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How to Stop the Tush Push

John in No Cal : 9/25/2023 9:30 pm
Honestly, we need to look no further than the Eagles illustrious history of dirty players and coaches and ask ourselves: What would Buddy Ryan do?

He would line his players up over the nose and as soon as the ball was put down, he would have everyone jump offside. And have two guys blow up the center and two guys blow up the QB.

And then they'd put the ball half the distance to the goal and he'd do it again...and again and again. Until a brawl broke out or they adjusted the offense.

if that happened now, they would change the rule in a week.

Am I recommending it? No.
Do I think anyone will do it? No.
Is it dirty? Yes
Is it classic 80s football? Probably yes.

And if you don't think so, think about why NFL teams in a running league in those times never really ran the option? It was because we are going hit your WB and drive your QB into the ground (legal back then).

Anyway...food for thought! :)
Only works on the goal line  
Jersey Heel : 9/25/2023 9:48 pm : link
If it’s a regular 3rd or 4th and 1, you’re just giving them the first down.
.  
Banks : 9/25/2023 9:54 pm : link
It helps given the personnel they have. They are strong up front and have strong running qb. If we ever found ourselves at the goaline we'd be less effective
I am thinking….  
Chris in Philly : 9/25/2023 9:55 pm : link
hand grenade.
Until someone kills Hurts  
Ben in Tampa : 9/25/2023 9:57 pm : link
Or the league bans it, it will continue
RE: Only works on the goal line  
John in No Cal : 9/25/2023 10:04 pm : link
In comment 16221499 Jersey Heel said:
Quote:
If it’s a regular 3rd or 4th and 1, you’re just giving them the first down.


My bad fair point. Actually. That also plays into it. If it is guaranteed on two downs then we'll give it to you. At the expense of your QB. Actually...that is it. Since it is guaranteed on two downs.
In that case, the fight will NOT break out for SURE...  
John in No Cal : 9/25/2023 10:06 pm : link
Until the 3rd time they did it.
And after you do that  
Hammer : 9/25/2023 10:09 pm : link
you sit your starting quarterback down because the Eagles will kill him
So if someone has a moment to educate me  
JonA1979 : 9/25/2023 10:13 pm : link
every time they do this, they say "low man wins" but they submarine into the DL legs. I never played so I guess I thought that might be dangerous to not block chest to chest or shouldpad to pad. There is never a flag so I assume its legal, but does anyone know why? I guess no one has had their shin blown up either, it just seems like a cheap play.

And I know the Giants have tried it a few times, so not trying to be a hater just because its the eagles, just interested in knowing the thought process behind diving into someone's shins. Same thing with the couple plays Rodgers played, you always see it on a small scale, cut someone, but from close range and the whole line doing it, it just appears different to me.
Years ago  
BlackLight : 9/25/2023 10:23 pm : link
it was against the rules to assist a ball-carrier forward by pushing or pulling him. I'm not sure why they changed it, unless they thought it was too difficult to enforce in certain situations.

I do think they'll end up banning it, especially if other teams start being as successful with it as Philly does. It's not fun to watch, and anything that makes the game less interesting is probably going to get looked at.
RE: And after you do that  
John in No Cal : 9/25/2023 10:25 pm : link
In comment 16221525 Hammer said:
Quote:
you sit your starting quarterback down because the Eagles will kill him


I guess but the rule will change tomorrow because the NFL doesn't like QBs getting hit. So...your point is what? Your Eagles (hi Welcome to BBI) get 15 yards and a likely check in the mail! Are your players willing to take a hit to the paycheck? Some might? All the other hits are legal...they jumped offside. every time. Bummer.
RE: Years ago  
John in No Cal : 9/25/2023 10:27 pm : link
In comment 16221531 BlackLight said:
Quote:
it was against the rules to assist a ball-carrier forward by pushing or pulling him. I'm not sure why they changed it, unless they thought it was too difficult to enforce in certain situations.

I do think they'll end up banning it, especially if other teams start being as successful with it as Philly does. It's not fun to watch, and anything that makes the game less interesting is probably going to get looked at.


I think it was in college but not the NFL. I know the Reggie Bush play w/ Leinert pushing vs ND was supposed to be a penalty but wasn't called. Could be wrong though.
How do you stop it?  
Breeze_94 : 9/25/2023 11:44 pm : link
Have a LB launch over the pile like a missile. It's dirty, but if they want to run that play it's the risk they take. You gotta hit Hurts and make them think twice about running their 150mil investment into a pile of defenders.
I do not like the play  
Giantimistic : 9/26/2023 1:45 am : link
But I don’t think it is ever going away. More teams get first downs, more offense, more going for it on 4th down.

Hang out at a different bar  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/26/2023 3:08 am : link
.
change the rules  
Hilary : 9/26/2023 6:10 am : link
make pushing a player forward a penalty
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/26/2023 6:14 am : link
I thought there was talk the NFL was going to outlaw it?
Only way to defend it  
section125 : 9/26/2023 7:00 am : link
is to eliminate it and go back to the no push rule. It is getting ridiculous even on regular plays having OL come up and overpower DBs making tackles shoving the carrier forward.

Otherwise embrace it...
As much as most are up in arms about the push  
Tony in Tampa : 9/26/2023 7:38 am : link
to date I don't recall hearing of a defensive player getting hurt because of the scrum. Yes, the pushing could be dangerous but so are a number of blocking plays. Chop blocks were outlawed because guys were getting hurt.

Also as D's try to sell out to stop it, particularly on the goal line look for a QB fake move into line, step back and perhaps jump pass to a wide open TE.
Ban it  
jeff57 : 9/26/2023 7:39 am : link
That's how you stop it.
We ran one against Arizona IIRC  
j_rud : 9/26/2023 8:17 am : link
If they aren't going to ban it we need to adopt it wholesale. Embrace it. We talk about a game on inches and Philly essentially only needs 9 yards to convert.

Yes, I hate it. Not doing so ourselves is foolish.
Should be a penalty  
JayBid : 9/26/2023 8:26 am : link
Encircling is still in the rule book, and this is borderline imo. It’s a cheap truck and it cheapens the game.
Its a copy cat league  
kelly : 9/26/2023 8:35 am : link
Soon every team will do it.

And soon they will be doing it on third and 3 or less since you have the fourth down to get another yard or so.

This is when the nfl will ban it. When teams start doing it on third down and less than 3 yards to go.

I mean what if it is second down and 4 to go? Why not run it three times in a row. Chances are you make the four yards on three tries.

Nothing says the qb has to be under center. Why no a running back or the back up qb if you are afraid of injury. Everyone knows what's coming anyway.

Ask the question a different way? What would Lambert, Butkus, Lanier,  
Spider56 : 9/26/2023 8:38 am : link
Huff, Nitzchke, Nobis, Lyle Alzado, Ben Davidson or even our own LT do? They’d destroy the QB and keep doing it until the offensive team got the message. If the league doesn’t stop it, the defensr need to take it into their own hands,
RE: RE: Years ago  
shyster : 9/26/2023 8:51 am : link
In comment 16221533 John in No Cal said:
Quote:


I think it was in college but not the NFL. I know the Reggie Bush play w/ Leinert pushing vs ND was supposed to be a penalty but wasn't called. Could be wrong though.


Pushing the ball carrier was illegal in the NFL until 2005. Difficulty of enforcement was the reason the rule was changed.

NCAA followed suit about a half dozen years later. Pushing the ball carrier was still illegal in college in 2006, the year of the Reggie Bush play.

Pulling the ball carrier forward is still supposed to be illegal, but it seems to happen without getting called.
Sarcasm on: Think outside the box…  
tony stg : 9/26/2023 8:56 am : link
…add a rule that says 3rd/4th down and 1 yd or less the offense has to be in a shotgun formation. Sarcasm off.
😄
Needs to be banned ASAP  
averagejoe : 9/26/2023 9:13 am : link
You could drag/push the QB every down and probably score a TD on a 15 minute drive. But who wants to watch that ? Play calling and strategy is the beauty of this violent game. Make them run a play in short yardage situations .
RE: RE: RE: Years ago  
shyster : 9/26/2023 9:17 am : link
In comment 16221601 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 16221533 John in No Cal said:


Quote:




I think it was in college but not the NFL. I know the Reggie Bush play w/ Leinert pushing vs ND was supposed to be a penalty but wasn't called. Could be wrong though.



Pushing the ball carrier was illegal in the NFL until 2005. Difficulty of enforcement was the reason the rule was changed.

NCAA followed suit about a half dozen years later. Pushing the ball carrier was still illegal in college in 2006, the year of the Reggie Bush play.



Bush play was actually 2005, the year the rule was changed in NFL, but, again, still illegal in NCAA.
Its not a bad idea…  
90.Cal : 9/26/2023 9:24 am : link
Until players get ejected, suspended and fined for doing it… hard to convince a player to take one for the team like that.

But yeah as a DC i would say “IDGAF what happens on the play, if they tush push, make sure the QB pays for it” either way you have to play that play with EXTREME VIOLENCE, its the only way to have just a chance of stopping it.
Pretty soon teams will start putting a RB under center  
AJ23 : 9/26/2023 9:37 am : link
Jones is good at it, but Saquon would be perfect for this.
Can defensive players tush push?  
90.Cal : 9/26/2023 9:41 am : link
In base 3-4.

Line up Dex, Leo, Ashawn and Kayvon over the Guards and Center, tightly. Put Simmons (or McFadden) and Azeez (or Jihad) over the tackles and have them crash down. Okereke, Pinnock and McKinney need to be right behind our DL and tush push our guys over the Guards and Center. Banks and Adoree have to jump over and on top of everybody and try to either pull Hurts back, take Hurts’s head off (I prefer this) or just land on top of everybody.

How does that sound?
I am not condoning this or advocating this  
Essex : 9/26/2023 10:00 am : link
but in all sports people use intimidation to stop things they don’t want to have happen. Hockey it’s clearing people out of the net, baseball it is throwing someone off the plate.

I have often thought the way to stop the tush push is to rough up the QB jn that scrum. Whether teams will do it or afraid of becoming the next Greg Williams is another thing, but there seems to be a way to stop it if the NFL doesn’t want to get involved.
Use it  
TyreeHelmet : 9/26/2023 10:17 am : link
If you can’t beat them join them. The probably is the giants interior lineman are the likes of Shane Lemieux and there are guys in the SEC who are bigger and stronger than him.
damn  
Burt64 : 9/26/2023 10:19 am : link
hoping this was a NSFW thread.
I also think the tush push  
Essex : 9/26/2023 10:21 am : link
is a bit overhyped if you ask me.

Let's say the QB sneak would work 95% of the time, that the tush push works 5% of the time is certainly significant and especially for when you have the ball on your side, but it is still an easy first down in most scenarios.
Rugby Scrum  
cnj_soccerdad : 9/26/2023 11:37 am : link
The tush push is a bad version of a rugby scrum. I think you could combat the tush push with a better scrum on the defensive side.


Rugby Scrum - ( New Window )
I always thought  
TheEvilLurker : 9/26/2023 1:03 pm : link
Having someone run up and time the jump would stop it, or at least stop it from continuing.
It completely takes the excitement  
Everyone Relax : 9/26/2023 2:38 pm : link
out of 3rd/4th and short situations. It's almost like giving a PGA golfer a gimme for anything within 3 feet. Before the Eagles started doing this those plays were such nail bitters at pivotal parts of games.
A little bit of pride would be a good starting point  
ghost718 : 9/26/2023 3:00 pm : link
It seems to be in short supply these days

Than if nothing worked,maybe spit on the ball like Butkus.That would add a level of discomfort to the entire play.
RE: A little bit of pride would be a good starting point  
Blueworm : 9/26/2023 3:08 pm : link
In comment 16222089 ghost718 said:
Quote:
It seems to be in short supply these days

Than if nothing worked,maybe spit on the ball like Butkus.That would add a level of discomfort to the entire play.


Pretty sure that would earn a penalty, if not an ejection.
every time I see that, one hit comes to my mind.  
FGiant : 9/26/2023 3:21 pm : link
Gary Reasons in Denver snow.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: every time I see that, one hit comes to my mind.  
pivo : 9/26/2023 5:08 pm : link
In comment 16222136 FGiant said:
Quote:
Gary Reasons in Denver snow. Link - ( New Window )


Yup. Wouldn’t e surprised if BB ones up with an answer…
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