Be careful what you wish for

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JaMarcus Russell Joey Harrington Daniel Jones Sam Darnold Matt Leinart Tim Tebow Josh Rosen Brandon Weeden JP Loseman Brady Quinn Christian Ponder Kyle Boller Vince Young Baker Mayfield Daniel Jones

You missed one.

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The odds of getting this NFL talent level is equal or worse than the odds of getting the next Joe Borrow, no matter where you pick.

the odds of getting Borrow (or Burrow), Herbert, Mahomes, Allen, Stroud, Lamar, etc. even throw in Hurts, Brady, etc (QB's not picked in the 1st round) are remarkably higher at the top of the draft, not "no matter where you pick"

the fact that QB's have a high bust rate does not change the fact that overwhelmingly the best QB's are picked in the 1st round.

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In comment 16289689 christian said:

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Quote: JaMarcus Russell Joey Harrington Daniel Jones Sam Darnold Matt Leinart Tim Tebow Josh Rosen Brandon Weeden JP Loseman Brady Quinn Christian Ponder Kyle Boller Vince Young Baker Mayfield Daniel Jones You missed one.

He has one Jones boy- needs the other

deserves to be in there twice?

how about Marcus Mariotta, EJ Manuel, and Jake Locker

We’re chosen mid to late first round so that list is misleading. This is ridiculous to suggest they shouldn’t draft a QB because there have been many busts before. What do you suggest they do at QB then?

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guarantees success. This is a bullshit strawman.

The higher you pick gives you more opportunity to pick the guy you think is best suited for helping the team. Often, that is QB, and sometimes they don't work out. But the same goes for other high drafted non-QBs. You still have to do all the work of scouting, interviewing, measuring, etc each of which introduces a new set of variables not controlled by draft position.

QB (Jared Goff) was drafted #1 overall. Sure, they got him in a trade, but to trade for him (and more) they sent Matthew Stafford who was drafted...#1 overall.

In comment 16289694 cjac said:

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deserves to be in there twice?

LOL my bad. But maybe?

In comment 16289695 Jay on the Island said:

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We’re chosen mid to late first round so that list is misleading. This is ridiculous to suggest they shouldn’t draft a QB because there have been many busts before. What do you suggest they do at QB then?

Probably need to think about skipping the Draft altogether.

Too many busts.

They were above .500 every year from 2016-2021

Has to be mentioned too, as the NFl was divided between him and Payton Manning.

1st round pick for Buffalo in 2004, there were quite a few who predicted he'd have a better career than Eli.

WR
RB
DE
LB
CB
S
TE
OL

Is that your odds of hitting on a top 10 QB aren't 100%, so if you draft one at say.... 6 and 5 years later it isn't working out you shouldn't have to feel bad about taking another swing at one.

Got it, thanks!

In comment 16289706 BH28 said:

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WR RB DE LB CB S TE OL

Evan Neal

Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Joe Burrow
Matthew Stafford
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Aaron Rodgers
Deshaun Watson
Tua
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan
Andrew Luck
Alex Smith
CJ Stroud
Jared Goff

Eli Apple
Evan Engram
Daniel Jones
Kadarius Toney
Evan Neal

Why start another thread that is essentially the same one?

Same Thread - ( New Window )

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In comment 16289697 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Not at all what I am implying. You can EASILY make things worst by tanking as some here advocate every year.

Niner’s traded up to draft him.

In comment 16289708 Biteymax22 said:

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Is that your odds of hitting on a top 10 QB aren't 100%, so if you draft one at say.... 6 and 5 years later it isn't working out you shouldn't have to feel bad about taking another swing at one. Got it, thanks!

That's one (dumb) interpretation of what I said....

In comment 16289710 Jay on the Island said:

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Peyton Manning Eli Manning Patrick Mahomes Josh Allen Joe Burrow Matthew Stafford Philip Rivers Ben Roethlisberger Lamar Jackson Justin Herbert Aaron Rodgers Deshaun Watson Tua Jay Cutler Matt Ryan Andrew Luck Alex Smith CJ Stroud Jared Goff

Yep and you can do Brad Johnson (free agent signing), Trend Dilfer (free agent signing), etc. etc..... tanking tanks franchises....

In comment 16289689 christian said:

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Quote: JaMarcus Russell Joey Harrington Daniel Jones Sam Darnold Matt Leinart Tim Tebow Josh Rosen Brandon Weeden JP Loseman Brady Quinn Christian Ponder Kyle Boller Vince Young Baker Mayfield Daniel Jones You missed one.

The enthusiasm and haste you use in criticizing Daniel has caused you to be careless, read the list again

Remember when Eli, Rothlisberger, Rivers were top picks?

I would say all three teams were rewarded handsomely with strong QB play and multiple SB's for the Giants and Steelers.

I think it is incumbent on Schoen, Dabol and the scouts to pick the best possible college QB destined for pro success. It isn't that hard to see some top qualities in this crop of college QB's.......seeing the whole field, athleticism, leadership, ability to put his team on his back at times, winning close games with last minute or two minute drives when the pressure is most intense. I am sure I am missing some.

Ernie Accorsi said in his book that he scouted and ultimately chose Eli because of the number of times while in the stadium, he saw Eli lead Ole Miss down the field to win close games at the end.

regardless of how utterly stupid they are.

"A QB can bust, therefore you should never draft one because he may be bad. You should pick something like a RT high because they are safe picks that don't bust."

Oh, Hi Ereck Flowers! Sorry, didn't see you there, Evan Neal!

If you don't trust your GM and scouts to be able to select a QB and develop him, then you should fire them, not avoid drafting a QB.

The draft is not a random draw where "odds" and "percentages" dictate decisions. You have access to information to make informed decisions, and you can influence the success or failure of the pick when you coach him.

In comment 16289720 4xchamps said:

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In comment 16289708 Biteymax22 said: Quote: Is that your odds of hitting on a top 10 QB aren't 100%, so if you draft one at say.... 6 and 5 years later it isn't working out you shouldn't have to feel bad about taking another swing at one. Got it, thanks! That's one (dumb) interpretation of what I said....

Maybe you can clean that up in your next attempt at starting basically the same thread every few days.

Does Friday work for you?

In comment 16289717 4xchamps said:

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In comment 16289697 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Not at all what I am implying. You can EASILY make things worst by tanking as some here advocate every year.

Tim, you and your uncles have been making things worse for a decade.

Step away from the computer and go enjoy your trust fund. The team will only improve when your fingerprints are wiped clean from the roster.

I'm sure Schoen and scouts are doing their hardest work on Maye and Williams and they'll decide on who is the best fit for long term franchise QB success

I like Maye's demeanor and overall vibe. Williams is a swing for the fence but the ultimate question is can he handle the scrutiny.

board you draft him. Even if you have prime Tom Brady on your roster. The only exception is if you can get a great haul of picks instead. Between salaries and trades it is clear that QBs are worth a multiple more than any other player on the field. There have never been 32 franchise level QBs in the league at the same time.

Assume the Giants pick #1. Question is simple. Do they think any QB is franchise worthy in this draft. Then draft him. Or trade the pick for a massive haul and run with DJ. And I suspect the appetite for the latter is zero.

We may end up in QB hell. But that is the risk you take.

In comment 16289732 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 16289717 4xchamps said: Quote: In comment 16289697 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Not at all what I am implying. You can EASILY make things worst by tanking as some here advocate every year. Tim, you and your uncles have been making things worse for a decade. Step away from the computer and go enjoy your trust fund. The team will only improve when your fingerprints are wiped clean from the roster.

Director of Player Personnel - Tim McDonnell ?

This exists for every position in every sport.

What’s the alternative to finding a good quarterback? Keep paying Daniel Jones 20 % of the cap and pray the magically shows he’s a good QB in his 6th or 7th season? Something he hasn’t consistently shown his entire nfl and college career?

so what you are really saying is you dont trust Schoen, Tanking absolutely works, especially when you need a QB..

You can say well players bust, no shit, players bust no matter where you pick

In comment 16289726 GiantBlue said:

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Remember when Eli, Rothlisberger, Rivers were top picks? I would say all three teams were rewarded handsomely with strong QB play and multiple SB's for the Giants and Steelers. I think it is incumbent on Schoen, Dabol and the scouts to pick the best possible college QB destined for pro success. It isn't that hard to see some top qualities in this crop of college QB's.......seeing the whole field, athleticism, leadership, ability to put his team on his back at times, winning close games with last minute or two minute drives when the pressure is most intense. I am sure I am missing some. Ernie Accorsi said in his book that he scouted and ultimately chose Eli because of the number of times while in the stadium, he saw Eli lead Ole Miss down the field to win close games at the end.

I'll see that and raise you, remember when Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield were the consensus next big QB draft?

cancel all contracts, fold the team and rent the stadium.

FWIW, I think just about any of the top 10 QBs will do better than Jones.

QBs are so desirable and coveted that they are often overdrafted. There are years where the QB class is not strong and some QBs are drafted based upon hope and potential.

What I have found is that there are a few QBs who come along who have achieved and maintained excellence and are universally acknowledged as franchise QBs.

It is fortunate that this year there are two QBs who fit this description.Both would be a first three draft pick in any year.

I would not subscribe to tanking if not for Williams and Maye. They change the dynamics. The last QB who had this type of fanfare was Lawrence and you can see what he has done for Jacksonville.

is ridiculous. Football is no place to operate with fear, get the new QB!

another injury with Jones and his cost goes up significantly.

With the potential position in the draft the Giants will have and with the quality of some of the QB's coming out it seems a good decision to take a QB.

The whole coaching staff should be part of the evaluation for the remainder of the season to make sure the right people are part of this decision imv.

Ernie sure nailed his evaluation of Eli. Two big points he made sure played out.
1. He takes hits and keeps getting up.
2. The "It" factor.

In comment 16289717 4xchamps said:

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In comment 16289697 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Not at all what I am implying. You can EASILY make things worst by tanking as some here advocate every year.

What can happen as a result of tanking that hasn't already happened in this 10+ year run of "you can compete and rebuild at the same time" which has accomplished neither?

Just can’t help yourselves. It really is mental illness.

In comment 16289781 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 16289717 4xchamps said: Quote: In comment 16289697 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Not at all what I am implying. You can EASILY make things worst by tanking as some here advocate every year. What can happen as a result of tanking that hasn't already happened in this 10+ year run of "you can compete and rebuild at the same time" which has accomplished neither?

Exactly. The Giants have one of the worst records in the NFL since 2016, and they’ve been trying.

How the Giants tanked in 03 and then drafted Eli Manning and went on to win 2 SBs, i guess that doesnt fit your narrative?

Yes, there is a bust rate with 1st round QB’s, newsflash, there’s a bust rate at any position. Sure it is higher at QB, but that is because it is the most important position on the field, which is an argument for doing the exact opposite of what the OP wants.

The arguments for rolling with DJ have gone from absurd to certifiable.

In comment 16289703 ajr2456 said:

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They were above .500 every year from 2016-2021

In was going to say the same thing

In comment 16289722 4xchamps said:

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Yep and you can do Brad Johnson (free agent signing), Trend Dilfer (free agent signing), etc. etc..... tanking tanks franchises....

What round was Trent Dilfer drafted in again?