Sean McVay could not wait to get rid of him. Howie Roseman and the Philadelphia Eagles were praised for trading up to select Carson Wentz after him. He has looked really good since being traded to Detroit. What changed?
to varying degrees of course. It also is starting to feel like our instant gratification culture is causing players to be forced into positions before they’re ready. Geno Smith and Andy Dalton look pretty good too
People need to start looking at the team around these QBs
this old theory that a QB doesn't need any talent around them is bogus. They are just as influenced by their OL and receivers as anyone else. I don't think Goff is exceptional in any way, I consider him middle of the pack.
Goff makes the throws DJ needs to step up and make
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
That said, Goff got traded because he wasn't making enough of them
Detroits OL is not built to deal with RPOs or designed runs by its QB. It’s not a line that can get out into space or handle a diversified running attack. It’s a very traditional offense maximizing run game and spread passing offense/concepts.
RE: Goff makes the throws DJ needs to step up and make
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
do the same. He only threw for 200 yds, 1 TD, and 1 Int. He missed a number of open passes. Detroit was in complete control because of their running attack, GB had no answer.
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
RE: Goff makes the throws DJ needs to step up and make
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
This is my only complaint on DJ, I think he plays too passively sometimes and takes the safe way. I believe he sees the bigger play but is conservative, maybe its been drilled into him by previous staffs? Regardless he looks a lot better when Daboll gets on him to open it up, like the 2d half of the Cardinals game. All of the sudden he is attacking those routes rather than using them to clear out for the short routes.
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
DJ will bird-dog receivers. But, on most passing plays there's one receiver who gets free and presents a window and DJ either misses it or chooses not to try the attempt. He doesn't trust it, and he must get past it and make the throws. He should improve, he's probably been coached to avoid the turnover first and foremost. But, it's still a big TBD for him. He makes more plays with his legs, but points in the NFL today come from the passing game.
If you watched the games with me, you'd hear me constantly yelling "he's open, deep third, throw it!!", for example. He's also got to stretch those deep passes so the receiver can run under it. He's not been good at that so far this season.
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
DJ will bird-dog receivers. But, on most passing plays there's one receiver who gets free and presents a window and DJ either misses it or chooses not to try the attempt. He doesn't trust it, and he must get past it and make the throws. He should improve, he's probably been coached to avoid the turnover first and foremost. But, it's still a big TBD for him. He makes more plays with his legs, but points in the NFL today come from the passing game.
To me he sure has the physical skills, I hope he does, I enjoy rooting for him
All of that said, Goff's a good QB with plenty of his own warts
If you watched the games with me, you'd hear me constantly yelling "he's open, deep third, throw it!!", for example. He's also got to stretch those deep passes so the receiver can run under it. He's not been good at that so far this season.
Sounds like we need a BBI Zoom watch party with JonC
I agree, that o line is really dominant. If I remember correctly, Goff's struggles often arose when pressured and it seems like he's in a perfect spot with solid weapons and a great o line.
Remember -you can drive in snow with good threads…. You can’t run an offense without a good line. When DJ has time he can light it up with the best of them…even with cast off receivers.
RE: RE: RE: give DJ his OL and he would light it up
I agree, that o line is really dominant. If I remember correctly, Goff's struggles often arose when pressured and it seems like he's in a perfect spot with solid weapons and a great o line.
Remember -you can’t drive in snow with good threads…. You can’t run an offense without a good line. When DJ has time he can light it up with the best of them…even with cast off receivers.
I saw some side by side clips a while back that somebody
much smarter than me posted that showed Goff hitting a semi-open receiver for a medium gain while not throwing to the guy breaking open deep and being praised because that was the right throw, and the right read in that situation, regardless of the guy deep who he wasn't even supposed to be looking at. Then they showed a few clips of Stafford, in similar situations, heaving it deep for a big play. The gist of it was that Stafford is more of a gunslinger than Goff, and I'm assuming mcvay opted for higher risk/higher reward type of play.
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
I honestly think it's because he doesn't trust the blocking. It looks like he expects pressure on every play (And it's kinda hard to blame him for feeling that way). Say what you want about him under Shurmur, but he never seemed to be afraid trigger on a throw. For some reason now he does. It's probably a combination of being under so much pressure from the rush, coupled with the fact that it's been beaten into him to take care of the Ball. I feel like he's been turned into David Carr.
RE: I saw some side by side clips a while back that somebody
much smarter than me posted that showed Goff hitting a semi-open receiver for a medium gain while not throwing to the guy breaking open deep and being praised because that was the right throw, and the right read in that situation, regardless of the guy deep who he wasn't even supposed to be looking at. Then they showed a few clips of Stafford, in similar situations, heaving it deep for a big play. The gist of it was that Stafford is more of a gunslinger than Goff, and I'm assuming mcvay opted for higher risk/higher reward type of play.
I think Stafford is better than Goff but not by a ton. Technically speaking the best Rams' offense under McVay was the 2018 team that went to the Super Bowl. It had the right amount of balance, and caught the league off guard.
Once the league did (Chicago with Fangio), and Gurley's knee wasn't the same, it was kinda over for them. I think they probably could've won the Super Bowl with him if Gurley was better, but it sure would've been tight.
The modern day NFL is such that Goff gets held to a standard that very few can attain. Many a Super Bowl champion in years past that couldn't have won a 54-51 shootout against the Chiefs....sad what the league has become.
As for Stafford, he also needs a strong team around him. He barely got to the Super Bowl and barely won it. Perhaps being critical here, but I don't foresee a repeat trip for him in a Rams uniform.
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
We just have so many experts on BBI.
RE: But we’re talking about end of his career Stafford
Fun fact: That's not even a good picture of Christen Harper. To Goff's additional credit, unlike most other rich, famous men whose tastes run to SI swimsuit models, he's actually younger than she is.
As for his on-field exploits, what Goff does well, he does very well. He is limited in adverse circumstances, but so are nearly all quarterbacks.
Goff plays behind one of the best OLines in the league
good things happen when you get protected. In LA, the OL ranged from mediocre to terrible. He is a good QB, but like many other good, but not elite QBs, he needs pieces around him to be successful. His upside is what we hope Jones's upside will be if we can ever surround him with competent players.
RE: Goff makes the throws DJ needs to step up and make
In comment 16224185 JonC said:
[quote] but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches. [/quot
Wrong, DJ can make any throw in the book and is more physically gifted then Goff. As someone said give DJ the OL and he's an elite QB.
goff has always been a good passer - he took the rams to the SB
detroit has a great OL and a good running game so they put him in an environment that fits him well. at the time he was traded i think he was 1 of the 5 highest paid QBs in the league, which is why he was a hard player to move, and in detroit he clearly hasn't played to that level. his contract drifted into a more fair range for his playing ability.
his record in detroit is 15-19-1, so like many grass is greener threads he hasn't performed dramatically differently than what we've seen with Jones over the last 3 years (he's 14-15-1 and 1-1 in playoffs), he's just outperformed expectations from afar. if he was the nyg qb behind the ol's they've had i doubt we'd have seen any positive difference in record.
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
Simms once said that he doesn't watch the receivers. He knows where the receivers are supposed to be. He watches the defenders and throws to the receiver who lost his defender.
RE: RE: RE: Goff makes the throws DJ needs to step up and make
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
So true, I love these guys that know everything about QB play. 1. He doesn't look off his receiver. 2. Afraid to go deep. 3.Throws to first read. 4.In accurate. 5. Always takes the easy throw. 6. Doesn't see the field well.7. Not an NFL arm. These are some of the complaints I remember, there are many more. What I see is a guy that's extremely accurate, Has a strong arm, fits the ball into small windows, plays within the game plan, sometimes seen as too many dinks and dunks, will give up his body to win, and we could use a lot more of them. MAKES ALL AROUND HIM BETTER !! To me it's obvious how good the guy is playing on a not so great team.
We just have so many experts on BBI.
RE: Goff plays behind one of the best OLines in the league
good things happen when you get protected. In LA, the OL ranged from mediocre to terrible. He is a good QB, but like many other good, but not elite QBs, he needs pieces around him to be successful. His upside is what we hope Jones's upside will be if we can ever surround him with competent players.
Let's put Goff on the Giants and see how well he does.
RE: goff has always been a good passer - he took the rams to the SB
detroit has a great OL and a good running game so they put him in an environment that fits him well. at the time he was traded i think he was 1 of the 5 highest paid QBs in the league, which is why he was a hard player to move, and in detroit he clearly hasn't played to that level. his contract drifted into a more fair range for his playing ability.
his record in detroit is 15-19-1, so like many grass is greener threads he hasn't performed dramatically differently than what we've seen with Jones over the last 3 years (he's 14-15-1 and 1-1 in playoffs), he's just outperformed expectations from afar. if he was the nyg qb behind the ol's they've had i doubt we'd have seen any positive difference in record.
Agreed. And I think Goff makes the Giants worse than DJ based on less athletic ability.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Goff makes the throws DJ needs to step up and make
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
So true, I love these guys that know everything about QB play. 1. He doesn't look off his receiver. 2. Afraid to go deep. 3.Throws to first read. 4.In accurate. 5. Always takes the easy throw. 6. Doesn't see the field well.7. Not an NFL arm. These are some of the complaints I remember, there are many more. What I see is a guy that's extremely accurate, Has a strong arm, fits the ball into small windows, plays within the game plan, sometimes seen as too many dinks and dunks, will give up his body to win, and we could use a lot more of them. MAKES ALL AROUND HIM BETTER !! To me it's obvious how good the guy is playing on a not so great team.
We just have so many experts on BBI.
If only those experts knew how to format their posts.
QB School on Youtube just did a Goff summary from Thursday night. I happened to watch the Ridder video vs. CAR this week because a NYG fan friend was actually at the game and I wanted to verify the level of 'disaster' he observed.
Talk about two contrasting situations. Goff is working in a scheme that's very good (his OC is going to be a head coach soon, right?) and he's executing well. He really does love to live inside the numbers.
Contrast this with the Ridder video from Sunday. Scheme is perplexing and lots of 'foul balls' by the Q.
Quote:
Top 5 OL in the league
Goff is better than DJ.
You think Giants would trade DJ, for Golf? … me either
Quote:
Top 5 OL in the league
Goff is better than DJ.
Strongly disagree
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
I understand that, but still, that s a big commitment
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
This is my only complaint on DJ, I think he plays too passively sometimes and takes the safe way. I believe he sees the bigger play but is conservative, maybe its been drilled into him by previous staffs? Regardless he looks a lot better when Daboll gets on him to open it up, like the 2d half of the Cardinals game. All of the sudden he is attacking those routes rather than using them to clear out for the short routes.
Quote:
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
DJ will bird-dog receivers. But, on most passing plays there's one receiver who gets free and presents a window and DJ either misses it or chooses not to try the attempt. He doesn't trust it, and he must get past it and make the throws. He should improve, he's probably been coached to avoid the turnover first and foremost. But, it's still a big TBD for him. He makes more plays with his legs, but points in the NFL today come from the passing game.
Quote:
In comment 16224194 JonC said:
Quote:
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
DJ will bird-dog receivers. But, on most passing plays there's one receiver who gets free and presents a window and DJ either misses it or chooses not to try the attempt. He doesn't trust it, and he must get past it and make the throws. He should improve, he's probably been coached to avoid the turnover first and foremost. But, it's still a big TBD for him. He makes more plays with his legs, but points in the NFL today come from the passing game.
To me he sure has the physical skills, I hope he does, I enjoy rooting for him
Montgomery ran for 121 yards. And GB's defense is not good.
Nothing special about him IMO.
Sounds like we need a BBI Zoom watch party with JonC
Montgomery ran for 121 yards. And GB's defense is not good.
Nothing special about him IMO.
Their defense might not be great, but they are good.
They were without both starting CB's and De'Vondre Campbell for the game.
Sure, they weren't good yesterday, that I agree.
Btw, GB is as much injured or worse than us, lots of key players out for them.
Montgomery ran for 121 yards. And GB's defense is not good.
Nothing special about him IMO.
He only attempted 8 second half passes, so that’s basically a half worth of stats.
He’s on pace for a 4300/26/13/70 year, something we haven’t seen since 2019. He went for 4400/29/7 last year. Goffs not elite but he’s been very good.
Quote:
Top 5 OL in the league
I agree, that o line is really dominant. If I remember correctly, Goff's struggles often arose when pressured and it seems like he's in a perfect spot with solid weapons and a great o line.
Remember -you can drive in snow with good threads…. You can’t run an offense without a good line. When DJ has time he can light it up with the best of them…even with cast off receivers.
Quote:
In comment 16224106 jmalls23 said:
Quote:
Top 5 OL in the league
I agree, that o line is really dominant. If I remember correctly, Goff's struggles often arose when pressured and it seems like he's in a perfect spot with solid weapons and a great o line.
Remember -you can’t drive in snow with good threads…. You can’t run an offense without a good line. When DJ has time he can light it up with the best of them…even with cast off receivers.
Quote:
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
I honestly think it's because he doesn't trust the blocking. It looks like he expects pressure on every play (And it's kinda hard to blame him for feeling that way). Say what you want about him under Shurmur, but he never seemed to be afraid trigger on a throw. For some reason now he does. It's probably a combination of being under so much pressure from the rush, coupled with the fact that it's been beaten into him to take care of the Ball. I feel like he's been turned into David Carr.
I think Stafford is better than Goff but not by a ton. Technically speaking the best Rams' offense under McVay was the 2018 team that went to the Super Bowl. It had the right amount of balance, and caught the league off guard.
Once the league did (Chicago with Fangio), and Gurley's knee wasn't the same, it was kinda over for them. I think they probably could've won the Super Bowl with him if Gurley was better, but it sure would've been tight.
The modern day NFL is such that Goff gets held to a standard that very few can attain. Many a Super Bowl champion in years past that couldn't have won a 54-51 shootout against the Chiefs....sad what the league has become.
As for Stafford, he also needs a strong team around him. He barely got to the Super Bowl and barely won it. Perhaps being critical here, but I don't foresee a repeat trip for him in a Rams uniform.
Hopefully the Giants join them soon but I am not expecting that to happen until they finally fix the fronts.
Quote:
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
We just have so many experts on BBI.
Hmm, maybe. He's close I think but certainly far from a lock to be an HOF'er
I can't argue that if he puts together two more strong seasons between '23 and '24.
As for his on-field exploits, what Goff does well, he does very well. He is limited in adverse circumstances, but so are nearly all quarterbacks.
[quote] but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches. [/quot
Wrong, DJ can make any throw in the book and is more physically gifted then Goff. As someone said give DJ the OL and he's an elite QB.
his record in detroit is 15-19-1, so like many grass is greener threads he hasn't performed dramatically differently than what we've seen with Jones over the last 3 years (he's 14-15-1 and 1-1 in playoffs), he's just outperformed expectations from afar. if he was the nyg qb behind the ol's they've had i doubt we'd have seen any positive difference in record.
Quote:
You'd have to ask them, but it's plain as day watching the games. It's been there since he arrived in the NFL. Obviously, they love the kid and want him to succeed. I hope he will, but it's not guaranteed. The contract they gave him is essentially a two-year commitment, so the runway isn't as long as some hoped.
Only watch on tv, so it s not as plain as day to me. But Phil Simms used to be labeled as someone who bird dogs receivers
I m thinking it s a skill that can be developed, and maybe the more stable situation of being in a more stable situation will be a big help
Simms once said that he doesn't watch the receivers. He knows where the receivers are supposed to be. He watches the defenders and throws to the receiver who lost his defender.
Quote:
In comment 16224185 JonC said:
Quote:
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
So true, I love these guys that know everything about QB play. 1. He doesn't look off his receiver. 2. Afraid to go deep. 3.Throws to first read. 4.In accurate. 5. Always takes the easy throw. 6. Doesn't see the field well.7. Not an NFL arm. These are some of the complaints I remember, there are many more. What I see is a guy that's extremely accurate, Has a strong arm, fits the ball into small windows, plays within the game plan, sometimes seen as too many dinks and dunks, will give up his body to win, and we could use a lot more of them. MAKES ALL AROUND HIM BETTER !! To me it's obvious how good the guy is playing on a not so great team.
We just have so many experts on BBI.
Let's put Goff on the Giants and see how well he does.
his record in detroit is 15-19-1, so like many grass is greener threads he hasn't performed dramatically differently than what we've seen with Jones over the last 3 years (he's 14-15-1 and 1-1 in playoffs), he's just outperformed expectations from afar. if he was the nyg qb behind the ol's they've had i doubt we'd have seen any positive difference in record.
Agreed. And I think Goff makes the Giants worse than DJ based on less athletic ability.
Quote:
In comment 16224188 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16224185 JonC said:
Quote:
but often either misses or doesn't attempt to throw to the correct open receiver. It's the next crucial step for DJ to make, otherwise competing with the top teams is going to continue to be mismatches.
It s hard to understand, that if D. J. has such a serious flaw in his game, that the Giants would commit to him.
So true, I love these guys that know everything about QB play. 1. He doesn't look off his receiver. 2. Afraid to go deep. 3.Throws to first read. 4.In accurate. 5. Always takes the easy throw. 6. Doesn't see the field well.7. Not an NFL arm. These are some of the complaints I remember, there are many more. What I see is a guy that's extremely accurate, Has a strong arm, fits the ball into small windows, plays within the game plan, sometimes seen as too many dinks and dunks, will give up his body to win, and we could use a lot more of them. MAKES ALL AROUND HIM BETTER !! To me it's obvious how good the guy is playing on a not so great team.
We just have so many experts on BBI.
If only those experts knew how to format their posts.
Talk about two contrasting situations. Goff is working in a scheme that's very good (his OC is going to be a head coach soon, right?) and he's executing well. He really does love to live inside the numbers.
Contrast this with the Ridder video from Sunday. Scheme is perplexing and lots of 'foul balls' by the Q.
Jared Goff Week 4 Analysis - ( New Window )