Looking to get holiday.
Holiday has this left on his deal at 36 million and an player opt out next. He would be a great fit next to Brunson especially on the defensive end but it would be a lot to give up for a 1 year rental does it get us any closer?
And I'd deal RJ for him. I get the trickiness of the age/contract thing, and it's very fair to say that's a deal breaker. However he's the type of needle mover that can make us competitive with both Boston and Philly in a playoff series as the rosters are currently constituted. Not saying he vaults us over them, but it gives us a much better chance to compete with and beat them. I feel it's a gamble worth taking. The guy is a 15-18ppg all NBA defender who's not afraid to take and make big shots. You don't think if you put Holiday on the Knicks last spring we could have beat Miami? And they made the finals. Sometimes you have to take risks. Boston and Philly appear to be heavy in on him. How much longer should we sit around and watch the East contenders move and shake to get better while we just sit around?
I would trade Jrue to the 6ers for Harden and a pick and a swap. And then I try to rehabilitate Harden and trade him at the deadline too.
If you can get another pick or two for him, you're basically just flipping players for picks. Worse case is that he is a cancer and you just buy him out before the end of his contract this year. But Harden needs to play well or he's getting the Westbrook treatment next offseason, so I think he'll be on his best behavior.
What would the package be for him? Is it RJ and maybe one protected 1st? The age difference hurts but I'm pulling the trigger on that deal. But I'm not giving up "superstar package" for Holiday.
But at some point the Knicks need to make a big move and cash in on these assets. Because before you know it Brunson and Randle will need new deals...
unless Portland is taking Brogdon from Celtics or Pj Tucker from the Sixers and even then they are so top heavy they have to send 3 or 4 guys
Doesn't Harden's salary match Jrue's almost exactly?
Bit why would portkabd take Harden unless it could be a 3 team trade eith the clippers? and they are getting a couple of 1sts maybe a yiing player...
Problem for the trailblazers a lot of the teams that woukd want Holiday just dont have the salary or the young players or draft capital to make it work
if the 6ers gave them a swap and a pick. Or a Pick with Harden, they could just play him for 3-4 months and rehabilitate him and trade him for another 1st or a swap or something. It's just flipping assets. Morey feels like he can't trade Harden unless it's for a star or whatever, but Portland's GM doesn't have some line in the sand. They'll take whatever they can for him, or he just expires and they get the assets from the 6ers. Feels like a no brainer to me.
NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
if the 6ers gave them a swap and a pick. Or a Pick with Harden, they could just play him for 3-4 months and rehabilitate him and trade him for another 1st or a swap or something. It's just flipping assets. Morey feels like he can't trade Harden unless it's for a star or whatever, but Portland's GM doesn't have some line in the sand. They'll take whatever they can for him, or he just expires and they get the assets from the 6ers. Feels like a no brainer to me.
What you're talking about is a solution if Portland has nobody besides Philly interested. However by all accounts there are multiple suiters. Why would they settle for a guy they have no interest in keeping just to maybe be able to flip (if by chance he shows up in shape for a change) and actually tries for a non contender when he wouldn't even do that for multiple title contenders in recent years?
NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
I dont think I'd generally choose Ayton over Herro but for the Blazers roster it makes a lot more sense.
They got 1 unprotected FRP and 2 swaps, so now it comes down to how many more they get for Jrue. I think i'd take the over on 2 more unprotected. If Miami wants Jrue as reported it will likely cost them at least 2 of those same FRP's + caleb martin.
also the Miami offer didnt include dumping Nurkic, which was probably a negative value asset = to a FRP they were thrilled to dump.
NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
Note that that doesn't say whether or not there were protections on the picks and what years they were. If they were this upcoming years they'd not be worth much.
if the 6ers gave them a swap and a pick. Or a Pick with Harden, they could just play him for 3-4 months and rehabilitate him and trade him for another 1st or a swap or something. It's just flipping assets. Morey feels like he can't trade Harden unless it's for a star or whatever, but Portland's GM doesn't have some line in the sand. They'll take whatever they can for him, or he just expires and they get the assets from the 6ers. Feels like a no brainer to me.
What you're talking about is a solution if Portland has nobody besides Philly interested. However by all accounts there are multiple suiters. Why would they settle for a guy they have no interest in keeping just to maybe be able to flip (if by chance he shows up in shape for a change) and actually tries for a non contender when he wouldn't even do that for multiple title contenders in recent years?
yea, obviously if they can get more from other teams, they should do those deals instead. Just saying that if they made that deal with the 6ers it doesn't necessarily have to be to keep Harden. The contracts just match up perfectly and they wouldn't be on the line for additional salary. Or they could continue to flip assets.
portland played this pretty impressively. it would be surprising if they dont get a good return for him.
if jakob poetl as a rental brought back 1 FRP and 2 seconds, have to think jrue is going to bring back at least 2 FRPs. brogdon trade last year another comp this trade return should exceed.
Lineup would be unplayable. Jrue isn’t a catch and shoot guy or a quick decision maker, that’s not what the Knicks lack right now.
I haven’t looked it up so I have no idea if it’s true but they were talking about how perfect a fit Jrue is for the Knicks this morning on First Take and they mentioned that he shot 45% on catch and shoot 3s last season. Again, I can’t verify the accuracy of that yet but if it’s true that’s not bad at all
A game. I don’t think Jrue is a good enough primary initiator to be the on ball guy with Brunson off it. Unless the trade has a follow up of Embiid coming over the offense would be too clunky in the backcourt
For reference RJ had 4 catch and shoot opportunities
And Grimes had 5 last year. From a scoring perspective Jrue doesn’t do what they’re looking for in a third option next to Brunson and Randle. They need a poor man’s Klay Thompson.
NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
I am heartbroken. Gonna be hard for me to even watch the NBA this season knowing Miami was left at the alter....
Portland just became my second favorite NBA team of all time. All they had to do was say no, and they did. Kudos Portland....kudos.
NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
Of course because the Miami picks are almost always outside the lottery as they are usually in the playoffs. The Blazers would be getting Herro and a bunch of non-lottery picks and giving up Dame
Exactly. Miami has been trying to include Herro as the “headliner” in deals for a star for two years now. Nobody wants him. Hell, Miami clearly doesn’t even want him
Mortgaging the future for 1 year of Holiday
You can't move RJ, Grimes or IQ for 1 year maybe you could do Hartenstein, Fournier and some picks but I don't think he gets you a championship this year so why do it.
GS, Philly, Boston, Miami make sense because he can be the piece to deliver a championship.
Mortgaging the future for 1 year of Holiday
You can't move RJ, Grimes or IQ for 1 year maybe you could do Hartenstein, Fournier and some picks but I don't think he gets you a championship this year so why do it.
GS, Philly, Boston, Miami make sense because he can be the piece to deliver a championship.
What does mortgaging the future even mean? As Knicks fans we’ve been kicking the can down the road for our entire lives, waiting for the future. The future never comes. Holliday is a fantastic player and if they can get him, they should absolutely try to get him. Giving up Grimes in a deal for a future hall of gamer is a no brainer. Knicks fans continue to overvalue our own as we just keep being satisfied waiting for “the future”
Quick is going to be traded eventually even if he gets a new deal, he is going to be a piece being traded..
I wouldnt trade Grimes in a deal becauae his fit next to Brunson is perfect..
if it was Fournier, Quick, and Hartenstein plus a protected pick for Holiday i would do it..It would actually hurt more to trade Hartenstein in my opinion..
I like Grimes, but some people here act like he's the next Jordan. It is weird.
Yeah I don’t get it. Overrating Grimes and criminally underrating Holiday. Every time a potential move comes up fans act like that’s the one and only move that will be done. The Knicks would still have the assets to make another big move. Holiday instantly makes this team much better. And wouldn’t eliminate them from other moves
As much better as some think for the reasons above. Holliday is a good player but the pieces still have to fit. Otherwise you end up like Cleveland or Atlanta.
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
As much better as some think for the reasons above. Holliday is a good player but the pieces still have to fit. Otherwise you end up like Cleveland or Atlanta.
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
Why would Portland want Robert Williams or Brogdon? that makes no sense..
Can GS even offer Paul? and Kuminga is so overrated..
As much better as some think for the reasons above. Holliday is a good player but the pieces still have to fit. Otherwise you end up like Cleveland or Atlanta.
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
I’m not surprised the Knicks won’t be in it but why would Portland want Paul or Brogdon? Sure they could flip for for some mediocre picks but I find it hard to believe Portland would prioritize GS and Boston picks over the picks other teams can offer. Paul and Brogdon aren’t going to bring back a haul if they flip them. Weirder things have happened but those offers don’t seem to make any sense for where Portland is. To me at least
I just don’t think trading IQ for Holiday is a big upgrade or a smart trade. Maybe I’m overrating what IQ is and will be, but I’m keeping him unless we’re getting back something close to ridiculous, which would entail giving up more than just IQ. That’s fine. I think it’s possible that IQ isn’t even a finished product. Let him grow here. He’s got a wonderful skill set.
As much better as some think for the reasons above. Holliday is a good player but the pieces still have to fit. Otherwise you end up like Cleveland or Atlanta.
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
Why would Portland want Robert Williams or Brogdon? that makes no sense..
Can GS even offer Paul? and Kuminga is so overrated..
and Holiday fits perfectly with the Knicks..
He doesn’t though unless there are follow up moves
It’s not a big enough part of his game to be a good fit without Randle or RJ being flipped for another 4.
Look at how many catch and shoot attempts RJ and Grimes have. The offense would be too clunky with Jrue, Hart, Randle, Mitch which would be your likely closing 5.
Holiday has this left on his deal at 36 million and an player opt out next. He would be a great fit next to Brunson especially on the defensive end but it would be a lot to give up for a 1 year rental does it get us any closer?
If you can get another pick or two for him, you're basically just flipping players for picks. Worse case is that he is a cancer and you just buy him out before the end of his contract this year. But Harden needs to play well or he's getting the Westbrook treatment next offseason, so I think he'll be on his best behavior.
But at some point the Knicks need to make a big move and cash in on these assets. Because before you know it Brunson and Randle will need new deals...
Doesn't Harden's salary match Jrue's almost exactly?
Quote:
unless Portland is taking Brogdon from Celtics or Pj Tucker from the Sixers and even then they are so top heavy they have to send 3 or 4 guys
Doesn't Harden's salary match Jrue's almost exactly?
Bit why would portkabd take Harden unless it could be a 3 team trade eith the clippers? and they are getting a couple of 1sts maybe a yiing player...
Problem for the trailblazers a lot of the teams that woukd want Holiday just dont have the salary or the young players or draft capital to make it work
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
What you're talking about is a solution if Portland has nobody besides Philly interested. However by all accounts there are multiple suiters. Why would they settle for a guy they have no interest in keeping just to maybe be able to flip (if by chance he shows up in shape for a change) and actually tries for a non contender when he wouldn't even do that for multiple title contenders in recent years?
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
I dont think I'd generally choose Ayton over Herro but for the Blazers roster it makes a lot more sense.
They got 1 unprotected FRP and 2 swaps, so now it comes down to how many more they get for Jrue. I think i'd take the over on 2 more unprotected. If Miami wants Jrue as reported it will likely cost them at least 2 of those same FRP's + caleb martin.
also the Miami offer didnt include dumping Nurkic, which was probably a negative value asset = to a FRP they were thrilled to dump.
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
Note that that doesn't say whether or not there were protections on the picks and what years they were. If they were this upcoming years they'd not be worth much.
Quote:
if the 6ers gave them a swap and a pick. Or a Pick with Harden, they could just play him for 3-4 months and rehabilitate him and trade him for another 1st or a swap or something. It's just flipping assets. Morey feels like he can't trade Harden unless it's for a star or whatever, but Portland's GM doesn't have some line in the sand. They'll take whatever they can for him, or he just expires and they get the assets from the 6ers. Feels like a no brainer to me.
What you're talking about is a solution if Portland has nobody besides Philly interested. However by all accounts there are multiple suiters. Why would they settle for a guy they have no interest in keeping just to maybe be able to flip (if by chance he shows up in shape for a change) and actually tries for a non contender when he wouldn't even do that for multiple title contenders in recent years?
yea, obviously if they can get more from other teams, they should do those deals instead. Just saying that if they made that deal with the 6ers it doesn't necessarily have to be to keep Harden. The contracts just match up perfectly and they wouldn't be on the line for additional salary. Or they could continue to flip assets.
Hart and Grimes can play the 3 no?
Quote:
Doesn’t make sense if it has to include RJ and no forward coming back. Knicks would be too guard heavy
Hart and Grimes can play the 3 no?
of course they can. And Jrue and IQ have the length to guard bigger players. I think they'd have a top 5 defense.
@TheDunkCentral
·
13m
Golden State could quickly become a frontrunner for Jrue Holiday, per @SIChrisMannix
if jakob poetl as a rental brought back 1 FRP and 2 seconds, have to think jrue is going to bring back at least 2 FRPs. brogdon trade last year another comp this trade return should exceed.
I haven’t looked it up so I have no idea if it’s true but they were talking about how perfect a fit Jrue is for the Knicks this morning on First Take and they mentioned that he shot 45% on catch and shoot 3s last season. Again, I can’t verify the accuracy of that yet but if it’s true that’s not bad at all
Jrue played off of Giannis and was very good off catch and shoot...
Brunson is one of the better catch and shoot players in the NBA so if Jrue had the ball that would work to
Unplayable? Can't agree with that.
Holiday adds a secondary ball handler, good 3pt shooting, and one of the best defenders in the league.
If there is a opportunity to get this guy, the Knicks should take it and I wouldn't let RJ be a deal breaker.
With Giannis most likely staying put, who is the next star for the knicks to dream about? Any chance Luka asks out?
Yeah, and while they're at it, get Tatum, Doncic and Wembayana.
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
I am heartbroken. Gonna be hard for me to even watch the NBA this season knowing Miami was left at the alter....
Portland just became my second favorite NBA team of all time. All they had to do was say no, and they did. Kudos Portland....kudos.
@TheDunkCentral
·
23m
The Miami Heat were willing to offer Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, 3 first-round picks, first-round pick swaps and multiple second-round picks for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania
The Blazers had little to no interest in engaging in a deal
Of course because the Miami picks are almost always outside the lottery as they are usually in the playoffs. The Blazers would be getting Herro and a bunch of non-lottery picks and giving up Dame
Haha. That ship has sailed, for the time being @ least. Their owner is all in winning a title.
Exactly. Miami has been trying to include Herro as the “headliner” in deals for a star for two years now. Nobody wants him. Hell, Miami clearly doesn’t even want him
You can't move RJ, Grimes or IQ for 1 year maybe you could do Hartenstein, Fournier and some picks but I don't think he gets you a championship this year so why do it.
GS, Philly, Boston, Miami make sense because he can be the piece to deliver a championship.
You can't move RJ, Grimes or IQ for 1 year maybe you could do Hartenstein, Fournier and some picks but I don't think he gets you a championship this year so why do it.
GS, Philly, Boston, Miami make sense because he can be the piece to deliver a championship.
What does mortgaging the future even mean? As Knicks fans we’ve been kicking the can down the road for our entire lives, waiting for the future. The future never comes. Holliday is a fantastic player and if they can get him, they should absolutely try to get him. Giving up Grimes in a deal for a future hall of gamer is a no brainer. Knicks fans continue to overvalue our own as we just keep being satisfied waiting for “the future”
I wouldnt trade Grimes in a deal becauae his fit next to Brunson is perfect..
if it was Fournier, Quick, and Hartenstein plus a protected pick for Holiday i would do it..It would actually hurt more to trade Hartenstein in my opinion..
This is a win now mode team..
Yeah I don’t get it. Overrating Grimes and criminally underrating Holiday. Every time a potential move comes up fans act like that’s the one and only move that will be done. The Knicks would still have the assets to make another big move. Holiday instantly makes this team much better. And wouldn’t eliminate them from other moves
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
Why would Portland want Robert Williams or Brogdon? that makes no sense..
Can GS even offer Paul? and Kuminga is so overrated..
and Holiday fits perfectly with the Knicks..
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
I’m not surprised the Knicks won’t be in it but why would Portland want Paul or Brogdon? Sure they could flip for for some mediocre picks but I find it hard to believe Portland would prioritize GS and Boston picks over the picks other teams can offer. Paul and Brogdon aren’t going to bring back a haul if they flip them. Weirder things have happened but those offers don’t seem to make any sense for where Portland is. To me at least
I don't over value our current players, just would not trade them for a rental that doesn't push us over the top
Quote:
As much better as some think for the reasons above. Holliday is a good player but the pieces still have to fit. Otherwise you end up like Cleveland or Atlanta.
It’s going to be moot, all indications from the people I’ve spoken to say the Knicks likely won’t match what Boston and GSW have offered. Boston has offered Robert Williams, Brogdon and picks and GSW has offered Paul, Kuminga and picks
Why would Portland want Robert Williams or Brogdon? that makes no sense..
Can GS even offer Paul? and Kuminga is so overrated..
and Holiday fits perfectly with the Knicks..
He doesn’t though unless there are follow up moves
He sbot almost 40% from 3 and 45% on catch shoot..
Brunson can also play on or off the ball offensively..
So i dont get how he doesnt fit, he is the definition of what you want next to Brunson
Look at how many catch and shoot attempts RJ and Grimes have. The offense would be too clunky with Jrue, Hart, Randle, Mitch which would be your likely closing 5.