This is from the podcast today linked below (discussion starts at the 16:50 minute mark). Bobby Skinner said he heard that John Mara believes Schoen picked his QB when they gave Jones $160M. This is likely why some of these stories have come out (Vachhiano) and Banks/Papa on twitter defending Jones.
This is really where this contract is a disaster if this is the view from ownership. Schoen & Daboll have 4 months to convince Mara otherwise (I think they will).
But, Skinner made a good point - Jones will be in the building rehabbing and working hard. I'm sure ownership will eat that up.
Link - (
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In comment 16292571 ajr2456 said:
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
"Tough stretch"???
A decade of shitty football is a tough stretch?
And if the Giants pass on a top QB to bring back Daniel Jones than any sane fan has every right to be pissed and/or leave as a fan.
Why should any fan support such a shitty product that isn't entertaining?
And you're not just supporting the team. You're supporting the Maras who seem like nepotism-obsessed ignoramuses.
This idea of gatekeeping fandom is asinine, juvenile, and repleat with insecurity.
Sorry bout your small dicks, bros.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
And guess what, there’s nothing you can do if they do come crawling back.
I doubt anyone actually means they’ll stop being Giants fans, but stopping investing their time into Giants football until things turn around is perfectly reasonable given the past decade.
I’m never giving up my season tickets, but I sure as hell didn’t waste my time going to games this year. And probably won’t next year if they do decide to run it back with Jones.
That said, my enthusiasm has ebbed to the point that I have only watched a couple of games from beginning to end this year. What's worse is that my son is 15 and has rarely seen the Giants be anything other than a laughingstock. He's still a fan but he has come to expect the worst from them, and why shouldn't he? They have defined the term "bottom feeder" for most of his life.
I'll never jump ship to another team, but I certainly do lose interest in this one. When I was a teenager, Knicks basketball gripped me just as much, if not more, than baseball and football. Then the Knicks went into the toilet for more than two decades and today I'm still only moderately following them. I'm close to going the same way wth the Giants.
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In comment 16292449 Sean said:
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In comment 16292446 UberAlias said:
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a couple games. I know many don't see that as even a possibility, but it absolutely could happen if we get some early momentum against the right team (Commanders, GB, NE). And Philly will tank it on us too if they have nothing to play for. As frustrating as this conversation is, I pray we're still having it when the season is over because that means we have a (top 2 - 3) pick worth the discussion.
The Giants need a QB. That doesn't change if they pick 3rd, so it still does matter. Jayden Daniels is very interesting. Sy has included him in the top tier thus far.
It matters at some point for sure. Picking a QB for the sake of picking a QB is exactly how we found ourselves in this mess to begin with and needs to be avoided at all costs. Worse that sticking with Jones is doubling down by reaching on a future QB bust.
Busting on a QB pick isn't that damaging since the CBA to introduce the rookie wage scale. Take Bryce Young as an example. Young's dead cap money in year three is a little over $22M...that is about as much as what everyone is considering an "out" in Jones's contract in '25. You can move on pretty fast from even the first pick overall.
The danger is in doing exactly what the Giants have done... self-imposed QB hell.
I don't agree. It's not as bad as it was pre CBA, but still a huge setback. Your theory is far too optimistic and you are only looking at financial implications. It is not always so clear cut that the guys is not the answer or is it not black and white? What has the team has invested in building around him? Teams picking at the top of draft are bad teams. Bad teams don't get better with poor QB play, so often we're looking at casualties in coaching continuity. There are opportunity losses, such as what else could you have done with the top 5 pick --addressed another major need? And when you do finally concede to moving on --will you be in the same position to draft a top QB prospect? You may not have a similar high pick at that point and the real good ones don't come every year, so what then? And when you finally do get your guy, it takes time --they are rookies, they have a lot to learn. Often even with very talented guys, we're not always talking about an overnight turn around.
Then you factor in 2 neck injuries and an ACL…it’s a no brainer. It would be baffling if they passed in a generational talent to double down on this bad contract they gave Jones.
Being a nice guy doesn’t win you games and it doesn’t sell tickets either
For me, what has made the last handful of years difficult is really the self-inflicted wounds from the front office decisions and roster building. You can literally see them happening and you just want to tell them to "Stop...that's a mistake."
But you can't and you are left hoping every Sunday they can overcome them somehow. And in an outlier year like 2022 they were able to, but those big flaws always keep coming back.
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In comment 16292571 ajr2456 said:
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
"Tough stretch"???
A decade of shitty football is a tough stretch?
And if the Giants pass on a top QB to bring back Daniel Jones than any sane fan has every right to be pissed and/or leave as a fan.
Why should any fan support such a shitty product that isn't entertaining?
The groupthink as a fan base this season is strong. When is the last time the Lions won a playoff game?
Luck isn't much of a factor in the NFL, you either know how to win or you don't.
This season the NYG were absolutely not prepared on any level. Not sure why, but, it was obvious from game 1.
It seems like no changes were made to correct the course.
Dabs needs to be in this conversation too. This season has been a failure from top to bottom.
This isn't a call to fire anyone, but it would be interesting to hear from a third party audit of what the difference between last year and this year was in terms of preparation and personnel decision making.
You could spend a week pointing out all of the logical fallacies he posts over and over. Despite being wrong over and over again, he will not stop following other posters around trying to prove what a great fan he is because he agrees with everything the Giants do.
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...defensively is a bit overblown IMO.
They were a playoff team, and hosted a playoff game. Sure they were flawed and the Giants took advantage of that.
From a team perspective, it was a tremendous win, esp since the team had not won a playoff game since 2011.
Heck, if we are going to call them a JV defense maybe it was an equal battle, with the Giants JV offense (as we have found out this year) lol
Sure the Eagles whipped us but the Eagles last year were a matchup nightmare for what we were putting out there.
It’s not overblown. They were an atrocious defense and one of the worst to ever make the playoffs. The stats on that subject are not debatable.
The games agains the Vikings last season were a mirage.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
This post, I think, sums up so much about the way that you view this team, the way you view this board, the way you view other fans.
No one is keeping score of diehardedness. Many of the fans that are talking about growing apathetic have been fans since long before you were even born. You have no concept of what their real-life priorities are or should be, and have no right to tell them where to place the Giants among those priorities when the team leads the fucking league in unforced errors for the past decade, both on the field and in the front office.
For some reason, you seem to think that loyalty is defined by continuing to support every single move and decision this team makes, and I would argue that that's a very narrow and simplistic way to view it. And I would go a step further to say that ultimately continuing to support the franchise with just as much fervor in spite of their constant ineptitude is like taking your buddy out for drinks to be there for him after his family tries to stage an intervention about his drinking problem.
People aren't talking about turning their back on the Giants because they are less loyal than you, although I know you do believe that to be the case. They're talking about turning their back on the Giants because it's the only fucking thing John Mara ever notices in the first place.
Ultimately, those that are talking about tuning in less, going less, spending less, paying less attention, it's all because of how badly they do want the Giants to do better. They've just run out of ways to reconcile putting the other parts of their lives behind the Giants when they consider their priorities.
Just do us all a favor and don't act like you're a bigger fan just because you don't have a million other priorities banging at the door in your life right now.
'Being a good fan means turning your brain off and supporting everything they do' is laughable.
For me, at the stadium, belligerent and drunk fans can ruin the experience for others.
Bad fan.
On BBI
It is people who are more concerned with their opinion than the well being of the Giants.
Someone who says the Giants will never win anything with Jones and that the general manager definitely doesn't want them because they don't pick his 5th year.
That is perfectly fine and we just disagree.
Then Jones wins 9 games with a terrible team and wins a playoff game playing historically well.
THE FAN THAT DISAPPEARS FOR THE GOOD TIMES BECAUSE IT DIDNT CONFIRM HIS NARASTIVE ONLY TO RETURN WHEN THE DUMPSTER FIRE STARTS IN ORDER TO GLOAT.
That, is a very, very, very small amount of BBI and the only kind of people I consider bad fans. I can politely disagree decades.
Not a fan of trolls.
For me, at the stadium, belligerent and drunk fans can ruin the experience for others.
Bad fan.
On BBI
It is people who are more concerned with their opinion than the well being of the Giants.
Someone who says the Giants will never win anything with Jones and that the general manager definitely doesn't want them because they don't pick his 5th year.
That is perfectly fine and we just disagree.
Then Jones wins 9 games with a terrible team and wins a playoff game playing historically well.
THE FAN THAT DISAPPEARS FOR THE GOOD TIMES BECAUSE IT DIDNT CONFIRM HIS NARASTIVE ONLY TO RETURN WHEN THE DUMPSTER FIRE STARTS IN ORDER TO GLOAT.
That, is a very, very, very small amount of BBI and the only kind of people I consider bad fans. I can politely disagree decades.
Not a fan of trolls.
Jones is a bad QB. Always has been. A simplified game plan and bad opponents led to some good fortune last season, and masked his deficiencies. I am happy for you that you enjoyed it, but his 2023 performance shows what he is.
But, if someone started a thread today and said they were jumping ship to the Eagles because of how well run they were, I'd assume just about every comment would be saying, "good riddance".
This idea of gatekeeping fandom is asinine, juvenile, and repleat with insecurity.
Sorry bout your small dicks, bros.
Logman - your username attached to this quote brought some much needed levity to me, at least.
Sean also don’t forget that crazy clown who was rooting for the Eagles vs the Jets.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
Do they have to pay more for a ticket?
Swear an oath of allegiance before watching again?
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What is that?
For me, at the stadium, belligerent and drunk fans can ruin the experience for others.
Bad fan.
On BBI
It is people who are more concerned with their opinion than the well being of the Giants.
Someone who says the Giants will never win anything with Jones and that the general manager definitely doesn't want them because they don't pick his 5th year.
That is perfectly fine and we just disagree.
Then Jones wins 9 games with a terrible team and wins a playoff game playing historically well.
THE FAN THAT DISAPPEARS FOR THE GOOD TIMES BECAUSE IT DIDNT CONFIRM HIS NARASTIVE ONLY TO RETURN WHEN THE DUMPSTER FIRE STARTS IN ORDER TO GLOAT.
That, is a very, very, very small amount of BBI and the only kind of people I consider bad fans. I can politely disagree decades.
Not a fan of trolls.
Jones is a bad QB. Always has been. A simplified game plan and bad opponents led to some good fortune last season, and masked his deficiencies. I am happy for you that you enjoyed it, but his 2023 performance shows what he is.
Not nearly as bad as you think he is, pretty certain Schoen and Dabol and Eli, agree with me on that take
I've made great friends over the years with people on this site with whom I've vehemently disagreed.
Unsolicited advice to anyone who cares why someone took a break -- get over yourself.
Just fuck off man. Seriously.!
We’ve had a shitty follow up year in year 2 of this regime. Not gonna sit here and cry about it on a daily basis because everyone is injured and playing poorly.
Congrats, Ryan. Good news.
Just fuck off man. Seriously.!
Can’t imagine how cranky you’re going to be when you haven’t slept for a month. You’re also about to find out how easy it is to find something else to occupy your time every Sunday.
Fair. But once years ago I got morning drunk with Lono. That was friend-ish.
Those are your words not mine. I ve seen enough good to like him as a quarterback
Just fuck off man. Seriously.!
You make your own priorities. So does everyone else. That's the point.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you really not understand the point?
He sucked this season even before he got injured. That's just a fact.
We'd be insane IMO-considering his overall play & injury history-to pass on a QB next spring if we're in position to draft one high.
If we go into next season rewinding it back with Jones & again hoping if we add something here or there, it'll click...we're idiots.
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Those are your words not mine. I ve seen enough good to like him as a quarterback
I find that to be unusual because there isn't a lot of good to have seen. I think the standard has been so low over the past 8 years that viewer's calibrations are off.
He sucked this season even before he got injured. That's just a fact.
We'd be insane IMO-considering his overall play & injury history-to pass on a QB next spring if we're in position to draft one high.
If we go into next season rewinding it back with Jones & again hoping if we add something here or there, it'll click...we're idiots.
The Giants might not have closed the door on Jones, but they will not ignore that this position just because of the health history of both quarterbacks on the roster is an area of need
The only question to be determined is where will they draft and will the value be there at that position
Just fuck off man. Seriously.!
Congrats to you and the Mrs., seriously.
That said, I'll laugh at how annoyed you'll be if your kid is born on my birthday. Sounds like it might be in play.
Jones is a bad QB. Always has been.
Well, that's just a stupid take. But given your narrative, I'm not surprised.
There is no way a rational person can conclude that Jones was "bad" in 2022. None. There is also no way a rational way anyone can conclude that Jones was "bad" in his rookie year. Period. Was there areas of improvement? For sure - the TO's were terrible. But considering he was a rookie, it was a good season.
And let's not forget that his middle two years were "managed" by Judge and Garrett. The entire team was horrific, from the HC/OC (and DC) all way down the org.
But go on with your narrative, without the facts...
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Jones is a bad QB. Always has been.
Well, that's just a stupid take. But given your narrative, I'm not surprised.
There is no way a rational person can conclude that Jones was "bad" in 2022. None. There is also no way a rational way anyone can conclude that Jones was "bad" in his rookie year. Period. Was there areas of improvement? For sure - the TO's were terrible. But considering he was a rookie, it was a good season.
And let's not forget that his middle two years were "managed" by Judge and Garrett. The entire team was horrific, from the HC/OC (and DC) all way down the org.
But go on with your narrative, without the facts...
I said he had good fortune in 2022, in the quote you cherry-picked. Bad QBs have good games and can have ostensibly good seasons. There is a lot to suggest that Jones' 2022 was unsustainable. Very low Y/A. It means he couldn't throw downfield. His success was based usually on a one read and run passing scheme. Jones never demonstrated in his career that he could function in a multiple read, downfield passing attack. Never. Many observers assumed he could after last season. Well 2023 shows he can't. He's limited.
I said he had good fortune in 2022, in the quote you cherry-picked. Bad QBs have good games and can have ostensibly good seasons. There is a lot to suggest that Jones' 2022 was unsustainable. Very low Y/A. It means he couldn't throw downfield. His success was based usually on a one read and run passing scheme. Jones never demonstrated in his career that he could function in a multiple read, downfield passing attack. Never. Many observers assumed he could after last season. Well 2023 shows he can't. He's limited.
Go easy on speedywheels. Like Schoen, speedy hitched his wagon to Jones and now he's in a tailspin.
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In comment 16292647 jinkies said:
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Jones is a bad QB. Always has been.
Well, that's just a stupid take. But given your narrative, I'm not surprised.
There is no way a rational person can conclude that Jones was "bad" in 2022. None. There is also no way a rational way anyone can conclude that Jones was "bad" in his rookie year. Period. Was there areas of improvement? For sure - the TO's were terrible. But considering he was a rookie, it was a good season.
And let's not forget that his middle two years were "managed" by Judge and Garrett. The entire team was horrific, from the HC/OC (and DC) all way down the org.
But go on with your narrative, without the facts...
I said he had good fortune in 2022, in the quote you cherry-picked. Bad QBs have good games and can have ostensibly good seasons. There is a lot to suggest that Jones' 2022 was unsustainable. Very low Y/A. It means he couldn't throw downfield. His success was based usually on a one read and run passing scheme. Jones never demonstrated in his career that he could function in a multiple read, downfield passing attack. Never. Many observers assumed he could after last season. Well 2023 shows he can't. He's limited.
Herbert had the same Y/A that Jones did and he did that with somewhere in the neighborhood of 4400-4600 yards. Couple other heavy weights were close, within a few tenths.
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In comment 16292242 BillKo said:
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In comment 16292226 Go Terps said:
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An ACL is not a career ender for a 26 year old. From the Giants' perspective drafting a top QB creates a messy situation.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Safe and loved.....hehe.
You should try your hand at fiction.
Daniel Jones is a backup level player making $82M guaranteed. That is ridiculous enough to be fiction, but it isn't.
Assholish and unnecessary. He took a team that was universally agreed at the start of 2022 season as one of the worst rosters in the NFL. After a week he had practice squad receiving talent. He lead the team to 9 wins, then he won a playoff game playing historically well. Not 1 game, not a small sample.
The things I see your average social media sports fan post are so much more venomous and truly hateful.
and
Mac Jones 382 yards
look like HOFers
in addition to D Jones.
It's not a big deal that Jones shredded the worst pass defense in the league.
I'm of two minds here. That performance wasn't exactly nothing.
But it's a small sample size and professional sports history is replete with outstanding individual performances -- yes, even in the playoffs -- of a level the QB rarely otherwise exhibits.
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Jones is a bad QB. Always has been.
Well, that's just a stupid take. But given your narrative, I'm not surprised.
There is no way a rational person can conclude that Jones was "bad" in 2022. None. There is also no way a rational way anyone can conclude that Jones was "bad" in his rookie year. Period. Was there areas of improvement? For sure - the TO's were terrible. But considering he was a rookie, it was a good season.
And let's not forget that his middle two years were "managed" by Judge and Garrett. The entire team was horrific, from the HC/OC (and DC) all way down the org.
But go on with your narrative, without the facts...
What are we really arguing here? Terminology? You object to the idea that he's always been bad - fine. When was he good? When was he better than average?
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Mike White 369 yards
and
Mac Jones 382 yards
look like HOFers
in addition to D Jones.
It's not a big deal that Jones shredded the worst pass defense in the league.
I'm of two minds here. That performance wasn't exactly nothing.
But it's a small sample size and professional sports history is replete with outstanding individual performances -- yes, even in the playoffs -- of a level the QB rarely otherwise exhibits.
Jones had a spectacular performance that day and it should be praised. It was a fantastic win.
But it needs to be viewed in conjunction with what happened the following weeks. Jones, even under Judge, had some great performances. But so do other average or less QBs.
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Jones is a bad QB. Always has been.
Well, that's just a stupid take. But given your narrative, I'm not surprised.
There is no way a rational person can conclude that Jones was "bad" in 2022. None. There is also no way a rational way anyone can conclude that Jones was "bad" in his rookie year. Period. Was there areas of improvement? For sure - the TO's were terrible. But considering he was a rookie, it was a good season.
And let's not forget that his middle two years were "managed" by Judge and Garrett. The entire team was horrific, from the HC/OC (and DC) all way down the org.
But go on with your narrative, without the facts...
But Jones is not the first bad QB to have an abnormally good year, and he won't be the last.
Anyone remember Josh Freeman?