for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Do you think some of the shine is wearing off?

Blackmax00 : 9/23/2023 5:54 pm
I'm not abandoning ship. The seasons early and injuries and poor line play have killed us. I said last year they won alot of games wsmoke and mirrors. Now this year there's more talent but it seems that it isn't being utilized. Yeah Jones has a bad line but they run block well yet we always are pass heavy or design rollouts. So I ask is daboll beginning to be exposed as just a good coach with poor talent or something else?
Let’s table this one til January.  
FatHeadTommy : 9/23/2023 5:57 pm : link
I am not ready to give up on this coach or this team.
We need help  
TinVA : 9/23/2023 6:01 pm : link
This team is not producing and could use some help, a spark, something. Coaching is definitely suspect at this point, but I also think the team should consider signing Pugh and a best available RB. It sounds like SB may be out longer than originally expected with news that his injury is a high ankle sprain.
JS  
Hilary : 9/23/2023 6:03 pm : link
It is very hard to know how coaching decisions affect the game but the shine may soon be off the. GM as the 2022 draft and free agent acquisitions are not looking great.
RE: We need help  
NorcalNYG : 9/23/2023 6:04 pm : link
In comment 16218910 TinVA said:
Quote:
This team is not producing and could use some help, a spark, something. Coaching is definitely suspect at this point, but I also think the team should consider signing Pugh and a best available RB. It sounds like SB may be out longer than originally expected with news that his injury is a high ankle sprain.


Pugh would be good at the right price, but there is no rb to be signed that would be an upgrade to Breida n Brightwell.
As tough a time  
lecky : 9/23/2023 6:10 pm : link
as the team is having I think the coach is having just as tough a time. Not sure if he has been flustered with this start and the fact they miscalculated how bad this O-Line is or last year was smoke and mirrors. Either way I have yet to see some of the fire I did see last year from the coach or the players. And I know it was Dallas and San Francisco but to be so overmatched can not be a good feeling for coaches or players
As tough a time  
TinVA : 9/23/2023 6:19 pm : link
True^
This Is A 3 Year Fix  
Trainmaster : 9/23/2023 6:31 pm : link
Year 1 greatly exceeded expectations, leading to heightened / unrealistic expectations for year 2. Never judge a season after 3 games.

After 6 games, we’ll have a better idea of how long the rebuild will take. A 1 - 5 record likely means last year was an aberration. 3 - 3 means we can beat quality teams in 2023.

We’ll probably be 2 - 4 which means we won’t really know yet.

RE: This Is A 3 Year Fix  
lecky : 9/23/2023 6:49 pm : link
In comment 16218929 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Year 1 greatly exceeded expectations, leading to heightened / unrealistic expectations for year 2. Never judge a season after 3 games.

After 6 games, we’ll have a better idea of how long the rebuild will take. A 1 - 5 record likely means last year was an aberration. 3 - 3 means we can beat quality teams in 2023.

We’ll probably be 2 - 4 which means we won’t really know yet.


Not so sure how you figure 3 years? What is it based on? What player on this team has shown they could even start on any of the top tier teams? At any position. What player has left this team to be a superstar anywhere else?
every thread like this  
ElitoCanton : 9/23/2023 7:08 pm : link
makes me ask how dumb this fan base is. The Giants were the complete laughing stock of football. It's gonna take more than a year and a half to turn from that into Super Bowl contenders.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/23/2023 7:10 pm : link
Just beat Seattle on MNF. And let's go from there.
I've said this a few times this week but we need patience.  
j_rud : 9/23/2023 7:16 pm : link
We want to make definitive statements about both players and team with every new data point. We're charting stock prices by the minute and arguing if someone disagrees. It just seems silly. We know Daboll can coach. We know there's some talent on the roster. There's been a lot of turnover, young guys at key positions, young guys still figuring it out, they're trying to do new things on offense, there are injuries at key spots and they just got done navigating a 2 week road trip.

Those are objective facts, not excuses or rationalizations, and make for a challenging start. If someone wants to make statements about "the shine" or the team based on less than a month of the season that's their call.
jrud.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/23/2023 7:19 pm : link
Perhaps its the beer talking, but I think we're going to look much sharper vs. Seattle. This time off between TNF & MNF could be a great break for the team to reset.
Agree that patience is needed  
newjerseygiants : 9/23/2023 7:35 pm : link
Team is young and schedule is tough. Anything north of .500 this year is a plus
Remember when Brian Daboll was first hired....  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/23/2023 7:36 pm : link
He said in some of first speeches to the NYC Sports media that the team is a work in progress. He also said that they were going to experience tough times as well as good times together. He predicted how they are in this season last year.
The way last season went was better than expected, and the fact that the team was able to experience the playoffs that soon was a huge tease to the fan base.
This season is the true reality of where they are as a team.
Even though Daniel Jones signed to a huge contract for a number of years, he still has to prove himself. He has several targets on the field now that he didn't before, but the ever-futile OL is still hurting this team's chances.
Joe Schoen and Brandon Brown have done a fine job of shuffling around the contracts to fit players into the salary-cap stifle this franchise has been in for a great number of years, and they're still struggling to make it work.
The shine is definitely not off as far as I see it. I am a 66 year old lifetime fan of the NY Football Giants, and I still have faith that the coaching staff and the management staff will make this work.
The schedule has also been quite tough for the team. Too many national televised games SNF-TNF, and the next game will be MNF. Enough with the spotlight on our team NFL! As the original staff of SNL were once called "the not ready for prime time players" that's who the current Giants are!
RE: Not so sure how you figure 3 years?  
Trainmaster : 9/23/2023 7:45 pm : link
I’m saying likely at least 3 years.

It will take into the third year to get out from under the salary cap mess Gettleman left the franchise after in.

This was not an average to above average roster that needed a much better head coach (see Harbaugh taking over from Singletary).



The Giants are 1-2  
Sean : 9/23/2023 7:53 pm : link
It's not all bad. I agree with j_rud, it'll take time. The defense missed opportunities for multiple interceptions that Purdy handed to them. Despite the poor tackling and lack of 3rd down execution, the defense still made some nice goal line stands.

You can take some positives from the SF game. Plenty of season left. Beat Seattle.
Jesus Christ  
exiled : 9/23/2023 7:54 pm : link
I know we’re jaded. But three games in? Exactly how many teams have you watched go from 4 wins to legit contenders in a season?

Just, enough, you guys. Chill.
Is it coaching when a WR or TE runs a 4 yard route when they need 6  
Jack Stroud : 9/23/2023 7:59 pm : link
or is it bad judgement by the player? Is it coaching when an opposing team has stacked the middle of their defense and the Giants continue to run up the middle? Is it coaching when the Giants receivers are covered so close it is like they are wearing another skin? Is it coaching when on many occasion opposing receivers are so open it is like they are in a different zip code? Is it coaching when the qb was less than 2 seconds to throw the ball? I don't know the answer, all I know is we continue to see the same failures every week, something has to change.
Not at this point  
joe48 : 9/23/2023 8:11 pm : link
People who had high expectations for this team were saying we had worst talent in the league before our season started last year. Now they are upset. Go figure.
There are many good objective comments here  
dlauster : 9/23/2023 8:12 pm : link
The only thing that has me scared at this point is not losing…it’s the losing uncompetitively. Id feel better if we were 10 to 13 point dogs against the best of the NFC, not 20 to 40.

Time will tell. 14 games to go.
RE: RE: We need help  
Red Right Hand : 9/23/2023 9:30 pm : link
In comment 16218914 NorcalNYG said:
Quote:
In comment 16218910 TinVA said:


Quote:


This team is not producing and could use some help, a spark, something. Coaching is definitely suspect at this point, but I also think the team should consider signing Pugh and a best available RB. It sounds like SB may be out longer than originally expected with news that his injury is a high ankle sprain.



Pugh would be good at the right price, but there is no rb to be signed that would be an upgrade to Breida n Brightwell.
That can't possibly be true. I heard it over and over on BBI that good RBs are a dime a dozen.
RE: This Is A 3 Year Fix  
Red Right Hand : 9/23/2023 9:31 pm : link
In comment 16218929 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Year 1 greatly exceeded expectations, leading to heightened / unrealistic expectations for year 2. Never judge a season after 3 games.

After 6 games, we’ll have a better idea of how long the rebuild will take. A 1 - 5 record likely means last year was an aberration. 3 - 3 means we can beat quality teams in 2023.

We’ll probably be 2 - 4 which means we won’t really know yet.
If you think the passage of time means we somehow get better because of it, you may be in for a rude awakeing.
RE: jrud.  
Red Right Hand : 9/23/2023 9:33 pm : link
In comment 16218954 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Perhaps its the beer talking, but I think we're going to look much sharper vs. Seattle. This time off between TNF & MNF could be a great break for the team to reset.
Doubt it, we have to have one of the worst MNF records of all time.
I’m not giving up on Daboll/Shoen  
cjac : 9/23/2023 10:04 pm : link
I’m almost done with Jones though

Don’t you think the new coach/GM should go out and get their QB instead of the overdrafted guy they inherited?
RE: I’m not giving up on Daboll/Shoen  
BestFeature : 9/23/2023 11:30 pm : link
In comment 16219074 cjac said:
Quote:
I’m almost done with Jones though

Don’t you think the new coach/GM should go out and get their QB instead of the overdrafted guy they inherited?


Being almost done with Jones is insane considering the situation he's in. Whe. He had time and open receivers he put up 31 points in a half. No QB in the league can perform well with what surrounded him against Dallas and SF.
To answer the question  
Dave in PA : 9/23/2023 11:31 pm : link
Yes without a doubt the National and local narrative is that this team
Is underachieving and whatever magic carpet ride they were on last year has completely unraveled. The truth invariably rests somewhere in between the extremes. The “shine” started taking a hit after the humiliation in the divisional round. It was nearly completely wiped off after the Dallas debacle. There’s still time to get shiny again, but it feels like the mood is firmly back in the 2012 - 2021 era of hopelessness rather than the real fresh air of optimism we had in the first half of last season. Fair or not, doesn’t really matter.
RE: To answer the question  
NorcalNYG : 9/24/2023 12:40 am : link
In comment 16219188 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Yes without a doubt the National and local narrative is that this team
Is underachieving and whatever magic carpet ride they were on last year has completely unraveled. The truth invariably rests somewhere in between the extremes. The “shine” started taking a hit after the humiliation in the divisional round. It was nearly completely wiped off after the Dallas debacle. There’s still time to get shiny again, but it feels like the mood is firmly back in the 2012 - 2021 era of hopelessness rather than the real fresh air of optimism we had in the first half of last season. Fair or not, doesn’t really matter.


Agreed, 2 wins in a row would completely reverse the coarse though. I know that's a lot to ask right now, I'm share the perspective that the game against the Seahawks is imperative to win if we wanna be competitive this season. We lose to the Seahawks, then we lose to the Bills and Dolphins and I think we'd be sitting at 1-4. I think if we beat the Seahawks then we find a way to beat the Bills and probably lose to the Phins to sit at 3-3. Then the schedule eases up. Even if we only win the Seahawks game and we sit at 2-4 then it still isn't over, but losing to the Seahawks puts us in an extremely tough spot.
RE: I’m not giving up on Daboll/Shoen  
Sean : 9/24/2023 5:25 am : link
In comment 16219074 cjac said:
Quote:
I’m almost done with Jones though

Don’t you think the new coach/GM should go out and get their QB instead of the overdrafted guy they inherited?

I agree with this. Especially when you consider what Daboll has done for Allen and Jones. I was surprised at how many people said Daboll shouldn't get the chance to bring in his own QB if he doesn't win with Jones.
RE: This Is A 3 Year Fix  
OX100 : 9/24/2023 6:07 am : link
In comment 16218929 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Year 1 greatly exceeded expectations, leading to heightened / unrealistic expectations for year


3 years min, and that is only if you picked an outstanding GM and coach, on maybe the first "real" try at doing it "right", in 10 years. Odds are very low that both this GM and coach will be excellent.
Holy crap  
AnnapolisMike : 9/24/2023 6:21 am : link
This team was always going to be 1-2 at this point in the season. Year two of a rebuild and we expect to roll through a season without issues?

If we are sitting at 1-6 in a few weeks...then yes. We can starting having this conversation.
certainly not giving up on this team or staff  
mfjmfj : 9/24/2023 6:37 am : link
but the coaching has been piss poor so far this year. There is no talent differential as large as the play difference between Dallas and NYG on opening night. The team was unprepared. Talent or no talent that is on the coach. The OL being as bad as it is is partly on coaching. Not enough play time in preseason especially as a unit. The defense has struggled numerous times with guys out of position. That is coaching.

Not giving up, but a honest assessment of the job done by our coaching staff this year is somewhere between an F and a C-. Only Daboll's second year as a head coach. Mistakes happen. Coughlin made significant changes in style after being a head coach for close to a decade. Let's not give up, but let's be honest.
RE: Is it coaching when a WR or TE runs a 4 yard route when they need 6  
mfjmfj : 9/24/2023 6:44 am : link
In comment 16218970 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
or is it bad judgement by the player? Is it coaching when an opposing team has stacked the middle of their defense and the Giants continue to run up the middle? Is it coaching when the Giants receivers are covered so close it is like they are wearing another skin? Is it coaching when on many occasion opposing receivers are so open it is like they are in a different zip code? Is it coaching when the qb was less than 2 seconds to throw the ball? I don't know the answer, all I know is we continue to see the same failures every week, something has to change.


The answer to all of those questions is yes. If it happens repeatedly it is coaching (except maybe question three which could be pure talent difference). As an example when you see a player open by a couple of feet that is usually talent/good play by offense. When they are wide open it is always a scheme problem or a player mistake. Both of those are coaching problems if they happen with any frequency.
I think everyone needs to relax a bit  
Bleedblue10 : 9/24/2023 8:06 am : link
Football is a game of matchups. We played 2 of the best teams in the NFL and it just so happens that their biggest strengths are our biggest weaknesses. That’s why it looks like we got exposed. Other than Philly those are probably the 2 best teams we will see all year. Our offense basically had one hand tied behind its back with the o line we trotted out there against the niners.
I think the Seattle game  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/24/2023 8:21 am : link
is critical and it is fair to question some of the coaching and decision making by the front office. It is early so they can turn it around.

I was not as high on this regime as some when they were hired.

Last year it was the running game that led to a solid season and it seems the emphasis in the offseason and what has played out on the field is a pass heavy offense. Against your better D's this is a tough way to play on offense imv.

Always seems you will have that QB guru group who likes to put it all on Jones.
RE: RE: I’m not giving up on Daboll/Shoen  
OBJRoyal : 9/24/2023 8:39 am : link
In comment 16219187 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 16219074 cjac said:


Quote:


I’m almost done with Jones though

Don’t you think the new coach/GM should go out and get their QB instead of the overdrafted guy they inherited?



Being almost done with Jones is insane considering the situation he's in. Whe. He had time and open receivers he put up 31 points in a half. No QB in the league can perform well with what surrounded him against Dallas and SF.


Jones put up 31 points against a team trying to tank. do it against a decent team, then we can talk.
RE: Holy crap  
HBart : 9/24/2023 8:52 am : link
In comment 16219222 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
This team was always going to be 1-2 at this point in the season. Year two of a rebuild and we expect to roll through a season without issues?

If we are sitting at 1-6 in a few weeks...then yes. We can starting having this conversation.

Exactly. It's mind-boggling. Fire these fucks now because they lost to the 49ers. The sky is fucking falling because the 49ers pulled away in the fourth quarter ..... they got every fucking break in the book and the best playmakers in football made some plays while we didn't with a comical OL on a short week with Barkley out. We did damn well not to be blown out by halftime. Cue the holier than thou's ,,,,, ewwww, that's loser talk. Only winning matters.

It doesn't work that way. Only one team wins and it's usually the one with better players on the field. Once the OL was announced there was probably a prop bet on Jones not walking off the field -- with a negative money line
RE: Is it coaching when a WR or TE runs a 4 yard route when they need 6  
k2tampa : 9/24/2023 8:55 am : link
In comment 16218970 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
or is it bad judgement by the player? Is it coaching when an opposing team has stacked the middle of their defense and the Giants continue to run up the middle? Is it coaching when the Giants receivers are covered so close it is like they are wearing another skin? Is it coaching when on many occasion opposing receivers are so open it is like they are in a different zip code? Is it coaching when the qb was less than 2 seconds to throw the ball? I don't know the answer, all I know is we continue to see the same failures every week, something has to change.


Depends on whether the play called involves a 4 yard route that expects the receiver to be able to get a few yards after the catch, like San Fran did at least three times on third and more than 10. :)
RE: RE: RE: I’m not giving up on Daboll/Shoen  
k2tampa : 9/24/2023 9:07 am : link
In comment 16219251 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 16219187 BestFeature said:


Quote:


In comment 16219074 cjac said:


Quote:


I’m almost done with Jones though

Don’t you think the new coach/GM should go out and get their QB instead of the overdrafted guy they inherited?



Being almost done with Jones is insane considering the situation he's in. Whe. He had time and open receivers he put up 31 points in a half. No QB in the league can perform well with what surrounded him against Dallas and SF.



Jones put up 31 points against a team trying to tank. do it against a decent team, then we can talk.


This team playing to tank stuff is hilarious. Watch how the Cards' defense was hitting and tell me again how the team is trying to tank. Players don't tank because if they play like crap they might be out of the league next year.

Management might not have done all they could to strengthen the team, but the players have to perform or they are unemployed.

People will say they gave up Simmons for a 7. They must be tanking. I haven't seen anything from Simmons to show he was worth more than a 7. He is what I saw a Clemson. A guy who can make big plays freelancing but who shies away from contact and is weak at the point of attack. He is a guy who doesn't like contact. He makes the vast majority of his plays when he is running free. He can't shed blocks and rarely squares up and delivers a big hit on the ball carrier. Was he worth a 7, yeah, but trading him was not a sign the Cards are tanking.
it’s not just a 1-2 record  
The Jake : 9/24/2023 9:07 am : link
it’s also the fact that we’ve been utterly dominated and embarrassed for 5 out of the 6 halves we’ve played this season.

the roster is simply so far behind that the coaches can’t do much about it.

last year was lightning in a bottle. it’s not replicable.
RE: RE: RE: I’m not giving up on Daboll/Shoen  
JFIB : 9/24/2023 6:18 pm : link
In comment 16219251 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 16219187 BestFeature said:


Quote:


In comment 16219074 cjac said:


Quote:


I’m almost done with Jones though

Don’t you think the new coach/GM should go out and get their QB instead of the overdrafted guy they inherited?



Being almost done with Jones is insane considering the situation he's in. Whe. He had time and open receivers he put up 31 points in a half. No QB in the league can perform well with what surrounded him against Dallas and SF.



Jones put up 31 points against a team trying to tank. do it against a decent team, then we can talk.


Trying to tank? That’s ridiculous! Does it look like they’re trying to tank against Dallas right now? Nobody tries to tank in this league.
Not really sure about Dabol.  
Crispino : 9/25/2023 9:56 am : link
It’s certainly not his fault the organization has no idea how to identify offensive line personnel, or to find guys who can create pressure on the QB.
Many here  
JonC : 9/25/2023 10:00 am : link
had and still carry expectations of the 2023 which were too high to begin with.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/25/2023 10:02 am : link
Let’s revisit this after Seattle.
Giants could be 2-6 at mid-season  
JonC : 9/25/2023 10:06 am : link
It's still only Year 2 for the Schoen Reign.

NFL rosters change by the day, players get injured, old, the heart to play the game fades. Rosters aren't static, it takes time to build a talent foundation and also a pipeline to continue feeding it.
It is amazing how few people realize just how much last year  
BigBlue7 : 9/25/2023 10:20 am : link
was an overachievement.

I think it really created unrealistic expectations for 2024 - especially considering our roster talent is still middle of the pack at best.

RE: Many here  
BigBlue7 : 9/25/2023 10:20 am : link
In comment 16220677 JonC said:
Quote:
had and still carry expectations of the 2023 which were too high to begin with.


Bingo
RE: Many here  
HBart : 9/25/2023 10:40 am : link
In comment 16220677 JonC said:
Quote:
had and still carry expectations of the 2023 which were too high to begin with.

The overreactions on BBI do get comical.

Week one was a shit show - a game that started alarmingly poorly and snowballed out of control. That can happen any time - it's a lot less worrisome when it happens week one.

Week two we learned what the Skins and Cowboys did - Arizona isn't a pushover. The Cowboys couldn't overcome mostly because their OL was a sieve because 3 starters were out. Yup. Our OL situation was far worse and we did overcome it.

Week three is the ink blot test. I saw a team with a bailing wire OL and huge developed talent deficit match the 49ers home opener intensity early, hang in there despite a surplus of bad breaks, and then ran out of gas. I came away encouraged.

I think we play a 3-phase game next Monday for the first time. I also think we win, but we all know Seattle can beat any one on any day (and we can too). Others here want the coach fired after 12 quarters and 2 losses We'll get to see who's closer to right.
Back to the Corner