My next day “non-emotional” thoughts from yesterday’s game. As always, feel free to add your own, argue with mine etc…
Dallas 49 Giants 17: Giants fall to 2-8 in another non-competitive game against a division opponent. As fans we’re all in a strange spot for the rest of the season, it behooves this franchise to continue losing, however watching these beatdowns at the hands of a division opponent is still painful. I think I would be okay to speak for the rest of us when I say we all hate the Cowboys and watching a 32-point loss to them is hard even if it gets us closer to the number 1 pick. While this was the exact result I expected and I’d be willing to say most of the board expected, it was still ugly football which Giants fans have become tired of watching over the past 11 seasons. I know we’re not going to go on a run and the season is now about how high we pick, but dear god show some life against Washington and Philly when we play them…
Ugly game, hard to watch. The good news is it’s over and we now pick 2nd if you’re tracking such a thing.
Offense:
A young local kid is now at the helm of the Giants offense. Where our beats were busy writing articles about playoff hopes and Daboll’s turn around of this team last November, this November featured articles about our 3rd stringer playing for his childhood team while living with his parents and having his mom cook him dinner every night. Boy have things changed… Unfortunately for Tommy DeVito the likelihood is that his major contribution to his favorite childhood team will be leading them to an 0-8 record and allowing them to draft their next franchise QB. If he has any impact as a player in the future, it is likely as a back up with this season serving as a trial by fire for a kid that clearly needed at least a full season on the practice squad. While I see the athleticism required and a good strong arm, he’s still very slow reading the field and until that speeds up, he won’t play like an NFL QB. For the next 7 weeks I’ll try not to dump on Tommy, he shouldn’t be where he is right now, but I’ll continue to look for some good in his play and will be quick to point it out when I see it. Hopefully he can turn himself into a decent back up.
Looking at the rest of the offense, I’m not even sure who to single out or talk about. We scored 17 points which was a good effort in comparison to the rest of the season, however the bulk of our drives were 4 plays and under with 7 points coming in garbage time, which I’ll comment on in coaching. Saquon ran okay and continues to play hard in a lost season, but game flow held him to 14 total touches. Of everything that perplexes me surrounding Barkley, the inability to get him the ball in the passing game has always been at the top of the list. Maybe I just dreamed him 90+ balls for over 700 yards with Pat Shurmur, but I always at least thought he was an asset in the passing game. As we move forward with this season and try to develop DeVito, allowing Barkley to do more work as a safety valve is something I’m looking for. 14 touches aren’t enough for Saquon, I don’t care who is at QB.
Defense:
49 points… If I’m correct, that’s all the assessment I really need to make. Where the offense has been putrid all season our defense has been the unit that has pulled out some very good showings and I believe has the potential to be good. Oddly, this is also the side of the ball that I see “losing it” and beginning to make business decisions within game. I can see the frustration of posting 3 straight games of 14 points or less and only getting 1 win, my fear with this group is that their mentality is “the offense isn’t going to score so we’re not going to win unless we pitch a shutout” instead of “we need to just keep plugging along and give the offense the best chance to win”. Players need to stop pointing fingers and looking for someone to blame and instead, realize that taking some accountability is the only way things are going to get any better.
Getting into individual players I have very few comments as I’m just rating our defense as overall “horrible”, but here are some thoughts. We’re seeing the loss of Leo Williams hitting this team exactly where we thought it would. Dexter Lawrence and Kayvon Thibodeaux haven’t registered a sack in the two games since he’s been traded and there’s a noticeable difference in how we hold up against the run. I do think you’ll see Dex and KT adjust to this and start picking up sacks again, however I don’t want to act like Leo leaving hasn’t impacted the team. Kudos to both Flott and Holmes for picking up an interception during the game, however both continue to also make mistakes. I don’t see Holmes on this team next year however Flott has flashed enough where I’m hopeful he can take a step forward next year. Deonte Banks started strong but has now had a couple of tough games in a row. Remember this, CB is typically the slowest position to develop, and some players don’t have their best seasons until they are 5-6 years in the league. Banks will be fine going forward.
Coaching:
Starting right with the first play of the game, I’m a little bit lost on what went on with the challenge on the very clear Brandin Cooks non-fumble. It seems like Daboll threw the flag and tried to take it back? I’m not sure, but it was a really bad way to start a game, just messing something like that up right out of the gate. Daboll will be back next season, as will Schoen, the in game decisions like this are something he needs to clean up. This may be via putting together a better support system around him as I’m rather certain there is someone who’s job it is to say “throw the flag” or “don’t throw the flag”. While I think he’ll be back, I don’t think our entire coaching staff will and whoever helps with the in game stuff should be on notice.
Even though Daboll is an offensive coach, I’m still operating on the assumption this is Kafka’s offense and he’s calling plays. Knowing that, there are a few things I’d like to see him do to help out DeVito starting with getting Saquon more active in the passing game, 2nd would be doing the same for Bellinger and 3rd would be running more read option. I know we’re down 2 QBs as is and they may have the read option out of the game for “health” reasons, but let’s be real, is it a big hit to us if DeVito goes down and replaced with Matt Barkley??? Run the offense that works
best for your QB.
Wink has some soul searching to do. We’ve seen where Wink can be and has been a very good coordinator in this league. I don’t have a doubt in his ability to do his job. Where I do have a doubt with Wink is the fact that in all his time with The Ravens, they never had a team that was this big of a disaster and he’s never coached through adversity like this. When I watch our offense, I see a lack of talent and a 3rd string QB, when I watch our defense, I see players who are checking out or not bringing 110%, this scares me. Wink needs to get this group back together, if he must bench a
vet to send a message, he needs to do it.
Finishing up the coaching section with commenting on the final garbage time drive which resulted in a TD to Sterling Shepard. While it can be easy to say “what was the point” I liked the fact that Daboll didn’t hold back and tried to score despite the game being over. Why? The number one thing you fear is players quitting on the team during a losing season, drives like this not only help show you who is playing hard, they also send a message that you’re going to give opportunities to the guys that keep playing hard. While Shepard’s best days are very clearly behind him and his place on this team is questionable, I’ve never seen him quit. At this point the players who play the hardest should be in the game, even if they are not your best players.
Conclusion:
I hate losing and I’m not a fan of tanking, however it’s hard not to concede that now improving your draft position and looking forward to the 2024 draft is what is best for this franchise. We lost, Arizona won, we’re currently slated to pick 2nd in the draft which would guarantee us one of Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, both of whom I’m very high on. Still, I can’t help but to feel wrong for thinking this way, I’d rather Tommy DeVito surprise us all and take this team on a 7-game winning streak, but the realist in me says that won’t happen.
Next week we have a match up that looks somewhat winnable in a normal season due to how poor the Patriots have played this season, however throwing a 3rd string QB against a Bill Belichick defense is a recipe for disaster regardless of how good or bad the Patriots are. If our defense decides to show up this can be a 13-10 game where we have a very good chance of winning, however I just don’t know what defense we’re going to get. I’m trying to level set and just keep telling myself that the rest of this season is about developing young players and helping set us up for 2024, but I still want to win games, and this is a winnable one… Regardless of the outcome, I need to see this team play hard and keep it together for the rest of the season.
Mine is McKinney.
I feel like that's what we're seeing with Daboll, with stuff like the challenge, not having any creative plays in big situations etc. He's just unbelievably bad this year.
I asked this during the game thread: What evidence is there to suggest Brian Daboll is a good coach this year? Forget last year for a second. He'd be the first to say "last year is last year". Can anyone find 1 thing this guy's done this year that you can say "good coach"?
Just 1 thing.
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Thanks as always. Benching a starter is a tried and true way of gaining attention. I’m surprised Wink and Daboll haven’t done so. Who is your candidate on D?
Mine is McKinney.
To me, this looks like retaliation for off the field activity instead of a performance based decision. I would take this off the table.
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In comment 16286921 cosmicj said:
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Thanks as always. Benching a starter is a tried and true way of gaining attention. I’m surprised Wink and Daboll haven’t done so. Who is your candidate on D?
Mine is McKinney.
To me, this looks like retaliation for off the field activity instead of a performance based decision. I would take this off the table.
He was not good yesterday and he is a goner, not at all worth keeping.
‘Coaching’ has been shaky all year IMO. I believe in Daboll, but my god how do you needlessly burn a timeout on the first play of the game. I understand the conservative playcalling, but you can’t telegraph the run all the time; need some wrinkles, misdirection, more creative playcalling. I’m really perplexed with the schemes at times on defense, and with Kafka’s playcalling on offense. Lol, they’ve taken the bullseye off of T-Mac.
We need to see a more competitive team moving forward. Blowouts every week WILL lose Daboll his job IMO. Gut check time, play with some urgency and focus…yes, BENCH some guys as needed to send a message. I get where we are as a team, but we should be more competitive. I think the next 3-4 weeks may be more important than we realize for many of these coaches and players.
The offense will only go as far as the OL will allow it to, which in this case, is about 3 yards per drive. Until it gets fixed, the offense will not get out of its own way. Obviously, injuries have played a big part in the dysfunction, but at some point, we have to wonder about some of Schoen’s picks and signings. Neal has been awful, but if he can be made into a serviceable OG, than maybe the pick is somewhat salvageable. But then there are the other picks and pick ups. Ezeudu and McKethon have been awful, it’s year 2 for these guys, we should see some improvement.
The D has talent, but many of us here were a little suspect of the Wink hiring. While he can be an imaginative creator of pressure, he needs top end talent on the back end to allow him to dial that pressure up. To be fair, he’s dealing with injuries in the back end, but his insistence on playing man when his DB’s are being burned all afternoon shows a stubbornness that limits Wink’s effectiveness as a DC.
The defense has been either solid or a disaster each week without rhyme or reason this season. Offensive TOP is a big part of that I think, and just a general lack of moral from the pathetic performances this offense shows week to week probably only contributed to that further. Cowboys had 28 points on the board before the Giants had 28 yards of total offense. Let that sink in.
What’s hardest is actually being able to make a proper evaluation on certain pieces on offense with how terrible the QB play has been all season. Players that appear wide open are often not thrown the ball or thrown the ball too late. There is no momentum being built because they can’t get anything going at all. The Giants offense is truly on a hamster wheel, and when I watch the rest of the league it’s fair to say we have the worst offense in the league by a lot.
I think they can turn this around if they nail the QB pick. I don’t care for Kafka and would like to see change at OC, feel the only time this team played any good offensive series this year was when Daboll took over playcalling. That’s a problem. OL coach needs to go too, they just can’t develop anyone, we have the worst track record with drafting OL that I hope they don’t bother to draft any until they fix their scouting department and coaching fully in that area. Add to that group via FA.
While there are many that blame all of the trouble on a poor OL for over a decade now which is true. How much of this problem is compounded by the fact that we had a statute back there (in Eli) and then a QB who is slow to go through his progressions and afraid to take shots outside his first read? Find the QB that is a true modern franchise player and the rest will fall into place. Hoping Williams, Maye and Daniel’s are truly the next coming of Rivers, Eli, and Rothlisberger. Find the guy who will be the best fit for NY and don’t think twice about it.
Maybe, but who really gets credit for that? Wink or Daboll? The offense was putrid in that game and failed to execute in important situations.
Think about other weird stuff like Cole Beasley asking off the practice squad even though he didn’t sign anywhere. Didn’t even want a paycheck from the Giants anymore.
I feel like that's what we're seeing with Daboll, with stuff like the challenge, not having any creative plays in big situations etc. He's just unbelievably bad this year.
I asked this during the game thread: What evidence is there to suggest Brian Daboll is a good coach this year? Forget last year for a second. He'd be the first to say "last year is last year". Can anyone find 1 thing this guy's done this year that you can say "good coach"?
Just 1 thing.
I can't.
In fact, I'll take it one step further and say that he had a terrible showing in the playoff loss at Philly.
Training camp and the preseason now looks like a joke. When you let the players take the preseason off and then come out opening night and get your doors blown off by a division rival in a week 1 statement game, it's not a good look.
The roster cut down decisions were a disaster. Eric Gray on punt return. Shepard, Lemiuex and Peart on this final roster over guys like Philips and Crowder who were clearly better options. The decision to put Andrew Thomas back in the game after practically tearing his hammy. Ezeudu at left tackle was laughable.
And on and on and on.
What really hurts is KT and Hyatt out with concussions.
Somehow, trying to be a semblance of an NFL the rest of the way is what I want to see...Devito improve to where he could be a back up next year...young players begin to show why we drafted them, The coach regaining the reigns so less doubt creeps into the mind going into next year.
Go ahead and surprise us and win 4 in a row. I personally would be happy.
Also
Somehow, trying to be a semblance of an NFL the rest of the way is what I want to see...Devito improve to where he could be a back up next year...young players begin to show why we drafted them, The coach regaining the reigns so less doubt creeps into the mind going into next year.
Go ahead and surprise us and win 4 in a row. I personally would be happy.
Also
Who do you want in the draft at QB. I’ll hang up and listen.
and keep it together for the rest of the season."
BiteyMax -- I really appreciate your reviews and quite frankly you must have a tremendous amount of intestinal fortitude to even bother writing one after yesterday's game.
The only thing that struck me as odd was your remark which I've reproduced above. I'm assuming it is wishful thinking since the toothpaste has been thoroughly squeezed out of the Giants tube, and there is no way of putting it back.
In other words, the season is over and all that remains are your post-mortems.
It’s not even that mysterious. Happens all the time. NFL defenses have a book on the Daboll/Kakfa offense and they are being exposed now. I see no reason to continue with these guys.
‘Coaching’ has been shaky all year IMO. I believe in Daboll, but my god how do you needlessly burn a timeout on the first play of the game. I understand the conservative playcalling, but you can’t telegraph the run all the time; need some wrinkles, misdirection, more creative playcalling. I’m really perplexed with the schemes at times on defense, and with Kafka’s playcalling on offense. Lol, they’ve taken the bullseye off of T-Mac.
We need to see a more competitive team moving forward. Blowouts every week WILL lose Daboll his job IMO. Gut check time, play with some urgency and focus…yes, BENCH some guys as needed to send a message. I get where we are as a team, but we should be more competitive. I think the next 3-4 weeks may be more important than we realize for many of these coaches and players.
OMG I looked at the wrong date on the calendar...
It’s not even that mysterious. Happens all the time. NFL defenses have a book on the Daboll/Kakfa offense and they are being exposed now. I see no reason to continue with these guys.
Really easy to figure out a coach when half his already bad OLine is on crutches, and the QB refuses to unload the ball when he isn't on his back.
Last night every Dallas defender mirrored Barkley - shocking! How did they know Saquon would be getting the ball?
Tanking is not bad...but there's ways to tank without letting everyone know.
I predict AT's knee will continue to bother him to the point where he's on IR at the end of the year.
Both KT and Dex will start having some soft tissue issues and miss some games. McFadden and Bobby O are good players and will be here next year as the starting ILBs.
The rest of the season should be viewed as a glorified pre-season schedule. Play the young guys, evaluate the talent you have in the depths of the roster.
Is Tre Hawkins a JAG, depth, or do we need a CB? Are J. Riley and DJ Davidson any good? Dane Belton should be on the field A LOT moving forward.
The offense is hopeless. There's literally nothing to see here. I guess your best bet is to showcase SB and tag and trade him over summer.
I still maintain that Neal is the most important player to evaluate moving forward. He's got to get healthy and the team needs to figure out what his future in blue is going to be.
I don't even know if they have anyone other than Hyatt and Robinson that are worth keeping. There's not even much depth in the "offensive weapons" department that's worth exploring.
He seems better catching the ball when he is downfield running wheel routes than he is catching check downs and screens.
and keep it together for the rest of the season."
BiteyMax -- I really appreciate your reviews and quite frankly you must have a tremendous amount of intestinal fortitude to even bother writing one after yesterday's game.
The only thing that struck me as odd was your remark which I've reproduced above. I'm assuming it is wishful thinking since the toothpaste has been thoroughly squeezed out of the Giants tube, and there is no way of putting it back.
In other words, the season is over and all that remains are your post-mortems.
In short with a 3rd string QB and the roster as it is, I don't see us winning any more games, but I also don't want to see the team quit.
Unlike during the Shurmur, McAdoo, Judge tenures, can we find a way to build something while losing that we can roll into next season. An identity? Possibly just growth of young players etc...?
But really, they were horrible SO bad during the 1-4 start that they are at least the "1A" reason (the OL being #1) to this season starting stillborn.
And this after the defense having two straight 1st round picks and every significant UFA signing being on defense (Okereke, Nunez-Roches, A'Shawn Robinson) plus a trade for Basham.
Martindale got everything he wanted and then some, and the defense is a freakin laughingstock.
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In comment 16286921 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Thanks as always. Benching a starter is a tried and true way of gaining attention. I’m surprised Wink and Daboll haven’t done so. Who is your candidate on D?
Mine is McKinney.
To me, this looks like retaliation for off the field activity instead of a performance based decision. I would take this off the table.
This just my opinion but I believe KT got benched in the second half and it wasn’t a concussion. I asked if any saw the play in which he was hit or fell? I don’t believe he registered a tackle.
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In comment 16286929 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16286921 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Thanks as always. Benching a starter is a tried and true way of gaining attention. I’m surprised Wink and Daboll haven’t done so. Who is your candidate on D?
Mine is McKinney.
To me, this looks like retaliation for off the field activity instead of a performance based decision. I would take this off the table.
This just my opinion but I believe KT got benched in the second half and it wasn’t a concussion. I asked if any saw the play in which he was hit or fell? I don’t believe he registered a tackle.
He sucked last week too, against a horrible team.
I hope he is not living up to his pre-draft rep of not playing hard 100% of the time.
He seems better catching the ball when he is downfield running wheel routes than he is catching check downs and screens.
Been saying this for a long time - stone hands, no feel for the short passing game and quickly getting north south. A good player, never been a great player. Not worth the coin at this point. I like the player, he is GOOD and he cares….but time to turn the page on both Saquon and DJ.
I'm not. he shouldn't
2. Not an excuse, but a replay of the first play of the game was not shown in the stadium until it was determined that the Giants would be charged a timeout. It’s a joke what the NFL allows on this. When they finally showed the replay, it was so obvious it was not a fumble. They even did the courtesy of freezing the replay to prove the point.
3. I hate that the Giants are in this position, but they need to hit rock bottom to complete the full reset. Losing out is best for the future - identify who should be on the roster moving forward (beyond the obvious who have already been signed to long term deals). And of course lock up the top 1 or 2 picks and don’t screw up the QB pick. DJ is done here. Unfortunate it didn’t work out, but move on. Even without picking a QB in the draft, DJ’s contribution next season would be minimal with his ACL recovery. And we all knew he would be gone in ‘25 anyway if he didn’t perform. Now it’s fait accompli.
4. I really enjoy these write-ups. We are all passionate about the Giants, but this forum gives us an opportunity to discuss the result in a rational fashion after “sleeping on it” from a fans perspective; win or lose.
Thanks Bernie. RE: point #1 - that's how I felt watching the Judge/Garrett offense in training camp vs. the Patriots. It didn't even look like they were trying to move the ball. To borrow a term I hate: "It looked like they were trying to f#ck a doorknob." I've never understood that quote until I watched the Giants practice that day.
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We were all like "no way he gets fired" and then unbelievably dumb stuff kept happening.
I feel like that's what we're seeing with Daboll, with stuff like the challenge, not having any creative plays in big situations etc. He's just unbelievably bad this year.
I asked this during the game thread: What evidence is there to suggest Brian Daboll is a good coach this year? Forget last year for a second. He'd be the first to say "last year is last year". Can anyone find 1 thing this guy's done this year that you can say "good coach"?
Just 1 thing.
I can't.
In fact, I'll take it one step further and say that he had a terrible showing in the playoff loss at Philly.
Training camp and the preseason now looks like a joke. When you let the players take the preseason off and then come out opening night and get your doors blown off by a division rival in a week 1 statement game, it's not a good look.
The roster cut down decisions were a disaster. Eric Gray on punt return. Shepard, Lemiuex and Peart on this final roster over guys like Philips and Crowder who were clearly better options. The decision to put Andrew Thomas back in the game after practically tearing his hammy. Ezeudu at left tackle was laughable.
And on and on and on.
This is where I'm at.
Unprepared, bad decisions, soft, no fight.
Daboll will be here next year unless the Giants are pummeled the rest of the way, which could happen.
I don't see Daboll as a master motivator and that more than anything is what we need now.
Two points; I m not sure I agree that Devito has a strong arm, in fact fact I suspect he lacks the arm talent to last very long in the NFL
Wink, I think his philosophy of a positionless defense is flawed. He doesn’t seem to be fooling anyone. Maybe just let people play where they are best suited and do what they do best
It bothers me he has never had a double sack guy, and how poor his team has been against the run for most of two years. I m hoping they move on from him.