find a guy that can or until DJ shows he can elevate his game and make big plays against those teams.
They have to start treating Hyatt as their primary receiver. None of the other guys have the capability to become that, but Hyatt can. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but you have to give him that shot, because he is the X-factor that can scare teams.
Last thing, they have to consider that Parris Campbell and Wan'Dale on the field is not the best version of this offense. Given what this team's strengths are, mainly, making plays with the Quarterback's legs and utilizing his deep ball accuracy, it would seem to me that the best version of this offense includes a lot more Bellinger on the field in 12 personnel, with speed on the outside (Hyatt & Slayton).
Please list all the QBs who can lift their game and those around them against the best teams in the league without at least an average offensive line? What QB can make effective throws downfield when they routinely have less than 2 seconds to set up and throw?
And Campbell and Robinson will be the best offense to have on the field until the O line can give the QB at least 2 seconds. They are the receivers who can get quick separation. Thomas will help with that. Maybe Ezuedu instead of LeMieux helps that.
I don't think people really understand how badly that inexperienced O line was overmatched against San Fran. Actually, considering who was playing, they didn't do that badly. But it greatly limited what the offense could do, and what plays could be called. SF knew that, which gave their D a huge edge.
And when the offense can't stay on the field it compounds the struggles of the defense because they are on the field more.
There are a lot of plays he has more than 2 seconds. His movement in the pocket, making off-schedule throws accurately, shit, even on-schedule throws accuracy has been off. You can keep explaining away what we keep seeing ad nauseum, he hasn't shown to be good enough when it counts. No, you're not going to make every play no matter who you are, but 2 or 3 in a game often makes the difference, and he is not making any of them.
Couple other comments:
- The use of Parris Campbell as an underneath possession outlet has to be one of the weirder things I’ve seen out of this coaching staff. Doesn’t Campbell have sub 4.4 speed? I think he’s miscast and not playing the role well.
- Jim’s comments about Jones mirror Sy’s game review. Both are close to throwing in the towel on Jones. It’s not that he sucks. It’s that he’s middling and lays eggs with regularity. I’d say the next 5-6 games are another extremely important stretch for Jones’ career. We’re playing some good but not great defenses. Jones has to consistently deliver solid play in that stretch. If he doesn’t, Schoen as the GM will almost be forced to start scouting college QBs with an eye to replace DJ.
Couple other comments:
- The use of Parris Campbell as an underneath possession outlet has to be one of the weirder things I’ve seen out of this coaching staff. Doesn’t Campbell have sub 4.4 speed? I think he’s miscast and not playing the role well.
- Jim’s comments about Jones mirror Sy’s game review. Both are close to throwing in the towel on Jones. It’s not that he sucks. It’s that he’s middling and lays eggs with regularity. I’d say the next 5-6 games are another extremely important stretch for Jones’ career. We’re playing some good but not great defenses. Jones has to consistently deliver solid play in that stretch. If he doesn’t, Schoen as the GM will almost be forced to start scouting college QBs with an eye to replace DJ.
You can't use his, or Hyatt's speed if you don't have time. Campbell and Robinson are the two guys who are best at getting separation quickly. They knew they could not rely on plays against SF that take time to develop downfield.
We can win consistently with Jones if we put him in a position to do it and we’re close. The Defense also needs major help. Schoen has his work cut out for him next year.
Why are people so intent on proving that our QB didn't "lose" us the game instead of asking the more important question of why don't strive to have a QB that we feel gives us a chance in any game?
These comments echo something that I've said more than a few times. Jones looks like he too often is playing not to screw up, not to lose than going for the win and doing so with confidence.
Doesn't mean he doesn't have that in him, he clearly does. It just is out there less consistently than any "franchise" QB I've ever seen.