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This Play Sums Up This Disastrous Giants Season

nyjuggernaut2 : 11/14/2023 10:34 am
Check out Markus McKethan (#60). How is this even possible for a professional football player to look that lost and inept? I feel like I'm watching old film of my son's pop warner team when a backup OL who never plays would come in for the last series of the game.


Link - ( New Window )
Bobby Johnson  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 11/14/2023 10:44 am : link
Taught him how to block Barkley on that particular play.
The Washington Generals  
mittenedman : 11/14/2023 10:44 am : link
This is what I mean by watching this team - you want to say guys like Daboll are safe and continuity is important - but then you see this unbelievable stuff.

Just as bad as that play where Neal was blocking Waller from behind.

Who is coaching this OLine?
That was actually a well executed play (other than #60)  
mittenedman : 11/14/2023 10:46 am : link
that could've scored a TD too. Pulling the backside G and T.
Unbelievable!!!  
Rick in Dallas : 11/14/2023 10:47 am : link
Bobby Johnson needs to be fired
These players seem to get worse under his coaching…
that is embarrassing  
Jints in Carolina : 11/14/2023 10:50 am : link
.
The first Twitter response  
cosmicj : 11/14/2023 10:50 am : link
Was pretty funny.
I remember seeing that live and thinking  
FranknWeezer : 11/14/2023 10:51 am : link
'did Saquon just have to push the OL out of his way so he could run forward'?
Has McKethan not mastered the playbook or is  
cosmicj : 11/14/2023 10:53 am : link
Johnson not teaching them properly? Who knows? That’s why Daboll needs to bring in an independent consultant to review this situation in depth.
Maybe he got confused  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/14/2023 10:53 am : link
...and thought he was a DT, and on the Cowboys?
Looks to me like he was  
RollBlue : 11/14/2023 11:02 am : link
supposed to block Lawrence (#90) who ended up missing Barkley. Then he had to turn around and find someone else to block.
RE: Bobby Johnson  
section125 : 11/14/2023 11:05 am : link
In comment 16288666 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
Taught him how to block Barkley on that particular play.


I saw that. But then again Cager was likely the cause of Jones knee when he tripped Jones the play before Jones fell over....
It seems "Tough. Smart. Dependable." went out the window this season  
ThreePoints : 11/14/2023 11:17 am : link
A lot of these guys are soft, dumb and unreliable. Some are all 3.
Find the RB  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/14/2023 11:22 am : link
and tell him follow me.
That's beyond awful  
Eli Wilson : 11/14/2023 11:36 am : link
If he wasn't on the field, the result would have been better. Barkley may have even scored.
Damn, if McKethan just got out of Barkley's way there I would have  
PatersonPlank : 11/14/2023 11:39 am : link
won in fantasy this week
it looks like  
Ron Johnson : 11/14/2023 11:42 am : link
he got hit in the head and didn't know which end of the field was which
Johnson realized  
Stufftherun : 11/14/2023 11:44 am : link
he was a lost cause so be tried to simplify things by telling him to just put a body on the first guy after the snap. Problem was, there was a swarm of white jersey’s in the backfield before you could blink an eye. LOL!
Laughable. Looks like he said "follow me" as Barkley  
Blue21 : 11/14/2023 11:56 am : link
Ran into him
Pugh has been her for two weeks  
Silver Spoon : 11/14/2023 12:02 pm : link
and knew exactly where he had to be and what had to be done.
Another Gettleman mistake … oh wait.  
Spider56 : 11/14/2023 12:04 pm : link
Sorry.
That's called  
regulator : 11/14/2023 12:09 pm : link
Not knowing your fucking assignment
Seriously, I don’t want to make excuses for Marcus but in college  
Spider56 : 11/14/2023 12:10 pm : link
he played 2545 of his 2559 snaps at RG …and I believe he’s been at RG exclusively with the Giants. He’s at LG on this play.
I remember all the tough talk about how confident  
Blue21 : 11/14/2023 12:10 pm : link
Johnson had with the o lineman. What a joke. And the we want them to be able to play multiple positions. It makes them more valuable. How about they learn one position first?
RE: That was actually a well executed play (other than #60)  
Matt M. : 11/14/2023 1:26 pm : link
In comment 16288673 mittenedman said:
Quote:
that could've scored a TD too. Pulling the backside G and T.
Agreed.

Instead, the one guys blows it up because he is slow getting off the ball, as a result misses his initial blocking assignment on the pull, and then inexplicably stops and turns around to look at Barkley instead of just making the next block. If he just made that block, it may have been enough.
I was really excited to see a healthy MCKethan this year  
Matt M. : 11/14/2023 1:27 pm : link
But, sadly, this is not the first time he's been left standing around not having engaged a defender and looking around. How does that consistently happen to an OL? Even if you choose the wrong guy, at least hit somebody. Anybody.
It's pretty simple to see the problem.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2023 2:06 pm : link
For some reason he is looking back. His head was in the wrong position and that threw off the whole play. He was late on the snap hence why the other OL almost ran into him. He obviously missed his guy because he was late and the rest is as mentioned above. He missed his guy so he went to go find someone else. It all is basee off him looking at something he shouldn't be looking at.
RE: That's called  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2023 2:09 pm : link
In comment 16288891 regulator said:
Quote:
Not knowing your fucking assignment


He knew his assignment. That wasn't the issue.
McKethan looks like he's thinking  
djm : 11/14/2023 2:10 pm : link
rather than playing football. See a guy, hit and block a guy.
If McKethan actually thinks #90 is his man,  
mittenedman : 11/14/2023 2:28 pm : link
he's even more lost.

It's a read option with #90 being the intentionally unblocked defender. #90 went with the RB so Barkley correctly kept it and was about to run through the huge vacated hole (with what should've been 2 OL pulling through) - but McKethan just stops because he's clueless.

He fucked up the perfect playcall there.
RE: If McKethan actually thinks #90 is his man,  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2023 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16289184 mittenedman said:
Quote:
he's even more lost.

It's a read option with #90 being the intentionally unblocked defender. #90 went with the RB so Barkley correctly kept it and was about to run through the huge vacated hole (with what should've been 2 OL pulling through) - but McKethan just stops because he's clueless.

He fucked up the perfect playcall there.


It's not a read option. You don't have 2 OL pulling on a read option.
Good point.  
mittenedman : 11/14/2023 2:36 pm : link
I redact that. He was trap blocking and he just missed it.
RE: RE: Bobby Johnson  
Toth029 : 11/14/2023 2:44 pm : link
In comment 16288706 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16288666 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


Taught him how to block Barkley on that particular play.



I saw that. But then again Cager was likely the cause of Jones knee when he tripped Jones the play before Jones fell over....


Cager was supposed to block someone on that play, it's undetermined who, and Maxx Crosby crashed down unlocked - which led to Jones hurrying out of the pocket and making him extend his leg.

Jones didn't deserve that shit. Just awful blocking concepts.
Thomas, Pugh and Glowinski have played for a lot of o-Line coaches and  
Ivan15 : 11/14/2023 3:05 pm : link
It would be interesting to hear their opinions on Johnson but we won’t know at least until Johnson is gone.
Thomas, Pugh and Glowinski have played for a lot of o-Line coaches and  
Ivan15 : 11/14/2023 3:06 pm : link
It would be interesting to hear their opinions on Johnson but we won’t know at least until Johnson is gone.
RE: Thomas, Pugh and Glowinski have played for a lot of o-Line coaches and  
Ivan15 : 11/14/2023 3:08 pm : link
In comment 16289230 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
It would be interesting to hear their opinions on Johnson but we won’t know at least until Johnson is gone.

Sorry!
This must go viral  
Chris684 : 11/14/2023 3:15 pm : link
Late out of stance.

Turns his back to the line of scrimmage.

Generally clueless.

Hits no one but his own back until the play is over.
I'm not sure how many have played and understand what is happening.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2023 3:21 pm : link
I'll explain this so some understand. McKethan's man is 90. When you pull 2 guys like they did, the first OL responsibility is to kick out the last man in the line of scrimmage, which was 90. The 2nd OL responsibility is to lead up the hole and really get the most dangerous man but most likely the OLB or down S. The rest of the OL down blocks. Most likely the OT to the play side is going to help double and initial penetration and then lead up to the MLB. It depends where the DL is lined up. The play is designed for Barkley is to basically run straight ahead and slightly to his left.

When McKethan was late because he wasn't ready for the snap and looking sideways/backwards. Since he was so late, Pugh had to slow down and he had no shot at 90. Because he was so slow and had no shot at 90, he went to peel back to block him. The problem is he got in Barkley's way. Since he got in his way, he was like oh shit let me go block someone else.

The whole play looks ridiculous but it doesn't mean he doesn't know the play. It doesn't mean he tried to get the wrong man. None of this is true. The issue is just him looking backward and not realizing the ball was snapped. Get on him for that but not because he doesn't know the play. The only point to Barkley faking the handoff is to slow down the interior players (DL and MLB) so that those blocks have time to set up when one of the OL, probably the RT, can help initial penetration by the DT and then have time to peel off to the MLB.
Sorry, slightly to his right  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2023 3:22 pm : link
Not left
I'll break it down more  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2023 3:40 pm : link
Phillips and Bredson's responsibility is to double 95. Because 95 lined up inside of Bredeson, he's not really a threat to the play. Phillips watches 95 first and then peels off to 33. Notice how 33 takes a step to his right. That is why Barkley runs the fake. It sets up that block for Phillips perfectly. JMS is to take 58 so that he doesn't chase the play from the backside.

I went over McKethan. If the play is run correctly, he kicks out 90. You can see if he did that, it'll be a tight hole. Pugh will have to lead up on 14. Number 28 doesn't need to be blocked as he is way to wide. The play never should have been that wide. If run correctly, Barkley should have went straight ahead on the hash and that is where the hole was. The hole looks gigantic after McKethan was late butif everything was run correctly, it would have been a tight hole whith Barkley one on one with the safety if everyone held their blocks but Phillips seemed to not hold the block on the MLB.
RE: I'm not sure how many have played and understand what is happening.  
Matt M. : 11/14/2023 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16289253 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I'll explain this so some understand. McKethan's man is 90. When you pull 2 guys like they did, the first OL responsibility is to kick out the last man in the line of scrimmage, which was 90. The 2nd OL responsibility is to lead up the hole and really get the most dangerous man but most likely the OLB or down S. The rest of the OL down blocks. Most likely the OT to the play side is going to help double and initial penetration and then lead up to the MLB. It depends where the DL is lined up. The play is designed for Barkley is to basically run straight ahead and slightly to his left.

When McKethan was late because he wasn't ready for the snap and looking sideways/backwards. Since he was so late, Pugh had to slow down and he had no shot at 90. Because he was so slow and had no shot at 90, he went to peel back to block him. The problem is he got in Barkley's way. Since he got in his way, he was like oh shit let me go block someone else.

The whole play looks ridiculous but it doesn't mean he doesn't know the play. It doesn't mean he tried to get the wrong man. None of this is true. The issue is just him looking backward and not realizing the ball was snapped. Get on him for that but not because he doesn't know the play. The only point to Barkley faking the handoff is to slow down the interior players (DL and MLB) so that those blocks have time to set up when one of the OL, probably the RT, can help initial penetration by the DT and then have time to peel off to the MLB.
That's how I read it too. We actually got lucky that 90 overshot the play, because without McKethan touching him, he had a clean shot at Barkley. He went straight for Breida instead. You are right that where this really was impacted was Pugh being slowed to the point where he can't get a clean hit on #14, who ends up being in on the stop. If Pugh gets to him a step earlier, Barkley has a one on one, as you suggest.
funny how Pugh...  
BillKo : 11/14/2023 3:51 pm : link
...has to push him out of his way, LOL

So what is this coaching or the player?

.  
Banks : 11/14/2023 4:16 pm : link
god, that was frustrating live. The play was there, but McKethan went full heel turn. I expected him to tear off his jersey revealing a cowboys one underneath
Re: Bobby Johnson  
shyster : 11/14/2023 4:40 pm : link
In comment 16289201 Toth029 said:
Quote:


Cager was supposed to block someone on that play, it's undetermined who, and Maxx Crosby crashed down unlocked - which led to Jones hurrying out of the pocket and making him extend his leg.

Jones didn't deserve that shit. Just awful blocking concepts.


Cager really didn't do anything wrong. Crosby lined up on his end, facing an apparent double team from Cager and Neal. Crosby left them to do a looping stunt up the center A gap.

Neal was picked off from following Crosby by Bredeson and the DL Bredeson was locked up with.

Schmitz was not protecting the A gap. He had gone after the DL on Pugh's side, initially double teaming him, then getting locked up 1 on 1, leaving Pugh blocking nobody.

Jones was somewhat delayed getting into his passing set up by a play action fake to Barkley that Crosby paid no attention to.

Jones had about 2.5 seconds, maybe a tick more, to get a pass off before the pressure from Crosby made him move. There was a window for a quick throw over the middle to Bellinger, but Jones didn't take it.

Cager kept his eyes on Crosby, as he should, and peeled back in an attempt to pick off Crosby as Crosby was chasing Jones. But Jones cut toward Cager and disaster ensued.

Hard to single anyone out for criticism. Schmitz left the A gap exposed, but maybe he was doing his job selling the play action fake and blocking as though it were a running play. Bredeson would have had a hard time getting off his man to block Crosby, even if he tried, and Neal had no real chance to get through the bodies in his way.

When a DE gives up his edge and loops up the center A gap as Crosby did, it can leave his side of the field exposed and lead to a big play for the offense. Not in this case.

youtube - ( New Window )
RE: Has McKethan not mastered the playbook or is  
JoeSchoens11 : 11/14/2023 5:18 pm : link
In comment 16288687 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Johnson not teaching them properly? Who knows? That’s why Daboll needs to bring in an independent consultant to review this situation in depth.
Honestly I’m not which is worse, mastering the designed ‘turn around and run at the rb’ play or blowing the playbook while being coached to the level that you even think to do that.
RE: funny how Pugh...  
Giantsbigblue : 11/14/2023 5:22 pm : link
In comment 16289311 BillKo said:
Quote:
...has to push him out of his way, LOL

So what is this coaching or the player?


That was 100% on Mckethan. He was slow out of the snap. Whether he has the athleticism to pull is another question though
And they could have drafted Jamaree Salyer instead  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11/14/2023 9:15 pm : link
Who just happens to be one of the best young guards in the league!!!
The number #1 characteristic of a NYG Offensive Lineman  
ThomasG : 11/15/2023 8:22 am : link
is that they are too slow. Too slow in getting off the snap, reacting with their hands and moving into position with their feet. In fact, the main reason behind Andrew Thomas turning his game around as a Giant is when he sped up his game.

They are ineptly slow. Assume they must practice that way and it gets ingrained in how they play.
RE: RE: That's called  
regulator : 11/15/2023 9:37 am : link
In comment 16289155 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 16288891 regulator said:


Quote:


Not knowing your fucking assignment



He knew his assignment. That wasn't the issue.


Did you speak to him? Did he tell you he knew the play? Do you know the play?

I could be wrong, but if there's one thing I know in football it's OL play, and that look is the classic kind of hesitation that happens when you aren't sure of what you are supposed to be doing on a play. The eye in the sky don't lie...
RE: RE: RE: That's called  
regulator : 11/15/2023 9:42 am : link
In comment 16289825 regulator said:
Quote:
In comment 16289155 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 16288891 regulator said:


Quote:


Not knowing your fucking assignment



He knew his assignment. That wasn't the issue.



Did you speak to him? Did he tell you he knew the play? Do you know the play?

I could be wrong, but if there's one thing I know in football it's OL play, and that look is the classic kind of hesitation that happens when you aren't sure of what you are supposed to be doing on a play. The eye in the sky don't lie...


But I am with you that he clearly is late off the ball... my thinking is that he's trying to sort out his assignment based on the front and what the call is, and barely gets out of his stance.
Clearly  
SomeFan : 11/15/2023 1:42 pm : link
he had his head up his ass on that play because, you know, why do you need to be dialed in when playing in the NFL.
You can go back throughout the season and find plays like this  
Thunderstruck27 : 11/15/2023 3:35 pm : link
in every game. There is something fundamentally broken in our blocking scheme or personnel or both.
Just refer to this when you wonder why we can't score. Or just blame the RB or QB.
The worst indictment of him on that play  
BlueHurricane : 11/15/2023 3:51 pm : link
Is how late he was off the ball. We teach 7/8th graders that the easiest edge you can give yourself as a O-linemen is winning the snap. It takes no skill or athletic ability. Its a gift for the offense. This is a poorly coached O-Line
Does it?  
HBart : 11/15/2023 4:13 pm : link
McKethan may be selling insurance in a year, but having an OL (or any other player) mess up a play call happens multiple times a game.

I'm going to say the blocked FG that started the train wreck may be the defining play of the season.

My other sum up play candidates are Gano's miss and Barkley falling versus the Jets, and TT calling the run play at the goal line.
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