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When will this team solve the offensive line?

eric2425ny : 9/27/2023 1:36 pm
We are now in year 12 of the offensive line rebuild. Its troubling that we currently have two high first rounders at tackle, a second round center, a third round guard, two fifth round guards, and a low-moderately priced free agent pickup (Glowinski) and the product looks similar to what we saw in the Reese days.

It seemed like there was some glimmer of hope last year, but that is quickly fading. If this line continues to flounder it’s definitely not because of a lack of investment. Is a position coach change needed? I mean you watch other teams block at an average level with way less investment made.
.......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 9/27/2023 1:40 pm : link
It is concerning - yes.

Being on year 12 is irrelevant - seeing how the current regime is on year 2.

2024  
Hilary : 9/27/2023 1:42 pm : link
2024 competent line
AT- Bredeson- JMS- Neal- #1 pick
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2023 1:45 pm : link
2089.
RE: …  
eric2425ny : 9/27/2023 1:47 pm : link
In comment 16223019 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
2089.


Lol, that’s when young Daniel Jones IV will be running the offense.
.  
NYG22 : 9/27/2023 1:51 pm : link
Actually, I am encouraged of the following:

LT: AT being elite

LG: Bredeson being solid

C: JMS present and future

RG: McKethan seems to project as at least solid

As a swing OT and OG, more so the former thus far, Ezeudu gave us reason to be optimistic.

Worrisome:

Neal's poor start/feet0

Injury volume of many of these guys.

Out of sight/mind (thankfully):

Glowinski, Peart, Lemieux
Best unit  
GoBigBlue16to56 : 9/27/2023 1:52 pm : link
I personally think the best unit would be AT,JE,JMT,BB and EN with Peart brought in for heavy short yardage 6th man but it seems we have tried every other combination except that.
Year 12  
BillT : 9/27/2023 2:02 pm : link
Holy ‘effin shit. Yeah, let’s ignore that Schoen was hired before last season and left one viable player on the OL. One! You want to make a bigger point about the franchise you can just repeat what’s been said here a million times. Spare us the year 12 nonsense.
I still wonder if it would have been smart to  
eric2425ny : 9/27/2023 2:03 pm : link
keep Feliciano around for another year. It surprised me when they let him walk presumably without an offer. He can play center and both guard spots so it wouldn’t have been out of left field to keep him around. Not that he was a superstar, but I think he’s just as good if not better than what we are trotting out there at guard right now.
Halley's  
AcidTest : 9/27/2023 2:05 pm : link
Comet returns in 2061. There is a fifty-fifty chance we'll have a competent OL by then. So there is hope.
RE: Year 12  
eric2425ny : 9/27/2023 2:05 pm : link
In comment 16223037 BillT said:
Quote:
Holy ‘effin shit. Yeah, let’s ignore that Schoen was hired before last season and left one viable player on the OL. One! You want to make a bigger point about the franchise you can just repeat what’s been said here a million times. Spare us the year 12 nonsense.


They haven’t had a good line from a league standard perspective in 12 years. It’s not an indictment on Schoen since he’s only had two off seasons. Do you feel this team has had good line play in the last 12 years? I think we’ve been at the bottom for quite some time now vs. the rest of the league.
I would love to give the team as constituted more than 3 games  
AJ23 : 9/27/2023 2:06 pm : link
Declaring 2023 a failure after 3 games in which we started 3 different lines, including in two games against top-five defenses, seems... I don't know... premature?
RE: I would love to give the team as constituted more than 3 games  
Dinger : 9/27/2023 2:13 pm : link
In comment 16223046 AJ23 said:
Quote:
Declaring 2023 a failure after 3 games in which we started 3 different lines, including in two games against top-five defenses, seems... I don't know... premature?

Agreed. and I believe its an unspoken common knowledge that most good OLs take half a season to gel. I take solace in the fact that the staff isn't afraid to change things up. I think you have seen some improvement from week 1 which was an absolute disaster. I felt like they weren't completely overmatched against SF a defense that is as good if not better than Dallas. At least it didn't appear to be a 'jail break' each drop back like week 1. I've been in Neals corner but man he looks like he hasn't really progressed from last year and that is the scariest thing to me. I feel like you could plug in Ezeudu there if he doesn't improve.
It's a little early to pass judgment on McKethan one way or another.  
Ira : 9/27/2023 2:14 pm : link
§
Stop adding the previous ten years of failure  
blueblood : 9/27/2023 2:15 pm : link
to Schoen and Dabolls tenure. They showed up with a bare cupboard and very little cap room to fix it. They drafted two players in round one, added some later round depth (who unfortunately got hurt so this is their rookie season) and secured the best OL long term..

It takes time for a line to Gel. I expect this OL to turn start turning the corner soon..
Collins becomes an option?  
k2tampa : 9/27/2023 2:32 pm : link
La'el Collins passed his physical. Would the Giants be interested?
It might be the most depressing thing as a sports fan  
Essex : 9/27/2023 2:35 pm : link
because without a good one you cant really be competitive against good teams and we have not been in over a decade. It is rather sad. Schoen better fix this within a two more years. This is bordering on insanity.
RE: Year 12  
metlifemylife : 9/27/2023 2:46 pm : link
In comment 16223037 BillT said:
Quote:
Holy ‘effin shit. Yeah, let’s ignore that Schoen was hired before last season and left one viable player on the OL. One! You want to make a bigger point about the franchise you can just repeat what’s been said here a million times. Spare us the year 12 nonsense.


Odd comment so far the only known good linemen was Dave's pick and he's had two off-season.

This felt similar to Ben's year two where they brought in skill players rather than addressing the core problem.

Center, might be good, he also might stink.

They have one good linemen we know for sure is good.
RE: It's a little early to pass judgment on McKethan one way or another.  
Biteymax22 : 9/27/2023 3:37 pm : link
In comment 16223051 Ira said:
Quote:
§


People keep talking about him like we have this huge sample size to go by. He was in camp last year, the coaches apparently really liked him, he tore his ACL, missed the whole season.

Started this preseason on PUP, only got into one preseason game for a handful of snaps, didn't play game one, was starting game 2.

Clearly the staff likes his upside and expects him to get better, but we need to remember, the game against Arizona was his first regular season NFL snaps, he's really still a rookie and should be viewed as such.
it's a losing culture  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/27/2023 3:50 pm : link
not the players, not the coaches...not any of that...

......hard to know exactly why, but none of that...

I think perhaps ownership coddles the players a little too much...players always say they "love" being on the Giants...I don't want them to hate it, but I also don't want the players to feel like...."well I can do anything, these people love me"....I'd rather they think..."I better play my ass of for these people"....and right now, I don't think people want to run through a wall for the team......


a #5 pick followed by a #7 pick and right now, they both look like crap......WHY IS THAT? you think if Evan Neal and K Thibs were drafted by Philadelphia, they would look half as bad as they do right now? Answer......."NOOOO WAY" they'd be all-pro.....now ownership need to figure THAT out......
OL  
stretch234 : 9/27/2023 4:15 pm : link
The owners didn’t make Coughlin play Richburg at G for JD Walton

The owners didn’t make Hernandez look worse every year he was here

The owners have changed GMs who have brought in their own head coaches who have brought in their own OL coaches on multiple occasions and it still is a struggle

Will the light go on with Neal - I believe it will. Bredeson is their best G but can’t stay healthy. Ezeudu and McKethan are what they are - 2nd year players who are cost effective. Right now are they better than Lemieux and Glowinski

At some point some of these guys need to develop.

The Eagles got a HOF C in a late round who keeps playing at a high level. They got incredibly lucky with the LT and Dickerson has been healthier in the NFL than in college
I think they  
JayBid : 9/27/2023 4:47 pm : link
Are well on their way. Thomas and JMS will be fixtures. We really need Neal to develop this year.

I do not agree that Neal has poor feet. I the issue I see with him is his timing on his punch. Masking him too heavily or delayed at times. He’s too indecisive when making his initial punch, in fear of giving the edge or a counter move to the inside. He’s hesitant and jerky before contact, sometimes. I have hope that he will get more comfortable and settle into his own.
RE: I think they  
metlifemylife : 9/27/2023 5:26 pm : link
In comment 16223202 JayBid said:
Quote:
Are well on their way. Thomas and JMS will be fixtures. We really need Neal to develop this year.

I do not agree that Neal has poor feet. I the issue I see with him is his timing on his punch. Masking him too heavily or delayed at times. He’s too indecisive when making his initial punch, in fear of giving the edge or a counter move to the inside. He’s hesitant and jerky before contact, sometimes. I have hope that he will get more comfortable and settle into his own.
how could you possibly know JMS is a fixture?

On the one hand your hoping Neal develops on the other after 3 games you are assuming JMS is a fixture?

That makes no sense.
The JonC has answered this question 100 times over 12 years  
Larry in Pencilvania : 9/27/2023 5:55 pm : link
Once this team can self scout and is able to identify their errors then they will be able to fix the line. Until then it will continue to be a comedy of errors. Not a very funny one
Kafka….playcalling  
thrunthrublue : 9/27/2023 6:46 pm : link
Is so un creatively predictable, right down to the snap count because opposing teams surprisingly not fooled by “GO”. The miserable and current pattern is to win the coin toss….defer…they run through many missed tackles, and score a quick 7. Now…first down, run up the middle for no gain. Second down, gadget play, lose 6 yards. Third down sixteen….Danny sacked for eight yard loss, or he completes short pass almost to original line of scrimmage…while one or two receivers are overlooked and wide open….oh well, punt (if not blocked) they get the ball back…rinse and repeat. To quote the great LT…”Son….ya’ll gotta do better than that…”. And…they do.
RE: RE: I think they  
JayBid : 9/27/2023 8:36 pm : link
In comment 16223214 metlifemylife said:
Quote:
In comment 16223202 JayBid said:


Quote:


Are well on their way. Thomas and JMS will be fixtures. We really need Neal to develop this year.

I do not agree that Neal has poor feet. I the issue I see with him is his timing on his punch. Masking him too heavily or delayed at times. He’s too indecisive when making his initial punch, in fear of giving the edge or a counter move to the inside. He’s hesitant and jerky before contact, sometimes. I have hope that he will get more comfortable and settle into his own.

how could you possibly know JMS is a fixture?

On the one hand your hoping Neal develops on the other after 3 games you are assuming JMS is a fixture?

That makes no sense.


Because after 3 games he’s adequate. You hope for more, but that’s enough at the center position. Neal has yet to show even adequate.
RE: RE: RE: I think they  
metlifemylife : 9/27/2023 10:56 pm : link
In comment 16223320 JayBid said:
Quote:
In comment 16223214 metlifemylife said:


Quote:


In comment 16223202 JayBid said:


Quote:


Are well on their way. Thomas and JMS will be fixtures. We really need Neal to develop this year.

I do not agree that Neal has poor feet. I the issue I see with him is his timing on his punch. Masking him too heavily or delayed at times. He’s too indecisive when making his initial punch, in fear of giving the edge or a counter move to the inside. He’s hesitant and jerky before contact, sometimes. I have hope that he will get more comfortable and settle into his own.

how could you possibly know JMS is a fixture?

On the one hand your hoping Neal develops on the other after 3 games you are assuming JMS is a fixture?

That makes no sense.



Because after 3 games he’s adequate. You hope for more, but that’s enough at the center position. Neal has yet to show even adequate.
so if your adequate for 3 games like JMS you are a long term piece, bur if you stink for 13 14 games like Neal you can still be good?

That's homeroom bro. Both Neal and JMS are unknowns. I hope both pan out. But they are both unknowns right now.
What are you talking about  
JayBid : 9/27/2023 11:21 pm : link
Center and Tackle are two very different positions. JMS will have a lot longer leash than Neal, and has already shown to be adequate against two of the best lines in football. Yes, that’s a building block….

Neal plays a much harder position. He has the attributes that not many players have. Yes, he still obviously has a chance to turn it around.
they need to give bill callahan a blank check  
Eric on Li : 9/27/2023 11:22 pm : link
they've needed to do that like 5 years ago actually.
one cannot simply say  
fkap : 9/28/2023 2:35 pm : link
Schoen has only been here 2 years, and ignore the prior 10.

One has to evaluate the decision making process for the whole period.

Are the same scouts in the group?

Are any of the Maras (or other top end decision makers) front and center throughout?

Schoen took over the head office. That doesn't mean the office is completely new. IF he's gutted and outfitted the office in a new fashion, then maybe we can hope for improvement in the talent acquisition. IF he has maintained the the chain, hoping a little tweaking is the right move,I'm thinking the same flawed thinking that has failed time and time again will fail again.

Yes, we have to wait another year or two or three to see if the Schoen regime is the real deal, but I think the movement behind the curtain is a good indicator.

There's been articles about Schoen revamping the scouting department. I'm thinking some have been retained, some thrown out the door. If the ones who have been retained have been part of the shitty OL talent evaluation process, then don't hold your breath.
I think this week will be an interesting test.  
Matt M. : 9/28/2023 2:47 pm : link
This week has 4/5 of the Opening OL intact, with McKethan replacing Glowinski at RG. See if McKethan shows improvement from his first start to the next. See if Neal benefits from having him at RG.

This OL had a legit shot of being the OL at some point anyway. It is still a little early to be calling Neal a bust, but it's getting close. So, let's see if this OL looks better first. I'm still highly optimistic about McKethan first and Ezeudu second. I thought both were steals in the draft last year.

As for Neal, going into the draft, nobody would have thought he would still be there for them at #7. He was, at times, considered a possibility for #1 overall. So taking him at #7 was really a no brainer, in my opinion. At the very least, it's not a reason to vilify Schoen. Maybe that's a reason to look more closely at coaching and the player himself. But, he still may turn it around. He did show some signs last year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think they  
HBart : 9/28/2023 9:28 pm : link
In comment 16223409 metlifemylife said:
Quote:
In comment 16223320 JayBid said:


Quote:


In comment 16223214 metlifemylife said:


Quote:


In comment 16223202 JayBid said:


Quote:


Are well on their way. Thomas and JMS will be fixtures. We really need Neal to develop this year.

I do not agree that Neal has poor feet. I the issue I see with him is his timing on his punch. Masking him too heavily or delayed at times. He’s too indecisive when making his initial punch, in fear of giving the edge or a counter move to the inside. He’s hesitant and jerky before contact, sometimes. I have hope that he will get more comfortable and settle into his own.

how could you possibly know JMS is a fixture?

On the one hand your hoping Neal develops on the other after 3 games you are assuming JMS is a fixture?

That makes no sense.



Because after 3 games he’s adequate. You hope for more, but that’s enough at the center position. Neal has yet to show even adequate.

so if your adequate for 3 games like JMS you are a long term piece, bur if you stink for 13 14 games like Neal you can still be good?

That's homeroom bro. Both Neal and JMS are unknowns. I hope both pan out. But they are both unknowns right now.

Yes. High floor vs high ceiling. High degree of difficulty vs low. Different players, different situations.
On the plus side  
Jersey Heel : 9/28/2023 9:58 pm : link
I bet 75% of NFL fan bases think their team needs to improve their O-line. It seems many QBs are running for their lives out there.
Pretty sure...  
Brown_Hornet : 9/28/2023 11:08 pm : link
...that the OLine was fixed today.

Great timing.
It's still early, hang in there  
JonC : 9/29/2023 3:48 pm : link
I will say this is why you need to be very careful about drafting or signing certain positions heavily out of need.
Our best bet for this year and beyond: work in the youth  
SGMen : 9/29/2023 8:52 pm : link
Thomas-Brederson-JMS-McEthan-Neal this Monday night and if they hold up every week thereafter with Ezedeu backing up four spots and inevitably getting playing time.

If this young group performs well there is hope. But if Neal is so-so along with McEthan and Brederson we will have a long year indeed. I think Thomas and JMS are the foundation.
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