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NFT: Hockey player charged with manslaughter

DanMetroMan : 11/14/2023 11:49 am
A man has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter over the death of ice hockey player Adam Johnson, whose neck was cut during a match.
The Nottingham Panthers player was injured by a skate in a match against Sheffield Steelers on 28 October.
The 29-year-old was taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead.
A post-mortem examination confirmed Johnson died as a result of a fatal neck injury, South Yorkshire Police said.
The force said detectives arrested the suspect on Tuesday, adding that he remained in custody.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/14/2023 11:53 am : link
I didn't watch the play (and don't care to) but I have a very difficult time imagining someone could do that on purpose.
go to see  
jestersdead : 11/14/2023 11:53 am : link
they charged him with something. The clip clearly shows the leg whip is not a typical "hockey move"
I agree  
Giantsbigblue : 11/14/2023 11:55 am : link
That was not a natural hockey move. I don't think he intended on killing him, but it sure looked like he was trying to hurt him by kicking his leg up.
What a horrible story  
Mike from Ohio : 11/14/2023 12:16 pm : link
I have not seen the video and do not want to. Even if the leg whip was intentional, I'm sure the guy who did it is sick about killing someone. I'm sure that was not his intention at all, even though he should have realized how dangerous a skate blade is.
I watched the play  
pjcas18 : 11/14/2023 12:21 pm : link
and my first reaction was WTF was the defender doing I have never seen any player in 45+ years of hockey playing, coaching, and watching do what he did. He basically did a flying leg/mule kick to a player.

At a minimum it was reckless and IMO the charge is appropriate.



Based on the video alone  
Stufftherun : 11/14/2023 12:22 pm : link
I don’t see how you can’t come to the conclusion that there was intent to at the very least, injure.

In all of the hockey I’ve watched on tv or live over the years I’ve never seen anything like it. Obviously, it was beyond reckless and dangerous.
RE: Based on the video alone  
Danny Kanell : 11/14/2023 12:34 pm : link
In comment 16288924 Stufftherun said:
Quote:
I don’t see how you can’t come to the conclusion that there was intent to at the very least, injure.

In all of the hockey I’ve watched on tv or live over the years I’ve never seen anything like it. Obviously, it was beyond reckless and dangerous.


Agreed.
_____________  
I am Ninja : 11/14/2023 12:38 pm : link
Oh Jeez I didn't read in depth but when it happened but I thought this was in every respect a freak accident. What a terrible thing.
the weird  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/14/2023 12:39 pm : link
thing is the guy got a standing ovation last night.
RE: .....  
cjac : 11/14/2023 12:46 pm : link
In comment 16288851 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I didn't watch the play (and don't care to) but I have a very difficult time imagining someone could do that on purpose.


You should watch it then. It looks really on purpose.
A manslaughter charge  
Jerry K : 11/14/2023 12:53 pm : link
Doesn’t require intent.
RE: the weird  
pjcas18 : 11/14/2023 12:54 pm : link
In comment 16288968 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
thing is the guy got a standing ovation last night.


Maybe because he has been allegedly getting death threats. I think he should be held accountable for his actions, but calling for his death is obviously beyond ok (if that actually happened and it probably did).

And (not to take this thread in an unintended direction) as predicted people brought race into it. I watched the video and came away with the conclusion I did and I could not tell you the race of the offender. If you told me he was as white as the whitest person who ever lived i would not question that. But he's not, he's black, so naturally there are people who exploit that and suggest the only reason people feel charges (or any responsibility) is warranted is due to his race. Which is ridiculous to anyone who watches the video.

RE: RE: .....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/14/2023 12:55 pm : link
In comment 16288983 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 16288851 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I didn't watch the play (and don't care to) but I have a very difficult time imagining someone could do that on purpose.



You should watch it then. It looks really on purpose.


Cjac, I'm happy to take everyone else's view that there was intent on this rather than watch it myself. I'm not going to be on the jury, so happy to remain ignorant here.
RE: RE: the weird  
Giantsbigblue : 11/14/2023 12:57 pm : link
In comment 16289006 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16288968 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


thing is the guy got a standing ovation last night.



Maybe because he has been allegedly getting death threats. I think he should be held accountable for his actions, but calling for his death is obviously beyond ok (if that actually happened and it probably did).

And (not to take this thread in an unintended direction) as predicted people brought race into it. I watched the video and came away with the conclusion I did and I could not tell you the race of the offender. If you told me he was as white as the whitest person who ever lived i would not question that. But he's not, he's black, so naturally there are people who exploit that and suggest the only reason people feel charges (or any responsibility) is warranted is due to his race. Which is ridiculous to anyone who watches the video.


Same, I don't watch anything outside of the NHL and some AHL. I didn't realize his race until I looked at his Hockey reference profile to check his PIM to see if he had a history of dirty play
I'm glad and I am extremely annoyed at those on X  
Andy in Halifax : 11/14/2023 1:00 pm : link
saying it was nothing more than a freak accident. That was absolutely not a freak accident. Yes, there are countless times when a player gets off balance and the skate kicks up.. this was not one of those times. He did this on purpose.

No, I don't think he intended to kill him, but that goes back to the manslaughter charge. No intent but criminally negligent
There is video on-line  
DCOrange : 11/14/2023 1:02 pm : link
Showing the guy doing close to the same thing in a game a few years ago. Which seems to contradict the 'accident' point-of-view.
RE: RE: RE: .....  
cjac : 11/14/2023 1:06 pm : link
In comment 16289011 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16288983 cjac said:


Quote:


In comment 16288851 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I didn't watch the play (and don't care to) but I have a very difficult time imagining someone could do that on purpose.



You should watch it then. It looks really on purpose.



Cjac, I'm happy to take everyone else's view that there was intent on this rather than watch it myself. I'm not going to be on the jury, so happy to remain ignorant here.


Yeah all good Brett, its gruesome, i dont suggest it.
RE: There is video on-line  
jestersdead : 11/14/2023 1:13 pm : link
In comment 16289037 DCOrange said:
Quote:
Showing the guy doing close to the same thing in a game a few years ago. Which seems to contradict the 'accident' point-of-view.

I saw that as well.

Its basically like a lineman getting beat and doing a leg whip to stop the defender. Only problem here, skates are involved.

RE: the weird  
Costy16 : 11/14/2023 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16288968 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
thing is the guy got a standing ovation last night.


I thought that the standing-O was bizarre.

I've been watching hockey my whole life and I've never seen a player's leg come up like that. The scary incidents that have happened in regards to skate cuts have usually been from a guy falling forward and his leg naturally coming up and a guy is right behind him.
i'll take everyone's word for it  
djm : 11/14/2023 1:15 pm : link
I don't want to watch it. What a brutal story.
his existing rap sheet  
bigbluehoya : 11/14/2023 1:36 pm : link
did him the huge disservice of removing any 'benefit of the doubt' that he may have otherwise received from anyone who saw the play.

This guy is an absolute fucking idiot and is clearly a danger to others.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/14/2023 1:38 pm : link
Yeah, cjac, I trust all of you enough--it is just unfathomable to me someone could be so reckless with a skate. The only time I targeted someone with a dirty check was when it was away from the boards (and they totally deserved it)--every skater from a dogshit player like pjcas to Connor McDavid knows not to do shit with the skates or near the neck and above. Really makes me angry that it does seem to have some intent.
I'm with those who don't have interest in watching and judging  
Mad Mike : 11/14/2023 1:42 pm : link
for ourselves, but seems pretty consistent from those of you who have that the guy was intentionally kicking out with his skate towards Johnson. Very sad, but sounds like criminal punishment is warranted.
I've unfortunately seen the clip  
Mike in Long Beach : 11/14/2023 1:43 pm : link
I'm not sure if there was "intent to injure." I think that's a leap. But there was without question a complete recklessness and disregard for the consequences of his lack-of bodily control. On top of that, the player has a history of dirty play.

This is a dreadful situation all around.
I had the unfortunate experience  
bigbluehoya : 11/14/2023 1:45 pm : link
of seeing the video when another one of the dad's on my son's hockey team basically shoved it in front of my face on his phone unannounced last week.

It's quite upsetting. Thankfully, the video (at least the one I saw) is shot from far enough away and with poor enough video quality that it isn't as utterly horrifying as one might visualize on description alone.
RE: .....  
k2tampa : 11/14/2023 2:07 pm : link
In comment 16288851 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I didn't watch the play (and don't care to) but I have a very difficult time imagining someone could do that on purpose.


For manslaughter you don't have to prove he tried to slash his neck. You have to prove his(irresponsible) actions resulted in the injury that caused the death.
RE: What a horrible story  
k2tampa : 11/14/2023 2:08 pm : link
In comment 16288907 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
I have not seen the video and do not want to. Even if the leg whip was intentional, I'm sure the guy who did it is sick about killing someone. I'm sure that was not his intention at all, even though he should have realized how dangerous a skate blade is.


I sure someone who drives drunk and kills someone is sick about it and it wasn't their intention.
RE: RE: What a horrible story  
Mike in Long Beach : 11/14/2023 2:11 pm : link
In comment 16289152 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16288907 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


I have not seen the video and do not want to. Even if the leg whip was intentional, I'm sure the guy who did it is sick about killing someone. I'm sure that was not his intention at all, even though he should have realized how dangerous a skate blade is.



I sure someone who drives drunk and kills someone is sick about it and it wasn't their intention.


That's a fair analogy. To be clear, I'm not condemning the fact that charges were brought. Just sharing my impression of what happened on a human level.
painfully obvious he should have been charged with manslaughter  
KDavies : 11/14/2023 2:15 pm : link
one of the dirtiest plays I've ever seen, particularly when you take into consideration how dangerous a skate blade is.
RE: I agree  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/14/2023 2:18 pm : link
In comment 16288856 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
That was not a natural hockey move. I don't think he intended on killing him, but it sure looked like he was trying to hurt him by kicking his leg up.


That's why it's manslaughter and not murder. Manslaughter means you didn't plan it ahead of time.
I will not watch the video  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2023 2:28 pm : link
But I have seen several former NHL players state that they don't believe it was accidental as they have never seen anything like it. Chris Therien is the only name I can remember but there were a few others too.
Asia had a song called "Heat of the Moment"  
GiantBlue : 11/14/2023 2:35 pm : link
I am sure, all things considered, he wishes every second he could go back to one minute before that play......and take an innocuous holding penalty so he could be in the sin bin when that moment happens.

How many times do we recriminate, thankfully with death not involved, but wish we could do things differently in hindsight.

I hope the players family and the accused can find some peace.
RE: .....  
rnargi : 11/14/2023 2:40 pm : link
In comment 16288851 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I didn't watch the play (and don't care to) but I have a very difficult time imagining someone could do that on purpose.


Brett I saw the play. I thought exactly as you before I saw it. While I do not believe killing the player was his intent, he absolutely intended to injure or at the very least scare the shit out of him. It was reckless and dangerous and he knew...no doubt in my mind...that his actions could have caused him a severe injury. 1q
The video is  
Stufftherun : 11/14/2023 2:41 pm : link
no where near as gory as watching Clint Malarchuk bleed out on the ice but it will tell any objective human being viewing it that it was, as one poster put it, unnatural, and that there was intent.
Gore is one thing  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2023 2:43 pm : link
But, in this case, you know you're watching a man's life end. I have seen many horrible things in my life. I neither want nor need to see more.
It was worse  
pjcas18 : 11/14/2023 2:46 pm : link
than Malarchuck IMO and that's saying something since Malarchuck weas pretty freaking bad.

not sure how anyone who saw the video can say "nowhere near" Malarchuck. I don't think I have ever seen as much blood from the Johnson injury outside of maybe the Shining when the blood runs down the hotel hallway in Danny Torrence's vision.
RE: It was worse  
Stufftherun : 11/14/2023 2:48 pm : link
In comment 16289204 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
than Malarchuck IMO and that's saying something since Malarchuck weas pretty freaking bad.

not sure how anyone who saw the video can say "nowhere near" Malarchuck. I don't think I have ever seen as much blood from the Johnson injury outside of maybe the Shining when the blood runs down the hotel hallway in Danny Torrence's vision.


I’ll tell you how. You must have seen a different or unedited version.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/14/2023 2:56 pm : link
rnargi, I know you've played too--these guys are so skilled, they have much more body control than the average person thinks. I know exactly when I fall a certain way or move a certain way to maybe rough it up a bit and I've never played at a serious level. And even when falling, you know not to kick your feet up, etc.

I watched Malarchuk years ago just because I knew he survived. To Greg's point, I can't watch something knowing the guy died.
RE: RE: It was worse  
pjcas18 : 11/14/2023 2:57 pm : link
In comment 16289206 Stufftherun said:
Quote:
In comment 16289204 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


than Malarchuck IMO and that's saying something since Malarchuck weas pretty freaking bad.

not sure how anyone who saw the video can say "nowhere near" Malarchuck. I don't think I have ever seen as much blood from the Johnson injury outside of maybe the Shining when the blood runs down the hotel hallway in Danny Torrence's vision.



I’ll tell you how. You must have seen a different or unedited version.


good point, certainly possible. Malarchuk was the first thing that popped into my mind and when I saw the video Johnson had not passed and I didn't know he would or I probably would not have watched it. seeing the amount of blood was staggering.

And Greg is right, now knowing he died - I went back to watch the incident again, at full speed I thought the offender was upended and that's how his skates wound up near Johnson's throat, but then you can see he jumped skates first at Johnson and then kind of mule kicked while in midair towards Johnson connecting with his throat. I only mention this because maybe knowing he passed made watching the video that much more morbid than Malarchuk who obviously survived.

I think Johnson had both his carotid and jugular severed, and Malarchuk only the carotid (I think).
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/14/2023 3:00 pm : link
pj, do you play with a neck guard? I've been debating it after this incident.
RE: RE: RE: It was worse  
Stufftherun : 11/14/2023 3:10 pm : link
In comment 16289221 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16289206 Stufftherun said:


Quote:


In comment 16289204 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


than Malarchuck IMO and that's saying something since Malarchuck weas pretty freaking bad.

not sure how anyone who saw the video can say "nowhere near" Malarchuck. I don't think I have ever seen as much blood from the Johnson injury outside of maybe the Shining when the blood runs down the hotel hallway in Danny Torrence's vision.



I’ll tell you how. You must have seen a different or unedited version.



good point, certainly possible. Malarchuk was the first thing that popped into my mind and when I saw the video Johnson had not passed and I didn't know he would or I probably would not have watched it. seeing the amount of blood was staggering.

And Greg is right, now knowing he died - I went back to watch the incident again, at full speed I thought the offender was upended and that's how his skates wound up near Johnson's throat, but then you can see he jumped skates first at Johnson and then kind of mule kicked while in midair towards Johnson connecting with his throat. I only mention this because maybe knowing he passed made watching the video that much more morbid than Malarchuk who obviously survived.

I think Johnson had both his carotid and jugular severed, and Malarchuk only the carotid (I think).


No matter your position on what should happen to the offender, you can’t help but feel for Johnson’s family, including his father, as I believe I read he was streaming the game from his Minnesota home.

It’s beyond sad/tragic and should never have happened.
RE: .....  
pjcas18 : 11/14/2023 3:11 pm : link
In comment 16289227 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
pj, do you play with a neck guard? I've been debating it after this incident.


No, but they were required for me in high school (all of CT high school hockey players had to wear neck guards) because there was an incident a couple years prior. These things go in cycles.

I don't wear much equipment anymore, my body is in such a state of atrophy that I'm not sure I'm that susceptible to injury. Plus I skate about as slow as an iceberg.

I had assumed this was just a terrible accident.  
BigBlueNH : 11/14/2023 3:12 pm : link
Looking at the play, a manslaughter charge is appropriate. It is typically defined as "recklessly causing the death of another". That play was the definition of reckless. They all know they have VERY sharp blades on the bottom of their skates!
This was the article I was alluding to earlier  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2023 3:35 pm : link
The three former NHL players quoted are Therien, Marc Methot, and Daniel Carcillo. Therien outright calls it intentional, while the other two are slightly more measured but do call it deliberately reckless and dangerous.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: What a horrible story  
Mike from Ohio : 11/14/2023 3:43 pm : link
In comment 16289152 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16288907 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


I have not seen the video and do not want to. Even if the leg whip was intentional, I'm sure the guy who did it is sick about killing someone. I'm sure that was not his intention at all, even though he should have realized how dangerous a skate blade is.



I sure someone who drives drunk and kills someone is sick about it and it wasn't their intention.


To be clear - I am not excusing what he did or suggesting "these things happen." He did something recklessly stupid and should be punished for it.
RE: .....  
Mike from Ohio : 11/14/2023 3:48 pm : link
In comment 16289217 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:

I watched Malarchuk years ago just because I knew he survived. To Greg's point, I can't watch something knowing the guy died.


This is where I am at. Gore doesn't bother me, but watching a guy get killed on the ice is not something I want in my memory. I am curious about it, but I will not watch it because of that.
To everyone who says they dont want to watch it  
cjac : 11/14/2023 4:03 pm : link
I'm going to tell you that I watched it, and I had trouble sleeping that night. Part of the reason it kept me up aside from the horrifying image, is that I did not think at the time that there would be any repercussions for the dirty play.
RE: go to see  
Sec 103 : 11/14/2023 4:27 pm : link
In comment 16288852 jestersdead said:
Quote:
they charged him with something. The clip clearly shows the leg whip is not a typical "hockey move"

Absolutely and he was always a dirty scumbag to boot.
That was a fucked up move
It's a flying kung-fu kick.  
Gruber : 11/14/2023 4:28 pm : link
His only defence is that he was impacted immediately before it and couldn't help himself.
However, if it's true he'd done the same earlier this year, then that becomes very suspicious.

A murder charge in UK law requires a jury to believe that there was an intention to kill. It matters, becuase in murder cases there is a mandatory minimum sentence of life, which actually is about 25 years.
If it's the lesser charge of manslaughter, then the judge has considerable discretion when it comes to sentencing, and can give as little as two years, though usually it's more like fifteen. With good behaviour whilst behind bars, a prisoner can see his sentence reduced by a third to a quarter.
Anyone remember Richard Zednik  
Costy16 : 11/14/2023 4:32 pm : link
When he was on the Panthers?
RE: Anyone remember Richard Zednik  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2023 4:34 pm : link
In comment 16289373 Costy16 said:
Quote:
When he was on the Panthers?


Yes. Zednik bled pretty good but IIRC the artery wasn't completely severed as Malarchuk's was.
RE: To everyone who says they dont want to watch it  
KDavies : 11/14/2023 4:34 pm : link
In comment 16289331 cjac said:
Quote:
I'm going to tell you that I watched it, and I had trouble sleeping that night. Part of the reason it kept me up aside from the horrifying image, is that I did not think at the time that there would be any repercussions for the dirty play.


I hate seeing that crap usually as well. I never look up video of players breaking their legs, etc. No desire to see. But I was interested to see this, not for any sick reason to see blood, but to see the perpetrator's actions and whether it was intentional or not.

I saw the video from Inside Edition, and it was so far away that you couldn't really see much from a gore perspective, but you could see the actions of the perp. I recommend that video for anyone wanting to see it (but not all the gore)
Worst  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2023 4:54 pm : link
video I ever had the misfortune of watching was the Daniel Pearl video. To this day, I still wish I had never seen that. I'm not really into gore and all of that stuff in general but when it's real... awful.
RE: RE: the weird  
LS : 11/14/2023 4:56 pm : link
In comment 16289006 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16288968 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


thing is the guy got a standing ovation last night.



Maybe because he has been allegedly getting death threats. I think he should be held accountable for his actions, but calling for his death is obviously beyond ok (if that actually happened and it probably did).

And (not to take this thread in an unintended direction) as predicted people brought race into it. I watched the video and came away with the conclusion I did and I could not tell you the race of the offender. If you told me he was as white as the whitest person who ever lived i would not question that. But he's not, he's black, so naturally there are people who exploit that and suggest the only reason people feel charges (or any responsibility) is warranted is due to his race. Which is ridiculous to anyone who watches the video.

Actually, they tend to cover up a story where a black man is the aggressor against a white man. Doesn't fit the media narrative.
RE: To everyone who says they dont want to watch it  
bluefin : 11/14/2023 5:32 pm : link
In comment 16289331 cjac said:
Quote:
I'm going to tell you that I watched it, and I had trouble sleeping that night. Part of the reason it kept me up aside from the horrifying image, is that I did not think at the time that there would be any repercussions for the dirty play.

likewise
RE: RE: the weird  
mavric : 11/15/2023 11:08 am : link
In comment 16289060 Costy16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16288968 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


thing is the guy got a standing ovation last night.



I thought that the standing-O was bizarre.

I've been watching hockey my whole life and I've never seen a player's leg come up like that. The scary incidents that have happened in regards to skate cuts have usually been from a guy falling forward and his leg naturally coming up and a guy is right behind him.


That's because hockey players are taught from the day they start (5-yrs old, 7-yrs old, etc.) and throughout their training (including at the professional level) that you consciously NEVER, EVER raise your leg and do whatever it takes to keep the blade of the skate AWAY from another player. The high leg kick was completely out of form, especially for a professional player. Regardless of anyone's take on whether or not it was on purpose, it certainly went against ALL training. As for me, I think he did it on purpose, but didn't expect to kill the guy. He should be out of hockey forever. He has a reputation of anger issues and likes to hurt other players.
I saw the video  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/15/2023 3:15 pm : link
and it looked clear to me it was done on purpose. Really tragic event and if he has a family and especially some young kids I hope there is plenty of support for them. The standing ovation for the player is exceptionally questionable at best imv.

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