- Doesnt wrap up when tackling - bad in zone, and doesnt shed blocks well.
To be fair, the sample size is small and they havent used him in a variety of roles. I think he could be a really excellent 3rd down player. The problem is that every fan imagines him fixing a variety of our issues because of his versalitity...
Run defense sucks?
"Bench McFadden, play Simmons in base"
Pass rush sucks?
"Put Simmons on the edge and let him rush"
Covering middle of the field an issue?
"Stick Simmons out there and let him cover their best inside weapon".
None of it truly will fix the problem - its more of the fact that hes a new toy we havent seen yet. I do hope they find a consistent role for him and he sees more snaps - but theres a real chance hes an ineffective with us as we was with AZ. I want to see some creativity in his usage.
His speed and physicality really jumps out at you,
I feel like if he could be put in with a very specified purpose like pass rushing, qb spies and zone d with a focus on limiting gains on screens, and rbs/tight ends then he could really be noticed more. Time will tell, but I love his athleticism.
He's shown amazing everything, not all at once. No clear picture of what he offers. I think (hope) that's largely due to the rest of the defense, and he's making mistakes a newbie would make too. Also, a winning atmosphere and some attitude on defense would go a long way with him. He hustles. He's capable of being superhuman but needs to fit in a working scheme.
Like he is a guy who doesn't like contact, especially when he's not the one initiating it. Watch his highlight videos. On virtually every play he is running free and not touched. In other words, they are plays most players would make.
He always seems to arm tackle rather than squaring up and delivery a hit. It's almost like he's a cover CB in and LBs' body.
51. Pretty hard to have thoughts, even early ones, on 51 snaps over 3 games.
That's my sense as well. I'm struck, but not surprised by how little he's played.
I was a little skeptical of the initial response by some in the media and some on this site who thought he was going to step right in and not only play, but play many positions.
I've seen him most, play a linebacker position drop into a zone and come up to tackle the back or tight end before the sticks. Looks like he has been able to close fast.
I think his speed blitzing also adds a good dimension.
I wasn't expecting a world beater but for an underperforming defense, he is not the worry. If we can do a better job on 1st and 2nd downs, he'll probably play a bigger role.
Here are the weaknesses from his draft profile. Guess what? They are still weaknesses:
-Instincts near the line of scrimmage are a work in progress
-Delayed read and respond as inside linebacker
-Hasn't figured out angles and timing as downhill linebacker yet
-Needs to learn to play off blocks
-Has issues getting unglued from blocking tight ends
-Will lose contain duties from time to time
-Doesn't have early speed burst from transitions in man
-Leggy short-area footwork in change of direction
Not terribly instinctive, doesn't have great hips, is athletic, fast, and long so he has some makeup ability. But, to me he looks more like a safety and much less a LB due to not being terribly physical.
Not terribly instinctive, doesn't have great hips, is athletic, fast, and long so he has some makeup ability. But, to me he looks more like a safety and much less a LB due to not being terribly physical.
The physicality difference between McFadden and Simmons jumps off the screen.
I fear positionless refers to lack of place in the NFL, rather than need for a label.
Hopefully with more reps his place becomes more clear.
and able to play more than one spot. But, some players might not have one position they're able to play well, let alone a few. I'd think Wink would like to see Simmons play a role similar to Leonard Floyd, for example. Get him up on the edge playing downhill. But, I don't think Simmons want to mix it up with the big dogs. If he wants to play in space, I'm not sure he's got the hips to play pure safety, so then what. He would seem a candidate to play the joker spot, but I haven't seen it on gameday yet. Wink's got a lot on his plate right now. The very young secondary has talent and instincts, but they're playing like a group of rookies so far.
Not terribly instinctive, doesn't have great hips, is athletic, fast, and long so he has some makeup ability. But, to me he looks more like a safety and much less a LB due to not being terribly physical.
You could have been describing Fred Warner, a similar but lesser athletic comp. Same rap out of the draft -- role player not thick enough for traditional LB. But he's been on the field constantly since day one.
Concerned about Jone's legs, the 49ers had Warner spying Jones (despite spying being out of vogue). Worked out well. We'll likely see that with Simmons this week against Smith and later with Allen and Hurts.
Simmons is a matchup guy; once he's up to speed he should play lots of snaps with role varying by game. He'll make an impact but it's too early to say if he's on the field closer to 50% or 100%
Warner has proven to be terrificly instinctive and violent
I don't know why they don't line him up where Ojulari never plays. To the degree you can -- within reason -- let him play how he played at Clemson. Let him freelance. Tell him to line up in whatever gap looks good, and Go get the ball.
He's not Parsons, but he has a skill set where you could deploy him like Parsons as a pass rusher.
The first time Simmons crashed down on the quarterback and a running back blew by him, I bet a lot of fans would feel the same way they do about Ojulari.
simmons was never an instinctive linebacker and those are traits
that dont get learned or appear, you either have lb instincts or you dont.
his success has always been tied to being a violent explosive athlete with length who covers a lot ground. id say we've seen that on a bunch of his 51 snaps but like the rest of the defense it hasnt translated into splash plays.
he does have 5 stops and 0 missed tackles on his 51 snaps which translate to the highest tackling grade on the team, which seems notable given how poor the tackling has been across the defense (also one of the higher graded players on the defense in general). jihad ward has 2 tackles and 0 stops in more than twice as many snaps. ximines has 1 tackle, 1 missed tackle, and 1 stop in 45 snaps. those were the 2 specific snap allotments I was hoping he'd upgrade bc they are probably the weakest positional depth on the roster, and he's outplayed them but thats not saying much since the edge play has been maybe the biggest weakness of the defense. combined the 3 of them have played just over 200 snaps with simmons getting 25% of them, i think that % needs to be higher for him even once ojulari comes back. i dont care if it becomes predictable, but id rather not see thibodeaux in coverage any more. if you are going to threaten and then drop an edge into a zone it may as well be simmons.
16 of his 51 snaps are pass rushes which is encouraging, 11 of them are considered from outside DL position (edge), though id still like to see him get those chances more over ximines and ward because those guys have continued to show absolutely nothing. last year he had 110 snaps from that alignment. it may be a long shot whether or not he can hold up as more of a pure rusher and id agree his more ideal deployment is a joker type of position but on this roster they may not have a choice especially if ojulari is out.
The first time Simmons crashed down on the quarterback and a running back blew by him, I bet a lot of fans would feel the same way they do about Ojulari.
does anyone have a big problem with ojulari other than the fact that he cant stay on the field?
he's not a perfect player but he's not invisible like ximines or ward. or unfortunately thibodeaux so far this year. but last year in the rare events where he played he was the opposite of invisible.
The first time Simmons crashed down on the quarterback and a running back blew by him, I bet a lot of fans would feel the same way they do about Ojulari.
does anyone have a big problem with ojulari other than the fact that he cant stay on the field?
he's not a perfect player but he's not invisible like ximines or ward. or unfortunately thibodeaux so far this year. but last year in the rare events where he played he was the opposite of invisible.
I'm referring to the myriad threads the poster Angel Eyes and a few others have littered, bemoaning how often Ojulari crashes and loses contain on running backs.
I'm not sure what the concept of invisibility has to do with anything.
I'll include Kayvon and Simmons here.... you'd expect that speed and athleticism would have them flying around the field making At Least Impressive Mistakes, if not great athletic plays. If they have their feet tied to the ground based on scheme, that's a very big issue. Being as Wink has a reputation for utilizing High Gain Talent, I'm more suspicious that these guys may be very much overrated as both athletes and Football Players.
Not terribly instinctive, doesn't have great hips, is athletic, fast, and long so he has some makeup ability. But, to me he looks more like a safety and much less a LB due to not being terribly physical.
I agree with this completely. His lower half can not support being at the second level. He’s just not physical enough. Not even close.
He also doesn’t have the luxury of learning one position. He has to learn CB,NB,LB,S and that isn’t easily done within a months time.
I know the Giants Love Pinnocks athletic ability, but I don’t think he’s played well and would like to see Dane or Simmons take over that role, with Simmons coming down to LB on obvious passing situations.
Not terribly instinctive, doesn't have great hips, is athletic, fast, and long so he has some makeup ability. But, to me he looks more like a safety and much less a LB due to not being terribly physical.
I agree with this completely. His lower half can not support being at the second level. He’s just not physical enough. Not even close.
He also doesn’t have the luxury of learning one position. He has to learn CB,NB,LB,S and that isn’t easily done within a months time.
I know the Giants Love Pinnocks athletic ability, but I don’t think he’s played well and would like to see Dane or Simmons take over that role, with Simmons coming down to LB on obvious passing situations.
Well, what Simmon's said is Wink asked him to learn play concepts to execute from different alignments rather than learn multiple positions. And Simmons liked that.
Instinctive is a nice label but it requires knowledge. Look at Okereke. He's always been called an instinctive player who finds the football and gets there fast. He shows that on half his plays here, but he's hesitant on the other half. Simmmons may not earn the instinctive label as a key trait, but it's early to write that off. And his athleticism can cover up a lot.
Early returns? After 12 quarters in a new system. Unbelievable.
BTW, Simmon's tackles per snap in his oh so brief time here is the same as Okereke's and McFaddens. If he were a 7th round pick we'd be ecstatic. His performance as a newbie has been as or more sold than any returning vet except the DTs.
It was a very low risk trade. 7th round picks, or trades, are not busts.
At the same time, don't expect a 7th round pick/trade to be a savior.
What should be expected is maybe the hope of a guy who can make a contribution. He's getting some snaps. He's still learning the system, having been acquired late. The hope is not lost. But the expectations haven't been raised, either.
It was a very low risk trade. 7th round picks, or trades, are not busts.
At the same time, don't expect a 7th round pick/trade to be a savior.
What should be expected is maybe the hope of a guy who can make a contribution. He's getting some snaps. He's still learning the system, having been acquired late. The hope is not lost. But the expectations haven't been raised, either.
It was a very low risk trade. 7th round picks, or trades, are not busts.
At the same time, don't expect a 7th round pick/trade to be a savior.
What should be expected is maybe the hope of a guy who can make a contribution. He's getting some snaps. He's still learning the system, having been acquired late. The hope is not lost. But the expectations haven't been raised, either.
Good post
+1
Say the same for the entire defense. Expectation for better, hope for excellence.
Haha. Kidding.
He's shown flashes, but nothing major. Then again, The entire D has sucked for the most part.
- Doesnt wrap up when tackling - bad in zone, and doesnt shed blocks well.
To be fair, the sample size is small and they havent used him in a variety of roles. I think he could be a really excellent 3rd down player. The problem is that every fan imagines him fixing a variety of our issues because of his versalitity...
Run defense sucks?
"Bench McFadden, play Simmons in base"
Pass rush sucks?
"Put Simmons on the edge and let him rush"
Covering middle of the field an issue?
"Stick Simmons out there and let him cover their best inside weapon".
None of it truly will fix the problem - its more of the fact that hes a new toy we havent seen yet. I do hope they find a consistent role for him and he sees more snaps - but theres a real chance hes an ineffective with us as we was with AZ. I want to see some creativity in his usage.
I might blitz him more. Use Thibs like Dallas uses Parsons and send Simmons off the edge.
He always seems to arm tackle rather than squaring up and delivery a hit. It's almost like he's a cover CB in and LBs' body.
That's my sense as well. I'm struck, but not surprised by how little he's played.
I was a little skeptical of the initial response by some in the media and some on this site who thought he was going to step right in and not only play, but play many positions.
Yes it is only 51 snaps but you would figure if he was that good the DC could find ways to use him.
The question is still there of what exactly is he
I've seen him most, play a linebacker position drop into a zone and come up to tackle the back or tight end before the sticks. Looks like he has been able to close fast.
I think his speed blitzing also adds a good dimension.
I wasn't expecting a world beater but for an underperforming defense, he is not the worry. If we can do a better job on 1st and 2nd downs, he'll probably play a bigger role.
Really, after three games, where the entire defense has underperformed, that s where you re going.
Lol, the jadedness of a decade of losing has really scarred some fans.
-Instincts near the line of scrimmage are a work in progress
-Delayed read and respond as inside linebacker
-Hasn't figured out angles and timing as downhill linebacker yet
-Needs to learn to play off blocks
-Has issues getting unglued from blocking tight ends
-Will lose contain duties from time to time
-Doesn't have early speed burst from transitions in man
-Leggy short-area footwork in change of direction
Quote:
Arizona let him go for a 7th round pick. The Giants might regret giving up that pick for him.
Really, after three games, where the entire defense has underperformed, that s where you re going.
Lol, the jadedness of a decade of losing has really scarred some fans.
The physicality difference between McFadden and Simmons jumps off the screen.
I fear positionless refers to lack of place in the NFL, rather than need for a label.
Hopefully with more reps his place becomes more clear.
Quote:
In comment 16223449 Gman11 said:
Quote:
Arizona let him go for a 7th round pick. The Giants might regret giving up that pick for him.
Really, after three games, where the entire defense has underperformed, that s where you re going.
Lol, the jadedness of a decade of losing has really scarred some fans.
It's reality, my friend. Take a peak out from behind the blue-colored glasses from time to time.
Please do explain to everyone the reality of the value of a 7th round pick. We're all ears!
You could have been describing Fred Warner, a similar but lesser athletic comp. Same rap out of the draft -- role player not thick enough for traditional LB. But he's been on the field constantly since day one.
Concerned about Jone's legs, the 49ers had Warner spying Jones (despite spying being out of vogue). Worked out well. We'll likely see that with Simmons this week against Smith and later with Allen and Hurts.
Simmons is a matchup guy; once he's up to speed he should play lots of snaps with role varying by game. He'll make an impact but it's too early to say if he's on the field closer to 50% or 100%
I don't know why they don't line him up where Ojulari never plays. To the degree you can -- within reason -- let him play how he played at Clemson. Let him freelance. Tell him to line up in whatever gap looks good, and Go get the ball.
He's not Parsons, but he has a skill set where you could deploy him like Parsons as a pass rusher.
Quote:
In comment 16223478 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16223449 Gman11 said:
Quote:
Arizona let him go for a 7th round pick. The Giants might regret giving up that pick for him.
Really, after three games, where the entire defense has underperformed, that s where you re going.
Lol, the jadedness of a decade of losing has really scarred some fans.
It's reality, my friend. Take a peak out from behind the blue-colored glasses from time to time.
Please do explain to everyone the reality of the value of a 7th round pick. We're all ears!
Reality, is reality, until it isn’t. Reality for some posters was down 17-0 to the Cardinals all was lost.
Reality for some was at 0-2 in 2007 the season was over.
Reality for some that early in their careers Simms and Eli were busts
You re a poster who seems to feel the need to counter every positive post shared here with a negative
My reality is it s sports, as Yogi said it ain t over til it s over.
I m a fighter by nature, never stop grinding, never give up, qualities taught to me by my father, qualities that have served me well.
I apply these to all areas of life, including fandom. When reality during a season becomes fact, I accept it.
Guys like you think you re cute when you make statements like, Come out from those blue colored glasses, or you re part of the DJFC
I take no offense to those comments, because I understand those who give up easily cannot relate to those who do not
At least for the half, Thibs was replacing Ojulari. That's potentially a look for Simmons.
I would put him around the line of scrimmage and just tell him to attack the ball. Let him use his athletic skills to the max.
Ojulari is not playing so he can be on the field taking his place but I would let him freelance and just attack and be disruptive.
his success has always been tied to being a violent explosive athlete with length who covers a lot ground. id say we've seen that on a bunch of his 51 snaps but like the rest of the defense it hasnt translated into splash plays.
he does have 5 stops and 0 missed tackles on his 51 snaps which translate to the highest tackling grade on the team, which seems notable given how poor the tackling has been across the defense (also one of the higher graded players on the defense in general). jihad ward has 2 tackles and 0 stops in more than twice as many snaps. ximines has 1 tackle, 1 missed tackle, and 1 stop in 45 snaps. those were the 2 specific snap allotments I was hoping he'd upgrade bc they are probably the weakest positional depth on the roster, and he's outplayed them but thats not saying much since the edge play has been maybe the biggest weakness of the defense. combined the 3 of them have played just over 200 snaps with simmons getting 25% of them, i think that % needs to be higher for him even once ojulari comes back. i dont care if it becomes predictable, but id rather not see thibodeaux in coverage any more. if you are going to threaten and then drop an edge into a zone it may as well be simmons.
16 of his 51 snaps are pass rushes which is encouraging, 11 of them are considered from outside DL position (edge), though id still like to see him get those chances more over ximines and ward because those guys have continued to show absolutely nothing. last year he had 110 snaps from that alignment. it may be a long shot whether or not he can hold up as more of a pure rusher and id agree his more ideal deployment is a joker type of position but on this roster they may not have a choice especially if ojulari is out.
does anyone have a big problem with ojulari other than the fact that he cant stay on the field?
he's not a perfect player but he's not invisible like ximines or ward. or unfortunately thibodeaux so far this year. but last year in the rare events where he played he was the opposite of invisible.
does anyone have a big problem with ojulari other than the fact that he cant stay on the field?
he's not a perfect player but he's not invisible like ximines or ward. or unfortunately thibodeaux so far this year. but last year in the rare events where he played he was the opposite of invisible.
I'm referring to the myriad threads the poster Angel Eyes and a few others have littered, bemoaning how often Ojulari crashes and loses contain on running backs.
I'm not sure what the concept of invisibility has to do with anything.
I agree with this completely. His lower half can not support being at the second level. He’s just not physical enough. Not even close.
He also doesn’t have the luxury of learning one position. He has to learn CB,NB,LB,S and that isn’t easily done within a months time.
I know the Giants Love Pinnocks athletic ability, but I don’t think he’s played well and would like to see Dane or Simmons take over that role, with Simmons coming down to LB on obvious passing situations.
The question is, who will he take snaps away from when he is on the field?
Quote:
Not terribly instinctive, doesn't have great hips, is athletic, fast, and long so he has some makeup ability. But, to me he looks more like a safety and much less a LB due to not being terribly physical.
I agree with this completely. His lower half can not support being at the second level. He’s just not physical enough. Not even close.
He also doesn’t have the luxury of learning one position. He has to learn CB,NB,LB,S and that isn’t easily done within a months time.
I know the Giants Love Pinnocks athletic ability, but I don’t think he’s played well and would like to see Dane or Simmons take over that role, with Simmons coming down to LB on obvious passing situations.
Well, what Simmon's said is Wink asked him to learn play concepts to execute from different alignments rather than learn multiple positions. And Simmons liked that.
Instinctive is a nice label but it requires knowledge. Look at Okereke. He's always been called an instinctive player who finds the football and gets there fast. He shows that on half his plays here, but he's hesitant on the other half. Simmmons may not earn the instinctive label as a key trait, but it's early to write that off. And his athleticism can cover up a lot.
Early returns? After 12 quarters in a new system. Unbelievable.
BTW, Simmon's tackles per snap in his oh so brief time here is the same as Okereke's and McFaddens. If he were a 7th round pick we'd be ecstatic. His performance as a newbie has been as or more sold than any returning vet except the DTs.
It was a very low risk trade. 7th round picks, or trades, are not busts.
At the same time, don't expect a 7th round pick/trade to be a savior.
What should be expected is maybe the hope of a guy who can make a contribution. He's getting some snaps. He's still learning the system, having been acquired late. The hope is not lost. But the expectations haven't been raised, either.
Are you serious, Clark?
It was a very low risk trade. 7th round picks, or trades, are not busts.
At the same time, don't expect a 7th round pick/trade to be a savior.
What should be expected is maybe the hope of a guy who can make a contribution. He's getting some snaps. He's still learning the system, having been acquired late. The hope is not lost. But the expectations haven't been raised, either.
Quote:
to take either extreme position on him.
It was a very low risk trade. 7th round picks, or trades, are not busts.
At the same time, don't expect a 7th round pick/trade to be a savior.
What should be expected is maybe the hope of a guy who can make a contribution. He's getting some snaps. He's still learning the system, having been acquired late. The hope is not lost. But the expectations haven't been raised, either.
Good post
+1
Say the same for the entire defense. Expectation for better, hope for excellence.