Contact Info
Administration
Coaching Staff
Coaching History
Annual Records
Hall Of Fame
Retired Jerseys
Ring Of Honor
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| But they are a long way away from any final decision, and the source acknowledged it might be premature for them to completely give up on Jones after watching him in just six starts this season — including three without running back Saquon Barkley, four without left tackle Andrew Thomas, and behind a disastrous offensive line that got him sacked a ridiculous 30 times. |
ARZ publicly said Rosen was their QB
Until he wasn't
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
I like your thinking, sir.
I also think it might be an effort to kind of prevent Jones from getting continuously assailed by the media with questions about his future while he’s literally getting the surgery and followup leading into holidays.
If they stick with Jones then Schoen, Daboll and crew deserve the embarrassment and the firing that comes with it.
If you want to fix this stop trying to use Gettlemans mistakes. Rip off the band aid and bring in your guys. You may fail but stop being half in
Point is its not like they gave out some crazy team friendly deal. The contract was a mistake even pre injury- its time to move on.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
Quote:
In comment 16287888 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
i'll get my popcorn
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
as usual you are way out of your depth. I was complimenting Ray for being a savant in what he does in playoff and (unfortunately) draft scenarios . *savant means really good at
the reference is to a movie called rain man. the guys name is ray. check it out. good movie
Oh I got every element of the reference.
But where I come from it's never considered a sincere compliment to compare someone to a movie character portraying a person with Autism.
There are some places where I'm out of my depth. BBI has yet to be one of those places.
I don't view someone with autism as less then
kinda fucked up that you do.
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
That may be what happens. The Eagles will almost assuredly throw their final game if they don't need the win and the Giants need them to win for the first pick.
And consider that Arch Manning will be in the 2026 draft. I wish I were kidding.
Just another example of trying to stir up the fans...
Anybody believing Schoen has been merely scouting OL and LBs at those games he is attending is an idiot. The GM doesn't go to games involving all the top QBs expected in the draft unless he is scouting them.
Point is its not like they gave out some crazy team friendly deal. The contract was a mistake even pre injury- its time to move on.
Eh. It's a $22m hit, which is material, but will constitute about 8% of the projected 2025 cap and would just barely cracks the top 5 in dead cap hits for this season.
By way of comparison, Rodgers is accounting for 18% of GB's cap this season, at a $40m hit. Clearly, that has hamstrung the team, so it's not a good place to be, but we won't nearly be in that territory when the time comes, plus we would have a QB on a rookie contract.
Schoen structured that contract deliberately to save face in a worst-case scenario, and that appears to be what we are looking at in 2023 and beyond.
It is sad that smokescreens are needed...
I said “no, he’s out for the season”
Her response was “Isn’t he always hurt”
My answer was “Last year was really the only season he played most of the games”
Before walking out she says “so he’s like an employee that you can’t get to show up for work???”
If my wife could put together that Jones isn’t reliable at this point in time, I hope to god the Giants organization realizes it. And for the record, I’m more concerned about him having another injury than I am him playing poor when in the games.
This crappy roster is its own smokescreen.
The only position not in play in Rd 1 is maybe Center.
A top 15 QB in a league of 14 playoff teams. I like your thinking.
if Taylor starts, then the DJ possibility is a strong one.
I usually push for o line in the draft, especially given our crap line but if Harrison is there I am taking him because he is a sure thing and he instantly makes our offense better.
If you can trade up for one of the lesser quarterbacks if not than pick two o linemen in the second round. Running back in the third. And then Tight end in round 4/5.
You cannot put a rookie qb to start on this offense. He would be doomed to failure. You have to get the other 10 positions solidified before you put a new QB on this offense.
But that said, I think it's quite obvious how fond Mara is for Jones. To which I ask again-for the 110100050550th time-WHY? Is it because he's a polite, hard working kid from all accounts? Because he looks like Eli? Because he's the sort of chap he'd want his daughter to bring home? For the life of me, I'll NEVER get it. Daniel Jones has won practically jack shit here. Isn't the whole premise to, ya know, win? & if it isn't, sell your stake of the ownership John.
Mara' infatuation with Jones is so head scratching to me...
History shows the top QBs in the draft don't always pan out. It is a gamble.
What is the discount (in terms of draft slots) you give a college QB whom Schoen and Daboll think they can mold into a starter they can get a few slots later as compared to one of the top 3?
Then draft a gifted WR with their #1 (and trade down if possible) and then trade back up for your sure developmental QB?
Yes I still believe in the Easter Bunny.
The draft is a total crapshoot.
Quote:
In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
i'll get my popcorn
I wouldn’t celebrate too much. Random, unknown “Sources” are lovely and all but we will find out how they feel on draft day. What do you expect them to say right now? “Yeah, he sucks, we are going to move on”.
I will say though, if you and all the other clamoring to roll with Jones once again get your way, Daboll and Schoen will very likely be out of jobs after next season. They’d have to be out of their damned minds to stake their careers to Daniel Jones at this point.
I'm not clamoring for anyone. I'm here for the drama. Hysterical cunts melting down.... entertain me!
With that post, you're going to get all of the jock sniffers' panties in a bunch. And, yeah, I'm here for the drama and entertainment, too.
I'm all for drafting a QB but they better make sure he has a thick skin, most of all.
It doesn't make sense.
What if Daniels is the best QB in this draft? Do you trade back?
The last 10 drafts
2013 draft (Best 2nd QB Geno Smith)
#16 EJ Manuel
#39 Geno Smith
#98 Matt Barkley
#110 Ryan Nassib
#112 Tyler Wilson
2014 draft (Best 4th Derek Carr)
#3 Blake Bortles
#22 Johnny Manziel
#32 Teddy Bridgewater
#36 Derek Carr
#62 Jimmy Garoppolo
2015 draft (Best 1st Winston)
#1 Jameis Winston
#2 Marcus Mariota
#75 Garrett Grayson
#89 Sean Mannion
#103 Bryce Petty
2016 draft (Best 1st Jared Goff)
#1 Jared Goff
#2 Carson Wentz
#26 Paxton Lynch
#51 Christian Hackenberg
#91 Jacoby Brissett
2017 draft (Best 2nd Mahomes)
#2 Mitchell Trubisky
#10 Patrick Mahomes
#12 Desaun Watson
#52 Deshone Kizer
#87 Davis Webb
2018 draft (best 3rd Josh Allen and 5th Lamar Jackson)
#1 Baker Mayfield
#3 Sam Darnold
#7 Josh Allen
#10 Josh Rosen
#32 Lamar Jackson
2019 draft (Best 1st Kyler Murray)
#1 Kyler Murray
#6 Daniel Jones
#15 Dwayne Haskins
#42 Drew Lock
#100 Will Grier
2020 draft (best QB 1st Burrow, 3rd Herbert, and 5th Hurts)
#1 Joe Burrow
#5 Tua Tagovailoa
#6 Justin Herbert
#26 Jordan Love
#53 Jalen Hurts
2021 draft (best 1st Lawerence)
#1 Trevor Lawerence
#2 Zach Wilson
#3 Trey Lance
#11 Justin Fields
#15 Mac Jones
2022 draft (so far 1st Pickett)
#20 Kenny Pickett
#74 Desmond Ridder
#86 Malik Willis
#137 Bailey Zappe
#144 Sam Howell
2023 draft (so far 2nd CJ Stroud)
#1 Bryce Young
#2 CJ Stroud
#4 Anthony Richardson
#33 Will Levis
#68 Hendon Hooker
Jones's injuries moot any discussion about his play. He's had a concussion, two serious neck injuries, and now an ACL that will likely keep him out of action until sometime next season.
His contract is a disastrous albatross that will hamstring the Giants through the 2025 season. (The $22M cap hit for cutting him at that time would be the largest in Giants history IIRC.) Big swing and a miss by Schoen.
All of the guarantees are paid in the first two years, which is the most important factor.
How they choose to spread the accounting for those guarantees is way less important.
What Schoen was able to avoid is year three guarantees at signing, or practical guarantees on year three that conveyed after year one.
A good example of that was Prescott's contract. Before 2022 began, his 2023 salary became guaranteed.
Imagine if Jones's full 2025 salary conveyed to guaranteed before next year. Most big time quarterback contracts have some flavor of that.
Quote:
i'll get my popcorn
I wouldn’t celebrate too much. Random, unknown “Sources” are lovely and all but we will find out how they feel on draft day. What do you expect them to say right now? “Yeah, he sucks, we are going to move on”.
I will say though, if you and all the other clamoring to roll with Jones once again get your way, Daboll and Schoen will very likely be out of jobs after next season. They’d have to be out of their damned minds to stake their careers to Daniel Jones at this point.
How could they be out of a job sticking with DJ when many on this board believe it Mara pulling the strings for DJ?
Quote:
In comment 16287904 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
In comment 16287888 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16287815 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
i'll get my popcorn
Back so soon after your comment on Ray's thread this morning?
as usual you are way out of your depth. I was complimenting Ray for being a savant in what he does in playoff and (unfortunately) draft scenarios . *savant means really good at
the reference is to a movie called rain man. the guys name is ray. check it out. good movie
Oh I got every element of the reference.
But where I come from it's never considered a sincere compliment to compare someone to a movie character portraying a person with Autism.
There are some places where I'm out of my depth. BBI has yet to be one of those places.
I don't view someone with autism as less then
kinda fucked up that you do.
I never said "less than" or even suggested as much. But I've never seen it be a compliment paid to a neurotypical individual.
This is a wonderful attempt to walk back your original dickhead comment. And for the avoidance of doubt, that's not meant as a compliment.
With so much talk of tanking, and so much of the home schedule remaining, could this be a little floater from ownership to the season ticket holder or potential paying customer to say please still come out or the 4 games remaining, don’t be so sure we’re tanking for a QB?
Quote:
Can posters stop calling it a 2 year contract. That cap hit in year 3 is not insignificant, especially for a team with massive holes all over the roster.
All of the guarantees are paid in the first two years, which is the most important factor.
How they choose to spread the accounting for those guarantees is way less important.
What Schoen was able to avoid is year three guarantees at signing, or practical guarantees on year three that conveyed after year one.
A good example of that was Prescott's contract. Before 2022 began, his 2023 salary became guaranteed.
Imagine if Jones's full 2025 salary conveyed to guaranteed before next year. Most big time quarterback contracts have some flavor of that.
I'm not someone who worries that much about the cap, but some people do, and as a practical matter there are cap implications to consider. It's all well and good that Schoen didn't guarantee a third year, but the deal we do have, will strike a lot of pain in '24 and probably a bit in '25.
I don't see any discussion here of what happens cap-wise.
My understanding is the Giants can eat all the contract next year before June 1 at a $69M dead cap hit.
Or they can cut him after June 1 and spread (I think) 2/3 of the signing bonus into '25. So it would be dead cap hit of about $51M in '2024 and $18M in 2025. This is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Or they can just keep him on the roster for '24 @ $47M and incur the dead cap of $22M in 2025.
No matter how you slice it, these are pretty big numbers in '24 and '25, and people are going to upset that we are blocking out this much cap space for a guy holding a clipboard or who is off the team.
Quote:
a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
Quote:
In comment 16287971 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
Who the fuck are you? Did you just crawl,out of a hole? Whoever you are you seem like a real treasure. And by treasure, I mean a complete idiot
Most realistic scenario is they simply take the best QB on their board with their first pick.
That's what I'd like to see.
With so much talk of tanking, and so much of the home schedule remaining, could this be a little floater from ownership to the season ticket holder or potential paying customer to say please still come out or the 4 games remaining, don’t be so sure we’re tanking for a QB?
Self interest always plays a part in everything they do. Maybe we'll get a large pepsi this time.
Quote:
In comment 16287971 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
a clown outfit on Daniel Jones seems like piling on at this point.
Oh I agree. It’s definitely over the top and he doesn’t deserve it. He’s a nice guy and has been a good soldier. But we must drown out the very loud minority that want to run it back once again with Jones. If Mara is hearing their voices, we are doomed.
Btw, I was joking anyways. I think?
We must "drown out the minority". What is this? Cancel culture? Pathetic attitude. I don't care what Jones is or isn't. Your mentality is the real problem not only on this board but everywhere.
That's not really "cancel culture" as much as it is making sure that, to whatever extent the team may be attempting to measure fan sentiment, they do not receive misleading feedback from a vocal minority while a quiet majority takes the organization's ability to think rationally for granted.
Quote:
In comment 16287978 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Can posters stop calling it a 2 year contract. That cap hit in year 3 is not insignificant, especially for a team with massive holes all over the roster.
All of the guarantees are paid in the first two years, which is the most important factor.
How they choose to spread the accounting for those guarantees is way less important.
What Schoen was able to avoid is year three guarantees at signing, or practical guarantees on year three that conveyed after year one.
A good example of that was Prescott's contract. Before 2022 began, his 2023 salary became guaranteed.
Imagine if Jones's full 2025 salary conveyed to guaranteed before next year. Most big time quarterback contracts have some flavor of that.
I'm not someone who worries that much about the cap, but some people do, and as a practical matter there are cap implications to consider. It's all well and good that Schoen didn't guarantee a third year, but the deal we do have, will strike a lot of pain in '24 and probably a bit in '25.
I don't see any discussion here of what happens cap-wise.
My understanding is the Giants can eat all the contract next year before June 1 at a $69M dead cap hit.
Or they can cut him after June 1 and spread (I think) 2/3 of the signing bonus into '25. So it would be dead cap hit of about $51M in '2024 and $18M in 2025. This is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Or they can just keep him on the roster for '24 @ $47M and incur the dead cap of $22M in 2025.
No matter how you slice it, these are pretty big numbers in '24 and '25, and people are going to upset that we are blocking out this much cap space for a guy holding a clipboard or who is off the team.
Exactly...I'm just sick of fans describing this as a 2 year contract with an "out". That contract and that out will cost them. And while fans may think the Giants roster will be in a better place come 2025, I have my doubts and they will need every dollar possible to rebuild this.
The contract was a mistake and a miss by Schoen and it was completely unnecessary. The Giants had all the leverage and quite honestly might have been able to find a better option in free agency for a fraction of the cost. And this contract is going to hurt this team badly for the next 2 seasons.
He should have been tagged. This offseason would feel much differently if he was coming off the books. Fans need to stop pretending it wasn't a massive miscalculation by this regime.
My understanding is the Giants can eat all the contract next year before June 1 at a $69M dead cap hit.
Or they can cut him after June 1 and spread (I think) 2/3 of the signing bonus into '25. So it would be dead cap hit of about $51M in '2024 and $18M in 2025. This is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Or they can just keep him on the roster for '24 @ $47M and incur the dead cap of $22M in 2025.
You can confirm that at Jones' Over the Cap page.
When the deal was signed, the split would have been $51M/$18M, again in both scenarios, but the restructure moved $4M to 2025.
And I believe there's a good chance there will be another restructure that moves the numbers, because Giants aren't going to want to take that $47M hit in 2024, in any scenario.
The pre-June 1/post-June 1 split is $47M/$22M, same as if they keep him for all of 2024, then cut.
You can confirm that at Jones' Over the Cap page.
When the deal was signed, the split would have been $51M/$18M, again in both scenarios, but the restructure moved $4M to 2025.
And I believe there's a good chance there will be another restructure that moves the numbers, because Giants aren't going to want to take that $47M hit in 2024, in any scenario.
For clarity, the 2024 post-June 1 cut split is $47M/$22M. The pre-June 1 number is $69M, in theory, as you say, but not practical, both because of cap management and Jones' likely injury status.