Let's say the Giants get Williams or Maye in the next draft. Let's also say the Giants view Jones as kind of a Kurt Warner role from 2004 in this upcoming season. What would happen if Jones has a bounce back, Pro Bowl type year in 2024 where the O-line is obviously considerably better, and Jones put's up a season that is a combination of his Rookie year/2022 season with say 25 Passing TD's, around 13 Int's and 800 yards rushing with 6-7 rushing TD's. The Giants go 10-7, and win a Playoff game again. I know he is coming off the ACL, but with modern medicine he should be back by September.
No matter what anybody says, the Giants are going to have a dilemma on their hands if such a scenario took place. The reason of course, is because there is never a guarantee with the QB position. If the Giants were to get rid of Jones and start over with a zero experience second year QB in 25, that would mean Schoen and Dabble are going back to square one. That could potentially be damaging to their job security, and they are well aware of this.
I am not defending Jones's play this season before he got hurt; He was obviously not playing very well. But he has shown that he is a very good player when he has a good O-line in front of him and the team is not decimated with injuries. For a comparison, look how bad Josh Allen has looked the past few weeks. The Bills have had major injury problems, and when that happens, the QB can sometimes try to force things too much. I think they would be taking a big risk with Willaims or Maye. I view both players as potential busts to be honest. I have not been overly impressed with either, from what I have seen of their college games. This is something that has to be taken into consideration. I don't agree with Giants fans who have completely moved on from Jones. I want to see him play with a healthy O-Line, a legit number 1 reiver, and a healthy Saquon Barkley(or a good RB replacement if he is gone). Let's wait and see.
If he has a season like he did last year, next year - move DJ and play the guy you drafted #1.
It's a slam dunk best case scenario.
If he has a season like he did last year, next year - move DJ and play the guy you drafted #1.
It's a slam dunk best case scenario.
And if they go from 10-7/playoff win to going 6-11 with the QB they drafted/no playoffs. What then?
You are taking a guy to replace or be the franchise QB instead of Jones, play him.
You are taking a guy to replace or be the franchise QB instead of Jones, play him.
Definitely the most likely scenario.
If they can get someone to take DJ off their hands for ANY kind of draft capital via trade - then even better.
You are taking a guy to replace or be the franchise QB instead of Jones, play him.
100%. Look at Stroud and Young, named starters in camp. It’s not like the Giants were a playoff team lucking into a top pick, they’ll be picking there because they stunk. Play the young QB.
Look at Herbert. He has made the playoffs one time and they lost in an epic disaster due to their defense against Jacksonville. But it is obvious that Herbert is a top 7-8 QB in the league.
Let’s move on.
Let’s move on.
If you read my post, I said I wasn't defending Jones's play this season. What I said, is I want to see him play with Andrew Thomas being healthy, and a new, legit RT because Neal stinks as a RT. I also want to see him play with either Barkly or a legit replacement because the Giants back up RB's are all mediocre at best. I also want to see him play with a true #1 receiver that all the top teams have. If Jones stinks after having all that, then by all means get rid of him.
24 TDs thrown in 19'. 800 yards rushing with 7 TD's in 22', and only 5 ints to go along with the 15 Td's. To say he has never done it would be false.
If the Giants draft a QB at the top of the first, he is the week 1 starter barring injury. There is no longer a dilemma with Jones as he is the backup next year and gone the year after that.
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
24 TDs thrown in 19'. 800 yards rushing with 7 TD's in 22', and only 5 ints to go along with the 15 Td's. To say he has never done it would be false.
Has he ever thrown for 20+ tds and had low turnover numbers in the same year?
You can’t combine two different years and say “see Jones has done it”
You are taking a guy to replace or be the franchise QB instead of Jones, play him.
Bingo
The Chiefs were coming off a 10-6 season I believe. They were a playoff team. The Giants are coming off what will be a 2-4 win season. Smith was healthy and led the Chiefs to the playoffs. Jones was injured most of the year. Big difference.
Yeah.
I don't remember how that all played out, but it would seem like a best case scenario that I was trying to lay out.
I remember the Chiefs were pretty good that year under Alex Smith, who lead them to the playoffs AND Smith earned a Pro-bowl nod.
THen Mahomes played the last game and people were like - damn - he's good.
THen Smith played in the playoff game and the Chiefs lost.
I don't remember if SMith was a FA after that season or the Chiefs traded him to Washington.
That's the only caveat IMO. If the OL still isn't relatively competent next season is the only way I wouldn't be starting a rookie drafted that high. Fixing the OL should be priority #1 next season, and if Schoen still can't do it, I'd seriously question whether he is the man for the job.
DJ should be here for 2024, we should draft the heir apparent in 2024 and then hopefully DJ plays well and we trade him for value.
What happens next depends on who we drafted. If Williams or Maye, and their play in pre-season and practice supports it, we'll likely trade Jones. He'd be a hot commodity coming off the season you describe and his remaining contract is great for the acquiring team. He'd fetch at least a 1st.
If not either of those guys, but still a day 1 or 2 pick, the Giants might go the Trey Lance route instead.
CJ Stroud would disagree with you. Have you seen the state of their OL?
What happens next depends on who we drafted. If Williams or Maye, and their play in pre-season and practice supports it, we'll likely trade Jones. He'd be a hot commodity coming off the season you describe and his remaining contract is great for the acquiring team. He'd fetch at least a 1st.
If not either of those guys, but still a day 1 or 2 pick, the Giants might go the Trey Lance route instead.
Outside of an MVP type season nobody is giving up a first for Jones.
DJ should be here for 2024, we should draft the heir apparent in 2024 and then hopefully DJ plays well and we trade him for value.
Rivers didn't get named the starting QB till his 3rd year and the only reason he did was b/c the Chargers let Brees hit FA after a late season injury in 2005
I don't remember how that all played out, but it would seem like a best case scenario that I was trying to lay out.
I remember the Chiefs were pretty good that year under Alex Smith, who lead them to the playoffs AND Smith earned a Pro-bowl nod.
THen Mahomes played the last game and people were like - damn - he's good.
THen Smith played in the playoff game and the Chiefs lost.
I don't remember if SMith was a FA after that season or the Chiefs traded him to Washington.
Smith had one year left. WAS extended his contract another 4 years as a condition of the trade.
If not either of those guys, but still a day 1 or 2 pick, the Giants might go the Trey Lance route instead.
No one is giving a Day 1 or 2 pick for Jones. And if he was worth it, they wouldn't be in the state they are now.
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
24 TDs thrown in 19'. 800 yards rushing with 7 TD's in 22', and only 5 ints to go along with the 15 Td's. To say he has never done it would be false.
His total TD production (rassing/rushing) don't even put him in the top 15 of QB passing TD, that should tell you a lot about his ability
BUT cutting him after next season, like Lance, is the most likely scenario for sure.
Outside of an MVP type season nobody is giving up a first for Jones.
No chance. The aforementioned Alex Smith was acquired for a player and 3rd round pick, and that was coming off this season:
67.5%, 4042, 26 TD, 5 INT, 8.0 Y/A, 8.6 AY/A
I would make that trade for Jones right now.
We draft a QB in round 1, hopefully Drake Maye.
Keep in mind with Jones, one of his biggest assets is his running ability. He might not be healthy enough by next September to run like he has been.
Its hard enough to get guys to learn proper mechanics here when the line is good, impossible when its this dysfunctional.
Jones will probably be the starter next year with a quick hook. Its wild that from a pure QBing standpoint, he got better every year, and this year he regressed on the field. But sitting a rookie for a little bit isn't the end of the world, especially if its Williams. If this team doesn't win at least 7 games next year, I don't want any part of Daboll and company.
God this orginization is pathetic and its hard to see hope when the major reason we've had success is because the NFL had to step in because of how dysfunctional we were. That system has been devolved and now we have to trust Mara to get us out of it? Yeah...
We draft a QB in round 1, hopefully Drake Maye.
Keep in mind with Jones, one of his biggest assets is his running ability. He might not be healthy enough by next September to run like he has been.
It took Saquon a year after his surgery to really trust it. Everyone's different, but I don't think it should be expected for Jones to play in 2024 like nothing happened
Look at Herbert. He has made the playoffs one time and they lost in an epic disaster due to their defense against Jacksonville. But it is obvious that Herbert is a top 7-8 QB in the league.
While their defense isn't good, Herbert makes a lot of super questionable plays and decisions in the clutch, it isn't good. People blame Staley a lot because of his analytics approach, but he's certainly not without blame. And this is an issue that goes back to his Ducks days. He may be the prototypical guy that melts in the big moments.
We were spoiled by the long stretch of good play by Eli.
There are plenty of teams that went through this cycle for a considerably longer stretch than we have throughout the history of the NFL.
There is no better way to guarantee prolonged success in the league than establishing a franchise QB and it doesn't take this long to figure it out anymore.
In the new NFL GMs make the cycle shorter.
I hate saying THIS!!!
But this.
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
24 TDs thrown in 19'. 800 yards rushing with 7 TD's in 22', and only 5 ints to go along with the 15 Td's. To say he has never done it would be false.
He has done albeit not often enough. Such is the life of the QB for the worst team in the NFL. Williams or Maye or some other poor slob will find out soon enough.
Can we stop this? Jones fucking stinks. He’s had one mediocre year in the last five years.
There’s a better chance of Williams, Maye or Daniel’s being very good, than there is of Jones being very good at this point.
Stop with the “let’s see him with a #1 receiver and a good oline”. The Giants went and added Waller and Hyatt this year, nothing changed. Who is the #1 WR on the Texans? A third round pick from Alabama A&M and another third round pick. Noah Brown didn’t do anything for 5 years in Dallas and is going to probably end up with more receiving yards than any Giant had in 2022.
Stop with the Stockholm syndrome for crying out loud.
Both camps will have issue.
The Giants likely do not win another game.
LW was more to this team than the stats.
The front office bailed on the season.
All the players know.
The players just quit on the season.
We all saw it.
The Giants will draft their choice of QBs.
Even if the ball bounces funny and we win a couple, the Bears don't need 2 QB. We will be a very attractive trade partner as they will be able to get the 2 players they covet and get another high second rounder.
I see no scenario where we do not come away with one of the top 3 QBs.
Jones will kill rehab.
Jones will beat the rookie to start.
If Andrew Thomas starts the year healthy, with the schedule that comes with a 2-15 team, Jones will win games, and it will very hard to take out.
Don't panic.
Just as soon as everyone is ready to go to war over the rookie not playing, Jones career will end to injury.
Jones is going to play balls to the wall, with his hair on fire, because of the pressure the rookie applies.
Like he did last year for a contract.
His body will not pass the test.
He will provide the rookie a show on what it means to prepare and be a pro.
GOOD!
If you know what I mean when I say
GOOD!
You know.
^This is the most likely scenario.
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Which to me is more likely than not, Daboll and Schoen will be fired, and the Giants franchise will be set back another 5 years. Wash, rinse, repeat. You guys who are so quick to want to get rid of Jones need to realize the potential consequences. Yes, it's also possible that Maye or Williams turn into good or even great players. But from what I have seen, it is not likely. Again, Jones's play this season was not good or acceptable. But let's see him with a #1 receiver, and a legitimate offensive line, please. And there are even posters on here claiming the Giants should draft the LSU QB. Are you kidding me? That kid looks like he is 165 lbs., soaking wet. If you think Jones has injury problems, just wait until that guy is in the league; He would get twisted like a pretzel.
Can we stop this? Jones fucking stinks. He’s had one mediocre year in the last five years.
There’s a better chance of Williams, Maye or Daniel’s being very good, than there is of Jones being very good at this point.
Stop with the “let’s see him with a #1 receiver and a good oline”. The Giants went and added Waller and Hyatt this year, nothing changed. Who is the #1 WR on the Texans? A third round pick from Alabama A&M and another third round pick. Noah Brown didn’t do anything for 5 years in Dallas and is going to probably end up with more receiving yards than any Giant had in 2022.
Stop with the Stockholm syndrome for crying out loud.
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Which to me is more likely than not, Daboll and Schoen will be fired, and the Giants franchise will be set back another 5 years. Wash, rinse, repeat. You guys who are so quick to want to get rid of Jones need to realize the potential consequences. Yes, it's also possible that Maye or Williams turn into good or even great players. But from what I have seen, it is not likely. Again, Jones's play this season was not good or acceptable. But let's see him with a #1 receiver, and a legitimate offensive line, please. And there are even posters on here claiming the Giants should draft the LSU QB. Are you kidding me? That kid looks like he is 165 lbs., soaking wet. If you think Jones has injury problems, just wait until that guy is in the league; He would get twisted like a pretzel.
Can we stop this? Jones fucking stinks. He’s had one mediocre year in the last five years.
There’s a better chance of Williams, Maye or Daniel’s being very good, than there is of Jones being very good at this point.
Stop with the “let’s see him with a #1 receiver and a good oline”. The Giants went and added Waller and Hyatt this year, nothing changed. Who is the #1 WR on the Texans? A third round pick from Alabama A&M and another third round pick. Noah Brown didn’t do anything for 5 years in Dallas and is going to probably end up with more receiving yards than any Giant had in 2022.
Stop with the Stockholm syndrome for crying out loud.
Sounds like you need to do better.
torpedo yet another thread.
DJ should be here for 2024, we should draft the heir apparent in 2024 and then hopefully DJ plays well and we trade him for value.
With the way the draft contracts are structured, drafting a top QB you expect him to play right away. Gone are the days of a QB sitting and waiting for his chance.
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
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In comment 16288749 ajr2456 said:
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
It's not a fucking debate Jones thread yet you turn it into one time and time again.
Also, the guy played well in 22 just be a fucking adult and admit that. We can all agree he's been trash this season and NYG, if given the chance should upgrade the position.
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
Let it play out. Let's draft a QB first and go from there.
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
I like this. Also a great handle...
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Lead 1 untalented team to the playoffs and win a game?
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
I like this. Also a great handle...
Appreciate you.
That happened folks.
He can't stay healthy.
The argument on whether he was good or not is moot.
Anyone who likes like Jones, likes what they they saw when they watched games last year. You are not going to show them a stat, that changes that for them.
Why try?
To make it seem like it is stupid to have enjoyed that is going to get you arguments you can't win. I feel the way I feel and felt the way I felt. They paid him so they saw something too. They left an out, because they saw that too.
I don't see the point anymore though.
It's done.
Not today.
But it is done.
Jones needed to win more.
He didn't.
End of story.
Last season was the ceiling, many thought amd continue to argue that it was the floor. Nothing wrong with having enjoyed it, but realize what it was.
JS wasn't sure if it was the floor or ceiling. He hoped for the former but prepared for the latter
The three men all I see at the the top of the draft are better athletes, with greater arm talent.
That will show up.
Jones will give them a better chance to win at the start and a perfect reason not to throw the rookie to the wolves.
patience.
We are almost there.
Jones was just the bridge QB, it wasn't worth all the fuss.
Looks like a historic QB draft.
Maybe, just maybe, our stars are about to change?
Man, the Giants will likely have a new QB in 2024 but the fact that you refuse to even admit that Jones balled out at times last year just makes you look foolish. You don't have to ruin every thread by saying Jones sucks. Jones was not good this year. But to paint everything in a broad brush and conveniently leave out the success last year is maddening.
We have no clue if Schoen loves Williams or Maye. He might love both. Based on the Buffalo model, you'd think Maye would basically be their #1 option.
We also don't know what's going to happen the rest of the season.
We also do not know if the Giants end up with the #1 pick, and some random team offers them 3 additional #1 picks (besides 2024) for that pick, that Schoen wouldn't say no.
A lot still to happen before we settle in on "Giants are taking a quarterback."
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
Man, the Giants will likely have a new QB in 2024 but the fact that you refuse to even admit that Jones balled out at times last year just makes you look foolish. You don't have to ruin every thread by saying Jones sucks. Jones was not good this year. But to paint everything in a broad brush and conveniently leave out the success last year is maddening.
When did Jones throw for 25 tds with limited turnovers in 2022? The OP didn’t say if Jones played like last year. They said if he played at a level that combined the best parts of 2019 and 2022, which is something Jones hasn’t done. I know reading is hard for you but at least try.
Jones has been one of the worst QBs in the league 3 out of 5 years. The other two years were at best ok. Would you feel better if I said Jones only sucks about 60% of the time?
The Giants collapsed because this team is mentally a house of cards, not because they traded Williams.
There are a lot more players that need to go before this team gets better, and not all of it is primarily because they are bad players.
We have no clue if Schoen loves Williams or Maye. He might love both. Based on the Buffalo model, you'd think Maye would basically be their #1 option.
We also don't know what's going to happen the rest of the season.
We also do not know if the Giants end up with the #1 pick, and some random team offers them 3 additional #1 picks (besides 2024) for that pick, that Schoen wouldn't say no.
A lot still to happen before we settle in on "Giants are taking a quarterback."
Jayden Daniels needs to always be in this conversation. He is in the convo for the first overall pick.
What Daniels did on Saturday was historic, and he's been terrific all year.
I've said this before, but the guy throws like Stroud and runs like Fields. That combination of skills I don't believe we've ever seen before.
People are comparing his running ability to Lamar, who's a terrific runner. I think he's even more explosive running than Lamar and he's way more advanced then Lamar was as a passer coming out.
Still a lot of football to be played but he has my attention and is definitely in the conversation as the QB1 of this class.
At this point in 2017 everyone assumed Darnold would be the first QB off the board and the first overall pick. It was considered a slam dunk. That didn't happen.
Again, lots of football to be played and the post-season workouts and evaluations to be done.
Let the process play out.
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and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
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In comment 16288960 djm said:
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and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
You don't give a mediocre player $100M because you're uncertain who else will do the job. There are always options in the draft, free agency, etc. Josh Dobbs was just acquired for a late pick swap. Purdy was a 7th rounder. And both are better than Jones.
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In comment 16288960 djm said:
Quote:
and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
Schoen already thought of this. Tyrod Taylor was in place as the bridge QB to the 2024 draft. Taylor (who we saw this year is similar quality to Jones) could have held the position down along with a rookie or veteran backup through what was going to be a difficult 2023, after which they would draft the QB in 2024.
You can surmise that was the plan based on two key actions:
1. Signing Taylor to a 2 year deal
2. Not picking up Jones's fifth year option
That lined everything up perfectly for this upcoming offseason.
Reversing course because of last year's illusion created this mess.
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In comment 16289051 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16288960 djm said:
Quote:
and ELI was the starter, this place went nuts because they all feared that DJ wouldn't play that first year because Mara and the Giants would never move on from Eli.
Jones was the starter by week 2.
Which only showed the stupidity of the front office. They paid Eli $23M to start 4 games.
There is a similar stupidity now, where there is a possibility that they will have paid Jones $81M for 5 starts.
In both cases the waste will have stemmed from paying a guy that should not have been paid.
This is where we part ways.
You all talk about it like it's your own money...
Who were you going to get to play QB this year if not Daniel Jones?
Schoen already thought of this. Tyrod Taylor was in place as the bridge QB to the 2024 draft. Taylor (who we saw this year is similar quality to Jones) could have held the position down along with a rookie or veteran backup through what was going to be a difficult 2023, after which they would draft the QB in 2024.
You can surmise that was the plan based on two key actions:
1. Signing Taylor to a 2 year deal
2. Not picking up Jones's fifth year option
That lined everything up perfectly for this upcoming offseason.
Reversing course because of last year's illusion created this mess.
I think picking up the 5th year option would have been the better course. Would have been cheaper, been done after this season, and would not have given Jones the upper hand in negotiations after just 1 season of improvement.
The Giants collapsed because this team is mentally a house of cards, not because they traded Williams.
There are a lot more players that need to go before this team gets better, and not all of it is primarily because they are bad players.
Young and Sweat were not those guys.
Williams is a beloved pro that shows up and always plays hard.
It broke their will.
All over the team, boo boo's are now going to miss games.
Teams make business decisions all the time.
Players do it now too.
Modern NFL
Another reason why the game is not as good.
It's a tough sell to a fanbase that you will not be re-upping the QB that just lead your team to the first playoff win since 2008 and instead we will be dealing for Josh Dobbs and/or starting Tyrod Taylor. Throw in the fact that the owner loves DJ makes it an impossible situation for Daboll/Schoen.
They took the best road they could given the factors at play. They gave themselves an out should the scenario we are watching play out.
All they need to do is tag and trade SB this summer. Draft a QB with the 1st or 2nd overall pick and the Schoen and Daboll are officially on the clock with "their" team and hope is restored.
Plus, we got a fun, un-expected season of winning on the way.
It's a tough sell to a fanbase that you will not be re-upping the QB that just lead your team to the first playoff win since 2008 and instead we will be dealing for Josh Dobbs and/or starting Tyrod Taylor. Throw in the fact that the owner loves DJ makes it an impossible situation for Daboll/Schoen.
They took the best road they could given the factors at play. They gave themselves an out should the scenario we are watching play out.
All they need to do is tag and trade SB this summer. Draft a QB with the 1st or 2nd overall pick and the Schoen and Daboll are officially on the clock with "their" team and hope is restored.
Plus, we got a fun, un-expected season of winning on the way.
'It's a tough sell' is an argument I have been struggling with over the past month.
Had they entered the season with Tyrod Taylor as the QB, would opening night on SNF against Dallas have been played before thousands of empty seats?
The Giants are about to learn what a tough sell really is.
But you've interacted with some of these DJ fanboys, I've seen it - one of which is Mara...yes I do believe there would have been some financial impact to moving on from DJ with TT.
What if we get the #1 pick and Williams says he's not coming here like Eli. We're at least as bad now as SD was then.
Its hard enough to get guys to learn proper mechanics here when the line is good, impossible when its this dysfunctional.
Jones will probably be the starter next year with a quick hook. Its wild that from a pure QBing standpoint, he got better every year, and this year he regressed on the field. But sitting a rookie for a little bit isn't the end of the world, especially if its Williams. If this team doesn't win at least 7 games next year, I don't want any part of Daboll and company.
God this orginization is pathetic and its hard to see hope when the major reason we've had success is because the NFL had to step in because of how dysfunctional we were. That system has been devolved and now we have to trust Mara to get us out of it? Yeah...
If they take Williams, I'm buying stock in Kleenex (Kimberly-Clark).
In spite of looking small and thin, maybe even frail, it’s hard to ignore Daniels. After the bowl games and the combine, when all the prospcts will or should go head-to-head, we may see the real franchise QB emerge, like Stroud did this year.
Caleb Williams OL play has been horrendous this year. It sucks cause I like to see what he can do from the pocket more consistently. But he is always on the move and making plays.
Hence, why he fumbles a lot too.
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You haven’t seen Williams make plays off script?
Caleb Williams OL play has been horrendous this year. It sucks cause I like to see what he can do from the pocket more consistently. But he is always on the move and making plays.
Hence, why he fumbles a lot too.
Too many people here don’t watch football that isn’t the Giants
Sure there is.
Stroud, Richardson and Young all started this year.
Stroud has been brilliant. Richardson was showing some real promise before the injury. And Young doesn't look overwhelmed at all. He just doesn't have much infrastructure yet.
What does Jones offer to a new QB realistically? The areas a rookie would likely need the most help, reading the coverage, pre-snap reads, and progressions are all weaknesses for Jones. I don't look at him as a potential mentor at all.
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In comment 16288953 djm said:
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In comment 16288749 ajr2456 said:
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
It's not a fucking debate Jones thread yet you turn it into one time and time again.
Also, the guy played well in 22 just be a fucking adult and admit that. We can all agree he's been trash this season and NYG, if given the chance should upgrade the position.
Well? Sure, but not good enough.
What does Jones offer to a new QB realistically? The areas a rookie would likely need the most help, reading the coverage, pre-snap reads, and progressions are all weaknesses for Jones. I don't look at him as a potential mentor at all.
The Warner comp makes no sense. Warner wasn't on the 2003 team, he came to the Giants knowing what his role would be.
Bringing back Jones to be a backup would br awkward. Kerry Collins wanted no part of it in 2004, a clean break would be better.
Let it play out. Let's draft a QB first and go from there.
We have to draft a QB because of DJ's neck situation. One more shot might end his career
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In comment 16288955 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16288953 djm said:
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In comment 16288749 ajr2456 said:
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About Jones doing things he’s never done
torpedo yet another thread.
That’s rich.
It's not a fucking debate Jones thread yet you turn it into one time and time again.
Also, the guy played well in 22 just be a fucking adult and admit that. We can all agree he's been trash this season and NYG, if given the chance should upgrade the position.
Well? Sure, but not good enough.
I think a lot of people went wrong expecting another jump from him even. He was in the 12-15 range of QBs, but we paid him like he was in the top 5-7, which is insane. He never showed any indication that he would be that kind of QB. 2022 was easily his best and most consistent season. He was a below average passer, to which many counter his value running the ball. But, even when you throw in his rushing TDs, he is not a top 10 QB when comparing him to other QBs passing only #s. Throw in his rushing yards, and he squeeks in at #10, again only comparing against passing #s of other QBs. This is mediocre.
Exactly. And any QB from the defensive void that is the Pac-10, 12 (14, whatever) scares the crap out of me. I have said before, when people were gushing about Darnold, I watched him play Ohio State and was not impressed at all. I saw a quarterback who looked like a scared little girl when he finally faced a good pass rush and good defensive backs. And I saw a lot of the same thing with Williams against Notre Dame.
Daniels needs to be in the discussion for the Giants and my guess is he will be because Daboll will love the running ability. I think based on the actual play, Daniels is definitely ahead of Maye and even with Williams. Daniels has done it against Alabama (before he was hurt), FSU, Missouri, Ole Miss (not his fault the D gave up 55, including 21 in the fourth quarter) and Florida. Unfortunately we won't get a chance to see him against Georgia. What top pass defenses and rushers has Williams faced? CBS has one Pac-12 CB in its top 150 prospects list. There are 8 from the SEC.
Right now everyone is influenced by the preseason ranking from the pundits. Joe Burrow should teach everyone that's not the best approach. I saw one "reputable" site's mock draft last week and they had Daniels in the fourth round because they were using preseason rankings. Or maybe they just mixed up fourth round and fourth overall.
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Jon Kitna played very well during Carson Palmer's rookie year. Drew Brees was awesome in Philip Rivers' rookie season.
DJ should be here for 2024, we should draft the heir apparent in 2024 and then hopefully DJ plays well and we trade him for value.
With the way the draft contracts are structured, drafting a top QB you expect him to play right away. Gone are the days of a QB sitting and waiting for his chance.
Sure, so let DJ and the first round QB battle it out to be the starter. No one should be handed anything