New York Giants quarterback Daniel Jones has seemingly been wearing a “kick me” sign since the moment he entered the NFL.
Jones was booed by fans at the Giants’ 2019 draft party when he was announced as the sixth pick. He was called “trash” by Chicago Bears safety Jaquan Brisker the day he signed a four-year, $160 million extension with the Giants. And in the latest installment of Jones bashing, San Francisco 49ers defenders expressed disbelief about the quarterback’s salary, with one anonymous player calling it a “travesty.”
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the 2nd sb kind of shut people up, and then he put up some bigger statistical seasons, but when the team went backwards they were right back to being a punchline.
It's funny how yet again Jones is owed a better a system and some actual skill players.
There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
Admittedly, most people were feeling good going into year 2 of Daboll/Kafka. Weren’t you as well? However, after seeing the production thus far opinions can change, can’t they? Most fans want to see Hyatt over the corpse of Campbell, but that’s not our decision to make. Barkley, Thomas and Waller have been banged up, out of our control. Obviously, Jones needs to play better. But it’s a collective need to play better as well, team-wide.
Ultimately, whomever was running the offense in the second half in Arizona needs to do that for the rest of the year. Because the other 10 quarters have not worked. I don’t care if it was Kafka, Daboll, Tierney, AI, whatever. They need to get back there.
I've posted this same sentiment countless times. If you read BBI for a week, you can collect a number of observations that every QB in the league except Mahomes sucks.
Reference it all you want, but at least acknowledge that the Vikings' pass defense was horrendous last year.
That being said, I am not sure he gets as much hate in the NY media as some would lead you to believe. Toward the end of last season, and especially post round 1, I heard a few hosts on WFAN singing his praises and suggesting he was on the cusp of being a top 5-8 qb in this league.
He is who he is as Sy said. Paint the canvas as you will.
Homer, has he though? We have been shit since 2012 except for one outlier season in 2016... And that season we didn't score above what 20 pts per game? That offense was pretty terrible. Our whole offense was OBJ. I would say the biggest constant we have had since 2012 is that our offensive line play has been among the bottom 5 in the league every single year. It's absolutely maddening to me. I do agree with Sy's statement for sure, he is what he is... and my canvas for him would include a better OL if we want him to earn his contract consistently, game to game.
One side of me hears what you’re saying. The other side of me sees terrible Jones performances in the context of a nano-second pocket that just goes poof at the snap.
It's funny how yet again Jones is owed a better a system and some actual skill players.
There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
How dare Giants fans want Jones having some continuity in coaching.
Marino never won a championship and is considered one of the greatest QBs to ever play. The common variable between this year and last is a terrible OL. Results are skewed since they played perhaps the 2 best DLs in 2 out of the first three games.
And yes, Jones is owed a competent OL, good coaching, and talent at skill positions. Is it that controversial to put players in positions to try to succeed? Oy do you just throw shit out there for Jones, say you are paid $40 million, make chicken salad out of chicken shit? As someone alluded to, that’s the David Carr theory of team building. Didn’t work then. Won’t work now.
It seems some of you just want the old Cleveland Browns theory of team building. Keep drafting QB after QB, put them in shot positions, and scratch your head wondering why it doesn’t work. You can keep drafting the Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, and Baker Mayfields. Or you can take your QB who led the team to the playoffs (and a playoff victory)with a poor OL and the best healthy receiver a waiver wire pickup, and build a team around him and put him in a position to succeed. The latter seems the more prudent move, but apparently it’s controversial to expect a GM to help build a team around a QB
It's funny how yet again Jones is owed a better a system and some actual skill players.
There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
Admittedly, most people were feeling good going into year 2 of Daboll/Kafka. Weren’t you as well? However, after seeing the production thus far opinions can change, can’t they? Most fans want to see Hyatt over the corpse of Campbell, but that’s not our decision to make. Barkley, Thomas and Waller have been banged up, out of our control. Obviously, Jones needs to play better. But it’s a collective need to play better as well, team-wide.
I say this without a hint of sarcasm: there's a chance Jones is a good quarterback and has faced galactically bad luck in his career.
I also think there an chance he is a very average quarterback and has faced just normal bad luck.
But what I find amusing is it's not even cold out yet and the posts are piling up about how raw of a deal Jones has.
How dare Giants fans want Jones having some continuity in coaching.
Marino never won a championship and is considered one of the greatest QBs to ever play. The common variable between this year and last is a terrible OL. Results are skewed since they played perhaps the 2 best DLs in 2 out of the first three games.
And yes, Jones is owed a competent OL, good coaching, and talent at skill positions. Is it that controversial to put players in positions to try to succeed? Oy do you just throw shit out there for Jones, say you are paid $40 million, make chicken salad out of chicken shit? As someone alluded to, that’s the David Carr theory of team building. Didn’t work then. Won’t work now.
It seems some of you just want the old Cleveland Browns theory of team building. Keep drafting QB after QB, put them in shot positions, and scratch your head wondering why it doesn’t work. You can keep drafting the Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, and Baker Mayfields. Or you can take your QB who led the team to the playoffs (and a playoff victory)with a poor OL and the best healthy receiver a waiver wire pickup, and build a team around him and put him in a position to succeed. The latter seems the more prudent move, but apparently it’s controversial to expect a GM to help build a team around a QB
Do you think the Giants have a good offensive system/coaching and good skill players this year?
That being said, I am not sure he gets as much hate in the NY media as some would lead you to believe. Toward the end of last season, and especially post round 1, I heard a few hosts on WFAN singing his praises and suggesting he was on the cusp of being a top 5-8 qb in this league.
Yep. And let’s not forget the over the top admiration he was getting in the pre season after ONE drive that ended up a TD. In a pre season game. People started talking like they would suddenly be able to compete with Dallas and Philly.
The NFL is a week by week league. Jones played like trash last week. If he lights up Seattle this week all the predictions of greatness will return in the media. It’s just how it works and I’m surprised fans that are absolutely bi polar all season long are really surprised by this
Also, it might be a surprise in NY, but throughout the country there are many, many people that just hate anything NY.
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It feels like it was just two months ago the Giants were lucky Kafka didn't leave for a head coaching gig and the Giants skill position players were approaching dangerous levels.
It's funny how yet again Jones is owed a better a system and some actual skill players.
There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
Admittedly, most people were feeling good going into year 2 of Daboll/Kafka. Weren’t you as well? However, after seeing the production thus far opinions can change, can’t they? Most fans want to see Hyatt over the corpse of Campbell, but that’s not our decision to make. Barkley, Thomas and Waller have been banged up, out of our control. Obviously, Jones needs to play better. But it’s a collective need to play better as well, team-wide.
I say this without a hint of sarcasm: there's a chance Jones is a good quarterback and has faced galactically bad luck in his career.
I also think there an chance he is a very average quarterback and has faced just normal bad luck.
But what I find amusing is it's not even cold out yet and the posts are piling up about how raw of a deal Jones has.
I agree with your first two points. I want to root for him but find it difficult at times based on his performances.
What I find amusing - and annoying - is that the detractors and supporters beat the same drum every week.
And FYI, while not officially cold, it did get pretty chilly at night here in NJ a few times over the past week.
Coaching has been lacking and I think they made some mistakes this offseason addressing the team.
At some point management needs to fix the OL no? It’s been a problem for over a decade. Until they fix the OL, the Giants will continue getting crushed by DLs like the Eagles, Cowboys, and Niners. Getting a new QB will not change that.
Jones led the Giants to the playoffs and a playoff victory last year with one of the worst receiving corps I’ve seen and a bad OL. That was no small feat
There is an inherent bias in the assumption that Jones is the victim and the OL is the perpetrator, but like all things in football, that isn't necessarily the case, IMO.
We have watched the Giants' OL appear to struggle mightily through the course of five different head coaches, six different playcallers, and two different QBs. How many different OL coaches? Five? Six? Three different GMs. Various scouting changes. Implementation of different scouting methods. Same results.
It's beyond my pay grade to answer this question, but I get paid just the right amount to ask it: does anyone ever consider the possibility that part of the reason why the OL looks especially bad in pass protection is a lack of fear by opposing defenses that the offense will really make them pay? Marino was mentioned above (and that's fucking laughable that anyone is trying to draw a Marino comparison to DJ), and to my recollection, Marino was outstanding at attacking the defense right where they left a spot unguarded. Does anyone feel like DJ does that with any regularity?
End-of-career Eli was just a statue in the pocket (not that he was ever considered especially mobile to begin with), so it was a reasonable conclusion that he lacked the escapability to cover up the flaws of the OL. Since then, we've seen the Giants spend big money in free agency on the OL, use high value draft picks on the OL, use mid round picks on the OL, use late round picks on the OL, trade for OL help, sign OL depth off the street, etc. There has not been a lack of resources thrown at this position group.
It strikes me as incredibly unlucky that almost every one of those OL players has individually underperformed (except Thomas, and, so far, Schmitz) or declined. Is there any possibility that the QB contributes to the OL's problems?
I want to be clear that I'm not asking this question as a suggestion that DJ definitively is the issue. I'm just asking if anyone has ever even considered it. Simply by process of elimination and replacement, there seems to be either a systemic issue that somehow outlasts repeated (and widespread) staffing/personnel changes, or that there is some other factor that isn't changing. And there's only a few factors that haven't changed, so I'm only looking for those.
It just feels like for all the different changes/additions the Giants have made over the years to address the OL, some of these would have worked out simply by accident. But that elusive OL improvement continues to remain just outside the grasp of the Giants' organization.
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There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
How dare Giants fans want Jones having some continuity in coaching.
Marino never won a championship and is considered one of the greatest QBs to ever play. The common variable between this year and last is a terrible OL. Results are skewed since they played perhaps the 2 best DLs in 2 out of the first three games.
And yes, Jones is owed a competent OL, good coaching, and talent at skill positions. Is it that controversial to put players in positions to try to succeed? Oy do you just throw shit out there for Jones, say you are paid $40 million, make chicken salad out of chicken shit? As someone alluded to, that’s the David Carr theory of team building. Didn’t work then. Won’t work now.
It seems some of you just want the old Cleveland Browns theory of team building. Keep drafting QB after QB, put them in shot positions, and scratch your head wondering why it doesn’t work. You can keep drafting the Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, and Baker Mayfields. Or you can take your QB who led the team to the playoffs (and a playoff victory)with a poor OL and the best healthy receiver a waiver wire pickup, and build a team around him and put him in a position to succeed. The latter seems the more prudent move, but apparently it’s controversial to expect a GM to help build a team around a QB
Do you think the Giants have a good offensive system/coaching and good skill players this year?
The offensive game plan the first game was terrible after the opening drive. The skill players are improved, but the WRs are probably still a bottom 5 group in the league.
The major issue this year is the Giants OL (still) and the teams they've played. I said after week 1, it was clear the Giants will not be able to compete will the Eagles, Cowboys, and Niners until they get the OL fixed. They had real tough matchups with 2 games against those teams in the first 3 games. If the OL was decent with these skill guys, Jones would be fine.
Most of the people commenting on Jones then didn't watch his college game tape.
Now? Evaluating OL play takes nuance. Evaluating separation takes nuance. Easier for those who lack basic intelligence just blame the QB for everything.
He evaluates everything.
Does he lack nuisance?
Jones continues to float between JAG and very solid.
It's just very hard to win in the NFL with that profile at QB...
There is an inherent bias in the assumption that Jones is the victim and the OL is the perpetrator, but like all things in football, that isn't necessarily the case, IMO.
We have watched the Giants' OL appear to struggle mightily through the course of five different head coaches, six different playcallers, and two different QBs. How many different OL coaches? Five? Six? Three different GMs. Various scouting changes. Implementation of different scouting methods. Same results.
It's beyond my pay grade to answer this question, but I get paid just the right amount to ask it: does anyone ever consider the possibility that part of the reason why the OL looks especially bad in pass protection is a lack of fear by opposing defenses that the offense will really make them pay? Marino was mentioned above (and that's fucking laughable that anyone is trying to draw a Marino comparison to DJ), and to my recollection, Marino was outstanding at attacking the defense right where they left a spot unguarded. Does anyone feel like DJ does that with any regularity?
End-of-career Eli was just a statue in the pocket (not that he was ever considered especially mobile to begin with), so it was a reasonable conclusion that he lacked the escapability to cover up the flaws of the OL. Since then, we've seen the Giants spend big money in free agency on the OL, use high value draft picks on the OL, use mid round picks on the OL, use late round picks on the OL, trade for OL help, sign OL depth off the street, etc. There has not been a lack of resources thrown at this position group.
It strikes me as incredibly unlucky that almost every one of those OL players has individually underperformed (except Thomas, and, so far, Schmitz) or declined. Is there any possibility that the QB contributes to the OL's problems?
I want to be clear that I'm not asking this question as a suggestion that DJ definitively is the issue. I'm just asking if anyone has ever even considered it. Simply by process of elimination and replacement, there seems to be either a systemic issue that somehow outlasts repeated (and widespread) staffing/personnel changes, or that there is some other factor that isn't changing. And there's only a few factors that haven't changed, so I'm only looking for those.
It just feels like for all the different changes/additions the Giants have made over the years to address the OL, some of these would have worked out simply by accident. But that elusive OL improvement continues to remain just outside the grasp of the Giants' organization.
I just have to shrug my shoulders at this kind of garbage. I don't know how anyone can watch tape of say Evan Neal this year and be like, "Yeah, that's Jones' fault." Just utterly shocking to me that people can come away with that kind of take
Fans make it seem like the Giants traded tons of resources for a bad player. Nope. Try again. They didn't even trade up and he's a solid starting QB in the NFL on his worst day.
It's bullshit inconsistent hot takes from jerkoffs with an axe to grind.
To be a franchise QB in the league, you have to process quickly. Jones has not show he can do it yet. Is it something that can be learned with experience, I’m not sure. But I do know that if the team around Jones is built properly you can win with him.
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but the OL isn't owed a better something? Honestly, why is Jones owed anything but never seems to owe anyone anything himself?
There is an inherent bias in the assumption that Jones is the victim and the OL is the perpetrator, but like all things in football, that isn't necessarily the case, IMO.
We have watched the Giants' OL appear to struggle mightily through the course of five different head coaches, six different playcallers, and two different QBs. How many different OL coaches? Five? Six? Three different GMs. Various scouting changes. Implementation of different scouting methods. Same results.
It's beyond my pay grade to answer this question, but I get paid just the right amount to ask it: does anyone ever consider the possibility that part of the reason why the OL looks especially bad in pass protection is a lack of fear by opposing defenses that the offense will really make them pay? Marino was mentioned above (and that's fucking laughable that anyone is trying to draw a Marino comparison to DJ), and to my recollection, Marino was outstanding at attacking the defense right where they left a spot unguarded. Does anyone feel like DJ does that with any regularity?
End-of-career Eli was just a statue in the pocket (not that he was ever considered especially mobile to begin with), so it was a reasonable conclusion that he lacked the escapability to cover up the flaws of the OL. Since then, we've seen the Giants spend big money in free agency on the OL, use high value draft picks on the OL, use mid round picks on the OL, use late round picks on the OL, trade for OL help, sign OL depth off the street, etc. There has not been a lack of resources thrown at this position group.
It strikes me as incredibly unlucky that almost every one of those OL players has individually underperformed (except Thomas, and, so far, Schmitz) or declined. Is there any possibility that the QB contributes to the OL's problems?
I want to be clear that I'm not asking this question as a suggestion that DJ definitively is the issue. I'm just asking if anyone has ever even considered it. Simply by process of elimination and replacement, there seems to be either a systemic issue that somehow outlasts repeated (and widespread) staffing/personnel changes, or that there is some other factor that isn't changing. And there's only a few factors that haven't changed, so I'm only looking for those.
It just feels like for all the different changes/additions the Giants have made over the years to address the OL, some of these would have worked out simply by accident. But that elusive OL improvement continues to remain just outside the grasp of the Giants' organization.
I just have to shrug my shoulders at this kind of garbage. I don't know how anyone can watch tape of say Evan Neal this year and be like, "Yeah, that's Jones' fault." Just utterly shocking to me that people can come away with that kind of take
He is garbage?
A QB who can make the playoffs and win in the playoffs...like he did last year, until he faced a team his line couldn't block
So again, define "fine." I get the sense that what you call "fine" is probably too low of a standard. But I'm sure you know better than Sy.
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Got tons of disrespect and still does.
I'm just numb by opposing fans and truthfully how dumb and ignorant many of the players are.
Let's not compare the two. Eli Manning is a 2x Super Bowl winning MVP.
No one is comparing anyone. We're comparing how dumb the Eli takes were.
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In comment 16224466 Gatorade Dunk said:
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but the OL isn't owed a better something? Honestly, why is Jones owed anything but never seems to owe anyone anything himself?
There is an inherent bias in the assumption that Jones is the victim and the OL is the perpetrator, but like all things in football, that isn't necessarily the case, IMO.
We have watched the Giants' OL appear to struggle mightily through the course of five different head coaches, six different playcallers, and two different QBs. How many different OL coaches? Five? Six? Three different GMs. Various scouting changes. Implementation of different scouting methods. Same results.
It's beyond my pay grade to answer this question, but I get paid just the right amount to ask it: does anyone ever consider the possibility that part of the reason why the OL looks especially bad in pass protection is a lack of fear by opposing defenses that the offense will really make them pay? Marino was mentioned above (and that's fucking laughable that anyone is trying to draw a Marino comparison to DJ), and to my recollection, Marino was outstanding at attacking the defense right where they left a spot unguarded. Does anyone feel like DJ does that with any regularity?
End-of-career Eli was just a statue in the pocket (not that he was ever considered especially mobile to begin with), so it was a reasonable conclusion that he lacked the escapability to cover up the flaws of the OL. Since then, we've seen the Giants spend big money in free agency on the OL, use high value draft picks on the OL, use mid round picks on the OL, use late round picks on the OL, trade for OL help, sign OL depth off the street, etc. There has not been a lack of resources thrown at this position group.
It strikes me as incredibly unlucky that almost every one of those OL players has individually underperformed (except Thomas, and, so far, Schmitz) or declined. Is there any possibility that the QB contributes to the OL's problems?
I want to be clear that I'm not asking this question as a suggestion that DJ definitively is the issue. I'm just asking if anyone has ever even considered it. Simply by process of elimination and replacement, there seems to be either a systemic issue that somehow outlasts repeated (and widespread) staffing/personnel changes, or that there is some other factor that isn't changing. And there's only a few factors that haven't changed, so I'm only looking for those.
It just feels like for all the different changes/additions the Giants have made over the years to address the OL, some of these would have worked out simply by accident. But that elusive OL improvement continues to remain just outside the grasp of the Giants' organization.
I just have to shrug my shoulders at this kind of garbage. I don't know how anyone can watch tape of say Evan Neal this year and be like, "Yeah, that's Jones' fault." Just utterly shocking to me that people can come away with that kind of take
Again Sy has blamed Jones for Tons of things this year.
He is garbage?
Where has Sy blamed Jones for the OL? He hasn't. Like most QBs when the line isn't blocking, Jones hasn't looked good vs. the Cowboys and Niners. Most QBs don't.
And yes, if Sy is blaming Jones for over a decade of pretty bad OL play, then yes, that is a garbage take. But I know he didn't
On one hand the Giants pass catchers are bottom five and the game plans suck, but if the line was better everything would be fine?
Does that really add up?
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"fine."
A QB who can make the playoffs and win in the playoffs...like he did last year, until he faced a team his line couldn't block
He beat the only other NFC playoff team that was even more overrated in terms of W/L record vs. point differential.
Jim Harbaugh would be a "fine" QB by your definition. Is that really what you'd consider good enough?
So again, define "fine." I get the sense that what you call "fine" is probably too low of a standard. But I'm sure you know better than Sy.
I mean, what standards do we have for Barkley? Because he's covered, the ball should bounce off of him and into the opponents hands? He should have caught the ball.
Perfection is expected of Jones, incompetence is tolerated of others. It's Jones' fault the OL can't block. It's Jones' fault the receivers drop balls they should have caught
It’s highly possible that if Jones improves in those areas the offensive line would in turn look a better. How much better who knows. Jones isn’t the reason the oline is toward the bottom of the league, but he also doesn’t help them either.
Occam’s razor suggests that there’s been too many players cycled into the oline for the last decade for it just to be them being bad. The Giants would have to be the unluckiest or worst run team in the league.
I want to be clear that I'm not asking this question as a suggestion that DJ definitively is the issue. I'm just asking if anyone has ever even considered it. Simply by process of elimination and replacement, there seems to be either a systemic issue that somehow outlasts repeated (and widespread) staffing/personnel changes, or that there is some other factor that isn't changing. And there's only a few factors that haven't changed, so I'm only looking for those.
I think many times we leave out the other side of the argument whether intentional or not. There is much miscommunication with a lot of discussions on this forum because I think the way we frame our arguments or posts are not read carefully enough. Jonescritics sometimes will get labeled as thinking or saying “Jones is the only problem” (I don't recall any posters actually saying this). The same thing happens with those that express their reasons why Jones has not lived up to expectations. They often get labeled as “excuse makers” with their thoughts being represented as “nothing is Jones’ fault”.
I honestly think one solution is to ask more questions about a poster’s opinions rather than assuming.
I do too much assuming and I also don’t construct my opinions very clearly sometimes.
On one hand the Giants pass catchers are bottom five and the game plans suck, but if the line was better everything would be fine?
Does that really add up?
What’s your take on the state of the offense? What is your solution to improve it?
On one hand the Giants pass catchers are bottom five and the game plans suck, but if the line was better everything would be fine?
Does that really add up?
It doesn't add up, because you are completely twisting what I said.
Jones helped take the Giants to the playoffs last year and they won a playoff game. Last year they had a top 5 worst OL and an even worse receiving group. Outside of Thomas, the Giants may have had the worst OL in the league. This year, the receiving group is improved.
Daboll and staff did an excellent job coaching last year. The Cowboys game, the first drive was excellent until the false start and FG block. The Giants seemed to abandon what was working when they got down. I did not say the Giants "gameplans" sucked. I said I felt the Cowboys game was poorly coached. Would it have made a difference between winning and losing? No. But it would have been more like the 49ers game. Clearly out-manned, but not a complete debacle.
And, yes, if the OL was better, the offense and Jones would look a lot better. As one can clearly see in games where the OL isn't completely out-manned.
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There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
How dare Giants fans want Jones having some continuity in coaching.
Marino never won a championship and is considered one of the greatest QBs to ever play. The common variable between this year and last is a terrible OL. Results are skewed since they played perhaps the 2 best DLs in 2 out of the first three games.
And yes, Jones is owed a competent OL, good coaching, and talent at skill positions. Is it that controversial to put players in positions to try to succeed? Oy do you just throw shit out there for Jones, say you are paid $40 million, make chicken salad out of chicken shit? As someone alluded to, that’s the David Carr theory of team building. Didn’t work then. Won’t work now.
It seems some of you just want the old Cleveland Browns theory of team building. Keep drafting QB after QB, put them in shot positions, and scratch your head wondering why it doesn’t work. You can keep drafting the Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, and Baker Mayfields. Or you can take your QB who led the team to the playoffs (and a playoff victory)with a poor OL and the best healthy receiver a waiver wire pickup, and build a team around him and put him in a position to succeed. The latter seems the more prudent move, but apparently it’s controversial to expect a GM to help build a team around a QB
Do you think the Giants have a good offensive system/coaching and good skill players this year?
I think the coaching has been rough this year, and I blame lack of playing time in preseason for the starters as a big part of that. I believe we have decent skill players, although I thought Campbell would be better. He looks like a non-factor. My biggest problem, even last year with what we trotted out at the skill postions (minus Barkley) was that our OL play has to be better for any QB to have consistent success, and more importantly compete within our division. I want this regardless of who we have behind center.
There is an inherent bias in the assumption that Jones is the victim and the OL is the perpetrator, but like all things in football, that isn't necessarily the case, IMO.
We have watched the Giants' OL appear to struggle mightily through the course of five different head coaches, six different playcallers, and two different QBs. How many different OL coaches? Five? Six? Three different GMs. Various scouting changes. Implementation of different scouting methods. Same results.
It's beyond my pay grade to answer this question, but I get paid just the right amount to ask it: does anyone ever consider the possibility that part of the reason why the OL looks especially bad in pass protection is a lack of fear by opposing defenses that the offense will really make them pay? Marino was mentioned above (and that's fucking laughable that anyone is trying to draw a Marino comparison to DJ), and to my recollection, Marino was outstanding at attacking the defense right where they left a spot unguarded. Does anyone feel like DJ does that with any regularity?
End-of-career Eli was just a statue in the pocket (not that he was ever considered especially mobile to begin with), so it was a reasonable conclusion that he lacked the escapability to cover up the flaws of the OL. Since then, we've seen the Giants spend big money in free agency on the OL, use high value draft picks on the OL, use mid round picks on the OL, use late round picks on the OL, trade for OL help, sign OL depth off the street, etc. There has not been a lack of resources thrown at this position group.
It strikes me as incredibly unlucky that almost every one of those OL players has individually underperformed (except Thomas, and, so far, Schmitz) or declined. Is there any possibility that the QB contributes to the OL's problems?
I want to be clear that I'm not asking this question as a suggestion that DJ definitively is the issue. I'm just asking if anyone has ever even considered it. Simply by process of elimination and replacement, there seems to be either a systemic issue that somehow outlasts repeated (and widespread) staffing/personnel changes, or that there is some other factor that isn't changing. And there's only a few factors that haven't changed, so I'm only looking for those.
It just feels like for all the different changes/additions the Giants have made over the years to address the OL, some of these would have worked out simply by accident. But that elusive OL improvement continues to remain just outside the grasp of the Giants' organization.
Well said GD and spot on. Great post.
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It feels like it was just two months ago the Giants were lucky Kafka didn't leave for a head coaching gig and the Giants skill position players were approaching dangerous levels.
It's funny how yet again Jones is owed a better a system and some actual skill players.
There's no chance it's the common variable, right?
Admittedly, most people were feeling good going into year 2 of Daboll/Kafka. Weren’t you as well? However, after seeing the production thus far opinions can change, can’t they? Most fans want to see Hyatt over the corpse of Campbell, but that’s not our decision to make. Barkley, Thomas and Waller have been banged up, out of our control. Obviously, Jones needs to play better. But it’s a collective need to play better as well, team-wide.
I say this without a hint of sarcasm: there's a chance Jones is a good quarterback and has faced galactically bad luck in his career.
I also think there an chance he is a very average quarterback and has faced just normal bad luck.
But what I find amusing is it's not even cold out yet and the posts are piling up about how raw of a deal Jones has.
I agree that he might still only be an average QB.
He might end up a top 10 QB.
I am really going to wait for the entire season to play out.
This next game against Seattle, We need to see that hero ball from him. The guy in the second half of Arizona and the guy that played in Minnesota.
That's the problem.
We seen seen terrible Jones and awesome Jones.
Who is he.
I am going need the whole year to tell you.
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I just think it’s the nature of being in NY. Your failures are magnified and your success is barely celebrated. People enjoy failure.
UConn -- i don't think people enjoy failure. I think it's more that they have no tolerance for failure when it comes to sports. They "fanatically" crave the exhilaration of the win and peak performance. It's painful to watch sports when players and teams underperform.
I disagree wholeheartedly. This town (media especially) LOVES misery. Doom and gloom is a business and it always will be.
On one hand the Giants pass catchers are bottom five and the game plans suck, but if the line was better everything would be fine?
Does that really add up?
What’s your take on the state of the offense? What is your solution to improve it?
In the immediate term I'd move Neal to guard and play Ezeudu at right tackle. I'd work to establish the read/option and RPO as much as possible with the current running back group and hope Barkley returns for Miami. If the run game develops some momentum, sprinkle in more combo and stack routes to spring pass catchers open like last year.
I'd view 2023 like 2022 -- a year where it's not implausible to scrape together 9 wins and get in the tournament.
Next year I'd prioritize interior offensive linemen with a premium pick and/or UFA. I'd also draft a QB on day two and start really contemplating whether Jones should be a Giant in 2025.
It’s highly possible that if Jones improves in those areas the offensive line would in turn look a better. How much better who knows. Jones isn’t the reason the oline is toward the bottom of the league, but he also doesn’t help them either.
Occam’s razor suggests that there’s been too many players cycled into the oline for the last decade for it just to be them being bad. The Giants would have to be the unluckiest or worst run team in the league.
how much more evidence do we need to know that they have obviously been one of the worst run teams in the league for the last decade?
how many of:
pat flaherty,
mike solari,
hal hunter,
marc columbo,
dave deguglielmo,
rob sale
are still in the NFL?
lucky #7 bobby johnson was an OL coach for just 3 seasons before coming to nyg.
and id say 7 different OL coaches under 5 different head coaches in a span of 9 seasons is a pretty good indicator of being one of the worst run teams in the league over that period of time. on top of the W/L record which is among the worst.
jeff stoutland has been with the eagles since 2013, maybe he was lucky to draft lane johnson his first year and inherit jason kelce but while he's been there they've also developed literal tons of day 2/3 picks into quality OL. mailata, vatai, seumalo, brooks, jurgens, dickerson, probably others im forgetting too. that is what well run looks like. the nyg are on the exact opposite end of that spectrum other than andrew thomas.
Again, Occam’s razor.
Quote:
The state of affairs is a roller coaster.
On one hand the Giants pass catchers are bottom five and the game plans suck, but if the line was better everything would be fine?
Does that really add up?
What’s your take on the state of the offense? What is your solution to improve it?
In the immediate term I'd move Neal to guard and play Ezeudu at right tackle. I'd work to establish the read/option and RPO as much as possible with the current running back group and hope Barkley returns for Miami. If the run game develops some momentum, sprinkle in more combo and stack routes to spring pass catchers open like last year.
I'd view 2023 like 2022 -- a year where it's not implausible to scrape together 9 wins and get in the tournament.
Next year I'd prioritize interior offensive linemen with a premium pick and/or UFA. I'd also draft a QB on day two and start really contemplating whether Jones should be a Giant in 2025.
Thanks for the response. I like the offensive scheme you suggest as I feel that is Jones’ bread and butter. It would also serve to open up deep hits to Hyatt as well, assuming he sees the field more frequently.
And you agree with many here that the OL and game planning both need to improve.