Let's say the Giants get Williams or Maye in the next draft. Let's also say the Giants view Jones as kind of a Kurt Warner role from 2004 in this upcoming season. What would happen if Jones has a bounce back, Pro Bowl type year in 2024 where the O-line is obviously considerably better, and Jones put's up a season that is a combination of his Rookie year/2022 season with say 25 Passing TD's, around 13 Int's and 800 yards rushing with 6-7 rushing TD's. The Giants go 10-7, and win a Playoff game again. I know he is coming off the ACL, but with modern medicine he should be back by September.
No matter what anybody says, the Giants are going to have a dilemma on their hands if such a scenario took place. The reason of course, is because there is never a guarantee with the QB position. If the Giants were to get rid of Jones and start over with a zero experience second year QB in 25, that would mean Schoen and Dabble are going back to square one. That could potentially be damaging to their job security, and they are well aware of this.
I am not defending Jones's play this season before he got hurt; He was obviously not playing very well. But he has shown that he is a very good player when he has a good O-line in front of him and the team is not decimated with injuries. For a comparison, look how bad Josh Allen has looked the past few weeks. The Bills have had major injury problems, and when that happens, the QB can sometimes try to force things too much. I think they would be taking a big risk with Willaims or Maye. I view both players as potential busts to be honest. I have not been overly impressed with either, from what I have seen of their college games. This is something that has to be taken into consideration. I don't agree with Giants fans who have completely moved on from Jones. I want to see him play with a healthy O-Line, a legit number 1 reiver, and a healthy Saquon Barkley(or a good RB replacement if he is gone). Let's wait and see.
Sounds like you need to do better.
torpedo yet another thread.
DJ should be here for 2024, we should draft the heir apparent in 2024 and then hopefully DJ plays well and we trade him for value.
With the way the draft contracts are structured, drafting a top QB you expect him to play right away. Gone are the days of a QB sitting and waiting for his chance.
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
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In comment 16288749 ajr2456 said:
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
It's not a fucking debate Jones thread yet you turn it into one time and time again.
Also, the guy played well in 22 just be a fucking adult and admit that. We can all agree he's been trash this season and NYG, if given the chance should upgrade the position.
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
Let it play out. Let's draft a QB first and go from there.
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
I like this. Also a great handle...
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Lead 1 untalented team to the playoffs and win a game?
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
I like this. Also a great handle...
Appreciate you.
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
Last season was the ceiling, many thought amd continue to argue that it was the floor. Nothing wrong with having enjoyed it, but realize what it was.
JS wasn't sure if it was the floor or ceiling. He hoped for the former but prepared for the latter
The three men all I see at the the top of the draft are better athletes, with greater arm talent.
That will show up.
Jones will give them a better chance to win at the start and a perfect reason not to throw the rookie to the wolves.
patience.
We are almost there.
Jones was just the bridge QB, it wasn't worth all the fuss.
Looks like a historic QB draft.
Maybe, just maybe, our stars are about to change?
Man, the Giants will likely have a new QB in 2024 but the fact that you refuse to even admit that Jones balled out at times last year just makes you look foolish. You don't have to ruin every thread by saying Jones sucks. Jones was not good this year. But to paint everything in a broad brush and conveniently leave out the success last year is maddening.
We have no clue if Schoen loves Williams or Maye. He might love both. Based on the Buffalo model, you'd think Maye would basically be their #1 option.
We also don't know what's going to happen the rest of the season.
We also do not know if the Giants end up with the #1 pick, and some random team offers them 3 additional #1 picks (besides 2024) for that pick, that Schoen wouldn't say no.
A lot still to happen before we settle in on "Giants are taking a quarterback."
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
Man, the Giants will likely have a new QB in 2024 but the fact that you refuse to even admit that Jones balled out at times last year just makes you look foolish. You don't have to ruin every thread by saying Jones sucks. Jones was not good this year. But to paint everything in a broad brush and conveniently leave out the success last year is maddening.
When did Jones throw for 25 tds with limited turnovers in 2022? The OP didn’t say if Jones played like last year. They said if he played at a level that combined the best parts of 2019 and 2022, which is something Jones hasn’t done. I know reading is hard for you but at least try.
Jones has been one of the worst QBs in the league 3 out of 5 years. The other two years were at best ok. Would you feel better if I said Jones only sucks about 60% of the time?
The Giants collapsed because this team is mentally a house of cards, not because they traded Williams.
There are a lot more players that need to go before this team gets better, and not all of it is primarily because they are bad players.
We have no clue if Schoen loves Williams or Maye. He might love both. Based on the Buffalo model, you'd think Maye would basically be their #1 option.
We also don't know what's going to happen the rest of the season.
We also do not know if the Giants end up with the #1 pick, and some random team offers them 3 additional #1 picks (besides 2024) for that pick, that Schoen wouldn't say no.
A lot still to happen before we settle in on "Giants are taking a quarterback."
Jayden Daniels needs to always be in this conversation. He is in the convo for the first overall pick.
What Daniels did on Saturday was historic, and he's been terrific all year.
I've said this before, but the guy throws like Stroud and runs like Fields. That combination of skills I don't believe we've ever seen before.
People are comparing his running ability to Lamar, who's a terrific runner. I think he's even more explosive running than Lamar and he's way more advanced then Lamar was as a passer coming out.
Still a lot of football to be played but he has my attention and is definitely in the conversation as the QB1 of this class.
At this point in 2017 everyone assumed Darnold would be the first QB off the board and the first overall pick. It was considered a slam dunk. That didn't happen.
Again, lots of football to be played and the post-season workouts and evaluations to be done.
Let the process play out.
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and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
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In comment 16288960 djm said:
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and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
You don't give a mediocre player $100M because you're uncertain who else will do the job. There are always options in the draft, free agency, etc. Josh Dobbs was just acquired for a late pick swap. Purdy was a 7th rounder. And both are better than Jones.
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In comment 16288960 djm said:
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and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
Schoen already thought of this. Tyrod Taylor was in place as the bridge QB to the 2024 draft. Taylor (who we saw this year is similar quality to Jones) could have held the position down along with a rookie or veteran backup through what was going to be a difficult 2023, after which they would draft the QB in 2024.
You can surmise that was the plan based on two key actions:
1. Signing Taylor to a 2 year deal
2. Not picking up Jones's fifth year option
That lined everything up perfectly for this upcoming offseason.
Reversing course because of last year's illusion created this mess.
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In comment 16289051 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16288960 djm said:
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and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
Schoen already thought of this. Tyrod Taylor was in place as the bridge QB to the 2024 draft. Taylor (who we saw this year is similar quality to Jones) could have held the position down along with a rookie or veteran backup through what was going to be a difficult 2023, after which they would draft the QB in 2024.
You can surmise that was the plan based on two key actions:
1. Signing Taylor to a 2 year deal
2. Not picking up Jones's fifth year option
That lined everything up perfectly for this upcoming offseason.
Reversing course because of last year's illusion created this mess.
I think picking up the 5th year option would have been the better course. Would have been cheaper, been done after this season, and would not have given Jones the upper hand in negotiations after just 1 season of improvement.
The Giants collapsed because this team is mentally a house of cards, not because they traded Williams.
There are a lot more players that need to go before this team gets better, and not all of it is primarily because they are bad players.
Young and Sweat were not those guys.
Williams is a beloved pro that shows up and always plays hard.
It broke their will.
All over the team, boo boo's are now going to miss games.
Teams make business decisions all the time.
Players do it now too.
Modern NFL
Another reason why the game is not as good.
It's a tough sell to a fanbase that you will not be re-upping the QB that just lead your team to the first playoff win since 2008 and instead we will be dealing for Josh Dobbs and/or starting Tyrod Taylor. Throw in the fact that the owner loves DJ makes it an impossible situation for Daboll/Schoen.
They took the best road they could given the factors at play. They gave themselves an out should the scenario we are watching play out.
All they need to do is tag and trade SB this summer. Draft a QB with the 1st or 2nd overall pick and the Schoen and Daboll are officially on the clock with "their" team and hope is restored.
Plus, we got a fun, un-expected season of winning on the way.
It's a tough sell to a fanbase that you will not be re-upping the QB that just lead your team to the first playoff win since 2008 and instead we will be dealing for Josh Dobbs and/or starting Tyrod Taylor. Throw in the fact that the owner loves DJ makes it an impossible situation for Daboll/Schoen.
They took the best road they could given the factors at play. They gave themselves an out should the scenario we are watching play out.
All they need to do is tag and trade SB this summer. Draft a QB with the 1st or 2nd overall pick and the Schoen and Daboll are officially on the clock with "their" team and hope is restored.
Plus, we got a fun, un-expected season of winning on the way.
'It's a tough sell' is an argument I have been struggling with over the past month.
Had they entered the season with Tyrod Taylor as the QB, would opening night on SNF against Dallas have been played before thousands of empty seats?
The Giants are about to learn what a tough sell really is.
But you've interacted with some of these DJ fanboys, I've seen it - one of which is Mara...yes I do believe there would have been some financial impact to moving on from DJ with TT.
What if we get the #1 pick and Williams says he's not coming here like Eli. We're at least as bad now as SD was then.
Its hard enough to get guys to learn proper mechanics here when the line is good, impossible when its this dysfunctional.
Jones will probably be the starter next year with a quick hook. Its wild that from a pure QBing standpoint, he got better every year, and this year he regressed on the field. But sitting a rookie for a little bit isn't the end of the world, especially if its Williams. If this team doesn't win at least 7 games next year, I don't want any part of Daboll and company.
God this orginization is pathetic and its hard to see hope when the major reason we've had success is because the NFL had to step in because of how dysfunctional we were. That system has been devolved and now we have to trust Mara to get us out of it? Yeah...
If they take Williams, I'm buying stock in Kleenex (Kimberly-Clark).
In spite of looking small and thin, maybe even frail, it’s hard to ignore Daniels. After the bowl games and the combine, when all the prospcts will or should go head-to-head, we may see the real franchise QB emerge, like Stroud did this year.
Caleb Williams OL play has been horrendous this year. It sucks cause I like to see what he can do from the pocket more consistently. But he is always on the move and making plays.
Hence, why he fumbles a lot too.
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You haven’t seen Williams make plays off script?
Caleb Williams OL play has been horrendous this year. It sucks cause I like to see what he can do from the pocket more consistently. But he is always on the move and making plays.
Hence, why he fumbles a lot too.
Too many people here don’t watch football that isn’t the Giants
Sure there is.
Stroud, Richardson and Young all started this year.
Stroud has been brilliant. Richardson was showing some real promise before the injury. And Young doesn't look overwhelmed at all. He just doesn't have much infrastructure yet.
What does Jones offer to a new QB realistically? The areas a rookie would likely need the most help, reading the coverage, pre-snap reads, and progressions are all weaknesses for Jones. I don't look at him as a potential mentor at all.
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In comment 16288953 djm said:
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In comment 16288749 ajr2456 said:
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
It's not a fucking debate Jones thread yet you turn it into one time and time again.
Also, the guy played well in 22 just be a fucking adult and admit that. We can all agree he's been trash this season and NYG, if given the chance should upgrade the position.
Well? Sure, but not good enough.
What does Jones offer to a new QB realistically? The areas a rookie would likely need the most help, reading the coverage, pre-snap reads, and progressions are all weaknesses for Jones. I don't look at him as a potential mentor at all.
The Warner comp makes no sense. Warner wasn't on the 2003 team, he came to the Giants knowing what his role would be.
Bringing back Jones to be a backup would br awkward. Kerry Collins wanted no part of it in 2004, a clean break would be better.
Let it play out. Let's draft a QB first and go from there.
We have to draft a QB because of DJ's neck situation. One more shot might end his career
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In comment 16288955 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16288953 djm said:
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In comment 16288749 ajr2456 said:
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
It's not a fucking debate Jones thread yet you turn it into one time and time again.
Also, the guy played well in 22 just be a fucking adult and admit that. We can all agree he's been trash this season and NYG, if given the chance should upgrade the position.
Well? Sure, but not good enough.
I think a lot of people went wrong expecting another jump from him even. He was in the 12-15 range of QBs, but we paid him like he was in the top 5-7, which is insane. He never showed any indication that he would be that kind of QB. 2022 was easily his best and most consistent season. He was a below average passer, to which many counter his value running the ball. But, even when you throw in his rushing TDs, he is not a top 10 QB when comparing him to other QBs passing only #s. Throw in his rushing yards, and he squeeks in at #10, again only comparing against passing #s of other QBs. This is mediocre.
Exactly. And any QB from the defensive void that is the Pac-10, 12 (14, whatever) scares the crap out of me. I have said before, when people were gushing about Darnold, I watched him play Ohio State and was not impressed at all. I saw a quarterback who looked like a scared little girl when he finally faced a good pass rush and good defensive backs. And I saw a lot of the same thing with Williams against Notre Dame.
Daniels needs to be in the discussion for the Giants and my guess is he will be because Daboll will love the running ability. I think based on the actual play, Daniels is definitely ahead of Maye and even with Williams. Daniels has done it against Alabama (before he was hurt), FSU, Missouri, Ole Miss (not his fault the D gave up 55, including 21 in the fourth quarter) and Florida. Unfortunately we won't get a chance to see him against Georgia. What top pass defenses and rushers has Williams faced? CBS has one Pac-12 CB in its top 150 prospects list. There are 8 from the SEC.
Right now everyone is influenced by the preseason ranking from the pundits. Joe Burrow should teach everyone that's not the best approach. I saw one "reputable" site's mock draft last week and they had Daniels in the fourth round because they were using preseason rankings. Or maybe they just mixed up fourth round and fourth overall.
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Jon Kitna played very well during Carson Palmer's rookie year. Drew Brees was awesome in Philip Rivers' rookie season.
DJ should be here for 2024, we should draft the heir apparent in 2024 and then hopefully DJ plays well and we trade him for value.
With the way the draft contracts are structured, drafting a top QB you expect him to play right away. Gone are the days of a QB sitting and waiting for his chance.
Sure, so let DJ and the first round QB battle it out to be the starter. No one should be handed anything