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| But they are a long way away from any final decision, and the source acknowledged it might be premature for them to completely give up on Jones after watching him in just six starts this season — including three without running back Saquon Barkley, four without left tackle Andrew Thomas, and behind a disastrous offensive line that got him sacked a ridiculous 30 times. |
Haha! So perfect
and now we hVe this click bait article which basically states they believe in Jones but may not when thebtime comes to make a decision, lol, the media sees blood in the water and gullible Giants fans will eat it up
One, I have lost confidence in his ability to stay healthy, and I just have this feeling that he his one more neck injury aware from having tom retire.
Two, unlike previous years, we are going to be in a position to draft a real difference maker at QB. My preference is Daniels, but I think any of Daniels, Maye or Williams would be that franchise altering type of QB. While I always thought DJ could be "good enough," I acknowledged that for the Giants to win a SB with DJ, there would have to be a lot of pieces in place. I think any of the top three QBs are the type of talents who could overcome and coverup deficiencies in other arears of the team.
Yessir, like clockwork.
I wouldn’t celebrate too much. Random, unknown “Sources” are lovely and all but we will find out how they feel on draft day. What do you expect them to say right now? “Yeah, he sucks, we are going to move on”.
I will say though, if you and all the other clamoring to roll with Jones once again get your way, Daboll and Schoen will very likely be out of jobs after next season. They’d have to be out of their damned minds to stake their careers to Daniel Jones at this point.
I used to think that...but I'm not sure with the best Oline if he will ever be good, might just be too late for him.
On one hand it's a relief that it's not real if the fans don't want it to be. On the other hand, John Mara believes this is a completely normal way to run your NFL franchise.
This points to the mealy mouth pussywimp owner. He will never stop his greasy fingers touching all personnel decisions.
They didn't say it publicly. They floated it through one of their friends in the media. Ralph always gets this kind of stuff, less than two years ago he was citing sources in the organization as late as mid-December that Judge was going to be kept. It was only Judge's self-immolation and the collective ire of basically everyone that prevented a Judge-Abrams combo running things in 2022.
If Jones plays amazing, Dre Brees him to another team. If Jones stinks, cut him or demote him to QB2 by mid season or following season.
For me its actually the best QB plan they have had in a decade. Especially since they boggle the Eli Manning replacement plan so poorly.
I think you're giving them too much credit. The last time we saw trial balloons there was no strategic need to mask their intentions. They just didn't know what they wanted to do.
Utterly ridiculous.
Its the most important position in the game and its not close.
If they are not sold on any of the QBs they should trade out for a lot of picks. this team needs a lot of help on O.
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One thing I will give this regime, they use the media to their advantage. Look at the information our beats get. It's straight bullshit. Remember after we traded William and the narrative was there was a l9t of interest in the Giants roster? What happened? Nothing. Same with this situation. We all know they are going all in on this QB class. Now they are trying to downplay all the visits they have to colleges by saying they are still in on Jones. This is an attempt to try to deflect what is really happening as to not kill us with something like a trade up to get said QB. It is also to keep Jones' value from plummeting if we decide to trade him.
I think you're giving them too much credit. The last time we saw trial balloons there was no strategic need to mask their intentions. They just didn't know what they wanted to do.
Maybe but this regime has been tight lipped about everything and what the beats get is straight garbage.
1. The QB room now has a #2 overall pick and Daniel Jones at a $47M cap hit
2. Brian Daboll is probably coaching for his job. In such a scenario he might be more comfortable going with the Blue) devil he knows than the one he doesn't.
3. Cutting Jones after the '24 season results in a $22M cap hit in '25
4. They've only gotten 5 games out of Jones in a $160M contract.
This is not an ideal scenario into which to draft a quarterback. Should they do it? Absolutely.
But how easy is it to see them do the calculus and tell themselves they should use this draft to help Daniel and draft his replacement next year if necessary?
I can't stress enough how bad the decision was to pay Jones.
Well now he has an ACL injury that may permantently hurt that strength. So it would be odd to ignore that and hope for the best. Which is why they likely won't and this report won't mean much.
If Jones stinks and/or the team is going nowhere, he can come in and get some experience later in the year. And if Jones balls out with a competent OL and leads us on a playoff run, that's a good problem to have.
I could see it. Do you know how hard it was for John Mara to outside the organization to finally hire Joe Schoen? He's probably saying to himself, "well, we went outside and we're worse off than ever before."
It would be wrong, but I could see Mara thinking that.
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One thing I will give this regime, they use the media to their advantage. Look at the information our beats get. It's straight bullshit. Remember after we traded William and the narrative was there was a l9t of interest in the Giants roster? What happened? Nothing. Same with this situation. We all know they are going all in on this QB class. Now they are trying to downplay all the visits they have to colleges by saying they are still in on Jones. This is an attempt to try to deflect what is really happening as to not kill us with something like a trade up to get said QB. It is also to keep Jones' value from plummeting if we decide to trade him.
I think you're giving them too much credit. The last time we saw trial balloons there was no strategic need to mask their intentions. They just didn't know what they wanted to do.
"WE WANT MAYE! WE WANT MAYE! WE WANT MAYE!"
The only thing worse than not taking a QB in the 1st round, is taking a bust of a QB in the 1st round.
Didn't need an article to know that. It's ludicrous to think Dabs/Schoen would write off Jones after 4 shitty games under absurd circumstances. It's just as ludicrous to think they're not thinking about replacing him after this unplanned disaster -- including his injuries -- is opening that unexpected door with a top X pick.
The rest of the season will be awful. Shitty football with little to learn, at least until/unless TT is back.
At least the off-season will be interesting.
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i'll get my popcorn
I wouldn’t celebrate too much. Random, unknown “Sources” are lovely and all but we will find out how they feel on draft day. What do you expect them to say right now? “Yeah, he sucks, we are going to move on”.
I will say though, if you and all the other clamoring to roll with Jones once again get your way, Daboll and Schoen will very likely be out of jobs after next season. They’d have to be out of their damned minds to stake their careers to Daniel Jones at this point.
Translation:
"If we win a few more games, we'll be out of the Caleb/Maye sweepstakes and may be stuck with DJ, as we will not nor should not reach for a QB."
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
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Coming out.
On one hand it's a relief that it's not real if the fans don't want it to be. On the other hand, John Mara believes this is a completely normal way to run your NFL franchise.
It's cool that fans basically get to dictate what the Giants do because Mara lives in fear of an uprising.
But then I'm reminded of how fucking dense most football fans are, and the only way to succeed is probably to dare that uprising to occur when necessary.
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In comment 16287848 robbieballs2003 said:
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One thing I will give this regime, they use the media to their advantage. Look at the information our beats get. It's straight bullshit. Remember after we traded William and the narrative was there was a l9t of interest in the Giants roster? What happened? Nothing. Same with this situation. We all know they are going all in on this QB class. Now they are trying to downplay all the visits they have to colleges by saying they are still in on Jones. This is an attempt to try to deflect what is really happening as to not kill us with something like a trade up to get said QB. It is also to keep Jones' value from plummeting if we decide to trade him.
I think you're giving them too much credit. The last time we saw trial balloons there was no strategic need to mask their intentions. They just didn't know what they wanted to do.
What trial balloon are you referring to? Any GM who feels the need to pole the fans before making a decision doesn't belong in the seat to begin with.
The GM isn't conducting the poll. His boss is.
If Schoen and Daboll want to hook their horse to Jones, good luck with that. And we'll see you on the unemployment line.
If Jones plays amazing, Dre Brees him to another team. If Jones stinks, cut him or demote him to QB2 by mid season or following season.
For me its actually the best QB plan they have had in a decade. Especially since they boggle the Eli Manning replacement plan so poorly.
The Giants aren’t sitting a player they took top 2 on the hope that Jones does something he hasn’t done in 5 years
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In comment 16287855 widmerseyebrow said:
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In comment 16287848 robbieballs2003 said:
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One thing I will give this regime, they use the media to their advantage. Look at the information our beats get. It's straight bullshit. Remember after we traded William and the narrative was there was a l9t of interest in the Giants roster? What happened? Nothing. Same with this situation. We all know they are going all in on this QB class. Now they are trying to downplay all the visits they have to colleges by saying they are still in on Jones. This is an attempt to try to deflect what is really happening as to not kill us with something like a trade up to get said QB. It is also to keep Jones' value from plummeting if we decide to trade him.
I think you're giving them too much credit. The last time we saw trial balloons there was no strategic need to mask their intentions. They just didn't know what they wanted to do.
What trial balloon are you referring to? Any GM who feels the need to pole the fans before making a decision doesn't belong in the seat to begin with.
The GM isn't conducting the poll. His boss is.
1. The QB room now has a #2 overall pick and Daniel Jones at a $47M cap hit
2. Brian Daboll is probably coaching for his job. In such a scenario he might be more comfortable going with the Blue) devil he knows than the one he doesn't.
3. Cutting Jones after the '24 season results in a $22M cap hit in '25
4. They've only gotten 5 games out of Jones in a $160M contract.
This is not an ideal scenario into which to draft a quarterback. Should they do it? Absolutely.
But how easy is it to see them do the calculus and tell themselves they should use this draft to help Daniel and draft his replacement next year if necessary?
I can't stress enough how bad the decision was to pay Jones.
It is what is at that this point. It was a bad decision, but they shouldn’t add to a bad decision. The front office has to draft a QB in a strong QB class. If not everyone in the front office needs to be fired.
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i'll get my popcorn
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
as usual you are way out of your depth. I was complimenting Ray for being a savant in what he does in playoff and (unfortunately) draft scenarios . *savant means really good at
the reference is to a movie called rain man. the guys name is ray. check it out. good movie
ha ha- you will be happy if true- you can hate and blame and make statements of what should be.. God forbid they draft a guy you actually say and then he doesn't pan out- of course it will be because of management, ownership etc... Malik Willis ring a bell-first round QB right...
If Schoen and Daboll want to hook their horse to Jones, good luck with that. And we'll see you on the unemployment line.
It bears repeating. Thanks, Eric.
Jones was not the prospect Eli was. Not even close. And I think what Eli did is guiding Mara's thinking. Could Jones run Gilbride's complex offense making anticipation throws? Does anyone think that.
This franchise needs hope. It needs a big time prospect at QB. Jones is not the prospect Williams or Maye are.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
Jones was not the prospect Eli was. Not even close. And I think what Eli did is guiding Mara's thinking. Could Jones run Gilbride's complex offense making anticipation throws? Does anyone think that.
This franchise needs hope. It needs a big time prospect at QB. Jones is not the prospect Williams or Maye are.
Yup... and there are so many issues here... the injuries... the fact that Jones is at his best on the run and coming off those injuries... the amount of pressure on Jones to perform... his history of not delivering the goods... his history of not being able to stay healthy.
It's time. It didn't work. Move on.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
I think that is far from ideal, Eric. The ideal scenario is the Giants have their pick of these QBs, because it is unlikely more than one of them will become elite. More than one may be good or decent, but how often is there more than one elite guy, and if you have the choice, that's the ideal scenario. QB is not a fungible position.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
I would say the ideal scenario is taking the QB of their choosing. The guy who is #1 on their board.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
The ideal scenario is drafting a QB with their top 2 pick and grabbing WR in the top of the second round. Similar to the Bengals in 2020 with Burrow and Tee Higgins. I love Harrison Jr, but we can’t expect for a good QB to fall into the end of the 1st round.
It doesn't make sense.
What if Daniels is the best QB in this draft? Do you trade back?
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In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
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i'll get my popcorn
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
as usual you are way out of your depth. I was complimenting Ray for being a savant in what he does in playoff and (unfortunately) draft scenarios . *savant means really good at
the reference is to a movie called rain man. the guys name is ray. check it out. good movie
Oh I got every element of the reference.
But where I come from it's never considered a sincere compliment to compare someone to a movie character portraying a person with Autism.
There are some places where I'm out of my depth. BBI has yet to be one of those places.
LOL!
Well done sir.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course they're gonna say they still believe in him.
It doesn't make sense.
What if Daniels is the best QB in this draft? Do you trade back?
Yeah, of course. I mean Mahomes was taken after Trubisky. But the point is you expect the guy you take #1/#2 overall to be a better player than someone you take afterwards. Personally speaking, I think Drake Maye and Caleb Williams are in a class of their own. Daniels is a tier below.
Now, if they think Jayden Daniels is QB1, then trade down a bit (but not too far) and get some more assets. But that's obviously risky as you don't want to lose out on a franchise QB.
Additionally, I expect reports to come out that Jones's latest neck injury is fully healed, and he will not have further risk. His previous neck injury looks better than ever. And he ACL recovery is way ahead of schedule.
So, I brace myself for this announcement on Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 8:15pm:
With the 1st pick in the 2024 NFL draft, the New York Football Giants select...
Marvin Harrison, WR, Ohio State.
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In comment 16287870 UberAlias said:
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In comment 16287855 widmerseyebrow said:
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In comment 16287848 robbieballs2003 said:
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One thing I will give this regime, they use the media to their advantage. Look at the information our beats get. It's straight bullshit. Remember after we traded William and the narrative was there was a l9t of interest in the Giants roster? What happened? Nothing. Same with this situation. We all know they are going all in on this QB class. Now they are trying to downplay all the visits they have to colleges by saying they are still in on Jones. This is an attempt to try to deflect what is really happening as to not kill us with something like a trade up to get said QB. It is also to keep Jones' value from plummeting if we decide to trade him.
I think you're giving them too much credit. The last time we saw trial balloons there was no strategic need to mask their intentions. They just didn't know what they wanted to do.
What trial balloon are you referring to? Any GM who feels the need to pole the fans before making a decision doesn't belong in the seat to begin with.
The GM isn't conducting the poll. His boss is.
And we have this info, how?
The Vacchiano tweet itself is the exact same formula this franchise has relied upon for trial balloons under several GMs, HCs, etc. The only people involved who haven't changed during that time are the owners and Pat Hanlon. And the latter would only conduct the trial at the behest of the former.
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Coming out.
Yessir, like clockwork.
As you know, there are a few levels of Giants trial balloons, each representing how serious the organization is about whatever the topic of discussion may be:
- The friendly reporter (historically this has been Gary Myers, but increasingly Ralph has been in this category too, since leaving the beat and NYDN). Lowest level, a notch above mere speculation.
- The in-house shill, almost always Dottino, especially when it involves a "favorite" Giant.
- Carl Banks. He has free reign to publicly criticize the team through official channels, and usually does so in thoughful, justified manner, which adds to his credibility. But make no mistake, he is often echoing the sentiment of the very top of the organization, and at times, I understand, at express direction to do so.
If this climbs up the trial balloon tree, each successive voice will lend more credence to the notion... so, for our sake I hope it ends here.
But if the Giants think they need to float trial balloons at this point, that's a bit alarming in itself.
I'm just speculating on what ifs ... if they have different views on the QB pecking order.
The one thing I know is this... the NFL graveyard is littered with "sure thing" quarterbacks.
It doesn't make sense.
What if Daniels is the best QB in this draft? Do you trade back?
You can only go by your scouting an analysis. Every selection is a lottery ticket, and none of them are 100% guaranteed. But if you have a deep conviction that Daniels is the #1 guy, you have to take him. You don't get cute, and trade back, because if you think he is #1, there is a strong chance somebody else does too, and you are giving them the opportunity to jump you.
Having worked with several athletes that have torn ACLs, and assuming that Jones does proper rehab the issue isn't going to be his legs. He should be as strong as ever. What people should focus on is his neck--that is the career threatening condition. Its not something that can be easily protected and given the complete ineptitude of the organization in fielding a competent OL, the risk that the Giants could lose Jones to another injury to the neck is great.
I don’t understand what rolling with Jones means at this point. Pure gambling. It may take him 12-15 months to recover.
But if the Giants think they need to float trial balloons at this point, that's a bit alarming in itself.
If it truly is a trial balloon, which is likely is, we are gonna need your daughter to dust off the clown pic and attach the nose and wig to Jones and send it out. If it takes the fans from trying to save this franchise from itself again then so be it.
Could see this coming!! Always floating this crap out there
That's right. They have no reason to diminish the asset. They are unlikely to ever tell us what they really feel if the answer is they are done with him. even when he is off the team, they are unlikely to ever admit how they feel. It isn't in the team's interest or individual members of the front office/ coaching staff.
1. The QB room now has a #2 overall pick and Daniel Jones at a $47M cap hit
2. Brian Daboll is probably coaching for his job. In such a scenario he might be more comfortable going with the Blue) devil he knows than the one he doesn't.
3. Cutting Jones after the '24 season results in a $22M cap hit in '25
4. They've only gotten 5 games out of Jones in a $160M contract.
This is not an ideal scenario into which to draft a quarterback. Should they do it? Absolutely.
But how easy is it to see them do the calculus and tell themselves they should use this draft to help Daniel and draft his replacement next year if necessary?
I can't stress enough how bad the decision was to pay Jones.
I’m a Schoen supporter but you are correct. Massive mistake and a failure to balance the pain of extending Barkley v Jones. But the point is to fail fast and move on.
I want them to trade Jones, even if it means giving away a draft pick. I dont want any more of our cap devoted to this failed project.
ARZ publicly said Rosen was their QB
Until he wasn't
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
I like your thinking, sir.
I also think it might be an effort to kind of prevent Jones from getting continuously assailed by the media with questions about his future while he’s literally getting the surgery and followup leading into holidays.
If they stick with Jones then Schoen, Daboll and crew deserve the embarrassment and the firing that comes with it.
If you want to fix this stop trying to use Gettlemans mistakes. Rip off the band aid and bring in your guys. You may fail but stop being half in
Point is its not like they gave out some crazy team friendly deal. The contract was a mistake even pre injury- its time to move on.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
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In comment 16287888 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
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i'll get my popcorn
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
as usual you are way out of your depth. I was complimenting Ray for being a savant in what he does in playoff and (unfortunately) draft scenarios . *savant means really good at
the reference is to a movie called rain man. the guys name is ray. check it out. good movie
Oh I got every element of the reference.
But where I come from it's never considered a sincere compliment to compare someone to a movie character portraying a person with Autism.
There are some places where I'm out of my depth. BBI has yet to be one of those places.
I don't view someone with autism as less then
kinda fucked up that you do.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
That may be what happens. The Eagles will almost assuredly throw their final game if they don't need the win and the Giants need them to win for the first pick.
And consider that Arch Manning will be in the 2026 draft. I wish I were kidding.
Just another example of trying to stir up the fans...
Anybody believing Schoen has been merely scouting OL and LBs at those games he is attending is an idiot. The GM doesn't go to games involving all the top QBs expected in the draft unless he is scouting them.
Point is its not like they gave out some crazy team friendly deal. The contract was a mistake even pre injury- its time to move on.
Eh. It's a $22m hit, which is material, but will constitute about 8% of the projected 2025 cap and would just barely cracks the top 5 in dead cap hits for this season.
By way of comparison, Rodgers is accounting for 18% of GB's cap this season, at a $40m hit. Clearly, that has hamstrung the team, so it's not a good place to be, but we won't nearly be in that territory when the time comes, plus we would have a QB on a rookie contract.
Schoen structured that contract deliberately to save face in a worst-case scenario, and that appears to be what we are looking at in 2023 and beyond.
It is sad that smokescreens are needed...
I said “no, he’s out for the season”
Her response was “Isn’t he always hurt”
My answer was “Last year was really the only season he played most of the games”
Before walking out she says “so he’s like an employee that you can’t get to show up for work???”
If my wife could put together that Jones isn’t reliable at this point in time, I hope to god the Giants organization realizes it. And for the record, I’m more concerned about him having another injury than I am him playing poor when in the games.
This crappy roster is its own smokescreen.
The only position not in play in Rd 1 is maybe Center.
A top 15 QB in a league of 14 playoff teams. I like your thinking.
if Taylor starts, then the DJ possibility is a strong one.
I usually push for o line in the draft, especially given our crap line but if Harrison is there I am taking him because he is a sure thing and he instantly makes our offense better.
If you can trade up for one of the lesser quarterbacks if not than pick two o linemen in the second round. Running back in the third. And then Tight end in round 4/5.
You cannot put a rookie qb to start on this offense. He would be doomed to failure. You have to get the other 10 positions solidified before you put a new QB on this offense.
But that said, I think it's quite obvious how fond Mara is for Jones. To which I ask again-for the 110100050550th time-WHY? Is it because he's a polite, hard working kid from all accounts? Because he looks like Eli? Because he's the sort of chap he'd want his daughter to bring home? For the life of me, I'll NEVER get it. Daniel Jones has won practically jack shit here. Isn't the whole premise to, ya know, win? & if it isn't, sell your stake of the ownership John.
Mara' infatuation with Jones is so head scratching to me...
History shows the top QBs in the draft don't always pan out. It is a gamble.
What is the discount (in terms of draft slots) you give a college QB whom Schoen and Daboll think they can mold into a starter they can get a few slots later as compared to one of the top 3?
Then draft a gifted WR with their #1 (and trade down if possible) and then trade back up for your sure developmental QB?
Yes I still believe in the Easter Bunny.
The draft is a total crapshoot.
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In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
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i'll get my popcorn
I wouldn’t celebrate too much. Random, unknown “Sources” are lovely and all but we will find out how they feel on draft day. What do you expect them to say right now? “Yeah, he sucks, we are going to move on”.
I will say though, if you and all the other clamoring to roll with Jones once again get your way, Daboll and Schoen will very likely be out of jobs after next season. They’d have to be out of their damned minds to stake their careers to Daniel Jones at this point.
I'm not clamoring for anyone. I'm here for the drama. Hysterical cunts melting down.... entertain me!
With that post, you're going to get all of the jock sniffers' panties in a bunch. And, yeah, I'm here for the drama and entertainment, too.
I'm all for drafting a QB but they better make sure he has a thick skin, most of all.
It doesn't make sense.
What if Daniels is the best QB in this draft? Do you trade back?
The last 10 drafts
2013 draft (Best 2nd QB Geno Smith)
#16 EJ Manuel
#39 Geno Smith
#98 Matt Barkley
#110 Ryan Nassib
#112 Tyler Wilson
2014 draft (Best 4th Derek Carr)
#3 Blake Bortles
#22 Johnny Manziel
#32 Teddy Bridgewater
#36 Derek Carr
#62 Jimmy Garoppolo
2015 draft (Best 1st Winston)
#1 Jameis Winston
#2 Marcus Mariota
#75 Garrett Grayson
#89 Sean Mannion
#103 Bryce Petty
2016 draft (Best 1st Jared Goff)
#1 Jared Goff
#2 Carson Wentz
#26 Paxton Lynch
#51 Christian Hackenberg
#91 Jacoby Brissett
2017 draft (Best 2nd Mahomes)
#2 Mitchell Trubisky
#10 Patrick Mahomes
#12 Desaun Watson
#52 Deshone Kizer
#87 Davis Webb
2018 draft (best 3rd Josh Allen and 5th Lamar Jackson)
#1 Baker Mayfield
#3 Sam Darnold
#7 Josh Allen
#10 Josh Rosen
#32 Lamar Jackson
2019 draft (Best 1st Kyler Murray)
#1 Kyler Murray
#6 Daniel Jones
#15 Dwayne Haskins
#42 Drew Lock
#100 Will Grier
2020 draft (best QB 1st Burrow, 3rd Herbert, and 5th Hurts)
#1 Joe Burrow
#5 Tua Tagovailoa
#6 Justin Herbert
#26 Jordan Love
#53 Jalen Hurts
2021 draft (best 1st Lawerence)
#1 Trevor Lawerence
#2 Zach Wilson
#3 Trey Lance
#11 Justin Fields
#15 Mac Jones
2022 draft (so far 1st Pickett)
#20 Kenny Pickett
#74 Desmond Ridder
#86 Malik Willis
#137 Bailey Zappe
#144 Sam Howell
2023 draft (so far 2nd CJ Stroud)
#1 Bryce Young
#2 CJ Stroud
#4 Anthony Richardson
#33 Will Levis
#68 Hendon Hooker
Jones's injuries moot any discussion about his play. He's had a concussion, two serious neck injuries, and now an ACL that will likely keep him out of action until sometime next season.
His contract is a disastrous albatross that will hamstring the Giants through the 2025 season. (The $22M cap hit for cutting him at that time would be the largest in Giants history IIRC.) Big swing and a miss by Schoen.
All of the guarantees are paid in the first two years, which is the most important factor.
How they choose to spread the accounting for those guarantees is way less important.
What Schoen was able to avoid is year three guarantees at signing, or practical guarantees on year three that conveyed after year one.
A good example of that was Prescott's contract. Before 2022 began, his 2023 salary became guaranteed.
Imagine if Jones's full 2025 salary conveyed to guaranteed before next year. Most big time quarterback contracts have some flavor of that.
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i'll get my popcorn
I wouldn’t celebrate too much. Random, unknown “Sources” are lovely and all but we will find out how they feel on draft day. What do you expect them to say right now? “Yeah, he sucks, we are going to move on”.
I will say though, if you and all the other clamoring to roll with Jones once again get your way, Daboll and Schoen will very likely be out of jobs after next season. They’d have to be out of their damned minds to stake their careers to Daniel Jones at this point.
How could they be out of a job sticking with DJ when many on this board believe it Mara pulling the strings for DJ?
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In comment 16287904 dancing blue bear said:
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In comment 16287888 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
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i'll get my popcorn
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
as usual you are way out of your depth. I was complimenting Ray for being a savant in what he does in playoff and (unfortunately) draft scenarios . *savant means really good at
the reference is to a movie called rain man. the guys name is ray. check it out. good movie
Oh I got every element of the reference.
But where I come from it's never considered a sincere compliment to compare someone to a movie character portraying a person with Autism.
There are some places where I'm out of my depth. BBI has yet to be one of those places.
I don't view someone with autism as less then
kinda fucked up that you do.
I never said "less than" or even suggested as much. But I've never seen it be a compliment paid to a neurotypical individual.
This is a wonderful attempt to walk back your original dickhead comment. And for the avoidance of doubt, that's not meant as a compliment.
With so much talk of tanking, and so much of the home schedule remaining, could this be a little floater from ownership to the season ticket holder or potential paying customer to say please still come out or the 4 games remaining, don’t be so sure we’re tanking for a QB?
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Can posters stop calling it a 2 year contract. That cap hit in year 3 is not insignificant, especially for a team with massive holes all over the roster.
All of the guarantees are paid in the first two years, which is the most important factor.
How they choose to spread the accounting for those guarantees is way less important.
What Schoen was able to avoid is year three guarantees at signing, or practical guarantees on year three that conveyed after year one.
A good example of that was Prescott's contract. Before 2022 began, his 2023 salary became guaranteed.
Imagine if Jones's full 2025 salary conveyed to guaranteed before next year. Most big time quarterback contracts have some flavor of that.
I'm not someone who worries that much about the cap, but some people do, and as a practical matter there are cap implications to consider. It's all well and good that Schoen didn't guarantee a third year, but the deal we do have, will strike a lot of pain in '24 and probably a bit in '25.
I don't see any discussion here of what happens cap-wise.
My understanding is the Giants can eat all the contract next year before June 1 at a $69M dead cap hit.
Or they can cut him after June 1 and spread (I think) 2/3 of the signing bonus into '25. So it would be dead cap hit of about $51M in '2024 and $18M in 2025. This is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Or they can just keep him on the roster for '24 @ $47M and incur the dead cap of $22M in 2025.
No matter how you slice it, these are pretty big numbers in '24 and '25, and people are going to upset that we are blocking out this much cap space for a guy holding a clipboard or who is off the team.
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a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
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In comment 16287971 Eric from BBI said:
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a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
Who the fuck are you? Did you just crawl,out of a hole? Whoever you are you seem like a real treasure. And by treasure, I mean a complete idiot
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
That's what I'd like to see.
With so much talk of tanking, and so much of the home schedule remaining, could this be a little floater from ownership to the season ticket holder or potential paying customer to say please still come out or the 4 games remaining, don’t be so sure we’re tanking for a QB?
Self interest always plays a part in everything they do. Maybe we'll get a large pepsi this time.
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In comment 16287971 Eric from BBI said:
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a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
That's not really "cancel culture" as much as it is making sure that, to whatever extent the team may be attempting to measure fan sentiment, they do not receive misleading feedback from a vocal minority while a quiet majority takes the organization's ability to think rationally for granted.
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In comment 16287978 TyreeHelmet said:
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Can posters stop calling it a 2 year contract. That cap hit in year 3 is not insignificant, especially for a team with massive holes all over the roster.
All of the guarantees are paid in the first two years, which is the most important factor.
How they choose to spread the accounting for those guarantees is way less important.
What Schoen was able to avoid is year three guarantees at signing, or practical guarantees on year three that conveyed after year one.
A good example of that was Prescott's contract. Before 2022 began, his 2023 salary became guaranteed.
Imagine if Jones's full 2025 salary conveyed to guaranteed before next year. Most big time quarterback contracts have some flavor of that.
I'm not someone who worries that much about the cap, but some people do, and as a practical matter there are cap implications to consider. It's all well and good that Schoen didn't guarantee a third year, but the deal we do have, will strike a lot of pain in '24 and probably a bit in '25.
I don't see any discussion here of what happens cap-wise.
My understanding is the Giants can eat all the contract next year before June 1 at a $69M dead cap hit.
Or they can cut him after June 1 and spread (I think) 2/3 of the signing bonus into '25. So it would be dead cap hit of about $51M in '2024 and $18M in 2025. This is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Or they can just keep him on the roster for '24 @ $47M and incur the dead cap of $22M in 2025.
No matter how you slice it, these are pretty big numbers in '24 and '25, and people are going to upset that we are blocking out this much cap space for a guy holding a clipboard or who is off the team.
Exactly...I'm just sick of fans describing this as a 2 year contract with an "out". That contract and that out will cost them. And while fans may think the Giants roster will be in a better place come 2025, I have my doubts and they will need every dollar possible to rebuild this.
The contract was a mistake and a miss by Schoen and it was completely unnecessary. The Giants had all the leverage and quite honestly might have been able to find a better option in free agency for a fraction of the cost. And this contract is going to hurt this team badly for the next 2 seasons.
He should have been tagged. This offseason would feel much differently if he was coming off the books. Fans need to stop pretending it wasn't a massive miscalculation by this regime.
My understanding is the Giants can eat all the contract next year before June 1 at a $69M dead cap hit.
Or they can cut him after June 1 and spread (I think) 2/3 of the signing bonus into '25. So it would be dead cap hit of about $51M in '2024 and $18M in 2025. This is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Or they can just keep him on the roster for '24 @ $47M and incur the dead cap of $22M in 2025.
You can confirm that at Jones' Over the Cap page.
When the deal was signed, the split would have been $51M/$18M, again in both scenarios, but the restructure moved $4M to 2025.
And I believe there's a good chance there will be another restructure that moves the numbers, because Giants aren't going to want to take that $47M hit in 2024, in any scenario.
The pre-June 1/post-June 1 split is $47M/$22M, same as if they keep him for all of 2024, then cut.
You can confirm that at Jones' Over the Cap page.
When the deal was signed, the split would have been $51M/$18M, again in both scenarios, but the restructure moved $4M to 2025.
And I believe there's a good chance there will be another restructure that moves the numbers, because Giants aren't going to want to take that $47M hit in 2024, in any scenario.
For clarity, the 2024 post-June 1 cut split is $47M/$22M. The pre-June 1 number is $69M, in theory, as you say, but not practical, both because of cap management and Jones' likely injury status.
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In comment 16287980 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16287971 Eric from BBI said:
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a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
Who the fuck are you? Did you just crawl,out of a hole? Whoever you are you seem like a real treasure. And by treasure, I mean a complete idiot
I didn’t need you to reinforce my point. But thanks anyway.
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I don’t buy this for a second. Look at Schoen’s travel schedule. But if it is true, Mara influenced…in which case we’re fucked.
I could see it. Do you know how hard it was for John Mara to outside the organization to finally hire Joe Schoen? He's probably saying to himself, "well, we went outside and we're worse off than ever before."
It would be wrong, but I could see Mara thinking that.
I have know idea how hard it was for him, but evidently I don’t know him as well as you do
I don't think they're even close to being that dumb though.
Nothing is ever a sure thing but if you could pick a year to have a top 3 this would be the year to do it. I would take any of the 3 QB's over any QB drafted in the last 15 years besides Trevor Lawrence, Joe Burrow, Andrew Luck and Cam Newton coming out of college without even thinking about it.
If Jones plays amazing, Dre Brees him to another team. If Jones stinks, cut him or demote him to QB2 by mid season or following season.
For me its actually the best QB plan they have had in a decade. Especially since they boggle the Eli Manning replacement plan so poorly.
Yes. Just because they say it’s premature to give up on Jones (which is right bc it is harmless to bring him back next year given consequences if cutting him next year), that does not mean they are committing to him as next year’s starter (or even 2025 starter).
I doubt there will ever be 2 Star Athletes with the same Name in seperate sports, so since the Cam Ward i know of, has won a Stanley Cup, i doubt the College Football Cam Ward would have to be a bust.
I 100% maybe agree.
There's literally no downside. It doesn't mean they aren't going to draft a QB.
There's literally no downside. It doesn't mean they aren't going to draft a QB.
Raising the blood pressure of their fans isn't costless, this country's medical costs are already absurdly high.
From this season? I am not sure that is even possible. If they lost every game by 50 points it would still only be sort of parallel.
From this season? I am not sure that is even possible. If they lost every game by 50 points it would still only be sort of parallel.
Last year, Mills had 17 TDs (3.5% rate) 6.5 Y/A, and 207.9 Y/G. This year, Stroud has 15 TDs (4.7% rate), 8.3 Y/A, and 291.8 Y/G.
Daniel Jones had 15 TDs last year (3.2%), 6.8 Y/A, and 200.3 Y/G. Mills and Jones had very similar passing production (to be clear, Jones was better due to turnovers and his legs)--my point is that a good passing offense is within our sights if we get the QB right. Maybe Hyatt can be the Dell equivalent, add a linemen or two, and we may be okay as soon as 2024.
It's a big number but it's manageable. No need to Chicken Little it. It's a figure we'll gladly swallow if we have a quarterback on the roster, in year 2 of his rookie deal, that we feel good about for the future.
It is absolutely a 2 year contract with an out, albeit a costly one, after year 2. But not prohibitively so, and a competent FO can still operate effectively while budgeting for it in advance.
It's a big number but it's manageable. No need to Chicken Little it. It's a figure we'll gladly swallow if we have a quarterback on the roster, in year 2 of his rookie deal, that we feel good about for the future.
It is absolutely a 2 year contract with an out, albeit a costly one, after year 2. But not prohibitively so, and a competent FO can still operate effectively while budgeting for it in advance.
*absolutely a 4 year contract with an out*
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is the suggestion that teams with rookie QBs typically take a step backwards.
From this season? I am not sure that is even possible. If they lost every game by 50 points it would still only be sort of parallel.
Last year, Mills had 17 TDs (3.5% rate) 6.5 Y/A, and 207.9 Y/G. This year, Stroud has 15 TDs (4.7% rate), 8.3 Y/A, and 291.8 Y/G.
Daniel Jones had 15 TDs last year (3.2%), 6.8 Y/A, and 200.3 Y/G. Mills and Jones had very similar passing production (to be clear, Jones was better due to turnovers and his legs)--my point is that a good passing offense is within our sights if we get the QB right. Maybe Hyatt can be the Dell equivalent, add a linemen or two, and we may be okay as soon as 2024.
Agree completely. Replacing Jones isn't the same thing as replacing Eli. Jones has never provided much in the passing game. Even if the new QB is middling we will get what we got our of Jones at a much cheaper price.
OMG. Bob doing what he does best. He was hired by Mara Tech in his 20s. Kid out of Fordham and all that jazz, so he made sense for them. I remember listening to him back in '88 on WNEW for Giants Pre and Postgame shows and on the Giants' Weekly Radio Show that my brother and I used to prank call, lol.
Point is this: This is expected. Papa is their paid mouthpiece and it really grinds his gears that we know that the Maras are disingenuous idgits. He's doing their dirty work for them. Gott protect that table spread befo' Thanksgiving, eh?!
From this season? I am not sure that is even possible. If they lost every game by 50 points it would still only be sort of parallel.
Look at the difference between this year and last year for the Texans. Night and Day, literally. Great young coach and superb young QB.
Have to ve careful on BBI with rational posts about Jones and the Giants QB situation.
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I did not bother reading all this. But bottom line is Jones is and asset and a serviceable QB when healthy. He has value and the Giants are going to do everything they can to maintain the value of an important asset.
Have to be careful on BBI with rational posts about Jones and the Giants QB situation.
He has little value with that contract. No team is trading for Jones and assuming his contract.
If the Giants care about efficient asset valuation they sure have a funny way of showing it, after committing one of the most egregious unforced errors in NFL history with the Jones contract. They basically negotiated against themselves and were rewarded with a precipitous asset deflation after just a few games of abysmal QB play. What do you think Jones would have netted on the open market, even before re-injuring his neck? My guess is no more than a third, $10-$15M/yr. At this point, they can scarcely do much more damage to the asset value. NFL teams aren't stupid. They will see the Giants draft a QB and relegate Jones to the status of most expensive backup QB in the history of the game. They're never going to pay much to acquire him. The asset destruction has already happened. Sure, it is in their nominal interest to make warm, fuzzy, positive statements about Jones but they will never ever get anywhere close to the value committed in return for him.
Sounds much more like a liability to me.
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I did not bother reading all this. But bottom line is Jones is and asset and a serviceable QB when healthy. He has value and the Giants are going to do everything they can to maintain the value of an important asset.
Have to ve careful on BBI with rational posts about Jones and the Giants QB situation.
It's very odd. They fight to silence dissent on the Jones question as though their livelihoods depended on it.
It's been said before but if Jones played for a different team BBI would have a field day trashing him. Put him in a Washington uniform and you'd be teeing off.
Sounds much more like a liability to me.
In the strictest sense he's absolutely a liability.
If you took the remaining years and money on his contract, including all of the specific ins and outs of guarantees and etc...
that contract is greater than what he could command on the open market at this moment. In my opinion, significantly greater.
The asset has financing terms attached to it, and currently it's underwater. There is no equity in it.
The equation could change over time. (I don't believe it will, and I don't believe DJ will get much of an opportunity to make it change given the injury and staring down the barrel of a Top 3 pick in a good QB class).
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for a QB that has been such a disappointment for so long
It's been said before but if Jones played for a different team BBI would have a field day trashing him. Put him in a Washington uniform and you'd be teeing off.
If he played in the division, they would trash him.
If he played in the NFC South, they wouldn't even know his fucking name.
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In comment 16290887 AnnapolisMike said:
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I did not bother reading all this. But bottom line is Jones is and asset and a serviceable QB when healthy. He has value and the Giants are going to do everything they can to maintain the value of an important asset.
Have to ve careful on BBI with rational posts about Jones and the Giants QB situation.
It's very odd. They fight to silence dissent on the Jones question as though their livelihoods depended on it.
And you defend him as if your livelihood depended on it. You’re literally on EVERY thread twisting yourself into a pretzel defending him. Your self awareness absolutely sucks. Almost as much as your QB evaluation skills