Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
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6m
Replying to
@PLeonardNYDN
Brian Daboll says Josh Ezeudu essentially is a backup at 4 of the 5 offensive line spots, both tackles and both guards #giants
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
6m
Replying to
@PLeonardNYDN
Brian Daboll says Josh Ezeudu essentially is a backup at 4 of the 5 offensive line spots, both tackles and both guards #giants
So basically Glowinski has gone from starter to third stringer
to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
Wow Daboll actually sharing some info with the media.
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
6m
Replying to
@PLeonardNYDN
Brian Daboll says Josh Ezeudu essentially is a backup at 4 of the 5 offensive line spots, both tackles and both guards #giants
So basically Glowinski has gone from starter to third stringer
I have a funny feeling Glowinski was a Bobby Johnson guy and Daboll was never 100% on board with him starting this season.
develop as a unit. This constant (injuries have been a factor) changing of the guards is frustrating to watch and must be difficult for JMS and Neal to settle in and trust the guy(s) next to them.
Glad to see Glowinski sitting, though. He's cooked.
RE: They are young. It would be great if they can get some continuity and
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Welp, that's probably the best lineup we've got at the current time. They must think Bredeson is just plain better than Ezeudu at guard which is probably true at the current time.
Seems like Ezeudu would have earned more playing time.
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
Simple answer is Glowinski is only here because he is owed $8 mill this year.
Bredesen was always the LG. Ezeudu is too valuable, at the moment, as backup for all non-center positions. It may also be a partial hedge against AT's hammy condition.
McKethan is the developmental RG and is being looked to, at the moment, for the future. Sy's eval is correct, but McKethan will not improve unless he plays a lot since there is no real live practice in season. Markus is a huge man, lined up next to another huge man. Jones, may lose his life, but you cannot develop a line unless they get to play.
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Daboll's job is to say positive things to back up personnel moves. They've made the decision to go with the younger guy; doesn't mean he has performed all that well.
And Sy's comment about lack of shiftiness is one reason that "length", past a certain point, is not a positive. Higher center of gravity translates to less agility, generally speaking, and is also not an advantage when low man wins.
Eight of nine Pro Bowl guards last year were no taller than 6'5" even. All four All Pros were under 6'5".
At 6'6 1/2, McKethan's length is not, in itself, a plus for the position.
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Sy is not the only analyst that has this opinion on McKethan.
Lost all of last season, and did not have an off season this year, since he was recovering from knee surgery. I would strongly suggest you give him more time. Sometimes it takes a little time to develop. I want Ezeudu at right tackle and Neal at right guard. But they are going to due on that hill. Fuck them then. Bill Walsh said it best, there are no geniuses in football. Truest words spoken by a head coach who was called a genius back then for developing the West Coast offense for Joe Montana.
Lost all of last season, and did not have an off season this year, since he was recovering from knee surgery. I would strongly suggest you give him more time. Sometimes it takes a little time to develop. I want Ezeudu at right tackle and Neal at right guard. But they are going to due on that hill. Fuck them then. Bill Walsh said it best, there are no geniuses in football. Truest words spoken by a head coach who was called a genius back then for developing the West Coast offense for Joe Montana.
After he was hired, asked about his reputation an offensive genius, Fassel said we're a bunch of PE majors coaching PE majors - no geniuses in football. I guess it's a Walshism.
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Daboll's job is to support his players. He's not going to stand up there and say "McKethan sucked too, but he's better than the other shit options we have"
Had time to show improvement. He has shown none to very little. He is clumsy, plain and simple. A big clumsy fuck without a mean streak. He has the size to be a mean fuck, but it's not him. At some point you have to see who you are and live on your strengths, and try not to let your weaknesses undue the good you do with your strengths. This guy is all over the fucking place. It's not a pretty sight, and he is hurting the team. Something this coach and GM said would not happen. They are now full of shit.
Had time to show improvement. He has shown none to very little. He is clumsy, plain and simple. A big clumsy fuck without a mean streak. He has the size to be a mean fuck, but it's not him. At some point you have to see who you are and live on your strengths, and try not to let your weaknesses undue the good you do with your strengths. This guy is all over the fucking place. It's not a pretty sight, and he is hurting the team. Something this coach and GM said would not happen. They are now full of shit.
Yeah, that is your opinion and you may die on that hill yourself.
Neal will be given time(since preseason is an effing joke). The only way to get better is to play - there are not any in season live sessions.
Will he improve? WTF knows. Will McKethan improve? WTF knows.
Neal has also had a revolving door of revolving doors
to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
They are giving Neal the longest of leashes. If he wasn't a lottery pick do you think he'd still be starting?
I'd bench his turnstile ass and try Ezeudu.
RE: Neal has also had a revolving door of revolving doors
to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
They are giving Neal the longest of leashes. If he wasn't a lottery pick do you think he'd still be starting?
I'd bench his turnstile ass and try Ezeudu.
OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
If they spoke with Neal as well about who he’s felt most comfortable with so far. They desperately need Neal to develop and starting next to a guard he trusts and feels comfortable with can only help
Daboll's job is to support his players. He's not going to stand up there and say "McKethan sucked too, but he's better than the other shit options we have"
Either way, thats how I interpreted it
RE: Based upon 'Sy 's review I'm surprised by the McKethan promotion.
Seems like Ezeudu would have earned more playing time.
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
Ezeudu's play at OG didn't earn more time there than McKethan. He did do a nice job filling in at LT, though. At this point in time, these moves make sense.
Very good. But at least his size makes it hard for guys to run right through him like we’ve seen with Glowinski and Lemieux.
Also, I know we were way down on Will Hernandez - but he’s quietly played very well at RG for Arizona since signing there. Probably should’ve kept him around, at a fraction of the cost for Glowinski.
RE: RE: Neal has also had a revolving door of revolving doors
to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
They are giving Neal the longest of leashes. If he wasn't a lottery pick do you think he'd still be starting?
I'd bench his turnstile ass and try Ezeudu.
I think Neal's leash will be a little longer, along with McKethan, to see what they do together as a right side. In a fe weeks, though, if we are still talking about Neal struggling, Ezeudu might be up.
If they did (more likely next year) move Neal inside, could he play LG? I think McKethan sticks at RG. Neal at LG and Ezeudu at RT could be an interesting option next year.
Skinner gave Mckethan very poor grades
The right tackle of the future is not on the roster.
If Neal’s problem was recognizing defenses or power
those things might improve but quickness out of stance and footwork
are not likely to improve. Some people learn any dance easily and some
can’t dance.
Skinner gave Mckethan very poor grades
The right tackle of the future is not on the roster.
If Neal’s problem was recognizing defenses or power
those things might improve but quickness out of stance and footwork
are not likely to improve. Some people learn any dance easily and some
can’t dance.
I don't fully agree. Quickness out of stance depends on the cause. If it is physical, then yes, I agree. But, it could be mental in terms of not getting the assignment on a given play quick enough. This can improve with film work, more reps, consistency at RG next to him, and JMS getting more experience making OL calls.
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
who? Dabs and Sy? Like… I don’t understand why by it matters if they disagree? I don’t even know if they’ve spoken to each other? Love Sy and I respect his opinion. But who knows where Dabs is seeing the potential in Marcus? Is it in practice? Is it because he’s played so few snaps and he’s seen improvement in that span even if it’s not great yet?
Guess I’m just wondering why Dabs and Sy would be at odds? Unless I’m overreacting to the turn of phrase you chose here and you just meant they see things differently. To which the answer is: maybe? But it sounds like they could be right on the same wavelength. Thinking Marcus has all the tools and while he’s not killing it, he has shown enough potential and flashes to invest time in his development as there aren’t better options for n the roster currently.
RE: RE: Based upon 'Sy 's review I'm surprised by the McKethan promotion.
Maybe Sy is not infallible. It just baffles me how he is treated here. As if he knows more than every coach and personnel guy in the league.
It's pretty simple: his live drafts have been vastly superior to the Giants and its all on record. That doesn't mean he never gets it wrong. It just means on average, over the last 10 years, Sy has a better feel for talent than a lot of pros, let alone most of BBI.
They should have used the preseason to figure this out.
Instead, they moved everyone around during camp and sat what they thought would be their starting OL on the bench. These guys needed to play and try to gel. Four games in and they're still experimenting. All the toys catching the ball don't matter if you can't block.
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
who? Dabs and Sy? Like… I don’t understand why by it matters if they disagree? I don’t even know if they’ve spoken to each other? Love Sy and I respect his opinion. But who knows where Dabs is seeing the potential in Marcus? Is it in practice? Is it because he’s played so few snaps and he’s seen improvement in that span even if it’s not great yet?
Guess I’m just wondering why Dabs and Sy would be at odds? Unless I’m overreacting to the turn of phrase you chose here and you just meant they see things differently. To which the answer is: maybe? But it sounds like they could be right on the same wavelength. Thinking Marcus has all the tools and while he’s not killing it, he has shown enough potential and flashes to invest time in his development as there aren’t better options for n the roster currently.
I don't see how there can really be a disagreement. Go back and watch the Niners game. McKethan was a disaster. Go back and look at the Cardinals game, which is a very poor front, and he was clearly the worst of the OL.
More likely, Daboll sees some potential in McKethan. That seems pretty clear because he was slated to play a big role last year as a rookie before the injury.
But Daboll can't really say "McKethan has sucked. Ezuedu has sucked at OG. Glowinski obviously sucks too. So they all suck, but if they're all going to suck, we may as well go with potential."
RE: RE: Based upon 'Sy 's review I'm surprised by the McKethan promotion.
this year. Would Bredeson have been better at RG and Ezeudu an LG? Lots of inexperience on the right side. Expect a lot of pressure, but at least DJ could see it coming from his right.
OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Neal struggles continue they seriously should try JE at RT. We have to try and salvage this season.
The focus should be on having answers to a lot of personnel questions by the end of the year, not salvaging the season. The roster is what it is and it’s not good enough to compete in the division.
Big man, powerful. Good enough feet. It’s essentially his rookie year since he had the ACL last year. If he and Neal can develop into average pass protectors - that’s a formidable right side of the line.
There will be growing pains but we need to give both these guys this year IMO to see what we have. I know it’s frustrating but there is potential; o-lineman often take time to develop.
Do we want to try to win a couple of extra games THIS year
or build a line to win a championship with? Which is the focus? Sometimes it takes a good while for a guy to get it, especially on the OL.
I still see Neal thinking rather than playing too much, trying to refine his technique- which falls apart frequently under pressure. Doesn't mean the talent isn't there. Neal may not be a "good" tackle until year end. But lets bench his ass after 3 games (and 2 came against Dallas and SF fronts).
McKethan has played 2 GAMES. but lets move on because he's not great right away.
JFC, these are young guys trying to figure it out, not Nate Solder who was done when he got here.
Neal struggles continue they seriously should try JE at RT. We have to try and salvage this season.
The focus should be on having answers to a lot of personnel questions by the end of the year, not salvaging the season. The roster is what it is and it’s not good enough to compete in the division.
the focus for the coaches is always to win as many games as they can, this year, or there might not be a next year for them
Eveybody else needs to be put on notice. I think that message is being heard (ie the benching of Glow).
If Neal doesn't improve and the coaching staff feels that Ezeudu gives them a better chance to compete - they need to do it, even if Neal is a top 5 pick.
The offense isn't competing right now b/c of the OL - does Jones miss some throws, sure...do the receiving weapons need to be more dependable, sure...the OL is the biggest hold up to this team competing - to my eyes it's pretty obvious.
RE: They should have used the preseason to figure this out.
Instead, they moved everyone around during camp and sat what they thought would be their starting OL on the bench. These guys needed to play and try to gel. Four games in and they're still experimenting. All the toys catching the ball don't matter if you can't block.
Ding, ding, ding!
I am not ready to move on from anyone but Glowinski
OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
RE: I am not ready to move on from anyone but Glowinski
Granted, being younger and highly regarded(draft positions)....gets a longer runway.
Not to mention, they do pay the otherside as well and Dallas and SF are as good as it gets.....a ton of good players have difficulty with them.
I agree. It's a super young group and it's taking a while to separate the wheat from the chaff. The only way to do that is to young players opportunities and that means moving them around sometimes.
Perhaps this is their best configuration going forward (I don't think Neal is ready for a move to G), but barring injury I do expect the line to improve from game to game as the year goes on.
#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Surprised to see Sy at odds with the team's evaluation. If I disagree with the Giants, I figure I'm just some dope in front of a laptop. But Sy is a pro. There's probably more going on here than meets the eye.
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
I'm not giving up on Neal. I never said that. What I said was sitting him might not be a bad idea. Not the entire season, but a few games...
Neal is a lottery pick. Parsons was a lottery pick. Bosa was a lottery pick. I would expect our lottery pick to be able to compete effectively. Isn't that why he was a lottery pick?
I hope he proves all of you wrong and I think he will.
He has less than 1k snaps at RT in the pros and has less than 800 in his one college season at RT. Also, Progress is not usually linear. The Giants are right to show patience as the juice is with the squeeze if it starts clicking as the giants will have 2 tackles at a high level.
Skinner gave Mckethan very poor grades
The right tackle of the future is not on the roster.
If Neal’s problem was recognizing defenses or power
those things might improve but quickness out of stance and footwork
are not likely to improve. Some people learn any dance easily and some
can’t dance.
Pump the brakes on Neal. Many/most of his reps were against one of the best edge rushers in all of football, and he actually won his fair share of reps in that matchup. We all focus on the negative plays, while ignoring the reps that he did well in.
To me, his performance in week 3 gave me encouragement towards his development. Just like Andrew Thomas, people were, at this point in his career relative to Neal, throwing dirt on him. Now he's one the best LTs in football. Neal showed me that if he can stay healthy, he has as good a chance as anyone to continue to progress into a really good performer at that spot.
I'd like to see more of McKethan. They aren't going to have to go up against a Javon Hargrave and Nick Bosa every week. Just like no one is going to blank Aaron Donald for an entire game, these guys are going to cause some problems for anyone they are lined up against.
Now, these guys are going to have their hands full with Dre'Mont Jones this week, but it's not going to be like what they faced in week 3. The following week against the Dolphins will be another test with Bradley Chubb, but I believe he will we mostly be Andrew Thomas' responsibility. Let's see how these guys do over the next couple of weeks.
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
I'm not giving up on Neal. I never said that. What I said was sitting him might not be a bad idea. Not the entire season, but a few games...
Neal is a lottery pick. Parsons was a lottery pick. Bosa was a lottery pick. I would expect our lottery pick to be able to compete effectively. Isn't that why he was a lottery pick?
No backtracking now
Stick to you guns man
Yes, we expected him to play batter
But he didn’t
So you want to sit him
I don’t
No need to backtrack
to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
This is just stupid. If every OT who looked like shit LT and company was demoted it would include some all pros and true studs. Dallas looks to have the best defense in the NFL. Guys stop looks like shit game 10 fine. But this was the same stupid shit about Andrew Thomas.
Please tell me who didnt suck ass against the Cowboys.
RE: RE: They need to stick with 5 guys and let them
No backtracking now
Stick to you guns man
Yes, we expected him to play batter
But he didn’t
So you want to sit him
I don’t
No need to backtrack
There is no backtracking. You have a comprehension problem.
Again, I didn't say we should permanently stop using Neal. I said it may not be a bad idea to sit him. And it shouldn't take a high level of intellect to understand what sitting means...
OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Sorry bw - you did say just sit him for now
I think that would kill his confidence, not help him, but it’s a valid opinion
We both hope he’s the long-term answer at right tackle, but that does remains to be seen
But considering your harsh response to mine, I will point out that Parsons and Bosa are not just “lottery picks” ithey are probably the two best pass rushers in the NFL.
it would be nice to know what we have at RG and RT.
Find out if they can play, otherwise our draft strategy has to refocus on the OL.
Certainly will be taking a guard in draft/FA next year.....if these 2nd year guys can show progress - and by progress I mean play at a competent level - it will be a step in the right direction.
Eveybody else needs to be put on notice. I think that message is being heard (ie the benching of Glow).
If Neal doesn't improve and the coaching staff feels that Ezeudu gives them a better chance to compete - they need to do it, even if Neal is a top 5 pick.
The offense isn't competing right now b/c of the OL - does Jones miss some throws, sure...do the receiving weapons need to be more dependable, sure...the OL is the biggest hold up to this team competing - to my eyes it's pretty obvious.
Agreed, when the OL can become dependable it allows the offense in other areas to be granted some forgiveness on errors made.
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
I'm not giving up on Neal. I never said that. What I said was sitting him might not be a bad idea. Not the entire season, but a few games...
Neal is a lottery pick. Parsons was a lottery pick. Bosa was a lottery pick. I would expect our lottery pick to be able to compete effectively. Isn't that why he was a lottery pick?
I actually saw some signs of life from Neal against Bosa. I'm not ready to give up on him. The guy shifted all over the place in college. Missed a good chunk of his rookie year. Missed a lot of camp. Fingers crossed
McKethan has played in two NFL games and there are folks on this thread who are ready move on.
Use your freaking heads.
BTW, Eric my earlier comment was not meant to imply we should move on from McKethan. It's just that at this moment he is subpar, at best.
Still only 2 games. He'll have 50% more game experience next week.
PFF rated Glowinski slightly above average, and he was expected to be that. Unless you think we're tanking the season or Glowinski is screwing Daboll's wife, McKethan just won the RG job over him. Isn't that meaningful considering that Glowinski is still here and healthy.
it would be nice to know what we have at RG and RT.
Find out if they can play, otherwise our draft strategy has to refocus on the OL.
Certainly will be taking a guard in draft/FA next year.....if these 2nd year guys can show progress - and by progress I mean play at a competent level - it will be a step in the right direction.
Correct.
RE: They should have used the preseason to figure this out.
Instead, they moved everyone around during camp and sat what they thought would be their starting OL on the bench. These guys needed to play and try to gel. Four games in and they're still experimenting. All the toys catching the ball don't matter if you can't block.
Are you serious? First off, how is this an experiment, and second, make up your mind. Moving guys around is trying to figure it out. Duh.
McKethan has played in two NFL games and there are folks on this thread who are ready move on.
Use your freaking heads.
BTW, Eric my earlier comment was not meant to imply we should move on from McKethan. It's just that at this moment he is subpar, at best.
Still only 2 games. He'll have 50% more game experience next week.
PFF rated Glowinski slightly above average, and he was expected to be that. Unless you think we're tanking the season or Glowinski is screwing Daboll's wife, McKethan just won the RG job over him. Isn't that meaningful considering that Glowinski is still here and healthy.
I think it means he's less crappy thsn glowinski and he has the potential to be much better as the season ptogresses
10 years of losing gets forgotten in an instant, and people can't want to overinflate the giants then get mad when they aren't a microwave dinner overnight contender.
You want them to be good so bad you'll forget anything you've learned along the way.
"We were ok last year, so we can only get better next year" is a trap some of you fall into every time.
to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
This is just stupid. If every OT who looked like shit LT and company was demoted it would include some all pros and true studs. Dallas looks to have the best defense in the NFL. Guys stop looks like shit game 10 fine. But this was the same stupid shit about Andrew Thomas.
Please tell me who didnt suck ass against the Cowboys.
Oh yeah - you right
The Cowboys game was the only bad tape Neal put out there
My bad
They've been put through the ringer against Dallas & the 49ers, they(and the team) will be for it. About Glowinski, I think he's just a back-up, (did OK subbing for Brederson at LG) at this point, he "ain't gonna get better".
About Neal, I wish somebody would lock him up in the film room with a pile of baloney sandwiches and four hours of Jon Runyan film showing how big men are supposed to abuse smaller defensive players.
the last 5 or so years of Eli's career and the first 5 years of Jones career have been impacted by poor line play.
How is it possible for a professional franchise to have such a shitty offensive line for a decade and still counting.
The added problem is they’ve poured lots of resources both with high draft picks and free agency into the OL, they’ve just either picked/signed the wrong guys or can’t develop them or both
All that represents picks and money that weren’t used on other areas of the roster
You guys have to stop using Sy’s game evaluations as the measure of whether a player is good or not. He grades game by game. He doesn’t factor in whether someone is a rookie or a 10 year veteran.
@PLeonardNYDN
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@PLeonardNYDN
Brian Daboll says Josh Ezeudu essentially is a backup at 4 of the 5 offensive line spots, both tackles and both guards #giants
@PLeonardNYDN
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Brian Daboll says LG Ben Bredeson (concussion) is good to go
Says the O-line if LT Andrew Thomas (hamstring) and Bredeson are back against Seattle would be, left to right:
Thomas- Bredeson- John Michael Schmitz- Marcus McKethan- Evan Neal
@PLeonardNYDN
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Brian Daboll says Josh Ezeudu essentially is a backup at 4 of the 5 offensive line spots, both tackles and both guards #giants
So basically Glowinski has gone from starter to third stringer
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
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Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
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@PLeonardNYDN
Brian Daboll says Josh Ezeudu essentially is a backup at 4 of the 5 offensive line spots, both tackles and both guards #giants
So basically Glowinski has gone from starter to third stringer
I have a funny feeling Glowinski was a Bobby Johnson guy and Daboll was never 100% on board with him starting this season.
Glad to see Glowinski sitting, though. He's cooked.
I thing that is the plan. They will take their lumps now, but by year end hopefully adequate, and maybe if lucky a real good line for years to come.
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Same, he was a relatively important signing for Schoen.
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
Not arguing, but I thought that Glowinski was pretty bad last year too. Maybe I am having selective memory.
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I never thought he was a long term piece, or better than average, but I didn't expect him to completely fall off a cliff this year.
Same, he was a relatively important signing for Schoen.
There weren’t a lot of options given how little he had to spend but certainly very disappointing.
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I never thought he was a long term piece, or better than average, but I didn't expect him to completely fall off a cliff this year.
Not arguing, but I thought that Glowinski was pretty bad last year too. Maybe I am having selective memory.
I agree. People were riding Feliciano last year (rightfully), but I thought Glowinski was as bad.
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
Simple answer is Glowinski is only here because he is owed $8 mill this year.
Bredesen was always the LG. Ezeudu is too valuable, at the moment, as backup for all non-center positions. It may also be a partial hedge against AT's hammy condition.
McKethan is the developmental RG and is being looked to, at the moment, for the future. Sy's eval is correct, but McKethan will not improve unless he plays a lot since there is no real live practice in season. Markus is a huge man, lined up next to another huge man. Jones, may lose his life, but you cannot develop a line unless they get to play.
IMHO
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Daboll's job is to say positive things to back up personnel moves. They've made the decision to go with the younger guy; doesn't mean he has performed all that well.
And Sy's comment about lack of shiftiness is one reason that "length", past a certain point, is not a positive. Higher center of gravity translates to less agility, generally speaking, and is also not an advantage when low man wins.
Eight of nine Pro Bowl guards last year were no taller than 6'5" even. All four All Pros were under 6'5".
At 6'6 1/2, McKethan's length is not, in itself, a plus for the position.
Hopefully McKethan improves, because several OL analysts have indictated that he has not looked great so far.
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Sy is not the only analyst that has this opinion on McKethan.
And most importantly, now it's time for them to play together and gel.
After he was hired, asked about his reputation an offensive genius, Fassel said we're a bunch of PE majors coaching PE majors - no geniuses in football. I guess it's a Walshism.
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Daboll's job is to support his players. He's not going to stand up there and say "McKethan sucked too, but he's better than the other shit options we have"
But maybe that don't want to keep juggling the line up.
I think McKethan has potential. This is essentially his rookie year. Him and Neal give you a big right side of the line.
Maybe Dabol plans on running the ball more. Bredesen is a good run blocker.
Yeah, that is your opinion and you may die on that hill yourself.
Neal will be given time(since preseason is an effing joke). The only way to get better is to play - there are not any in season live sessions.
Will he improve? WTF knows. Will McKethan improve? WTF knows.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
They are giving Neal the longest of leashes. If he wasn't a lottery pick do you think he'd still be starting?
I'd bench his turnstile ass and try Ezeudu.
That's the main reason I expected Bredeson to be RT but this makes a lot of sense for the following reasons:
1- It allows Neal and McKethan to build a relationship that will hopefully last years
2-Allows McKethan to play the only position he may be a starter at long-term
3-Allows Ezeudu to continue to work at and improve as primary LT back-up
This is the best and most hopeful long-term OL
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to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
They are giving Neal the longest of leashes. If he wasn't a lottery pick do you think he'd still be starting?
I'd bench his turnstile ass and try Ezeudu.
OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Daboll's job is to support his players. He's not going to stand up there and say "McKethan sucked too, but he's better than the other shit options we have"
Either way, thats how I interpreted it
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
Also, I know we were way down on Will Hernandez - but he’s quietly played very well at RG for Arizona since signing there. Probably should’ve kept him around, at a fraction of the cost for Glowinski.
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to his left pretty much his entire time here. I'm no OL coach, but I imagine that it's pretty important for the RT to be able to trust his RG
That's the main reason I expected Bredeson to be RT but this makes a lot of sense for the following reasons:
1- It allows Neal and McKethan to build a relationship that will hopefully last years
2-Allows McKethan to play the only position he may be a starter at long-term
3-Allows Ezeudu to continue to work at and improve as primary LT back-up
This is the best and most hopeful long-term OL
Lineman prefer pounding someone and moving forward.
At a minimum the D cheats down low, then you throw a deep ball.
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to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
They are giving Neal the longest of leashes. If he wasn't a lottery pick do you think he'd still be starting?
I'd bench his turnstile ass and try Ezeudu.
If they did (more likely next year) move Neal inside, could he play LG? I think McKethan sticks at RG. Neal at LG and Ezeudu at RT could be an interesting option next year.
The right tackle of the future is not on the roster.
If Neal’s problem was recognizing defenses or power
those things might improve but quickness out of stance and footwork
are not likely to improve. Some people learn any dance easily and some
can’t dance.
Not looking for competence over the next several games… just some tangible improvement by season’s end.
If Daboll and his staff cannot achieve that, we’ve got a huge problem on our hands that could easily — I said EASILY — spill over into next season.
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In comment 16221903 logman said:
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to his left pretty much his entire time here. I'm no OL coach, but I imagine that it's pretty important for the RT to be able to trust his RG
That's the main reason I expected Bredeson to be RT but this makes a lot of sense for the following reasons:
1- It allows Neal and McKethan to build a relationship that will hopefully last years
2-Allows McKethan to play the only position he may be a starter at long-term
3-Allows Ezeudu to continue to work at and improve as primary LT back-up
This is the best and most hopeful long-term OL
Well, Bredeson isn't a long term solution. But, I agree he is the best option right now.
Re-signing Bredeson, even if only to be a back-up based on performance now, May be the plan
The right tackle of the future is not on the roster.
If Neal’s problem was recognizing defenses or power
those things might improve but quickness out of stance and footwork
are not likely to improve. Some people learn any dance easily and some
can’t dance.
In comment 16221858 Tom in NY said:
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Guess I’m just wondering why Dabs and Sy would be at odds? Unless I’m overreacting to the turn of phrase you chose here and you just meant they see things differently. To which the answer is: maybe? But it sounds like they could be right on the same wavelength. Thinking Marcus has all the tools and while he’s not killing it, he has shown enough potential and flashes to invest time in his development as there aren’t better options for n the roster currently.
It's pretty simple: his live drafts have been vastly superior to the Giants and its all on record. That doesn't mean he never gets it wrong. It just means on average, over the last 10 years, Sy has a better feel for talent than a lot of pros, let alone most of BBI.
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#NYGiants Daboll - "mckethan will stay as starting RG...done a good job, improving, big, moves well."
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
who? Dabs and Sy? Like… I don’t understand why by it matters if they disagree? I don’t even know if they’ve spoken to each other? Love Sy and I respect his opinion. But who knows where Dabs is seeing the potential in Marcus? Is it in practice? Is it because he’s played so few snaps and he’s seen improvement in that span even if it’s not great yet?
Guess I’m just wondering why Dabs and Sy would be at odds? Unless I’m overreacting to the turn of phrase you chose here and you just meant they see things differently. To which the answer is: maybe? But it sounds like they could be right on the same wavelength. Thinking Marcus has all the tools and while he’s not killing it, he has shown enough potential and flashes to invest time in his development as there aren’t better options for n the roster currently.
I don't see how there can really be a disagreement. Go back and watch the Niners game. McKethan was a disaster. Go back and look at the Cardinals game, which is a very poor front, and he was clearly the worst of the OL.
More likely, Daboll sees some potential in McKethan. That seems pretty clear because he was slated to play a big role last year as a rookie before the injury.
But Daboll can't really say "McKethan has sucked. Ezuedu has sucked at OG. Glowinski obviously sucks too. So they all suck, but if they're all going to suck, we may as well go with potential."
In comment 16221858 Tom in NY said:
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Seems like Ezeudu would have earned more playing time.
I don't know how to make sense of this, but I'm not an Oline coach.
It baffles me too. Especially since in this case we are talking about a player (McKethan) who is basically a rookie.
OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
The focus should be on having answers to a lot of personnel questions by the end of the year, not salvaging the season. The roster is what it is and it’s not good enough to compete in the division.
McKethan has played in two NFL games and there are folks on this thread who are ready move on.
Use your freaking heads.
There will be growing pains but we need to give both these guys this year IMO to see what we have. I know it’s frustrating but there is potential; o-lineman often take time to develop.
I still see Neal thinking rather than playing too much, trying to refine his technique- which falls apart frequently under pressure. Doesn't mean the talent isn't there. Neal may not be a "good" tackle until year end. But lets bench his ass after 3 games (and 2 came against Dallas and SF fronts).
McKethan has played 2 GAMES. but lets move on because he's not great right away.
JFC, these are young guys trying to figure it out, not Nate Solder who was done when he got here.
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Neal struggles continue they seriously should try JE at RT. We have to try and salvage this season.
The focus should be on having answers to a lot of personnel questions by the end of the year, not salvaging the season. The roster is what it is and it’s not good enough to compete in the division.
the focus for the coaches is always to win as many games as they can, this year, or there might not be a next year for them
2 are locked in.
Eveybody else needs to be put on notice. I think that message is being heard (ie the benching of Glow).
If Neal doesn't improve and the coaching staff feels that Ezeudu gives them a better chance to compete - they need to do it, even if Neal is a top 5 pick.
The offense isn't competing right now b/c of the OL - does Jones miss some throws, sure...do the receiving weapons need to be more dependable, sure...the OL is the biggest hold up to this team competing - to my eyes it's pretty obvious.
Ding, ding, ding!
Not to mention, they do pay the otherside as well and Dallas and SF are as good as it gets.....a ton of good players have difficulty with them.
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OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
Not to mention, they do pay the otherside as well and Dallas and SF are as good as it gets.....a ton of good players have difficulty with them.
I agree. It's a super young group and it's taking a while to separate the wheat from the chaff. The only way to do that is to young players opportunities and that means moving them around sometimes.
Perhaps this is their best configuration going forward (I don't think Neal is ready for a move to G), but barring injury I do expect the line to improve from game to game as the year goes on.
Sy's review "McKethan struggled even more. He was charged with 4 pressures and a sack in addition to a holding penalty. His size and length appear to be weapons that can win a lot of battles, but it is a complete hit or miss due to a lower half that does not have enough shiftiness to it."
At odds with each other?
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
I'm not giving up on Neal. I never said that. What I said was sitting him might not be a bad idea. Not the entire season, but a few games...
Neal is a lottery pick. Parsons was a lottery pick. Bosa was a lottery pick. I would expect our lottery pick to be able to compete effectively. Isn't that why he was a lottery pick?
So was Kevin Zeitler when the Giants cut ties with him, wasn't he?
He has less than 1k snaps at RT in the pros and has less than 800 in his one college season at RT. Also, Progress is not usually linear. The Giants are right to show patience as the juice is with the squeeze if it starts clicking as the giants will have 2 tackles at a high level.
The right tackle of the future is not on the roster.
If Neal’s problem was recognizing defenses or power
those things might improve but quickness out of stance and footwork
are not likely to improve. Some people learn any dance easily and some
can’t dance.
Pump the brakes on Neal. Many/most of his reps were against one of the best edge rushers in all of football, and he actually won his fair share of reps in that matchup. We all focus on the negative plays, while ignoring the reps that he did well in.
To me, his performance in week 3 gave me encouragement towards his development. Just like Andrew Thomas, people were, at this point in his career relative to Neal, throwing dirt on him. Now he's one the best LTs in football. Neal showed me that if he can stay healthy, he has as good a chance as anyone to continue to progress into a really good performer at that spot.
I'd like to see more of McKethan. They aren't going to have to go up against a Javon Hargrave and Nick Bosa every week. Just like no one is going to blank Aaron Donald for an entire game, these guys are going to cause some problems for anyone they are lined up against.
Now, these guys are going to have their hands full with Dre'Mont Jones this week, but it's not going to be like what they faced in week 3. The following week against the Dolphins will be another test with Bradley Chubb, but I believe he will we mostly be Andrew Thomas' responsibility. Let's see how these guys do over the next couple of weeks.
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In comment 16222007 bw in dc said:
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
I'm not giving up on Neal. I never said that. What I said was sitting him might not be a bad idea. Not the entire season, but a few games...
Neal is a lottery pick. Parsons was a lottery pick. Bosa was a lottery pick. I would expect our lottery pick to be able to compete effectively. Isn't that why he was a lottery pick?
No backtracking now
Stick to you guns man
Yes, we expected him to play batter
But he didn’t
So you want to sit him
I don’t
No need to backtrack
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
This is just stupid. If every OT who looked like shit LT and company was demoted it would include some all pros and true studs. Dallas looks to have the best defense in the NFL. Guys stop looks like shit game 10 fine. But this was the same stupid shit about Andrew Thomas.
Please tell me who didnt suck ass against the Cowboys.
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Glad to see Glowinski sitting, though. He's cooked.
So was Kevin Zeitler when the Giants cut ties with him, wasn't he?
I think cutting Zeitler was more cap related. I never saw him look as bad as glowinski has.
No backtracking now
Stick to you guns man
Yes, we expected him to play batter
But he didn’t
So you want to sit him
I don’t
No need to backtrack
There is no backtracking. You have a comprehension problem.
Again, I didn't say we should permanently stop using Neal. I said it may not be a bad idea to sit him. And it shouldn't take a high level of intellect to understand what sitting means...
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OK, bw, you're on record
I'm on record that Neal will develop into a solid starter at RT by the end of this season and a plus starter by next season
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Sorry bw - you did say just sit him for now
I think that would kill his confidence, not help him, but it’s a valid opinion
We both hope he’s the long-term answer at right tackle, but that does remains to be seen
Yes, you’re right
Find out if they can play, otherwise our draft strategy has to refocus on the OL.
Certainly will be taking a guard in draft/FA next year.....if these 2nd year guys can show progress - and by progress I mean play at a competent level - it will be a step in the right direction.
2 are locked in.
Eveybody else needs to be put on notice. I think that message is being heard (ie the benching of Glow).
If Neal doesn't improve and the coaching staff feels that Ezeudu gives them a better chance to compete - they need to do it, even if Neal is a top 5 pick.
The offense isn't competing right now b/c of the OL - does Jones miss some throws, sure...do the receiving weapons need to be more dependable, sure...the OL is the biggest hold up to this team competing - to my eyes it's pretty obvious.
Agreed, when the OL can become dependable it allows the offense in other areas to be granted some forgiveness on errors made.
OL has to lead the way.
McKethan has played in two NFL games and there are folks on this thread who are ready move on.
Use your freaking heads.
BTW, Eric my earlier comment was not meant to imply we should move on from McKethan. It's just that at this moment he is subpar, at best.
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In comment 16222007 bw in dc said:
Per PFF, Neal ranks 66 out of 67 tackles in the NFL thus far in 2023. Perhaps Neal will one days develop into a "solid starter", but he's a total liability right now and sitting might be the best thing for him.
Yes, you are on record as to why you want to give up on him
I’d point out he went against Parsons and Bosa in parts of 2 of the 3 games
But you have your opinion
I have mine
I'm not giving up on Neal. I never said that. What I said was sitting him might not be a bad idea. Not the entire season, but a few games...
Neal is a lottery pick. Parsons was a lottery pick. Bosa was a lottery pick. I would expect our lottery pick to be able to compete effectively. Isn't that why he was a lottery pick?
I actually saw some signs of life from Neal against Bosa. I'm not ready to give up on him. The guy shifted all over the place in college. Missed a good chunk of his rookie year. Missed a lot of camp. Fingers crossed
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what is rotting the brains of fans?
McKethan has played in two NFL games and there are folks on this thread who are ready move on.
Use your freaking heads.
BTW, Eric my earlier comment was not meant to imply we should move on from McKethan. It's just that at this moment he is subpar, at best.
Still only 2 games. He'll have 50% more game experience next week.
PFF rated Glowinski slightly above average, and he was expected to be that. Unless you think we're tanking the season or Glowinski is screwing Daboll's wife, McKethan just won the RG job over him. Isn't that meaningful considering that Glowinski is still here and healthy.
Find out if they can play, otherwise our draft strategy has to refocus on the OL.
Certainly will be taking a guard in draft/FA next year.....if these 2nd year guys can show progress - and by progress I mean play at a competent level - it will be a step in the right direction.
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In comment 16222010 Eric from BBI said:
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what is rotting the brains of fans?
McKethan has played in two NFL games and there are folks on this thread who are ready move on.
Use your freaking heads.
BTW, Eric my earlier comment was not meant to imply we should move on from McKethan. It's just that at this moment he is subpar, at best.
Still only 2 games. He'll have 50% more game experience next week.
PFF rated Glowinski slightly above average, and he was expected to be that. Unless you think we're tanking the season or Glowinski is screwing Daboll's wife, McKethan just won the RG job over him. Isn't that meaningful considering that Glowinski is still here and healthy.
I think it means he's less crappy thsn glowinski and he has the potential to be much better as the season ptogresses
You want them to be good so bad you'll forget anything you've learned along the way.
"We were ok last year, so we can only get better next year" is a trap some of you fall into every time.
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to get some consistency in this group now that they are in game 4 of the regular season.
The most interesting part of the development is IF Neal downright sucks like he did in the Cowboys game - does Ezeudu replace him in-game AND if he plays well...what happens next.
This is just stupid. If every OT who looked like shit LT and company was demoted it would include some all pros and true studs. Dallas looks to have the best defense in the NFL. Guys stop looks like shit game 10 fine. But this was the same stupid shit about Andrew Thomas.
Please tell me who didnt suck ass against the Cowboys.
Oh yeah - you right
The Cowboys game was the only bad tape Neal put out there
My bad
They've been put through the ringer against Dallas & the 49ers, they(and the team) will be for it. About Glowinski, I think he's just a back-up, (did OK subbing for Brederson at LG) at this point, he "ain't gonna get better".
About Neal, I wish somebody would lock him up in the film room with a pile of baloney sandwiches and four hours of Jon Runyan film showing how big men are supposed to abuse smaller defensive players.
How is it possible for a professional franchise to have such a shitty offensive line for a decade and still counting.
How is it possible for a professional franchise to have such a shitty offensive line for a decade and still counting.
The added problem is they’ve poured lots of resources both with high draft picks and free agency into the OL, they’ve just either picked/signed the wrong guys or can’t develop them or both
All that represents picks and money that weren’t used on other areas of the roster