that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
How the Giants handled Saquon in the spring vs now doesn't add up
But let's not pretend the RB position is plug and play. Barkley is by far the most talented back the Giants have had. Replacing him won't be as easy as some people here think.
NFL leading rushers
McCaffery - 1st round
Zach Moss - 3rd round
Etienne - late 1st
Swift - 2nd round
Henry - 2nd round
Mostert - undrafted
Kenneth Walker - 2nd round
James Cook - 2nd round
Bijan Robinson - 1st round
De'Von Achane - 3rd round
Pacheco - 7th round
Kyren Williams - 5th round
Joe Mixon - 2nd round
Breece Hall - 2nd round
Gus Edwards - undrafted
Tony Pollard - 4th round
Saquon Barkley - #2 overall
RE: How the Giants handled Saquon in the spring vs now doesn't add up
It'd be stupid not to. Let's not pretend he's so easily replaceable. They haven't gotten the same level of production from anyone else on the roster for the past 4 years.
The only way I can see hanging onto him this season
is if Schoen is convinced he'll get a better compensatory selection in the spring than he could get in a trade for him now. But after what LW got us, I don't see how SB couldn't net better than what a comp pick would be.
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
He can't help us anymore, either this year or in the future.
RE: It’s clear as day to many here that John has a hard time
I was so happy when Saquon was drafted in 2018. Living in State College, PA, I saw what a terrific player he was and the potential to be a game changer. Since the draft in 2018 he has accomplished much with little support. Yet, his injury history is catching up severely. It disturbed me greatly when Mario Williams caught him from behind from a diagonal approach on that 35+ yard run. He is definitely not the same player the Giants drafted. Injuries take their toll. Not tread, but injuries. Too many and all lower body. I hope Schoen continues to trade wisely and trades him for a second round pick. I wish Saquon well. He does not belong with this Giant team. His future is elsewhere.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
Schoen is too smart to do such a thing without some form of nudge from people higher than him. I really have a hard time believing it would be his decision. He seems way too smart for that.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
You might be right. But I do think Mara is overly sentimental when it comes to these two.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
I’m not saying this is the correct thought process
But, I wonder if this is being done to avoid a locker room collapse.
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
How not trading Barkley for a 5th or 6th draft pick, even a 4th which most of “the let s be sellers” advocates have indicated is unlikely , a terrible blow to this franchise
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
RE: I’m not saying this is the correct thought process
But, I wonder if this is being done to avoid a locker room collapse.
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
I've thought this as well. Daboll wants to win games and I doubt he wants to move Barkley.
This is what you get when you have an owner who fires coaches every two years.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
I was just thinking the other day that I have no idea what kind of team Mara wants to build, what his philosophy is, what his vision for the team is other than he really loves Jones and Barkley.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
They are polite kids who don’t cause waves and probably call him Mr. Mara. It literally might be that simple. And I am only half joking.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
Hey Kent Graham helped bring us an upset of an outstanding Denver team!
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Schoen has to move on from SB at this point. His value will never be as high for this franchise as it is at this very moment. With injury risk and positional value limitations, the time to sell is right now.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
Well there is a little bit of a difference in talent - Joe Montgomery career for the Giants 116 carries for 372 yards whereas Saquon has 1064 carries for 4661 yards.
How not trading Barkley for a 5th or 6th draft pick, even a 4th which most of “the let s be sellers” advocates have indicated is unlikely , a terrible blow to this franchise
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Would you trade Tre Hawkins for Saquon Barkley? I wouldn't. Picks matter. What about Jalin Hyatt?
the mindset that the organization owes a damn thing to Saquan. Even his "amazing" rookie year was a down year for Tiki. He might be a good kid but enough already. Who cares if we don't have him the rest of the year since he shouldn't be here next year.
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
I am not sure you are being sarcastic or obtuse.
RE: RE: Barkley is leading the league in rushing since his return from the
ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Finding a replacement for Barkley isn't a priority. Running backs are indeed easy to find; CMC isn't a viable comp in any way - he's a much better player and San Francisco acquired him as the finishing piece on a Super Bowl contender.
The Giants need to completely reboot their offense: they don't have a quarterback, the OL is poor, and they have no identity. They're in this position in large part because they've committed so much to Barkley.
Replacing Barkley isn't important. Building an offense based on 2023 best practices is.
RE: RE: RE: Barkley is leading the league in rushing since his return from the
ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
4.4 Career YPC is not exceptional. He is the RB version of a coach killer. We were sold a bill of goods of the next Marhsall Faulk style player. He is not that, and never was. What excuse for the 2 crippling doinks in first 3 weeks killing the team instead of pulling them along. His rookie year is it. It is a lifetime ago.
Quote:
In comment 16267929 Jacobs #27 said:
Quote:
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
But let's not pretend the RB position is plug and play. Barkley is by far the most talented back the Giants have had. Replacing him won't be as easy as some people here think.
NFL leading rushers
McCaffery - 1st round
Zach Moss - 3rd round
Etienne - late 1st
Swift - 2nd round
Henry - 2nd round
Mostert - undrafted
Kenneth Walker - 2nd round
James Cook - 2nd round
Bijan Robinson - 1st round
De'Von Achane - 3rd round
Pacheco - 7th round
Kyren Williams - 5th round
Joe Mixon - 2nd round
Breece Hall - 2nd round
Gus Edwards - undrafted
Tony Pollard - 4th round
Saquon Barkley - #2 overall
Why? They can franchise him again next season.
But it would still be the right move.
If Barkley leaves in free agency in March, this is going to look real stupid.
And it would look worse if they give him a big contract and he sustains a serious injury in ‘24, which is likely given his history.
If a RB is the face of your franchise, your franchise is going nowhere.
Quote:
In comment 16267945 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
In comment 16267929 Jacobs #27 said:
Quote:
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
He can't help us anymore, either this year or in the future.
His father had the same problem, only a little worse.
If a RB is the face of your franchise, your franchise is going nowhere.
This is all Mara IMO. Saquon talks about being a Giant for life…word porn to John.
Er, "an impeccable source..."
Shep sure swings a mean towel though!
Quote:
.
Why? They can franchise him again next season.
The only thing dumber than franchising him again next season is signing him to a multi-year deal at similar pricing.
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
Quote:
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
You might be right. But I do think Mara is overly sentimental when it comes to these two.
Wouldn't shock me in the least.
NYG have a revolving door at HC, ASST Coach, GM and player personnel since early 2013.
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
I've thought this as well. Daboll wants to win games and I doubt he wants to move Barkley.
This is what you get when you have an owner who fires coaches every two years.
I was just thinking the other day that I have no idea what kind of team Mara wants to build, what his philosophy is, what his vision for the team is other than he really loves Jones and Barkley.
They are polite kids who don’t cause waves and probably call him Mr. Mara. It literally might be that simple. And I am only half joking.
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
Hey Kent Graham helped bring us an upset of an outstanding Denver team!
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Well there is a little bit of a difference in talent - Joe Montgomery career for the Giants 116 carries for 372 yards whereas Saquon has 1064 carries for 4661 yards.
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Would you trade Tre Hawkins for Saquon Barkley? I wouldn't. Picks matter. What about Jalin Hyatt?
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
There's always Belize.
Quote:
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
I am not sure you are being sarcastic or obtuse.
Quote:
ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
Quote:
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Finding a replacement for Barkley isn't a priority. Running backs are indeed easy to find; CMC isn't a viable comp in any way - he's a much better player and San Francisco acquired him as the finishing piece on a Super Bowl contender.
The Giants need to completely reboot their offense: they don't have a quarterback, the OL is poor, and they have no identity. They're in this position in large part because they've committed so much to Barkley.
Replacing Barkley isn't important. Building an offense based on 2023 best practices is.
Quote:
In comment 16268135 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
4.4 Career YPC is not exceptional. He is the RB version of a coach killer. We were sold a bill of goods of the next Marhsall Faulk style player. He is not that, and never was. What excuse for the 2 crippling doinks in first 3 weeks killing the team instead of pulling them along. His rookie year is it. It is a lifetime ago.