Sorry if this has been discussed already, but listening to WFAN this afternoon there was a report that people within the Giants organization still believe in Jones and want to either draft another position or trade the pick even if they're #1 or #2.
Personally, if they think Jones IS the guy, is a real franchise QB and go into year 6 with him on yet another scholarship, I just don't know what to say. If you have a chance to draft a potentially great QB and you pass, sticking with mediocre, frequently injured DJ, who is what he is and is never going to be anything else, this franchise is even more lost and f'd up than anyone could possibly have realized and they deserve to continue the losing culture they've developed.
Daboll flipped the tablet. But he wanted to break it over Jones head.
Jones has to be replaced .
It’s like the guy who keeps divorcing his wives because they are all sterile and can’t give him the child he wants.
It’s like the guy who keeps divorcing his wives because they are all sterile and can’t give him the child he wants.
More like Henry VIII executing his wives because they won’t birth him a son without realizing that HE was the reason they kept having girls. Not drafting a QB with a top 3 pick would be the epitome of shooting one’s self in the foot. Repeatedly.
If you want the true franchise QB you have to take that chance. Regardless of how Jones might do next season he still has that neck situation which could go any time. You have to have the great prospect behind him or you end up like we are today
And a news flash to BBI. ACL injuries are career ending only in your DJ hating dreams. The timing sucks, but everything about the 2023 offensive side of the ball injury history has sucked. One thing about DJ that is for sure - he is not the type to mail his rehab in.
Then you'll be calling MHJ a bust without realizing it's because Jones can't get him the ball
If Giants end up picking outside of the top 3 and aren't in love with any of the other QBs, I'm fine with taking Harrison. Just please please don't extend Jones again if somehow they go 9-8 in 2024 and get the 7 seed.
Taking Trey Lance I'll defend until I die, because we live in the modern NFL. It was an attempt in earnest, with best of intentions, and unfortunately there was some bad luck involved (I still believe Lance could've at least done what Garoppolo did with some potential big play upside).
The Niners were looking to win a Super Bowl, not just be a team that wins deep in January but can't close.
Having Micah Parsons or Jamar Chase or Kyle Pitts or Patrick Surtain or Penei Sewll would have been nice (and no trades needed for Parsons/Surtain), but ultimately added zero Lombardis in Santa Clara. Not even the biggest Niner homer would claim it would've made a difference.
Unfortunately, this is the NFL era we live in.
Get your shiny QB or risk never winning it all.
Now in hindsight, goes to show you those '80s 49ers were much more than just Joe Montana. Without those top 5 defenses, would've won nothing, just like Marino.
Jones will likely start 2024.
It will be his last year with the team.
Rejoicing in the streets for some.
I am sorry the young man has been such an obstacle to your happiness.
I accept the reality and will embrace Jones replacement.
If we use the historic rate of 1st round QBs succeeding, it is likely, that who we draft, will not be as good as Jones.
Statistically speaking.
Even as Jones fan, I would be severely disappointed if we don't draft one of these kids. I don't believe it is possible for this team to FIX THE OL.
We need a QB with plus escapability and plus off schedule play creation.
It is worth going for it.
Become?
So adding Harrison would make the offensive line not matter, but no other QB can perform behind this line?
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Our line wouldn’t matter as much with this cast,
So adding Harrison would make the offensive line not matter, but no other QB can perform behind this line?
Yes an elite WR that can win at every level is a game changer and would mitigate the awful OL. Very hard to operate without a guy like that when your OL sucks. Hyatt and Wandale are nice role players, but they are pretty pretty far from what he is.
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In comment 16290571 Blame It On Rio said:
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Our line wouldn’t matter as much with this cast,
So adding Harrison would make the offensive line not matter, but no other QB can perform behind this line?
Yes an elite WR that can win at every level is a game changer and would mitigate the awful OL. Very hard to operate without a guy like that when your OL sucks. Hyatt and Wandale are nice role players, but they are pretty pretty far from what he is.
An elite WR is dwarfed by a very good QB in terms of wins above replacement. It's not close.
What was probably a round 2-4 selection is now a round 1-2 selection with a higher than anticipated pick. Maybe THE pick.
Peter King said it well: going in, Jones was in the process of convincing Schoen and Dabs he was their 5-year starter; then he played badly and the injuries came.
Schoen structured Jones contract the way he did for a reason. He and Dabs aren't idiots. They saw what many saw: Jones played damn well while not losing games through dumb mistakes. Had he thrown even an average amount of interceptions we don't make the playoffs. Don't underestimate that. Some labelled Jones a coach-killer; in that aspect he's a coach saver.
If Jones equalled last year with some expected 2nd-year-in-system improvement with more chunk plays via better cast, and maintain a low TO rate, he's absolutely a QB you want to keep a long time and worth $40MM to Giants (and at the point everyone else too).
But now that's out the window. We're drafting a QB in 1 or 2 -- maybe a round higher than we would have. And Schoen and Dabs accounted for Jones not being the answer after next season. With the crapathon comes the draft gold. Maybe on balance it all evens out compared with a good season and low draft slot.
Yes an elite WR that can win at every level is a game changer and would mitigate the awful OL. Very hard to operate without a guy like that when your OL sucks. Hyatt and Wandale are nice role players, but they are pretty pretty far from what he is.
That must be why the Raiders and Jets are having such good years
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Yes an elite WR that can win at every level is a game changer and would mitigate the awful OL. Very hard to operate without a guy like that when your OL sucks. Hyatt and Wandale are nice role players, but they are pretty pretty far from what he is.
That must be why the Raiders and Jets are having such good years
Wilson isn’t elite yet.
But you know damn well having an elite WR is a huge factor in great offenses.
An elite WR helps, but it’s nowhere near the impact a QB has on winning.
This
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In comment 16290586 Blame It On Rio said:
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Yes an elite WR that can win at every level is a game changer and would mitigate the awful OL. Very hard to operate without a guy like that when your OL sucks. Hyatt and Wandale are nice role players, but they are pretty pretty far from what he is.
That must be why the Raiders and Jets are having such good years
Wilson isn’t elite yet.
But you know damn well having an elite WR is a huge factor in great offenses.
The only reason why there are any chuckleheads even suggesting that Garrett Wilson isn't elite is his QB play.
And that sort of proves the point.
There’s a lot of elite WRs then. I reserve the elite for the hill’s, chase’s, Jefferson’s of the world.
Matter of opinion I guess.
Not really. I understand his QB is abysmal. And it was last year too. But other WRs have produced with similar circumstances.
Lets look at it this way. Lets look at these WRs:
Olave
Evans
Cooper
Deebo
DJ Moore
Michael Pittman
These guys have produced similar stats over the last two years as Wilson and their QB has had a lot to be desired for as well. Evans may be the only elite one left but he is trending down. And obviously I would take Wilson over many of these WRs but Wilson isnt there yet.
Chase, Jefferson, Hill, Brown, Kupp, Adams, Diggs, Lamb - just a tier better IMO. He's with the Evans, Coopers, Allens , Mewtcalfs of the game.
It’s not even “probably” worse QB play, it is definitely worse QB play. Winston May be a turnover machine, but he can throw TDs, he’s far better than Zach Wilson.
Really?
Wilson: 1100 yards and 4 TDs
Cooper 1160 yards and 9 TDs
Olave: 1040 yards and 4 TDs
Pittman: 925 yards and 4 TDs
Evans: 1120 yards and 6 TDs
Moore: 900 yards and 7 TDs
Seem all pretty equal to me. I dont think the likes of Baker Mayfield, Jacoby Brissett, Jameis Winston/Dalton, the corpse of Matt Ryan/Ehlinger would be consider massive upgrades over anyone....
Hes not as good as the top WRs. Lets just stop the nonsense.
The Bengals, Bills, Dolphins, and Philly amongst others got their QB and then went and added an elite WR. The Texans will likely be looking to do the same this offseason.
Get the QB then go get the pieces, otherwise you’re just spinning your wheels and wasting money.
The Bengals, Bills, Dolphins, and Philly amongst others got their QB and then went and added an elite WR. The Texans will likely be looking to do the same this offseason.
Get the QB then go get the pieces, otherwise you’re just spinning your wheels and wasting money.
Did I say that? I have been a proponent taking Caleb Williams for weeks now. Or if he is gone take Maye. But you still need the elite WR to make it work.
And some of those teams needed that WR to make that QB elite. All that matters is you get both.
That must be why the Raiders and Jets are having such good years
Wilson isn’t elite yet.
But you know damn well having an elite WR is a huge factor in great offenses. [/quote]
Where did I say a WR didn’t matter? A WR isn’t going to make the oline look better if the argument on here is that a top QB wouldn’t even look good behind the line.
Where did I say a WR didn’t matter? A WR isn’t going to make the oline look better if the argument on here is that a top QB wouldn’t even look good behind the line.
I didnt say you didnt either. I dont know which direction you are going in.
Again, I will re-iterate this. IMO, you need a great QB and a stud WR to compete for championships today. And we can argue back and forth what you need first, it doesnt matter cause it doesnt matter.
We are in a position where we dont have either. So if we get one in the draft, we still arent competing for anything until we get the other. So if we miss out on Williams or Maye and we get harrison, and we get the QB next year - thats fine.
Getting a stud WR isnt going to help a guy like Jones become a title contendign QB, and drafting a QB like Williams isnt making us a contender next year anyways. Get the talent at those positions right in the next two years. That should be the focus.