Duggan - Why does Giants QB get so much hate?

This should be fun

But his performance this season -- explainable as it may be given the injuries -- hasn't been impressive outside of his perfect half in Arizona.

Like the rest of the team, he can quiet the critics (for a week anyway) on Monday.

and you're 1-2, do people really expect nuance from the football public at large?

Got tons of disrespect and still does.

I'm just numb by opposing fans and truthfully how dumb and ignorant many of the players are.

above my pay grade, but ever since he's been here, he's had some of the worst offensive lines and WR's in the NFL.

...but come on, he is a playoff winning QB!

“I appreciate the way he’s come in and worked hard and dealt with the controversy and dealt with the ups and downs. I appreciate his attitude and his commitment to football. I’m rooting for him, and I’m a fan of him.”

In comment 16224259 Toth029 said:

Quote:

Got tons of disrespect and still does. I'm just numb by opposing fans and truthfully how dumb and ignorant many of the players are.

Let's not compare the two. Eli Manning is a 2x Super Bowl winning MVP.

In comment 16224257 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

and you're 1-2, do people really expect nuance from the football public at large?

Good point, and right after signing what many (not me) consider an outsize deal is a bad time to have a bad day or two.

Your point is correct. Eli was never fully respected it seems. Nor was Simms.

What horseshit. Everyone thought he was the answer after his rookie year. The sentiment has waxed and waned with his passing stats.

In comment 16224249 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

This should be fun

And yet, you call other people weird.

In comment 16224269 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

What horseshit. Everyone thought he was the answer after his rookie year. The sentiment has waxed and waned with his passing stats.

It’s true, it happened when he was drafted. Many fans and media were incredulous the Giants drafted him. Fans here on BBI, fans at the Giants draft party. That reaction has stuck for a significant number.

In comment 16224266 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16224259 Toth029 said: Quote: Got tons of disrespect and still does. I'm just numb by opposing fans and truthfully how dumb and ignorant many of the players are. Let's not compare the two. Eli Manning is a 2x Super Bowl winning MVP.

We can’t compare them? Until Eli won he was treated like Jones is and after the second title it only took a year or two for him to be treated like he was in 2006/7 all over again.

I just think it’s the nature of being in NY. Your failures are magnified and your success is barely celebrated. People enjoy failure.

or Simms for that matter was scrutinized. Eli and Simms were not afraid to fail and never became gun shy, I don't know if I can say Jones is not afraid to make a mistake. That is what made Phil and Eli great--Jones needs to take more chances.

In comment 16224273 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

I just think it’s the nature of being in NY. Your failures are magnified and your success is barely celebrated. People enjoy failure.

UConn -- i don't think people enjoy failure. I think it's more that they have no tolerance for failure when it comes to sports. They "fanatically" crave the exhilaration of the win and peak performance. It's painful to watch sports when players and teams underperform.

I think it's important to define some examples of the opposite.

Who are some QBs who fans have loved?

In comment 16224280 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 16224273 UConn4523 said: Quote: I just think it’s the nature of being in NY. Your failures are magnified and your success is barely celebrated. People enjoy failure. UConn -- i don't think people enjoy failure. I think it's more that they have no tolerance for failure when it comes to sports. They "fanatically" crave the exhilaration of the win and peak performance. It's painful to watch sports when players and teams underperform.

Yep, especially with all the money etc thrown at these guys. My perspective has also evolved and changed with age and experience. I'm a football fan and also recognize most of the guys tend to wash out of the real world outside of a game they're good at. Perform well or do something else.

In comment 16224262 barens said:

Quote:

above my pay grade, but ever since he's been here, he's had some of the worst offensive lines and WR's in the NFL.

No truer woods spoken. Being an nfl QB is hard enough without having coaching changes and system changes. A mainstay of Jones tenure to date. He has yet to have an AVE OL. He’s been ripped for every aspect of the position even though he has two seconds to run thru progressions and pick a guy with almost no separation. He’s not Mahomes!!!!!! Given ave time he’s shown considerable skill.

In comment 16224268 Sean said:

Quote:

Your point is correct. Eli was never fully respected it seems. Nor was Simms.

Simms, too.

Even with Eli, many people still try to say he did little to raise the team and raise his play to carry them over in big moments.

Jones has not been perfect but you don't see players saying how bad Kyler Murray's contract is or voting Justin "5 wins in his career" Fields in the top 90 for the entirety of the NFL. I feel even when/if he takes the next step up, he still won't get the recognition or praise he deserves. It didn't with Eli (w/ 2 Super Bowl MVPs) and it won't happen here.

because of all the harping on turnovers years 2 and 3. As a rookie, he made a number of "let it fly" passes. He has seemingly been afraid to pull the trigger since then. He has become a game manager where he can be successful if everything else is functioning, but he can't lift a team by himself when his protection is bad, or his surrounding cast is not playing well. That's a guy you move on from as soon as you can.
So the criticism he gets is justified.

The fans and the media knock any player who underperforms.

Other players taking about his money is uncommon and shitty.

In comment 16224257 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

and you're 1-2, do people really expect nuance from the football public at large?

It s been on going for 5 years. People felt he was over-drafted, they will never admit they were wrong and continue to spin his performance to fit their narrative. So many things are stated about Jones with no context

In comment 16224266 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16224259 Toth029 said: Quote: Got tons of disrespect and still does. I'm just numb by opposing fans and truthfully how dumb and ignorant many of the players are. Let's not compare the two. Eli Manning is a 2x Super Bowl winning MVP.

Let s. not compare that both got hate, even though one was a Super Bowl Champion??

are upset that Jones got a deal and Barkley didn't, which could be twisted and perceived as a racial issue

as for Giants fans...who I believe has become very entitled fan base refuses or is just plain ignorant to letting a team grow. Jones is an easy target to blame for that fan.

Because he’s not a flashy QB, throwing 60 yard bombs down the field. Look at Justin Herbert, the guy blew a 27 point lead in the playoffs, but because he’s flashy it was everyone else’s fault but his.

Giants organization was called racist by talking heads for drafting Jones. Some people will never get that narrative out of their head.

Most of the people commenting on Jones then didn't watch his college game tape.

Now? Evaluating OL play takes nuance. Evaluating separation takes nuance. Easier for those who lack basic intelligence just blame the QB for everything.

In comment 16224322 KDavies said:

Quote:

Giants organization was called racist by talking heads for drafting Jones. Some people will never get that narrative out of their head. Most of the people commenting on Jones then didn't watch his college game tape. Now? Evaluating OL play takes nuance. Evaluating separation takes nuance. Easier for those who lack basic intelligence just blame the QB for everything.

great point KD

Was probably the last true gun slinger the Giants had. And as we know, that type of play can be bad as well as good. There's a happy medium in there. We'd all like to see DJ not be so conservative, but that requires a better pocket and coaching which supports that.

In comment 16224319 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

Because he’s not a flashy QB, throwing 60 yard bombs down the field. Look at Justin Herbert, the guy blew a 27 point lead in the playoffs, but because he’s flashy it was everyone else’s fault but his.

Herbert's defense blew a 27 point lead, but that's neither here nor there. Rather, just let me know when DJ even has a 27 point lead in a playoff game. I guess that's a good way to make sure that DJ never gets criticized for blowing leads: never have a big lead to begin with.

In comment 16224322 KDavies said:

Quote:

Giants organization was called racist by talking heads for drafting Jones. Some people will never get that narrative out of their head. Most of the people commenting on Jones then didn't watch his college game tape. Now? Evaluating OL play takes nuance. Evaluating separation takes nuance. Easier for those who lack basic intelligence just blame the QB for everything.

Even easier for those with even less intelligence to assume that others are ignoring nuance because their POV doesn't jive with yours.

I think there's a pretty good dose of conflation between criticism and hate.

I also think most players and fans of other teams don't study the mitigating circumstances, and see a player with the fewest passing touchdowns and wins to earn a 150M+ contract and are skeptical.

In comment 16224298 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

because of all the harping on turnovers years 2 and 3. As a rookie, he made a number of "let it fly" passes. He has seemingly been afraid to pull the trigger since then. He has become a game manager where he can be successful if everything else is functioning, but he can't lift a team by himself when his protection is bad, or his surrounding cast is not playing well. That's a guy you move on from as soon as you can. So the criticism he gets is justified.

I just posted a similar thing on the Goff thread that he used to let it fly under Shurmur. I really feel between all the pressure he has been under being behind such bad OL play and the fact that it was beaten into him to protect the ball, he has been David Carr'ed. I just hope we can get some better and more consistent line play this year, and hopefully he can break out of that. We saw what he can do in the second half of that AZ game. He needs to not go into a shell because he's getting pressure by the likes of SF, Philly, and Dallas. Easier said than done obviously... lol

many have unrealistic expectations of the QB position and don't factor in the variables (coaching and talent) around the QB when making a judgement.

Most of the QB issues have stemmed from the Giants having a poor front office for over a decade. One of the worst in the league for a very long time.

The NY market is also very tough on both HC's and QB's imv. People like being a armchair QB.

In comment 16224318 Rory said:

Quote:

are upset that Jones got a deal and Barkley didn't, which could be twisted and perceived as a racial issue as for Giants fans...who I believe has become very entitled fan base refuses or is just plain ignorant to letting a team grow. Jones is an easy target to blame for that fan.

I didn’t want to go there, but there probably is an element of truth to that idea

In comment 16224327 DaveW2 said:

Quote:

Was probably the last true gun slinger the Giants had. And as we know, that type of play can be bad as well as good. There's a happy medium in there. We'd all like to see DJ not be so conservative, but that requires a better pocket and coaching which supports that.

Um. what? Eli wasn't a gunslinger??

In comment 16224332 Johnny5 said:

Quote:

I just posted a similar thing on the Goff thread that he used to let it fly under Shurmur.

I think people need to consider the possibility that Shurmur ran a very QB-friendly offense that made Jones look better than he actually is.

I mean, Case Keenum threw for 3500 yards and 22 TDs in 14 games with Shurmur as his OC.

In comment 16224343 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 16224332 Johnny5 said: Quote: I just posted a similar thing on the Goff thread that he used to let it fly under Shurmur. I think people need to consider the possibility that Shurmur ran a very QB-friendly offense that made Jones look better than he actually is. I mean, Case Keenum threw for 3500 yards and 22 TDs in 14 games with Shurmur as his OC.

I'm not saying better or worse though. I'm only speaking to confidence in pulling the trigger on throws.

In comment 16224329 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16224322 KDavies said: Quote: Giants organization was called racist by talking heads for drafting Jones. Some people will never get that narrative out of their head. Most of the people commenting on Jones then didn't watch his college game tape. Now? Evaluating OL play takes nuance. Evaluating separation takes nuance. Easier for those who lack basic intelligence just blame the QB for everything. Even easier for those with even less intelligence to assume that others are ignoring nuance because their POV doesn't jive with yours.

My POV is simply that Jones should be given some weapons and a decent OL and that he showed enough to get a second contract. Not very controversial. Sorry I'm not as smart as those calling for Tyrod Taylor, or drafting a new QB every year or two and seeing if you can magically find one who becomes Mahomes with an OL that is near the worst in the league.

The anti-Jonesers must really despise the Schoen/Daboll regime. One thing to miss on a 1st round QB. About a 50/50 chance there. Another thing to sign him to a second contract for $40 million a year. But, of course, I'm sure you're a lot smarter than them as well.

In comment 16224262 barens said:

Quote:

above my pay grade, but ever since he's been here, he's had some of the worst offensive lines and WR's in the NFL.

You are spot on, but the haters can not see past that! I guess they would be happier with Zack Wilson or Justin Fields.

and they can both be right. He's capable of looking great, but still hasn't taken the step to elite level QB (and maybe never will). And when the deck's stacked against him, he can look awful.

It's also fair to say the lack of talent around him and rotating carousel of mediocre coaching he's had during his career have worked against him.

I'm holding out hope this is the right staff and he and the talent around him will get better. But it's up to him to change the narrative

have had a lot of fun over the years diminishing the early success opposing QBs had by saying they were always mediocre, and their mediocrity finally caught up to them once "the league had tape." Happened with McNabb, RG3, Prescott, etc.

If Jones were an opposing QB, we'd definitely be saying the league now has tape.

In comment 16224328 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16224319 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: Because he’s not a flashy QB, throwing 60 yard bombs down the field. Look at Justin Herbert, the guy blew a 27 point lead in the playoffs, but because he’s flashy it was everyone else’s fault but his. Herbert's defense blew a 27 point lead, but that's neither here nor there. Rather, just let me know when DJ even has a 27 point lead in a playoff game. I guess that's a good way to make sure that DJ never gets criticized for blowing leads: never have a big lead to begin with.

Thanks for proving my point. I guess leading 3 drives that went under 3 minutes each, in the 2nd half, had nothing to do with that Loss. OK

And ignore the Eagle game?

In comment 16224329 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16224322 KDavies said: Quote: Giants organization was called racist by talking heads for drafting Jones. Some people will never get that narrative out of their head. Most of the people commenting on Jones then didn't watch his college game tape. Now? Evaluating OL play takes nuance. Evaluating separation takes nuance. Easier for those who lack basic intelligence just blame the QB for everything. Even easier for those with even less intelligence to assume that others are ignoring nuance because their POV doesn't jive with yours.

man. you are so easily triggered around here...

...its like shooting fish in a barrel.

I am sorry, but I need to chime in here. Shooting fish in a barrel needs context; what if there are only a couple of small fish in a large barrel and the projectile being shot is a single, small projectile with no additional aids to help the aim?

In comment 16224372 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

And ignore the Eagle game?

What’s the deal with the Viking playoff game, you know the playoff game that Jones actually won. Do we ignore that one or can we reference it?

It feels like it was just two months ago the Giants were lucky Kafka didn't leave for a head coaching gig and the Giants skill position players were approaching dangerous levels.

It's funny how yet again Jones is owed a better a system and some actual skill players.

There's no chance it's the common variable, right?

When America sees DJ and the Giants, they are seeing a team lose, often decisively. Of course the Giants' woes in prime time go back to way before Daniel Jones was at Duke. I recently checked and the Giants have one of the worst, if not the worst records on Monday Night Football, and I think similar standing on Sunday nights.

Let's also ask why he gets so much love from some in the fanbase?

There are times when Jones looks very good, the latest being the second half against the Cardinals. I recall a game against New Orleans. After those games, you can say "ok, we got the guy." Hey, I've said it.

But then there are other games where he looks awful, the latest being 10 of the last 12 quarters. The playoff disaster in Philly that no one wants to talk about. His adoring fans point to the o-line, the receivers, the scheme, the this, the that . . . Unfortunately, he has been the one constant to this offense and bears some responsibility for these performances.

Then there are the majority of games where he is pretty mediocre, where you could have practically anyone else behind center and get the same production.

He's a wildcard; you never know which Jones is going to show up. It would not surprise to see him play great on Sunday. It won't surprise if he looks terrible on Sunday.

He is who he is as Sy said. Paint the canvas as you will.