do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Jones is being paid like a top 10 QB but when you zoom out beyond individual games he hasn’t earned that by any stretch as a passer.
And I’m not sure how people would not be embarrassed to have an opposing team say your teams QB was afraid to throw the ball. He looked that way so it isn’t shocking to hear that.
Yeah that isn’t the most common refrain… or sight…
I didn't want Engram back--but why is he better under Lawrence than Jones? Why did Barkley's receiving numbers crash with Jones as QB when compared to a cooked Eli Manning?
I think the answer is that Jones is just not a prolific passer. It doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well. But I think elite passing production is the most critical factor to winning championships.
I’ve watched bits and pieces of Engram with JAX. They use him a bunch on TE screens, leaks to the flat, designed plays to get him in space where he can use him ample athleticism and speed to pick up yards. Not much over the middle in traffic, which as we all unfortunately recall, was not his strong suit.
RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
You are making my point thanks. I meant specifically for Engram not sure if that is him but either way that is my point. You play with Jones who has been plagued by holding the ball too long and confidence issues you are going to play tighter and drop more balls. Than Eli, “ice in his veins” manning.
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
RE: RE: RE: RE: There is some real unintentional comedy here
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
I'm just saying that you're a DJ fan above being a Giants fan. You're willing to blame other Giants for DJ's shortcomings but not place any responsibility on DJ himself.
We can have legitimate debates re Jones, but to put the blame on him for Engram having an absurd drop rate is just ridiculous. And then to further offer up the opinion, that (1) DJ lacks confident, and (2) that lack of confidence is what caused Engram's problems is just absurd. There is just no support for either, and, in fact, it's just nonsensical.
BTW, Engram had 11 drops as a rookie with Eli as his QB.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
No worries. We all want the Giants to win football games.
I believe you used to post on BBWC back in the day. I used to be there also, but I hustled over here in Jan 2004 where the rumor was we were gonna swing a trade to get Eli. Never left here since then. If I have the wrong GatoradeDunk, I apologize. But my name on BBWC was something like VegasPete, and so when I came here, I went with the sarcastic PetesHereNow. Are you the same fella?
Has anyone seen Strouds numbers with just as bad as an offensive line as DJ and a well below average WR corp?
Are we going to ignore th quality of his opponents? Ravens have a poor pass rush, the Colts are te Colts, the Jaguars are a decent defense but certainly not the Cowboys or the Niners. And btw about 60 yards Stroud's passing yards Sunday were the result of a busted play where there was not a defender within 20 yards of the receiver
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
No worries. We all want the Giants to win football games.
I believe you used to post on BBWC back in the day. I used to be there also, but I hustled over here in Jan 2004 where the rumor was we were gonna swing a trade to get Eli. Never left here since then. If I have the wrong GatoradeDunk, I apologize. But my name on BBWC was something like VegasPete, and so when I came here, I went with the sarcastic PetesHereNow. Are you the same fella?
I am indeed the same fella, but with quite a few more grays since my BBWC era (if TSwift can have eras, so can I).
offense did with their patchwork OL Sunday. One of the top RBs, one of the top WRs, good complimentary receivers, good QB, and scored a grand total of 18 points against the Cardinals.
The reality is that the vast majortiy of offenses cannot function without decent pass blocking. There are 2 maybe 3 QBs that cannot overcome it. But against the Comboys and the Niners, the OL made it essentially impossible to function.
With the same posters just in different threads… it’s the same old song…
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
Do you really think it takes years to see the same people say the same things in each thread? I bet there have been 15-20 threads since the start of the season where you and a few others have said the same thing kver and over and over again.
It’s really easy to see. Sorry if this upsets you.
Dave Brown looked like he was going to cement George Young’ status as a genius. He played fairly basic ball control football and I believe we were 3-0 going into New Orleans.
Then he threw a pick 6 before halftime and the world realized if you got to him, his game went to hell.
With the same posters just in different threads… it’s the same old song…
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
Do you really think it takes years to see the same people say the same things in each thread? I bet there have been 15-20 threads since the start of the season where you and a few others have said the same thing kver and over and over again.
It’s really easy to see. Sorry if this upsets you.
Yeah, whatever. What's your previous handle?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
No worries. We all want the Giants to win football games.
I believe you used to post on BBWC back in the day. I used to be there also, but I hustled over here in Jan 2004 where the rumor was we were gonna swing a trade to get Eli. Never left here since then. If I have the wrong GatoradeDunk, I apologize. But my name on BBWC was something like VegasPete, and so when I came here, I went with the sarcastic PetesHereNow. Are you the same fella?
I am indeed the same fella, but with quite a few more grays since my BBWC era (if TSwift can have eras, so can I).
Cheers brother. My apologies on my tone as well. I’m from Jersey, you know how it is. I hear you on those grays. The wife says they make me look distinguished but I think she’s full of it ;)
Good one. I was posting on that thread when he said that. Sorry, no previous handles. Sorry to disappoint. I have more important things in life to worry about than what you think. I am trying to outlast my doctor’s predictions of having 6-8 months to live. I have other priorities than trying to be right on a message board.
Is your Dave Brown story conveying a concern that DCs have figured out Jones? I’ve been concerned that his running and roll outs are being contained more than last season. That’s based on my viewing, not stats.
Is your Dave Brown story conveying a concern that DCs have figured out Jones? I’ve been concerned that his running and roll outs are being contained more than last season. That’s based on my viewing, not stats.
Partly, I think DC’s like Quinn and the SF DC are telling their guys “don’t bite on the play action”, just get to Jones as fast as you can. Their OL is struggling so let’s make them drive 10 plays to score. 3-5 yard runs aren’t gonna kill them because eventually there will be a penalty or a sack or a negative play.
I don’t know the numbers and it’s a small sample size but it seems like we suck on plays that are behind the sticks. In other words, 1st and 15, 1st and 20, 2nd and 15, and so on. If the defense can just hunt Jones and not have to worry about a screen or a draw, it’s not pretty.
Would love to see Kafka adapt and come out with either heavy run script next week or work in the draw/screen game much more. Think we also have to get Hyatt in the game, send him deep. Even as a decoy, his speed must be respected. Let’s let Jones get into the rhythm he got into in the 2H vs. Zona.
I still wish someone had late hit him after his antics with the phone @ the end of the Giants Eagles '08 divisional game. I wanted to jump through the screen & kick his ass.
Ball out and wreck Seattle. The narrative will change…. for a week.
Yep. It's a simple as that. Jones needs to have big games with a stand-alone audience. He had a great game in Minnesota for a playoff win, but not many people respected that Vikings team, especially the defense. Now they are 0-3.
Start beating Dallas, Philly, etc. and the narrative will change. Win a shootout against Miami. The narrative will change.
It'll change for a week if we beat Seattle. Then, if we lose to the 'Fins & Jones looks blah or worse, people will be bashing him again.
The amount of shit this kid takes from the national media is absurd. Yes, he's no Mahomes or Allen. But he's not some dude either. He's a middle tier QB. But people see the coin he got @ the likely expense of #26...& there we go.
DJ is going to need an entire season of plus performances to change the optics on him and in the mean time he will tune the noise out like he’s had to for 4+ years.
RE: RE: RE: I know we hate Mcnabb because he’s an Eagle
But if Jones became even 75% of Mcnabb that would be fantastic
No, this is all wrong.
75% of McNabb? Really? McNabb's issues were always completion % and winning in the playoffs.
If Jones only reached 75% of McNabb, his current completion % would already be above the number...and NO Giant fan is going to accept losing in the playoffs time and time again as the favorite.
Completely different era of football, and taking that quite too literal. How many NFC championship games did Mcnabb make?
Ok, fair. However, can you define what the 75% McNabb is that you would find to be "fantastic?"
The amount of shit this kid takes from the national media is absurd. Yes, he's no Mahomes or Allen. But he's not some dude either. He's a middle tier QB. But people see the coin he got @ the likely expense of #26...& there we go.
Is it? Look at the incessant hammering Mayfield has taken in the media. Darnold, former QB in NY, has been kicked around like a tin can. Goff was a pinata, especially after his hideous SB performance and eventual trade to Detroit.
I could go on and on. But the criticism that Jones takes is not unusual at al vis-a-vis other highly selected QBs.
As many mentioned, Jones controls his fate. Play consistently better and the cacophony of criticism fades.
Jones is being paid like a top 10 QB but when you zoom out beyond individual games he hasn’t earned that by any stretch as a passer.
And I’m not sure how people would not be embarrassed to have an opposing team say your teams QB was afraid to throw the ball. He looked that way so it isn’t shocking to hear that.
Yeah that isn’t the most common refrain… or sight…
Just an aside here, can someone tell me when it became fashionable for other players to criticize those in the same profession, especially when they were no super stars themselves. This was never heard of years ago. This kid is taking an enormous, unwarranted beating by other players, so called TV experts and even some Giant fans. Then is expected to go out and play flawlessly.
DJ is going to need an entire season of plus performances to change the optics on him and in the mean time he will tune the noise out like he’s had to for 4+ years.
There's no shutting up IDIOTS!!! Stupid is stupid. They'll never go away..
has way more talent then Jones, he was talked about being the number 1 pick for months... because he is very talented. Jones barely sniffed talks of being in the top 10. Does that mean Jones can't and won't become a better QB then Stroud? Who knows, only time will tell. But for being a rookie, Stroud is playing very well
has way more talent then Jones, he was talked about being the number 1 pick for months... because he is very talented. Jones barely sniffed talks of being in the top 10. Does that mean Jones can't and won't become a better QB then Stroud? Who knows, only time will tell. But for being a rookie, Stroud is playing very well
I've seen bits and pieces of Stroud's games, and he looks very poised. He had an outstanding QBR in the win in Jax yesterday.
Anyone who thinks Jones is above criticism at this point...
I don't know what you're watching. They clearly have a number of issues and Jones is not at the top. But, for 2.5 games, he is certainly among them. Even including the great playoff performance last year, Jones has 1 half of football where he showed he can put a team on his back and win with his arm over the last couple of years. Last year was a very nice bounce back season in a prove it year. But, he "proved" it with his legs and a heavy dose of Barkley.
RE: Anyone who thinks Jones is above criticism at this point...
I don't know what you're watching. They clearly have a number of issues and Jones is not at the top. But, for 2.5 games, he is certainly among them. Even including the great playoff performance last year, Jones has 1 half of football where he showed he can put a team on his back and win with his arm over the last couple of years. Last year was a very nice bounce back season in a prove it year. But, he "proved" it with his legs and a heavy dose of Barkley.
I haven't seen anyone say Jones is above criticism. He certainly is not. This whole team deserves criticism right now, including upstream of the players. It's not a good product right they are putting out on the field right now.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4.
Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Quote:
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Jones is being paid like a top 10 QB but when you zoom out beyond individual games he hasn’t earned that by any stretch as a passer.
And I’m not sure how people would not be embarrassed to have an opposing team say your teams QB was afraid to throw the ball. He looked that way so it isn’t shocking to hear that.
Yeah that isn’t the most common refrain… or sight…
I think the answer is that Jones is just not a prolific passer. It doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well. But I think elite passing production is the most critical factor to winning championships.
I’ve watched bits and pieces of Engram with JAX. They use him a bunch on TE screens, leaks to the flat, designed plays to get him in space where he can use him ample athleticism and speed to pick up yards. Not much over the middle in traffic, which as we all unfortunately recall, was not his strong suit.
Quote:
.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
You are making my point thanks. I meant specifically for Engram not sure if that is him but either way that is my point. You play with Jones who has been plagued by holding the ball too long and confidence issues you are going to play tighter and drop more balls. Than Eli, “ice in his veins” manning.
2019: 4.4%
2020: 10.1%
2021: 8.2%
2022: 5.1%
2023: 4.8%
Saqoun:
2018: 3.3%
2019: 5.5%
2020: 11.1%
2021: 10.5%
2022: 7.9%
Quote:
In comment 16221166 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
Quote:
.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
Quote:
In comment 16221171 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 16221166 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
I'm just saying that you're a DJ fan above being a Giants fan. You're willing to blame other Giants for DJ's shortcomings but not place any responsibility on DJ himself.
This is exactly what gave rise to the DJFC.
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
BTW, Engram had 11 drops as a rookie with Eli as his QB.
Engram last year with Jax - 98 targets 73 catches 766 yards 4 tds
Engram through 20 games with Jax - 119 targets 91 catches 939 yards 4td
Engram's drops - 2019 03
2020 11
2021 06
2022 05 (Jax)
Quote:
With the same posters just in different threads… it’s the same old song…
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
I love when dupes out themselves.
Quote:
In comment 16221174 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Quote:
In comment 16221184 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221174 NoGainDayne said:
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How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
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In comment 16221196 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16221184 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221174 NoGainDayne said:
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How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
No worries. We all want the Giants to win football games.
I believe you used to post on BBWC back in the day. I used to be there also, but I hustled over here in Jan 2004 where the rumor was we were gonna swing a trade to get Eli. Never left here since then. If I have the wrong GatoradeDunk, I apologize. But my name on BBWC was something like VegasPete, and so when I came here, I went with the sarcastic PetesHereNow. Are you the same fella?
Are we going to ignore th quality of his opponents? Ravens have a poor pass rush, the Colts are te Colts, the Jaguars are a decent defense but certainly not the Cowboys or the Niners. And btw about 60 yards Stroud's passing yards Sunday were the result of a busted play where there was not a defender within 20 yards of the receiver
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In comment 16221207 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221196 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16221184 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221174 NoGainDayne said:
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.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
No worries. We all want the Giants to win football games.
I believe you used to post on BBWC back in the day. I used to be there also, but I hustled over here in Jan 2004 where the rumor was we were gonna swing a trade to get Eli. Never left here since then. If I have the wrong GatoradeDunk, I apologize. But my name on BBWC was something like VegasPete, and so when I came here, I went with the sarcastic PetesHereNow. Are you the same fella?
I am indeed the same fella, but with quite a few more grays since my BBWC era (if TSwift can have eras, so can I).
The reality is that the vast majortiy of offenses cannot function without decent pass blocking. There are 2 maybe 3 QBs that cannot overcome it. But against the Comboys and the Niners, the OL made it essentially impossible to function.
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With the same posters just in different threads… it’s the same old song…
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
Do you really think it takes years to see the same people say the same things in each thread? I bet there have been 15-20 threads since the start of the season where you and a few others have said the same thing kver and over and over again.
It’s really easy to see. Sorry if this upsets you.
But again, sounds like there aren’t similar standards for Jones and other QBs.
Then he threw a pick 6 before halftime and the world realized if you got to him, his game went to hell.
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In comment 16221192 JT039 said:
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With the same posters just in different threads… it’s the same old song…
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
Do you really think it takes years to see the same people say the same things in each thread? I bet there have been 15-20 threads since the start of the season where you and a few others have said the same thing kver and over and over again.
It’s really easy to see. Sorry if this upsets you.
Yeah, whatever. What's your previous handle?
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In comment 16221218 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16221207 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221196 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16221184 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221174 NoGainDayne said:
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How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
I’ve been a Giants fan since I was born. There is a photo of my mom holding me at age 2 at training camp in 1981 while Lawrence Taylor signed a training camp roster placard for us.
No, I do not think Jones is good enough right now. However, I am hopeful that if the line can block for him better, he can be a top 10 QB in this league. With his scrambling ability, I think he could lead us to glory.
I’m not attempting to absolve the guy of all blame but I’ve seen this script before. DJ will be fine. And guess what? If I’m wrong and you’re right, we have 30 more games of this. Because I promise that if Joe Schoen does not think he can win a Super Bowl with DJ, he’s pulling the rip cord in February 2025. And Lord willing, you can tell me to eat crow then.
Fair enough, and I appreciate your response.
My apologies for taking such a snarky tone with you throughout our back-and-forth.
No worries. We all want the Giants to win football games.
I believe you used to post on BBWC back in the day. I used to be there also, but I hustled over here in Jan 2004 where the rumor was we were gonna swing a trade to get Eli. Never left here since then. If I have the wrong GatoradeDunk, I apologize. But my name on BBWC was something like VegasPete, and so when I came here, I went with the sarcastic PetesHereNow. Are you the same fella?
I am indeed the same fella, but with quite a few more grays since my BBWC era (if TSwift can have eras, so can I).
Cheers brother. My apologies on my tone as well. I’m from Jersey, you know how it is. I hear you on those grays. The wife says they make me look distinguished but I think she’s full of it ;)
Long like the Gray Dunk and Gray Pete era.
Looking forward to your insight on why Jones isn’t good in the next thread abojt QBs.
Looking forward to your insight on why Jones isn’t good in the next thread abojt QBs.
Looking forward to your next fart fetish post, Chop.
Have a good night man.
Partly, I think DC’s like Quinn and the SF DC are telling their guys “don’t bite on the play action”, just get to Jones as fast as you can. Their OL is struggling so let’s make them drive 10 plays to score. 3-5 yard runs aren’t gonna kill them because eventually there will be a penalty or a sack or a negative play.
I don’t know the numbers and it’s a small sample size but it seems like we suck on plays that are behind the sticks. In other words, 1st and 15, 1st and 20, 2nd and 15, and so on. If the defense can just hunt Jones and not have to worry about a screen or a draw, it’s not pretty.
Would love to see Kafka adapt and come out with either heavy run script next week or work in the draw/screen game much more. Think we also have to get Hyatt in the game, send him deep. Even as a decoy, his speed must be respected. Let’s let Jones get into the rhythm he got into in the 2H vs. Zona.
Ball out and wreck Seattle. The narrative will change…. for a week.
Ball out and wreck Seattle. The narrative will change…. for a week.
Yep. It's a simple as that. Jones needs to have big games with a stand-alone audience. He had a great game in Minnesota for a playoff win, but not many people respected that Vikings team, especially the defense. Now they are 0-3.
Start beating Dallas, Philly, etc. and the narrative will change. Win a shootout against Miami. The narrative will change.
The amount of shit this kid takes from the national media is absurd. Yes, he's no Mahomes or Allen. But he's not some dude either. He's a middle tier QB. But people see the coin he got @ the likely expense of #26...& there we go.
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In comment 16220934 ajr2456 said:
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But if Jones became even 75% of Mcnabb that would be fantastic
No, this is all wrong.
75% of McNabb? Really? McNabb's issues were always completion % and winning in the playoffs.
If Jones only reached 75% of McNabb, his current completion % would already be above the number...and NO Giant fan is going to accept losing in the playoffs time and time again as the favorite.
Completely different era of football, and taking that quite too literal. How many NFC championship games did Mcnabb make?
Ok, fair. However, can you define what the 75% McNabb is that you would find to be "fantastic?"
Who cares about a good record? He threw up in a game.
Plus he isn’t the swell chap or hard worker Daniel Jones is!
The amount of shit this kid takes from the national media is absurd. Yes, he's no Mahomes or Allen. But he's not some dude either. He's a middle tier QB. But people see the coin he got @ the likely expense of #26...& there we go.
Is it? Look at the incessant hammering Mayfield has taken in the media. Darnold, former QB in NY, has been kicked around like a tin can. Goff was a pinata, especially after his hideous SB performance and eventual trade to Detroit.
I could go on and on. But the criticism that Jones takes is not unusual at al vis-a-vis other highly selected QBs.
As many mentioned, Jones controls his fate. Play consistently better and the cacophony of criticism fades.
Jones is being paid like a top 10 QB but when you zoom out beyond individual games he hasn’t earned that by any stretch as a passer.
And I’m not sure how people would not be embarrassed to have an opposing team say your teams QB was afraid to throw the ball. He looked that way so it isn’t shocking to hear that.
Yeah that isn’t the most common refrain… or sight…
Just an aside here, can someone tell me when it became fashionable for other players to criticize those in the same profession, especially when they were no super stars themselves. This was never heard of years ago. This kid is taking an enormous, unwarranted beating by other players, so called TV experts and even some Giant fans. Then is expected to go out and play flawlessly.
There's no shutting up IDIOTS!!! Stupid is stupid. They'll never go away..
I have zero doubt Jones lets the criticism just roll off. He looks like a guy who can compartmentalize.
His loyal members in the DJFC are a completely different story... ;)
I've seen bits and pieces of Stroud's games, and he looks very poised. He had an outstanding QBR in the win in Jax yesterday.
I haven't seen anyone say Jones is above criticism. He certainly is not. This whole team deserves criticism right now, including upstream of the players. It's not a good product right they are putting out on the field right now.