For all those yards, yet we hear, from our Oline Guru how this ine, The Cards,is horrible, and you all believe it. They may not be great, I agree, but they shut us out in sacks, ran all over us, then did it to Dallas. Maybe some people are not some Guru. Maybe they are fans like us. Use your own brains.
Daniel Jones does not have the great supporting cast, there is no doubt. But let's he honest, everything he plays a big game in primetime, he has sucked. He had not once carried this team to a win over a good or a contending team, and he deserves the criticism for that. With that said, I do believe in Jones, and I do believe he will continue to improve this season. But you guys that get sensitive to criticism for Jones, he is not above criticism, and still does not pick up secondary rwcievers well. That first read isn't thete he is not good enough. If he were, we are not losing 40-0 against Dallas. Come on now. Shit. Time to shut up and let this play out. Dedending Jones right now is a horrible look. He is not competitive against contending teams. He liaes this next game at home against Seattle. Then he deserves criticism. So let's watch and learn, instead of saying like this QB had spread proven himself. He has not.
Somehow, a postseason game doesn’t fit into your asinine definition of “a big game”.
If Donovan McNabb is "Never Won the Big One" then what is DJ? Never Won the Small Ones Either?
Does a road playoff game in a hostile environment not count at all?
How about two weeks ago when the Cardinals had the Giants down 28-7 and DJ put the team on his back for the comeback win? Perhaps in light of Arizona’s efforts over the last 3 weeks, maybe they’re not as bad as the talking heads said.
McNabb can say whatever he wants but the Daniel Jones story is still not even half written.
Fair point. Do you want to let Eric know that there's no point in having BBI since we can't fairly discuss players until after their career is complete?
And let's also make sure we apply the same level of consideration to all players, not just the QB.
I'm sure Ximines, for example, will be excited to know that the fanbase has universally decided that his story, like DJ's, is still not even half written.
So a fair discussion begins with you stating that DJ should be categorized as “Never Having Won the Small Ones”? Hmmm.
And LOL at comparing an overdrafted small school DE project to the starting quarterback. If Ximines’ Giants story is not on its last pages, that would be one hell of a plot twist. To date, his story is a children’s pop up book and little Billy’s eyelids are getting real heavy.
I have no patience for people who lack the faculties to pick up on the context that existed before they arrived.
The OP called McNabb "Never Won the Big One" as a way to discredit McNabb's criticism of DJ. But if that's the nickname that the OP is assigning to McNabb, what's the nickname for DJ?
Hence the one I made up using the exact same nomenclature as the OP. It wasn't an especially complicated reference. I'm surprised it required any explanation at all, but here we are.
You guys are fucking wusses when it comes to outside criticism of this team, and you give way more runway to our meh QB than you do for any other meh player on the roster.
That'll go on until he proves everyone wrong, and probably for a while afterward. If the Giants play better, and DJ plays better, some of them will shut up. Though, as we've seen, a QB can win two Super Bowls for the Giants and still get "shot on," as someone said above.
Underrated phenomenon: Believing is seeing, not the other way around. It applies in a lot of things.
Next week there will be a new Jones or QB thread and they will say the same thing over and over again.
The giants stink. Which makes everyone look bad. Stop over analyzing and comparing. Until we get some decent players (and it looks like coaching) - it doesn’t matter who is QBing.
Daniel Jones does not have the great supporting cast, there is no doubt. But let's he honest, everything he plays a big game in primetime, he has sucked. He had not once carried this team to a win over a good or a contending team, and he deserves the criticism for that. With that said, I do believe in Jones, and I do believe he will continue to improve this season. But you guys that get sensitive to criticism for Jones, he is not above criticism, and still does not pick up secondary rwcievers well. That first read isn't thete he is not good enough. If he were, we are not losing 40-0 against Dallas. Come on now. Shit. Time to shut up and let this play out. Dedending Jones right now is a horrible look. He is not competitive against contending teams. He liaes this next game at home against Seattle. Then he deserves criticism. So let's watch and learn, instead of saying like this QB had spread proven himself. He has not.
I just don’t like Eagles quarterbacks slamming Giants quarterbacks or any other Eagle slamming Giants and that goes all the way back to Chuck Bednerik cheapshotting Frank Gifford in 1960.
If Donovan McNabb is "Never Won the Big One" then what is DJ? Never Won the Small Ones Either?
Does a road playoff game in a hostile environment not count at all?
How about two weeks ago when the Cardinals had the Giants down 28-7 and DJ put the team on his back for the comeback win? Perhaps in light of Arizona’s efforts over the last 3 weeks, maybe they’re not as bad as the talking heads said.
McNabb can say whatever he wants but the Daniel Jones story is still not even half written.
Fair point. Do you want to let Eric know that there's no point in having BBI since we can't fairly discuss players until after their career is complete?
And let's also make sure we apply the same level of consideration to all players, not just the QB.
I'm sure Ximines, for example, will be excited to know that the fanbase has universally decided that his story, like DJ's, is still not even half written.
So a fair discussion begins with you stating that DJ should be categorized as “Never Having Won the Small Ones”? Hmmm.
And LOL at comparing an overdrafted small school DE project to the starting quarterback. If Ximines’ Giants story is not on its last pages, that would be one hell of a plot twist. To date, his story is a children’s pop up book and little Billy’s eyelids are getting real heavy.
I have no patience for people who lack the faculties to pick up on the context that existed before they arrived.
The OP called McNabb "Never Won the Big One" as a way to discredit McNabb's criticism of DJ. But if that's the nickname that the OP is assigning to McNabb, what's the nickname for DJ?
Hence the one I made up using the exact same nomenclature as the OP. It wasn't an especially complicated reference. I'm surprised it required any explanation at all, but here we are.
You guys are fucking wusses when it comes to outside criticism of this team, and you give way more runway to our meh QB than you do for any other meh player on the roster.
Your nomenclature (LOL at that term on a football board) was not factually accurate so I cheekily wondered if the road playoff game counted or the 3 TD comeback counted vs. an Arizona team that might not be that bad after all.
As you likely know, Giants fans have a long history of blaming the quarterback for everything (Simms, Eli, now Jones). You call Jones meh, and you’re welcome to that opinion, but some of us actually see a world where if he’s not pressured on 50% of his drop backs and he’s supported by a defense that can actually tackle and get off the field on 3rd down, that Jones may be a lot more than meh.
It’s a team sport, Mr. Dunk.
The simplest way to silence the critics is to perform.
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
The Seahawks are a decent team, but they're giving up 30 points a game. No excuses. He can't control how our defense plays but Jones needs to put up 27-30 points Monday night.
RE: People can get annoyed all they want about who says what
But it is up to DJ and this team to change the narrative.
Right on brother. The amount of people on this site who get butt hurt by comments like this, taken out of context or not, just amazes me. Not very mature
If Donovan McNabb is "Never Won the Big One" then what is DJ? Never Won the Small Ones Either?
Does a road playoff game in a hostile environment not count at all?
How about two weeks ago when the Cardinals had the Giants down 28-7 and DJ put the team on his back for the comeback win? Perhaps in light of Arizona’s efforts over the last 3 weeks, maybe they’re not as bad as the talking heads said.
McNabb can say whatever he wants but the Daniel Jones story is still not even half written.
Fair point. Do you want to let Eric know that there's no point in having BBI since we can't fairly discuss players until after their career is complete?
And let's also make sure we apply the same level of consideration to all players, not just the QB.
I'm sure Ximines, for example, will be excited to know that the fanbase has universally decided that his story, like DJ's, is still not even half written.
So a fair discussion begins with you stating that DJ should be categorized as “Never Having Won the Small Ones”? Hmmm.
And LOL at comparing an overdrafted small school DE project to the starting quarterback. If Ximines’ Giants story is not on its last pages, that would be one hell of a plot twist. To date, his story is a children’s pop up book and little Billy’s eyelids are getting real heavy.
I have no patience for people who lack the faculties to pick up on the context that existed before they arrived.
The OP called McNabb "Never Won the Big One" as a way to discredit McNabb's criticism of DJ. But if that's the nickname that the OP is assigning to McNabb, what's the nickname for DJ?
Hence the one I made up using the exact same nomenclature as the OP. It wasn't an especially complicated reference. I'm surprised it required any explanation at all, but here we are.
You guys are fucking wusses when it comes to outside criticism of this team, and you give way more runway to our meh QB than you do for any other meh player on the roster.
Your nomenclature (LOL at that term on a football board) was not factually accurate so I cheekily wondered if the road playoff game counted or the 3 TD comeback counted vs. an Arizona team that might not be that bad after all.
As you likely know, Giants fans have a long history of blaming the quarterback for everything (Simms, Eli, now Jones). You call Jones meh, and you’re welcome to that opinion, but some of us actually see a world where if he’s not pressured on 50% of his drop backs and he’s supported by a defense that can actually tackle and get off the field on 3rd down, that Jones may be a lot more than meh.
It’s a team sport, Mr. Dunk.
Week 2 vs. Arizona is the equivalent of the Super Bowl?
The team is just that a team. He brought back the Giants against Arizona and is not the problem. The team is just that and not one player wins the game, though one player can make a difference.
The offensive line needs to play better, period. 17 hurries in the last game and 10 sacks so far this year. That is not on Jones but the line.
The team is just that a team. He brought back the Giants against Arizona and is not the problem. The team is just that and not one player wins the game, though one player can make a difference.
The offensive line needs to play better, period. 17 hurries in the last game and 10 sacks so far this year. That is not on Jones but the line.
All 11 guys on offense need to play better. Not 10 + 1. All 11.
And the 100 or so carriage returns after your post were unnecessary.
The team is just that a team. He brought back the Giants against Arizona and is not the problem. The team is just that and not one player wins the game, though one player can make a difference.
The offensive line needs to play better, period. 17 hurries in the last game and 10 sacks so far this year. That is not on Jones but the line.
So 10 other guys on offense but only he brought them back?
RE: DJ is still generally afraid to turn the ball loose.
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
I've stated this before, but both Engram and Barkley have had better receiving years under QBs other than Jones. It's early but Waller is trending the same way. The NFL doesn't allow for a control group to really compare and contrast players, but aren't we building sufficient data showing Jones just isn't an above-average passing producer?
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
I've stated this before, but both Engram and Barkley have had better receiving years under QBs other than Jones. It's early but Waller is trending the same way. The NFL doesn't allow for a control group to really compare and contrast players, but aren't we building sufficient data showing Jones just isn't an above-average passing producer?
That’s hilarious because if Engram could catch, we probably win that shitty division in 2020 at 7-9 or 8-8. And the clown show would still be running things.
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
I can't really think of a player who left Eli and produced better numbers. Vishante Shiancoe, I guess, but that was because he went from second TE here to first in Minnesota.
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
I've stated this before, but both Engram and Barkley have had better receiving years under QBs other than Jones. It's early but Waller is trending the same way. The NFL doesn't allow for a control group to really compare and contrast players, but aren't we building sufficient data showing Jones just isn't an above-average passing producer?
That’s hilarious because if Engram could catch, we probably win that shitty division in 2020 at 7-9 or 8-8. And the clown show would still be running things.
It's also hilarious that Barkley and Waller seem to have developed the dreaded dropsies affliction since Engram's departure. But yes, let's stick to the script on Engram being the problem there. Nevermind that the issue still exists even though the supposed culprit is gone.
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
I can't really think of a player who left Eli and produced better numbers. Vishante Shiancoe, I guess, but that was because he went from second TE here to first in Minnesota.
Eli is an interesting case:
Toomer was too old to produce when he left the Giants (didn't make it out of TC with the chiefs)
Burress shot himself and was out of football for 2 years or so
Nicks suffered lower leg injuries that helped him depart the Giants which more than likely prevented him from putting good numbers again
Cruz suffered a terrible injury and never left the Giants
Steve Smith suffered a terrible injury and was never the same.
Kevin Boss went to oakland but retired shortly after due to concussions.
Beckham is the best example of putting up good numbers after leaving Manning.
Shockey I think put up pretty good numbers for the Saints
I didn't want Engram back--but why is he better under Lawrence than Jones? Why did Barkley's receiving numbers crash with Jones as QB when compared to a cooked Eli Manning?
I think the answer is that Jones is just not a prolific passer. It doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well. But I think elite passing production is the most critical factor to winning championships.
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Jones is being paid like a top 10 QB but when you zoom out beyond individual games he hasn’t earned that by any stretch as a passer.
And I’m not sure how people would not be embarrassed to have an opposing team say your teams QB was afraid to throw the ball. He looked that way so it isn’t shocking to hear that.
Yeah that isn’t the most common refrain… or sight…
I didn't want Engram back--but why is he better under Lawrence than Jones? Why did Barkley's receiving numbers crash with Jones as QB when compared to a cooked Eli Manning?
I think the answer is that Jones is just not a prolific passer. It doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well. But I think elite passing production is the most critical factor to winning championships.
I’ve watched bits and pieces of Engram with JAX. They use him a bunch on TE screens, leaks to the flat, designed plays to get him in space where he can use him ample athleticism and speed to pick up yards. Not much over the middle in traffic, which as we all unfortunately recall, was not his strong suit.
RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
You are making my point thanks. I meant specifically for Engram not sure if that is him but either way that is my point. You play with Jones who has been plagued by holding the ball too long and confidence issues you are going to play tighter and drop more balls. Than Eli, “ice in his veins” manning.
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
RE: RE: Would be interested in Catch rate with Eli Vs. Jones
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
RE: RE: RE: RE: There is some real unintentional comedy here
do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
I'm just saying that you're a DJ fan above being a Giants fan. You're willing to blame other Giants for DJ's shortcomings but not place any responsibility on DJ himself.
We can have legitimate debates re Jones, but to put the blame on him for Engram having an absurd drop rate is just ridiculous. And then to further offer up the opinion, that (1) DJ lacks confident, and (2) that lack of confidence is what caused Engram's problems is just absurd. There is just no support for either, and, in fact, it's just nonsensical.
BTW, Engram had 11 drops as a rookie with Eli as his QB.
Somehow, a postseason game doesn’t fit into your asinine definition of “a big game”.
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Quote:
In comment 16220918 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 16220894 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
If Donovan McNabb is "Never Won the Big One" then what is DJ? Never Won the Small Ones Either?
Does a road playoff game in a hostile environment not count at all?
How about two weeks ago when the Cardinals had the Giants down 28-7 and DJ put the team on his back for the comeback win? Perhaps in light of Arizona’s efforts over the last 3 weeks, maybe they’re not as bad as the talking heads said.
McNabb can say whatever he wants but the Daniel Jones story is still not even half written.
Fair point. Do you want to let Eric know that there's no point in having BBI since we can't fairly discuss players until after their career is complete?
And let's also make sure we apply the same level of consideration to all players, not just the QB.
I'm sure Ximines, for example, will be excited to know that the fanbase has universally decided that his story, like DJ's, is still not even half written.
So a fair discussion begins with you stating that DJ should be categorized as “Never Having Won the Small Ones”? Hmmm.
And LOL at comparing an overdrafted small school DE project to the starting quarterback. If Ximines’ Giants story is not on its last pages, that would be one hell of a plot twist. To date, his story is a children’s pop up book and little Billy’s eyelids are getting real heavy.
I have no patience for people who lack the faculties to pick up on the context that existed before they arrived.
The OP called McNabb "Never Won the Big One" as a way to discredit McNabb's criticism of DJ. But if that's the nickname that the OP is assigning to McNabb, what's the nickname for DJ?
Hence the one I made up using the exact same nomenclature as the OP. It wasn't an especially complicated reference. I'm surprised it required any explanation at all, but here we are.
You guys are fucking wusses when it comes to outside criticism of this team, and you give way more runway to our meh QB than you do for any other meh player on the roster.
Underrated phenomenon: Believing is seeing, not the other way around. It applies in a lot of things.
Next week there will be a new Jones or QB thread and they will say the same thing over and over again.
The giants stink. Which makes everyone look bad. Stop over analyzing and comparing. Until we get some decent players (and it looks like coaching) - it doesn’t matter who is QBing.
I just don’t like Eagles quarterbacks slamming Giants quarterbacks or any other Eagle slamming Giants and that goes all the way back to Chuck Bednerik cheapshotting Frank Gifford in 1960.
Played great and won a playoff game.
What has Murray, who has $80M more guaranteed looked?
Played great and won a playoff game.
What has Murray, who has $80M more guaranteed looked?
Cool, DJ is better than Murray. What's the trophy for that award?
Have higher standards.
And DJ deserves criticism along with everyone else. Who really cares?
That said, it's hilarious how the same 5 or so people swoop in and create a 7000-post thread whenever this kind of stuff gets posted about DJ... lol
Wasn't Mcnabb taken out of a playoff game because he was TIRED?
Answer
No one.
Jones may stink but that is a moot point.
Not even Mahomes would have played well last week on the Giant offense.
Quote:
In comment 16220936 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16220918 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 16220894 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
If Donovan McNabb is "Never Won the Big One" then what is DJ? Never Won the Small Ones Either?
Does a road playoff game in a hostile environment not count at all?
How about two weeks ago when the Cardinals had the Giants down 28-7 and DJ put the team on his back for the comeback win? Perhaps in light of Arizona’s efforts over the last 3 weeks, maybe they’re not as bad as the talking heads said.
McNabb can say whatever he wants but the Daniel Jones story is still not even half written.
Fair point. Do you want to let Eric know that there's no point in having BBI since we can't fairly discuss players until after their career is complete?
And let's also make sure we apply the same level of consideration to all players, not just the QB.
I'm sure Ximines, for example, will be excited to know that the fanbase has universally decided that his story, like DJ's, is still not even half written.
So a fair discussion begins with you stating that DJ should be categorized as “Never Having Won the Small Ones”? Hmmm.
And LOL at comparing an overdrafted small school DE project to the starting quarterback. If Ximines’ Giants story is not on its last pages, that would be one hell of a plot twist. To date, his story is a children’s pop up book and little Billy’s eyelids are getting real heavy.
I have no patience for people who lack the faculties to pick up on the context that existed before they arrived.
The OP called McNabb "Never Won the Big One" as a way to discredit McNabb's criticism of DJ. But if that's the nickname that the OP is assigning to McNabb, what's the nickname for DJ?
Hence the one I made up using the exact same nomenclature as the OP. It wasn't an especially complicated reference. I'm surprised it required any explanation at all, but here we are.
You guys are fucking wusses when it comes to outside criticism of this team, and you give way more runway to our meh QB than you do for any other meh player on the roster.
Your nomenclature (LOL at that term on a football board) was not factually accurate so I cheekily wondered if the road playoff game counted or the 3 TD comeback counted vs. an Arizona team that might not be that bad after all.
As you likely know, Giants fans have a long history of blaming the quarterback for everything (Simms, Eli, now Jones). You call Jones meh, and you’re welcome to that opinion, but some of us actually see a world where if he’s not pressured on 50% of his drop backs and he’s supported by a defense that can actually tackle and get off the field on 3rd down, that Jones may be a lot more than meh.
It’s a team sport, Mr. Dunk.
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
Right on brother. The amount of people on this site who get butt hurt by comments like this, taken out of context or not, just amazes me. Not very mature
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In comment 16220990 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16220936 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16220918 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16220894 Gatorade Dunk said:
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If Donovan McNabb is "Never Won the Big One" then what is DJ? Never Won the Small Ones Either?
Does a road playoff game in a hostile environment not count at all?
How about two weeks ago when the Cardinals had the Giants down 28-7 and DJ put the team on his back for the comeback win? Perhaps in light of Arizona’s efforts over the last 3 weeks, maybe they’re not as bad as the talking heads said.
McNabb can say whatever he wants but the Daniel Jones story is still not even half written.
Fair point. Do you want to let Eric know that there's no point in having BBI since we can't fairly discuss players until after their career is complete?
And let's also make sure we apply the same level of consideration to all players, not just the QB.
I'm sure Ximines, for example, will be excited to know that the fanbase has universally decided that his story, like DJ's, is still not even half written.
So a fair discussion begins with you stating that DJ should be categorized as “Never Having Won the Small Ones”? Hmmm.
And LOL at comparing an overdrafted small school DE project to the starting quarterback. If Ximines’ Giants story is not on its last pages, that would be one hell of a plot twist. To date, his story is a children’s pop up book and little Billy’s eyelids are getting real heavy.
I have no patience for people who lack the faculties to pick up on the context that existed before they arrived.
The OP called McNabb "Never Won the Big One" as a way to discredit McNabb's criticism of DJ. But if that's the nickname that the OP is assigning to McNabb, what's the nickname for DJ?
Hence the one I made up using the exact same nomenclature as the OP. It wasn't an especially complicated reference. I'm surprised it required any explanation at all, but here we are.
You guys are fucking wusses when it comes to outside criticism of this team, and you give way more runway to our meh QB than you do for any other meh player on the roster.
Your nomenclature (LOL at that term on a football board) was not factually accurate so I cheekily wondered if the road playoff game counted or the 3 TD comeback counted vs. an Arizona team that might not be that bad after all.
As you likely know, Giants fans have a long history of blaming the quarterback for everything (Simms, Eli, now Jones). You call Jones meh, and you’re welcome to that opinion, but some of us actually see a world where if he’s not pressured on 50% of his drop backs and he’s supported by a defense that can actually tackle and get off the field on 3rd down, that Jones may be a lot more than meh.
It’s a team sport, Mr. Dunk.
Week 2 vs. Arizona is the equivalent of the Super Bowl?
GTFOH. Loser fans for a loser team.
Answer
No one.
Jones may stink but that is a moot point.
Not even Mahomes would have played well last week on the Giant offense.
Ok, if that's a fair POV, so is this one:
Which functional NFL offense does DJ step in for the incumbent QB and improve that offense?
The offensive line needs to play better, period. 17 hurries in the last game and 10 sacks so far this year. That is not on Jones but the line.
The offensive line needs to play better, period. 17 hurries in the last game and 10 sacks so far this year. That is not on Jones but the line.
All 11 guys on offense need to play better. Not 10 + 1. All 11.
And the 100 or so carriage returns after your post were unnecessary.
The offensive line needs to play better, period. 17 hurries in the last game and 10 sacks so far this year. That is not on Jones but the line.
So 10 other guys on offense but only he brought them back?
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There are plays to be made he's just not making. He deserves the criticism.
At this point, it isn't clear if it is Jones or Kafka afraid to air it out...or both.
Well, it could be that multiple head coaches and offensive coordinators have all just been afraid to air it out.
Or people can finally just accept Occam's razor.
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Dak is Cousins 2.0
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
I've stated this before, but both Engram and Barkley have had better receiving years under QBs other than Jones. It's early but Waller is trending the same way. The NFL doesn't allow for a control group to really compare and contrast players, but aren't we building sufficient data showing Jones just isn't an above-average passing producer?
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In comment 16221033 Toth029 said:
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Dak is Cousins 2.0
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
I've stated this before, but both Engram and Barkley have had better receiving years under QBs other than Jones. It's early but Waller is trending the same way. The NFL doesn't allow for a control group to really compare and contrast players, but aren't we building sufficient data showing Jones just isn't an above-average passing producer?
That’s hilarious because if Engram could catch, we probably win that shitty division in 2020 at 7-9 or 8-8. And the clown show would still be running things.
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
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In comment 16221107 NoGainDayne said:
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In comment 16221033 Toth029 said:
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Dak is Cousins 2.0
"I don't love Dak but he's put up numbers plain and simple. You can asterisk down his stats and asterisk up Jones stats just because you like Jones."
When did I do that? Jones does need to play better but you are not rationalizing how bad his supporting cast has been.
Yeah yeah, DJ continues his run of the most wronged QB by his supporting cast in the history of the league. Oh wait, college too because his supporting cast was also the reason he was underwhelming and held the ball too long at that level as well.
No one, I mean no one is saying he doesn't have a tough situation but one group wants to excuse him because of his tough situation and the other wants to hold him accountable as the most important player on the field despite this.
Has it ever occurred to you that if a player is gun shy it makes him much easier to defend? Some of you go so far in excusing his poor play that you fail to account at all for the fact that Jones could make the players around him tighter, can make it easier to call defenses against him putting his teammates in a worse position.
See most people see it like that, that the QB is the engine that makes a team run and makes everyone around him look better. BBI and Jones are the only place you can go and find the QB as the victim of bad team play. The old swell chap phenomenon that also got him way overpaid.
I've stated this before, but both Engram and Barkley have had better receiving years under QBs other than Jones. It's early but Waller is trending the same way. The NFL doesn't allow for a control group to really compare and contrast players, but aren't we building sufficient data showing Jones just isn't an above-average passing producer?
That’s hilarious because if Engram could catch, we probably win that shitty division in 2020 at 7-9 or 8-8. And the clown show would still be running things.
It's also hilarious that Barkley and Waller seem to have developed the dreaded dropsies affliction since Engram's departure. But yes, let's stick to the script on Engram being the problem there. Nevermind that the issue still exists even though the supposed culprit is gone.
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it.
Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
Eli is an interesting case:
Toomer was too old to produce when he left the Giants (didn't make it out of TC with the chiefs)
Burress shot himself and was out of football for 2 years or so
Nicks suffered lower leg injuries that helped him depart the Giants which more than likely prevented him from putting good numbers again
Cruz suffered a terrible injury and never left the Giants
Steve Smith suffered a terrible injury and was never the same.
Kevin Boss went to oakland but retired shortly after due to concussions.
Beckham is the best example of putting up good numbers after leaving Manning.
Shockey I think put up pretty good numbers for the Saints
Manningham went to SF and a horrific injury.
I think the answer is that Jones is just not a prolific passer. It doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well. But I think elite passing production is the most critical factor to winning championships.
Why is it that ex-players, present players, and commentators are attaching Jones.
After watching football this weekend there were plenty of awful QBs. Yet there is little criticism with the exception of Wilson.
Why do they avoid attaching other QBs but feel comfortable going after Jones ? and for that matter this also applied to Eli.
Is it an anti New York bias ?
Why is it that ex-players, present players, and commentators are attaching Jones.
After watching football this weekend there were plenty of awful QBs. Yet there is little criticism with the exception of Wilson.
Why do they avoid attaching other QBs but feel comfortable going after Jones ? and for that matter this also applied to Eli.
Is it an anti New York bias ?
The contract probably is a big reason I'd guess.
How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4.
Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
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do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Jones is being paid like a top 10 QB but when you zoom out beyond individual games he hasn’t earned that by any stretch as a passer.
And I’m not sure how people would not be embarrassed to have an opposing team say your teams QB was afraid to throw the ball. He looked that way so it isn’t shocking to hear that.
Yeah that isn’t the most common refrain… or sight…
I think the answer is that Jones is just not a prolific passer. It doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well. But I think elite passing production is the most critical factor to winning championships.
I’ve watched bits and pieces of Engram with JAX. They use him a bunch on TE screens, leaks to the flat, designed plays to get him in space where he can use him ample athleticism and speed to pick up yards. Not much over the middle in traffic, which as we all unfortunately recall, was not his strong suit.
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How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
You are making my point thanks. I meant specifically for Engram not sure if that is him but either way that is my point. You play with Jones who has been plagued by holding the ball too long and confidence issues you are going to play tighter and drop more balls. Than Eli, “ice in his veins” manning.
2019: 4.4%
2020: 10.1%
2021: 8.2%
2022: 5.1%
2023: 4.8%
Saqoun:
2018: 3.3%
2019: 5.5%
2020: 11.1%
2021: 10.5%
2022: 7.9%
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In comment 16221166 NoGainDayne said:
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do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
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How about drop percentage? Jones 5.3, Eli 1.4. Stathead Advanced Passing Comparison - ( New Window )
Why is it important to you that DJ be absolved of any responsibility even when it means blaming it on other Giants?
Are you a DJ fan or a Giants fan? Do you think DJ is good enough right now if he never improves at all for the rest of his career? Unless your answer to the latter question is a resounding, "YES!" then why would you be so certain that none of the responsibility rests with DJ himself?
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In comment 16221171 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 16221166 NoGainDayne said:
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do we think that Engram a prolific college receiver forgot how to catch with NYG and remembered again for JAX?
Or maybe this is a data point for exactly what I’m talking about. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of an offense if they need to play mistake free to help say a QB prone to bouts of confidence problems. Makes you play tighter.
We have the Cardinals game as another great data point here. Jones plays with confidence all of a sudden his receivers look better too. But unfortunately that confident Jones needs special circumstances and often a below average defense to show up.
You sure the QB is the one with the confidence problem in this scenario, pal? Fact is, Engram got the yips with the Giants. Very physically talented player, yes, but uhh, let’s say prone to miscues and be kind about it. Engram drops compilation video - ( New Window )
And Barkley and Waller now coincidentally also have the yips?
Occam's razor seems to fit here, pal.
Not saying they have the yips. Barkley dropped one pass which led to the Arizona pick. The pick vs. Dallas - Barkley never saw Diggs, and it was a great play by him.
Waller and Jones have worked together for a grand total of 3 actual games. It does take actual time to establish chemistry, but you will call that an excuse and call me a loser fan and tell me to GTFOH.
I'm just saying that you're a DJ fan above being a Giants fan. You're willing to blame other Giants for DJ's shortcomings but not place any responsibility on DJ himself.
This is exactly what gave rise to the DJFC.
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
BTW, Engram had 11 drops as a rookie with Eli as his QB.
Engram last year with Jax - 98 targets 73 catches 766 yards 4 tds
Engram through 20 games with Jax - 119 targets 91 catches 939 yards 4td
Engram's drops - 2019 03
2020 11
2021 06
2022 05 (Jax)
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With the same posters just in different threads… it’s the same old song…
You registered in August 2023. How do you know what "same old song" and "same posters" there are on BBI?
What's your previous handle(s)?
I love when dupes out themselves.