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We are in Midst of Historic Giants Decade

M.S. : 11/16/2023 8:10 am

The New York Giants NFL franchise started off with a bang stringing together its two best decades ever with winning percentages of .680 (1925-1934) and .693 (1935-1944.)

Baby Boomers are all too familiar with two of the worst decades 1965-1974 and 1975-1984, and now we are all witness to what is shaping up to be the worst decade ever: 2015 - Present.

But there's hope. If the Giants can just go 11 - 13 from now until the end of the next season, the current decade will squeak past 1975 - 1984 with a winning percentage of .374:

Wins / Losses / Ties / Win Pct

1925 -1934
87/ 41/ 8/ 0.680

1935 -1944
70/ 31/ 9/ 0.693

1945 -1954
58/ 54/ 5/ 0.518

1955 -1964
81/ 40/ 7/ 0.669

1965 -1974/
53/ 85/ 2/ 0.384

1975 -1984
54/ 92/ 1/ 0.370

1985 -1994
99/ 60/ 0/ 0.623

1995 -2004
75/ 84/ 1/ 0.472

2005 -2014
90/ 70/ 0/ 0.563

2015 -Present
50/ 89/ 1/ 0.360
thank you Eeyore  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/16/2023 8:14 am : link
.
I mean this is a legit post  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 11/16/2023 8:37 am : link
I love our Giants community and I love the history of the franchise. But the losing this last decade (historic level of losing) has sapped pretty much any enjoyment I get from watching the Giants or football in general.

Staring the at numbers like this I think reminds some who would otherwise call fans 'debbie downers' or what have you that it's entirely understandable to be this discouraged and hopeless regarding the New York Giants. It's tough to take. It really is.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/16/2023 8:50 am : link
Just a decade of pure and utter incompetence.
Oh, this is clearly  
section125 : 11/16/2023 8:52 am : link
1965 to 1981 bad.
Hmm we ain’t going  
Dave on the UWS : 11/16/2023 9:27 am : link
11-13 over the next 24. Just sayin’
RE: Oh, this is clearly  
M.S. : 11/16/2023 9:29 am : link
In comment 16290883 section125 said:
Quote:
1965 to 1981 bad.


You're real close -- just shift back one year:

1965-1981 (17 Seasons)
91 Wins
153 Losses
2 Ties
.373 Win Pct

1964-1980 (17 Seasons)
84 Wins
156 Losses
4 Ties
.350 Win Pct
Thanks MS  
Rick in Dallas : 11/16/2023 9:29 am : link
We have indeed been awful
When you make historically poor choices  
jinkies : 11/16/2023 9:32 am : link
like taking half a decade to evaluate a bad QB and handing out egregiously bad contracts, you can expect historically poor performance. These things are connected. Causality is a bitch. As some on here are fond of saying, this isn't that hard.
Previous Decade  
Rico : 11/16/2023 9:34 am : link
I think it's interesting that in our previous decade, where we won 2 out of 10 Super Bowls, we only had a 56% winning percentage. Even when we're good, we're not that good!
RE: Hmm we ain’t going  
M.S. : 11/16/2023 9:36 am : link
In comment 16290931 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
11-13 over the next 24. Just sayin’

Based on current assumptions for rest of this season, 11-13 will be quite a challenge:

(1) Would need to go 11-6 next season with no more wins this season.
(2) Would need to go 10-7 next season with 1 more win this season.
(3) Would need to go 9-8 next season with 2 more wins this season.
(4) Would need to go 8-9 next season with 3 more wins this season.

RE: Previous Decade  
section125 : 11/16/2023 9:36 am : link
In comment 16290947 Rico said:
Quote:
I think it's interesting that in our previous decade, where we won 2 out of 10 Super Bowls, we only had a 56% winning percentage. Even when we're good, we're not that good!


Bingo. 10-6 and 9-7....
RE: Previous Decade  
M.S. : 11/16/2023 9:39 am : link
In comment 16290947 Rico said:
Quote:
I think it's interesting that in our previous decade, where we won 2 out of 10 Super Bowls, we only had a 56% winning percentage. Even when we're good, we're not that good!

Good point! It all came down to the post-season: the Giants were "real good" when it counted most!
RE: RE: Previous Decade  
section125 : 11/16/2023 9:41 am : link
In comment 16290953 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16290947 Rico said:


Quote:


I think it's interesting that in our previous decade, where we won 2 out of 10 Super Bowls, we only had a 56% winning percentage. Even when we're good, we're not that good!


Good point! It all came down to the post-season: the Giants were "real good" when it counted most!


And even when they were really good in season, they managed to shoot themselves in the foot, er leg....
Fuck me  
BlueHurricane : 11/16/2023 10:04 am : link
.
RE: Oh, this is clearly  
joeinpa : 11/16/2023 10:05 am : link
In comment 16290883 section125 said:
Quote:
1965 to 1981 bad.


I consider 1981 as one of my favorite Giants season, not sure it should be included in the abyss of losing

Making playoffs after and beating Philly in Philly. Rob Carpenter baby!
Dman, I knew it's been bad  
truebluelarry : 11/16/2023 10:07 am : link
but I hadn't realized it's been THAT bad.

How depressing is it that a modest "goal" of 11-13 seems impossible to achieve!

The glory years of Eli & Coughlin seem so long ago already.
RE: RE: RE: Previous Decade  
Rico : 11/16/2023 10:15 am : link
In comment 16290956 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16290953 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 16290947 Rico said:


Quote:


I think it's interesting that in our previous decade, where we won 2 out of 10 Super Bowls, we only had a 56% winning percentage. Even when we're good, we're not that good!


Good point! It all came down to the post-season: the Giants were "real good" when it counted most!



And even when they were really good in season, they managed to shoot themselves in the foot, er leg....


Hahaha, that's true! The one season we dominated in season, we managed to screw it up!
Yeesh  
Spider43 : 11/16/2023 10:22 am : link
Worst decade eva' (since inception). Thanks, Getts.
...  
christian : 11/16/2023 10:33 am : link
The end of the 2015 season marks the beginning of this era for me.

The Giants should have cleaned house in management and coaching, and stopped giving Manning the benefit of the doubt.
WOW  
Shecky : 11/16/2023 10:36 am : link
Knew it was bad, and for a long time. But man, this really puts it in perspective.

1965 - 1974 and 2015 - the present have one key thing in common  
arniefez : 11/16/2023 10:55 am : link
Mara rule with no guard rails. George Young and Ernie Accorsi guard rails when they were the GMs. Neither one of them had to contend with next generation Mara's though. I think Ernie quit when he saw what was coming.

I was listening to the Giants Insider this morning and Chris B was doubling down on the Papa and Banks nonsense from the other day defending John Mara and Chris Mara and dismissing anyone who thinks they are telling the GM who to sign or draft.

He told a story about how John Mara questioned Gettleman about picking Toney and asked him are you sure the is the guy you want? He repeated it twice maybe three times, claiming someone who was in the draft room told him that. He completely dismissed as ludicrous that John or Chris Mara is telling the GM who to draft in the draft room. He said the people who say things like have never even been in the "building".

If anyone is the mood to help, please refresh my memory, wasn't it reported that Judge pushed for Toney and that Gettleman appeared on camera in the draft room to be unhappy with the pick? Not that it matters. I only bring it up in relation to the story Chris B told.

He also said there are a lot of people who wish Chris Mara was more involved and was telling the GM who to draft. I think it was Jerry who said Parcells wanted Chris Mara with him in Dallas. Think about that how would that work?

I'll tell you one anecdotal story from my Giants fan experience. I traveled the US for work for about 40 years. I was very fortunate that I could pretty much make my own schedule when it came to when and where I was going. In the 80's I had the means, motive and opportunity to see a lot of Giants games on the road. I had a friend who was connected and even though he didn't travel with me he had access to the information for where the Giants would be staying in each city.

We're talking about the 80's - no internet, no email, no smart phones. Travel security and hotel access were not restricted anywhere near the level they are today. I did not bother anyone in the Giants travel party ever. No players, no coaches, certainly no Mara's. No autograph seeking and I stayed out the hotel bar. But I had complete access to everything that went on in the lobby.

When I say complete access, this is what I mean. I'm sure all of you have been in hotel lobbies with lots of chairs and couches scattered around and coffee/drink tables in between them. I'm not a great writer but try and picture this.

There's two of those big hotel lobby chairs on one side of a coffee table and a three-person coach on the other side facing them. Within 10 yards there are several more chairs and other couches. It's a Saturday afternoon and I am in the lobby in one of the chairs a few yards away from that setup. In the two chairs are Pat Summerall and John Madden. For the next hour or two rotating through the couch like talk show guests one at a time in this order will be George Young, Bill Parcells and Phil Simms.

There are no cameras, no recorders just conversation about the game tomorrow and the league in general. General conversations for background to add to the story for the game the next day. Summerall and Madden had two guys with them. I think one was a producer and the other their driver. They were sitting on the opposite side of us. No one took notes. It was just conversation. I'm with my boss, more mentor than boss at that point, and we're sitting a few yards away no one asked us to move or leave. There were maybe two or three other people watching and listening, nothing close to a crowd. No visible security at all. Can you imagine that today?

If you're still reading, I'm going somewhere with this. The conversation breaks up and its dinner time. The Giants are going to be having a team dinner in the ballroom of the hotel. It's setup like a wedding reception for 100 people. I peeked in. We decided we would wait in the lobby to watch everyone go in for dinner and then we'd go out for dinner. Mark Bavaro has his parents with him. For the most part it's just the players and the team execs. At this point I haven't made a Mara spotting. Not that I was looking for one. But I've seen almost all of the players that we all can name that won the two Parcells Super Bowls. Except one. We leave and go to dinner.

After dinner the hotel lobby is pretty empty, the hotel bar is not, I never once went into the hotel bar the night before a game. I had been out drinking with NFL players a few times and I was pair of brown shoes in a room full of black tuxedos. It wasn't for me.

Sunday morning, I get up and head to the lobby to see the team buses fill up and leave for the Stadium. Maybe 4 buses total? A lot of players and most of the coaches leave on the first bus. At that point I see the Mara family headed toward the buses, all dressed in what looks like fashion icon, top shelf Brooks Brothers sack suits arrive, and they begin to hold court with whoever is around the area. If you know anything about Brooks Brothers at that time sack suits is a compliment not an insult.

I know this is way too long and only a few people will read it, but I feel like telling the story after listening to that podcast today and since I think this is best place to tell and supposedly certain people read this sight, I'm doing it here. It's winter in cold part of the country but it's not really that cold. The Mara family is hanging out together in the front of the buses with George Young and I think a few other front office suits I didn't know.

Before this day I couldn't pick Chris Mara out of a line up. Now more than 35 years later I'm often told that Chris Mara made his bones being a "scout" when Bill Parcells was head coach. Every time I hear about how "qualified" Chris Mara is I vividly recall this, seared into my memory, morning and I don't believe a word of it.

A few yards from where I'm standing is a guy that looks about my age. He's got very light blond hair styled like a Brooks Brothers model from the time. He's wearing a double breasted navy blue blazer with gold buttons, a blue button down collar shirt, khaki pants, a red rep tie and brown penny loafers. He literally looks like he stepped out of the Brooks Brothers catalog. He also is wearing gold, thin rimmed, round glasses, John Lennon style but much bigger lenses. He's attached to Wellington Mara's hip. If you wanted to cast the son of the owner in a football movie, he'd be your guy. He's good looking and confident. Show me an example of another "scout" who travels with the owner to games and is in line to inherit the team.

If you've ever traveled for a living, you know that being a football scout in the 80's would have required a lot of grinding, flying and driving 100’s of miles every week during the football season. A lot of the work would be done on the weekends. But there would also be a lot of background work that would be done during the week at practices and talking to coaches. No one will ever convince me that Chris Mara worked as a scout for the Giants. He has always been ownership period. That doesn't mean he doesn't know football or how to evaluate players. He's talked about how much influence he’s had on the Giants player personnel department. Is there a title for owner/scout? In 2023 he is what his record says he is.

The Mara family gets on a bus and sits in the first row, Chris next to Wellington. I wait until the last bus leaves, go back into the hotel eat breakfast and check out.

The Giants play well and win the game. It's the first of many great road trips I get to go on in that era.

One last note. About 15 minutes before the last bus leaves a black limo pulls up behind it. Out of it comes the one player I didn't see on Saturday and another guy I didn't know. The player has on black sunglasses and long black coat. He's got a drink in hands that I guessed was coffee. It was in that type of a to go cup/glass. But who knows what was in it. He gets on the last bus. The other guy gets back in the limo. He played great in the game.
Neat story, Arnie  
Spider43 : 11/16/2023 11:02 am : link
Thanks for sharing.
RE: RE: Oh, this is clearly  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/16/2023 11:05 am : link
In comment 16290997 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16290883 section125 said:


Quote:


1965 to 1981 bad.



I consider 1981 as one of my favorite Giants season, not sure it should be included in the abyss of losing

Making playoffs after and beating Philly in Philly. Rob Carpenter baby!
yes we finally got a running game. Mark Dennis fumble recovery for a TD
Great story Arnie  
truebluelarry : 11/16/2023 11:15 am : link
I read the whole thing. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
Arnie  
Go Terps : 11/16/2023 11:59 am : link
Great story. Thanks for posting.
Arnie  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/16/2023 12:11 pm : link
that is a great story.

My dad worked for years with Stephen Mara on the floor of the NYSE.

The same guy who went after an Eagles fan on the floor in 2006 and choked him out.
Arnie, that was fantastic  
Sean : 11/16/2023 12:15 pm : link
.
Additionally, in most of these brutal seasons  
Mike in Long Beach : 11/16/2023 12:26 pm : link
It's not like we're starting off 5-6 and the wheels are falling off later on for 6-10/6-11 seasons. Right out of the gate we're sitting at 1-5 most of the time and the season is over before Halloween. So we're not getting anything to be excited about, even early on.
Arnie  
jinkies : 11/16/2023 12:49 pm : link
I love how you say you're not a great writer, but then proceed to hold back information to pay off later and drop clues to further the climax in a way only an excellent writer would do.

RE: I mean this is a legit post  
Mayo2JZ : 11/16/2023 1:12 pm : link
In comment 16290869 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
I love our Giants community and I love the history of the franchise. But the losing this last decade (historic level of losing) has sapped pretty much any enjoyment I get from watching the Giants or football in general.

Staring the at numbers like this I think reminds some who would otherwise call fans 'debbie downers' or what have you that it's entirely understandable to be this discouraged and hopeless regarding the New York Giants. It's tough to take. It really is.


It just pisses me off when people boast about our 4 SBs but when your team loses in historic fashion for decades it means absolutely nothing. Just so tired of being non competitive. They’re just not fun to watch and the ineptitude of the organization is downright pathetic
Hasn't been enjoyable  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/16/2023 3:33 pm : link
They were in the great destruction of the LOS by 2013 and it has been mostly a struggle since.

Reese wasting the back end of Eli's career made it worse. If the 2012-17 years were much better I think a few down years would be easier to deal with. Hard enough finding a good QB let alone a future HOF one and not putting a good enough team around him was a shame.

Dave did little to correct it and now it is up to Schoen.

When order is restored on the fronts things will get better.



I've been blackpilled on the org, we are the new Lions or Browns  
Blame It On Rio : 11/16/2023 6:53 pm : link
until we are not.

I'm younger, but I know the histroy of the team. And the history is that the Maras ran such a shitshow, the NFL had to step in, and essentially force the Giants Way on us, which led to 4 SBs. That era died with DG and slowly failed more each step.

I don't believe in all the conspiracy theories on Mara forcing players and meddling on coaches and GM. Personally I think its cope to make themselves feel better about the current situation whoever is coach or GM.

That being said, we need this man, who has really never accomplished anything other than being born to the right family, who come from a bookie who bought an NFL team when they were dirt cheap because nobody cared about the pro game at the time and just went along for the ride essentially.

Really the ultimate luck story. And now we have to rely on him to identify the next GM and HC and know if he's makign the right decision or not. At the end of the day, I don't think Mara meddles that much, but he still needs to hire the right people and foster the right environment because the buck stops there. I'd rather just have them prove me wrong on this front, than the opposite at this point, since theres no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt when accosted with the evidence.
My childhood was the 1968-80 teams,  
BigBlueNH : 11/16/2023 11:09 pm : link
my ages 8-20. Lotta pain, lotta really bad offenses. Never sniffed a playoff game.
Arnie's story (great btw)  
PA Aggie : 11/17/2023 7:45 am : link
Details his impression of Chris, as a scout, and he visually didn't fit the stereotype we know or imagine.

If he truly is a poser (I do believe that even before Arnie's story), then there is no wonder our draft evaluations and eventual selections are some of the worst in the league. We have passed on so many great players in the last ten years, several sure-shots for the HOF. Way too many early round busts selected. I know it is not an easy thing to do, knowing when a player is going to peak, but we are really bad at it.

Sad. Just sad.
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