I dont think its wise to go absorb/tie the franchise to big dollars to the lineup until we get a solid pipeline of starting pitching in place.
A bat like Soto would be a big upgrade but we wont get there until we have 2-3 healthy front line starters.
So if Yamamoto is a Met few months from now, we can revisit this.
I don't see how fans can see the results of the Texas Ranges with Nathan Eovaldi and Jordan Mongtomery as their "aces" and feel like the Mets can't compete in 2024.
Scherzer, the guy they expected to be the ace, shit the bed.
deGrom didn't make it out of April.
The Mets can compete in 2023 with quality starters, just need them to be "good enough" but need a lights out bullpen.
I'm starting to feel like sure if you have the cash shell out the money for an ace pitcher, but you don't need them to win championships.
I mean as Mets fans we watched a painful world series with a rotation filled with aces lose to the Royals less than a decade ago.
I dont think its wise to go absorb/tie the franchise to big dollars to the lineup until we get a solid pipeline of starting pitching in place.
A bat like Soto would be a big upgrade but we wont get there until we have 2-3 healthy front line starters.
So if Yamamoto is a Met few months from now, we can revisit this.
I don't see how fans can see the results of the Texas Ranges with Nathan Eovaldi and Jordan Mongtomery as their "aces" and feel like the Mets can't compete in 2024.
Scherzer, the guy they expected to be the ace, shit the bed.
deGrom didn't make it out of April.
The Mets can compete in 2023 with quality starters, just need them to be "good enough" but need a lights out bullpen.
I'm starting to feel like sure if you have the cash shell out the money for an ace pitcher, but you don't need them to win championships.
I mean as Mets fans we watched a painful world series with a rotation filled with aces lose to the Royals less than a decade ago.
i think this is 100% the correct strategy. lights out bullpen, quality lineup that plays defense, starters good enough to just get 5-6 innings of 3 runs or less. basically a rotation of bassitts/quintanas.
i know wins are somewhat of a vanity stat unrelated to the pitcher, but the fact that bartolo had more wins as a met in 3 years than harvey in 6 here has always stuck with me. when he was signed it was as a replacement for harvey's rehab season and he ended up outproducing him and throwing 200 innings every year.
just to impart that post into a real life scenario
one obvious issue is the Mets have nowhere near a top bullpen, in fact it was one of the worst in baseball in 2023. Yeah Diaz is a beast but they traded Robertson (arguably their best RP in 2023). Smith and Gott are filler at best. Raley is solid. Lot of work to be done.
one obvious issue is the Mets have nowhere near a top bullpen, in fact it was one of the worst in baseball in 2023. Yeah Diaz is a beast but they traded Robertson (arguably their best RP in 2023). Smith and Gott are filler at best. Raley is solid. Lot of work to be done.
they need 2 late game adds, and lugo is a perfect 5th sp/flex guy who shifts to pen in postseaon or if someone like vasil is ready to come up.
if eppler was still here robertson would have seemed very likely, now not as sure who stearns will target. suter seems like 1 obvious choice.
pass on bringing back Robertson, back to back seasons where he fell apart second half. His last 2 second half's
52.1 innings 31 walks
At 39, it's fair to wonder if he can handle a full season of pitching when it's happened back to back years (this season obviously worse).
i think part of his falloff was overuse. remember the canha homer was b2b games and at like 30 pitches. then we had to use the crap out of him without diaz. not many other options out there, id be willing to take a chance on him but you have to build enough depth to not over use him. ideally very little b2b or more than 1 inning.
will go somewhere like the Angels, rave about Buck Showalter and then suddenly call Buck racist or something of that nature. Cubs were pretty fed up with him at the end... as most teams tend to be.
to cross off Hader, when reached about his promo video he called himself the best closer in baseball. Not saying he's right or wrong but if he comes to NY it will be with the Yankees. Dodgers reportedly interested.
I would really like to see them add a powerhouse RF. This lineup cooked when Marte was on his game, but he is damaged goods now. Buy him out and look elsewhere. Maybe in Juan Soto's direction.
Add quality Starting Pitchers in their Prime.
No to Stroman. And Hell No to Vogey. This roster needs a refresh.
I would love to see them turn Mauricio into a RF. Perhaps that is where they feel Gilbert will slot into long term.
But one thing that makes sense to me is that you have Acuna, Mauricio, and Jett, and all are middle infielders with SS locked down by Lindor. The obvious solution is you have to start making one or two of these guys outfielders in the near term. Squirrell can play left. I want to see Acuna in the majors by the end of May, and he needs to play MI or CF, CF would be my preference, but then you have to move Nimmo, and that means LF bc he doesn't have a RF arm.
Then Jeff moves to DH? Or permanent 2B? If the latter...Mauricio needs to be in RF or you should just trade someone. Do you really make Jeff the primary DH in this scenario?
He's a fraking shortstop and Vientos / Baty are 3rd baseman.
The obvious thing to do is trade 2 of them since we already have Lindor.
You have a guy who can play like 3 different positions well and you're going to give that up to play him at DH so you can play some guy with no plate discipline and will likely not amount to a hill of beans.
to see what Stearns wants to do. I may be in minority but I don’t see McNeil here for his contract term. I also don’t want Robertson back. Better use of money elsewhere and trust Stearns will see that. You already have Ottavino. Deciding and sticking to a good DH strategy will help too. No more Vogelbachs.
Mets do have some superfluous bats without hard positions they can move for a pitcher or a real steady corner outfielder. While I like versatility and depth, I think some teams also went gung ho on just moving players around the field and are now scaling that back a bit.
Building pitching and positional depth is really key. Mets have for most part had pig slop in depth areas last 3-4 years regardless of high payroll.
said than done but would be great to try and replicate whast Ng did with Miami adding Puk/Tanner Scott for very little, buying low on talent. Scott was one of the top RP in baseball in 2023.
April 3, 2022: Traded by the Baltimore Orioles with Cole Sulser to the Miami Marlins for a player to be named later, Kevin Guerrero (minors) and Antonio Velez (minors). The Miami Marlins sent Yaqui Rivera (minors) (June 1, 2022) to the Baltimore Orioles to complete the trade.
Puk for Bleday, a former 1st rounder who didn't develop at all.
average return date for RP is now around 13 months. SP's 15. For context, Montes De Oca had TJ March 30th and he said he hopes to be back by mid-season.
me, he said he hopes to make an appearance in September and then have a normal off-season for 2025
"“The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me."
had TJ August 2nd. He's out for the entire 2024 season. He's already said he expects to come back strong in 2025.
looks like 2024 is still in play - from yesterday:
Quote:
GLENDALE, Ariz. -- Liam Hendriks intends to pitch at some point late in the 2024 season, despite undergoing Tommy John surgery on Aug. 2 in ‘23.
Quote:
His goal is to get back to the mound as soon as possible, which should surprise no one familiar with Hendriks’ fortitude.
“It’s just who I am. I don’t necessarily want to get into a position mentally where I’m OK with delaying things. It’s going to be a constant push to try and, ‘Oh, this is my goal? I want to beat that goal,’” Hendriks said. “Also doing it in a smart way.
“We’ll see as far as what everything else goes. Just a matter of going through the steps, the game plan from the surgeon. Sent Dr. [Keith] Meister [Hendriks’ Tommy John surgeon] a text, and I’ve already tried to trim some fat off the throwing program a little bit, but we’ll see how that goes.”
“Interesting, but certainly not surprising. The 34-year-old fought his way through chemotherapy and immunotherapy to treat Stage 4 non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, a diagnosis announced on Jan. 8 on his Instagram, and was able to return on May 29. So, he certainly will work his way toward the early side of the 12-14 month recovery following a procedure to repair a torn ulnar collateral ligament.
The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me.
“Depending on what happens contract-wise, who knows if I’m going to need that little showcase at the end of the season to be able to get a job. We’ll take that as it comes. It’s a wide range with one side being back in August and one side not being back at all.”
himself at the end of the season = not an option for the 2024 Mets. Not really sure why you're pushing back on this, it's from his mouth. Best case is August, "worst case" is misses the full season, and if he pushes it, early September. That's from him.
me, he said he hopes to make an appearance in September and then have a normal off-season for 2025
"“The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me."
So yeah, he's not a 2024 option
id take the risk. it will be cheap because the odds are he is nowhere near "liam hendriks" but if he does somehow return in time to get to the postseason roster you may be getting a back end guy for the games that matter in october. not too different from risks like holland and betances in years past where you are hoping to get lucky, except with cohen the $ is there so if it doesnt work out it's no big deal.
reportedly hopes to head back to the Dodgers. I wonder if he takes less to go there, Muncy's extension was team friendly. The weather obviously helps but the " winning culture" does team to help the Dodgers
“Interesting, but certainly not surprising. The 34-year-old fought his way through chemotherapy and immunotherapy to treat Stage 4 non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, a diagnosis announced on Jan. 8 on his Instagram, and was able to return on May 29. So, he certainly will work his way toward the early side of the 12-14 month recovery following a procedure to repair a torn ulnar collateral ligament.
The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me.
“Depending on what happens contract-wise, who knows if I’m going to need that little showcase at the end of the season to be able to get a job. We’ll take that as it comes. It’s a wide range with one side being back in August and one side not being back at all.”
this is the exact point - you are gambling on an unpredictable range hoping he hits the side in august/sept so he can be of value in oct. there may not be any other teams willing to risk 2-3m on that.
point is, if absolute best case is August and "worst case" is all of 2024(his own words) and saying he may pitch at the end of the season as a showcase that's not really a piece of the 2024 bullpen. That's a "bonus" if it works out.
Obviously his career has been a roller coaster and he has struggled mightily at times, but he's the kind of gamble I think a team like the Mets could take. Not relying on him for a specific role, but if he gets "right" can be a wild card in the pen.
point is, if absolute best case is August and "worst case" is all of 2024(his own words) and saying he may pitch at the end of the season as a showcase that's not really a piece of the 2024 bullpen. That's a "bonus" if it works out.
100% but if it works out it saves you trading a vargas type prospect at the deadline for whoever next years robertson is. the injury makes the price somewhere way south of what even robertson will cost with an arguably higher upside.
i have wanted drew smith gone for most of the last 2 years but him being in the bp through july and then hopefully replaced by hendriks aug-oct is a fine use of a "slot".
they'd still need to sign a robertson + suter combo. get lugo as your 5th SP and you can hope that a postseason BP would be diaz closing with robertson, suter, hendriks, lugo, otto, raley setting up. even if only 3 of those 6 pitch well/stay healthy you have a 4 deep back end.
you can probably get lugo, robertson, suter, hendriks for somwhere between 25-30m in 2024. lugo probably the only guy who needs a multi-year deal. which leaves room for a big multi-year deal for at least 1 top rotation SP while keeping the payroll in the neighborhood of the 2022 level.
i think that would be my plan - along with being "opportunistic" for soto/ohtani if either is gettable. getting 1 of those guys is pretty much the only way i can see the payroll matching the 2023 level.
Brewers did pretty well here. Not sure there is a massive gap between Holub and Jarvis value-wise when you consider it was a deadline deal (higher costs) Jarvis is rule 5 eligible and *likely* a RP himself. Especially, when deadline costs are generally higher.
Boca -- Where has JT Schwartz been playing in the Field. I know he's got first baseman's glove and some outfield burn.
Rory -- I wish you'd expand on your 'bad fit' assessment of Soto. His OPS is always over 900, and he's only 25 years old.
1B and looked good, comfortable there.
The problem is he doesn’t look like he has the pop you want from a 1B
Perhaps, JT said in an interview that he wants to be a gap to gap hitter vs. a pull guy. I actually saw him do this, hit to left late in the count. He had 2 doubles and 2 Hrs in the four games I was there.
A bat like Soto would be a big upgrade but we wont get there until we have 2-3 healthy front line starters.
So if Yamamoto is a Met few months from now, we can revisit this.
I don't see how fans can see the results of the Texas Ranges with Nathan Eovaldi and Jordan Mongtomery as their "aces" and feel like the Mets can't compete in 2024.
Scherzer, the guy they expected to be the ace, shit the bed.
deGrom didn't make it out of April.
The Mets can compete in 2023 with quality starters, just need them to be "good enough" but need a lights out bullpen.
I'm starting to feel like sure if you have the cash shell out the money for an ace pitcher, but you don't need them to win championships.
I mean as Mets fans we watched a painful world series with a rotation filled with aces lose to the Royals less than a decade ago.
Also per Clegg (Yamamoto)
138 Pitches
FB: 93-96 mph/low release/high IVB
SPL: 88-91 low spin/12+ in of fade
SL: 83-86 12+ inches of sweep
CB: 75-78 12-6 shape
FC: low-90s
Quote:
I dont think its wise to go absorb/tie the franchise to big dollars to the lineup until we get a solid pipeline of starting pitching in place.
A bat like Soto would be a big upgrade but we wont get there until we have 2-3 healthy front line starters.
So if Yamamoto is a Met few months from now, we can revisit this.
I don't see how fans can see the results of the Texas Ranges with Nathan Eovaldi and Jordan Mongtomery as their "aces" and feel like the Mets can't compete in 2024.
Scherzer, the guy they expected to be the ace, shit the bed.
deGrom didn't make it out of April.
The Mets can compete in 2023 with quality starters, just need them to be "good enough" but need a lights out bullpen.
I'm starting to feel like sure if you have the cash shell out the money for an ace pitcher, but you don't need them to win championships.
I mean as Mets fans we watched a painful world series with a rotation filled with aces lose to the Royals less than a decade ago.
i think this is 100% the correct strategy. lights out bullpen, quality lineup that plays defense, starters good enough to just get 5-6 innings of 3 runs or less. basically a rotation of bassitts/quintanas.
i know wins are somewhat of a vanity stat unrelated to the pitcher, but the fact that bartolo had more wins as a met in 3 years than harvey in 6 here has always stuck with me. when he was signed it was as a replacement for harvey's rehab season and he ended up outproducing him and throwing 200 innings every year.
a) soto (40m), montgomery (25m), lugo (10m), robertson or other "2nd closer" (10m), another reliever like suter ($5m)
b) yamamoto (30m), montgomery (25m), lugo (10m), robertson or other "2nd closer" (10m), canha (10m), another reliever like suter ($5m)
to me it's A no question. if you can get ohtani instead of soto, that's even better. though i also wont complain about B if that's where things go.
52.1 innings 31 walks
At 39, it's fair to wonder if he can handle a full season of pitching when it's happened back to back years (this season obviously worse).
they need 2 late game adds, and lugo is a perfect 5th sp/flex guy who shifts to pen in postseaon or if someone like vasil is ready to come up.
if eppler was still here robertson would have seemed very likely, now not as sure who stearns will target. suter seems like 1 obvious choice.
52.1 innings 31 walks
At 39, it's fair to wonder if he can handle a full season of pitching when it's happened back to back years (this season obviously worse).
i think part of his falloff was overuse. remember the canha homer was b2b games and at like 30 pitches. then we had to use the crap out of him without diaz. not many other options out there, id be willing to take a chance on him but you have to build enough depth to not over use him. ideally very little b2b or more than 1 inning.
Quote:
I would really like to see them add a powerhouse RF. This lineup cooked when Marte was on his game, but he is damaged goods now. Buy him out and look elsewhere. Maybe in Juan Soto's direction.
Add quality Starting Pitchers in their Prime.
No to Stroman. And Hell No to Vogey. This roster needs a refresh.
I would love to see them turn Mauricio into a RF. Perhaps that is where they feel Gilbert will slot into long term.
But one thing that makes sense to me is that you have Acuna, Mauricio, and Jett, and all are middle infielders with SS locked down by Lindor. The obvious solution is you have to start making one or two of these guys outfielders in the near term. Squirrell can play left. I want to see Acuna in the majors by the end of May, and he needs to play MI or CF, CF would be my preference, but then you have to move Nimmo, and that means LF bc he doesn't have a RF arm.
Then Jeff moves to DH? Or permanent 2B? If the latter...Mauricio needs to be in RF or you should just trade someone. Do you really make Jeff the primary DH in this scenario?
He's a fraking shortstop and Vientos / Baty are 3rd baseman.
The obvious thing to do is trade 2 of them since we already have Lindor.
You have a guy who can play like 3 different positions well and you're going to give that up to play him at DH so you can play some guy with no plate discipline and will likely not amount to a hill of beans.
suter
robertson
hendriks
will smith
reynaldo lopez
hicks
agree re launching drew smith to the sun.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/relief-pitcher/ - ( New Window )
suter
robertson
hendriks
will smith
reynaldo lopez
hicks
agree re launching drew smith to the sun. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/relief-pitcher/ - ( New Window )
Hendriks would be a 2025 option. Will miss the entire 2024 season.
Mets do have some superfluous bats without hard positions they can move for a pitcher or a real steady corner outfielder. While I like versatility and depth, I think some teams also went gung ho on just moving players around the field and are now scaling that back a bit.
Building pitching and positional depth is really key. Mets have for most part had pig slop in depth areas last 3-4 years regardless of high payroll.
April 3, 2022: Traded by the Baltimore Orioles with Cole Sulser to the Miami Marlins for a player to be named later, Kevin Guerrero (minors) and Antonio Velez (minors). The Miami Marlins sent Yaqui Rivera (minors) (June 1, 2022) to the Baltimore Orioles to complete the trade.
Puk for Bleday, a former 1st rounder who didn't develop at all.
https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/free-agent-tracker?&pos=rp - ( New Window )
Quote:
martinez/lugo as flex guys
suter
robertson
hendriks
will smith
reynaldo lopez
hicks
agree re launching drew smith to the sun. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/relief-pitcher/ - ( New Window )
Hendriks would be a 2025 option. Will miss the entire 2024 season.
is that confirmed? surgery was right around deadline and relievers usually come back quicker than sp.
"“The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me."
So yeah, he's not a 2024 option
looks like 2024 is still in play - from yesterday:
“It’s just who I am. I don’t necessarily want to get into a position mentally where I’m OK with delaying things. It’s going to be a constant push to try and, ‘Oh, this is my goal? I want to beat that goal,’” Hendriks said. “Also doing it in a smart way.
“We’ll see as far as what everything else goes. Just a matter of going through the steps, the game plan from the surgeon. Sent Dr. [Keith] Meister [Hendriks’ Tommy John surgeon] a text, and I’ve already tried to trim some fat off the throwing program a little bit, but we’ll see how that goes.”
White Sox decline option on Hendriks; Clevinger declines his option - ( New Window )
The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me.
“Depending on what happens contract-wise, who knows if I’m going to need that little showcase at the end of the season to be able to get a job. We’ll take that as it comes. It’s a wide range with one side being back in August and one side not being back at all.”
52.1 innings 31 walks
At 39, it's fair to wonder if he can handle a full season of pitching when it's happened back to back years (this season obviously worse).
I'd also pass on Robertson, but make a quality set-up man s top priority.
"“The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me."
So yeah, he's not a 2024 option
id take the risk. it will be cheap because the odds are he is nowhere near "liam hendriks" but if he does somehow return in time to get to the postseason roster you may be getting a back end guy for the games that matter in october. not too different from risks like holland and betances in years past where you are hoping to get lucky, except with cohen the $ is there so if it doesnt work out it's no big deal.
The lower end of that, if I push it, 13 months will be around Sept. 2,” Hendriks said. “My goal is to be able to pitch next year and then be able to have a relatively normal offseason. I want to be able to get back out there and pitch and go back into my normal routine, a little bit more of just the way I do my offseason throwing programs and stuff like that. It’s going to be an important facet for me.
“Depending on what happens contract-wise, who knows if I’m going to need that little showcase at the end of the season to be able to get a job. We’ll take that as it comes. It’s a wide range with one side being back in August and one side not being back at all.”
this is the exact point - you are gambling on an unpredictable range hoping he hits the side in august/sept so he can be of value in oct. there may not be any other teams willing to risk 2-3m on that.
Obviously his career has been a roller coaster and he has struggled mightily at times, but he's the kind of gamble I think a team like the Mets could take. Not relying on him for a specific role, but if he gets "right" can be a wild card in the pen.
Forgot Barlow was traded to SD at the deadline
Correction, it's *believed* this would be the final class that wouldn't be impacted but that's unclear.
100% but if it works out it saves you trading a vargas type prospect at the deadline for whoever next years robertson is. the injury makes the price somewhere way south of what even robertson will cost with an arguably higher upside.
i have wanted drew smith gone for most of the last 2 years but him being in the bp through july and then hopefully replaced by hendriks aug-oct is a fine use of a "slot".
they'd still need to sign a robertson + suter combo. get lugo as your 5th SP and you can hope that a postseason BP would be diaz closing with robertson, suter, hendriks, lugo, otto, raley setting up. even if only 3 of those 6 pitch well/stay healthy you have a 4 deep back end.
you can probably get lugo, robertson, suter, hendriks for somwhere between 25-30m in 2024. lugo probably the only guy who needs a multi-year deal. which leaves room for a big multi-year deal for at least 1 top rotation SP while keeping the payroll in the neighborhood of the 2022 level.
i think that would be my plan - along with being "opportunistic" for soto/ohtani if either is gettable. getting 1 of those guys is pretty much the only way i can see the payroll matching the 2023 level.
Quote:
In comment 16272994 Named Later said:
Quote:
Boca -- Where has JT Schwartz been playing in the Field. I know he's got first baseman's glove and some outfield burn.
Rory -- I wish you'd expand on your 'bad fit' assessment of Soto. His OPS is always over 900, and he's only 25 years old.
1B and looked good, comfortable there.
The problem is he doesn’t look like he has the pop you want from a 1B
Perhaps, JT said in an interview that he wants to be a gap to gap hitter vs. a pull guy. I actually saw him do this, hit to left late in the count. He had 2 doubles and 2 Hrs in the four games I was there.
He gave me a John Olerud vibe. Lots of doubles.
Amen! Everytime I think he has finally made it to the next step, he gives up another HR...everytime, every year!
meaning no compensation other than $$ needed to bring him in, right? Not a bad 2nd sp signing for this off season