This is from the podcast today linked below (discussion starts at the 16:50 minute mark). Bobby Skinner said he heard that John Mara believes Schoen picked his QB when they gave Jones $160M. This is likely why some of these stories have come out (Vachhiano) and Banks/Papa on twitter defending Jones.
This is really where this contract is a disaster if this is the view from ownership. Schoen & Daboll have 4 months to convince Mara otherwise (I think they will).
But, Skinner made a good point - Jones will be in the building rehabbing and working hard. I'm sure ownership will eat that up.
Link - (
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At what point in the season did Mara know he wanted Jones for the long haul?
"I had a lot of confidence that he was our guy," Mara said. "We obviously made the decision not to exercise the fifth-year option (last year). I couldn't have been more pleased that he played as well as he did. I think it became pretty apparent, by midseason anyway, that he was going to be the guy.
Mara went on about this at some length without ever mentioning Joe Schoen.
If any selling was being done, once the season was over, who would have been doing it?
As for Tyrod Taylor and the 2017 Bills, Taylor was benched mid-season (when healthy) because Sean McDermott didn't want to watch him play QB anymore and gave Nate Peterman a try.
Peterman was horrendous, so Taylor got the job back. But Bills lost the playoff game 10-3, with Taylor completely ineffective.
Everyone in Buffalo wanted a new QB; no comparison to the Jones' controversy.
giants.com - ( New Window )
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
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Personally, I wanted the Giants to try and trade or cut Jones after the 2021 season.
But when they decided to keep him, Schoen should have read the tea leaves better.
Jones's health was cleared before the 5th year option deadline. He should have realized ownership was fully in Jones's corner and the burden of proof to cut ties after one year would be very high.
He had an opportunity to make a 22M mistake, a 32M mistake, or ultimately an 82M mistake.
He didn't do a good thing. Let's be real.
In Hindsight, yes without question.
At the time, it was the right call and it was negotiated very well in my opinion considering his position of weakness at the table.
Christian I have been watching football my whole life(you too), I can't think of a scenario where a team was legit bad for a good stretch, finally won a playoff game and let the QB walk after he won in historic fashion. I can agree it today, it was an incorrect move but Schoen did well that we have an out.
Are you really suggesting an NFL could do this?
How would it have played in the locker room?
The fans.
Jones deal was done the day the clock went to zero in Minnesota. He was signing a deal here, it was only a matter of how much and how long.
Good contract.
Agreed 100%
I might be out.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Then one or both of Maye or Williams play like a generational talent while Hones continues to flounder with the basics of the position and Daboll is fired
Shoulda tagged him.
2) The worst decisions by people in any line of business are made by those who double down or try to save face.
Although the sports are different and there's no salary cap in baseball, Mara can learn from what Steve Cohen did this past MLB season. Mets spent crazy money and went for it. Didn't work out. Didn't try to make silly trades at the deadline to save face. Ripped the band aid off and pivoted.
We all know Jones will be here, that's fine. I actually love a rookie QB hanging around a guy with the work ethic and character Jones possesses. He will be either an expensive backup QB or short term bridge QB and you hope by the middle of the year or next offseason Jones establishes some trade value. If not, you cut him before the 25 season and move on.
2 neck injuries and a torn ACL. A quarterback must be selected with a premium pick and given an opportunity to win the job. That's the way forward.
Seems to me like the neck/ACL and possibility he's damaged goods from here on out should give Schoen cover to pivot to a rookie. Hoping Mara will see his way to agree.
But the ACL in combination with his concussion and neck injuries should at a minimum be the end of his career with the Giants. The running in fact puts Jones at a high risk of having a collision that could result in another concussion or neck injury.
As far as the contract itself, it's a disaster. He should have gotten the FT, even though that would have meant a $32.5M cap hit. Then try and sign Barkley. Now we can't release Jones until 2025, and even then with a $22M cap hit. And nobody is trading for Jones right now or probably ever.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
If you can get one those top 3 QBs you have to swing. All elite athletes with plus elusiveness and plus arms. Gotta do it.
Even if Jones comes back and wins the Superbowl, drafting a QB wont be a waste. Still a 1st round chip.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Safe and loved.....hehe.
You should try your hand at fiction.
Jones showed enough last year to get more of a look-see. Schoen laid an extra $40M on the table to keep him around for an extra year or so rather than franchise him. Greater scheme of things, BFD.
As things worked out, it's a no brainer to go QB in '24, and we likely get our choice in a deep pool.
Hey, it's been a bumpy friggin ride, but thems the breaks.
If you look at this from their perspective drafting Drake Maye would be a quick and decisive admission of an error. It would not be characteristic of how the Giants operate.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
This would be a really tough pill to swallow.
Daboll deserves a lot of credit for Jones' improved play last year. It was the best he had looked in his 4 seasons in the league. So at the end of the day, if that man himself --Daboll-- believes it's in the teams best interest to move on, it would be flat out criminal to force a different decision on him. I'm not saying Daboll hasn't made plenty of mistakes, but last year he got more out of Jones than anyone else and Tyrod playing fairly well for him this year too. If the Owner thinks he knows better, he better keep those ideas to himself when push comes to shove.
As of right now, 3 of the top 5 QBs in football arugably are on the AFC teams and out of the playoff picture.
Jones showed enough last year to get more of a look-see. Schoen laid an extra $40M on the table to keep him around for an extra year or so rather than franchise him. Greater scheme of things, BFD.
As things worked out, it's a no brainer to go QB in '24, and we likely get our choice in a deep pool.
Hey, it's been a bumpy friggin ride, but thems the breaks.
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An ACL is not a career ender for a 26 year old. From the Giants' perspective drafting a top QB creates a messy situation.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Safe and loved.....hehe.
You should try your hand at fiction.
Daniel Jones is a backup level player making $82M guaranteed. That is ridiculous enough to be fiction, but it isn't.
+1. I’ll be following him out the door, not that that’s important.
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In comment 16292226 Go Terps said:
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An ACL is not a career ender for a 26 year old. From the Giants' perspective drafting a top QB creates a messy situation.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Safe and loved.....hehe.
You should try your hand at fiction.
Daniel Jones is a backup level player making $82M guaranteed. That is ridiculous enough to be fiction, but it isn't.
Safe and loved isn't the NFL. They'll cast you aside when you are of no worth anymore.
Schoen has his pick of a franchise QB and you think he'll pass that up to keep an underperforming QB who is now coming off an ACL and two neck injuries.......that's fiction.
If it makes sense to us morons, it will make sense to a professional GM.
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At what point in the season did Mara know he wanted Jones for the long haul?
"I had a lot of confidence that he was our guy," Mara said. "We obviously made the decision not to exercise the fifth-year option (last year). I couldn't have been more pleased that he played as well as he did. I think it became pretty apparent, by midseason anyway, that he was going to be the guy.
Mara went on about this at some length without ever mentioning Joe Schoen.
If any selling was being done, once the season was over, who would have been doing it?
As for Tyrod Taylor and the 2017 Bills, Taylor was benched mid-season (when healthy) because Sean McDermott didn't want to watch him play QB anymore and gave Nate Peterman a try.
Peterman was horrendous, so Taylor got the job back. But Bills lost the playoff game 10-3, with Taylor completely ineffective.
Everyone in Buffalo wanted a new QB; no comparison to the Jones' controversy. giants.com - ( New Window )
It's just the Jurrell Jernigan quote all over again lmao.
The math is wonderful. Three years of mediocrity, but sold after 8 games of the 4th year.
He was always looking for a reason to 'right' about Jones.
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In comment 16292226 Go Terps said:
Quote:
An ACL is not a career ender for a 26 year old. From the Giants' perspective drafting a top QB creates a messy situation.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Safe and loved.....hehe.
You should try your hand at fiction.
Daniel Jones is a backup level player making $82M guaranteed. That is ridiculous enough to be fiction, but it isn't.
If he played like the 12th best QB, it would be worth it.
The answer is "no fucking way".
Put yourself in the Giants' shoes. I'm not certain they're going to pass on a QB, but I think it's pretty damn far from certain they'll draft one.
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In comment 16292226 Go Terps said:
Quote:
An ACL is not a career ender for a 26 year old. From the Giants' perspective drafting a top QB creates a messy situation.
As we all have heard a million times Daniel Jones is a hard worker. I'm sure he will be diligent about his rehab and he'll be back looking great in shorts as soon as possible. He has a lot of time between now and the end of April.
Very realistic scenario:
- Giants trade down a couple spots with a team willing to give up a ton to get Maye or Williams
- Draft the PSU OT or FSU WR to help Daniel
- Draft a QB later...but later on so Daniel feels safe and loved
Safe and loved.....hehe.
You should try your hand at fiction.
Daniel Jones is a backup level player making $82M guaranteed. That is ridiculous enough to be fiction, but it isn't.
Considering that, it was at least a reasonable signing.
Before you post an encyclopedia of stats, I will counter with his 2022 QBR. He played very well in 2022, YOUR WORDS WILL NOT CHANGE WHAT WE SAW AND FELT.
I equate greatness with wins and championships.
Michael over Lebron
Eli over Marino(I know this pisses people off, Marino is the best pure passer I ever saw but not a great leader.)
I do understand that this is a something we need to agree to disagree on. This argument has endured for ages. It is just who we are individually.
I'm sure Cowboys fans were sad to see Herschel Walker go, but his departure created the triplets.
We could only hope for such a haul for picks.
Everything falling apart is giving Schoen his do-over.
DJ coming back, getting hurt, the team hitting rock bottom in nearly all areas - Schoen has his moment.
Sometimes you have to be lucky.
The answer is "no fucking way".
Put yourself in the Giants' shoes. I'm not certain they're going to pass on a QB, but I think it's pretty damn far from certain they'll draft one.
Daniel Jones = Joe Burrow?
Smart business people are not emotionally tied to past decisions and they re-evaluate decisions as more information is received. I feel comfortable that Schoen will do that. If Mara doesn't, the abject failures of the past decade will keep repeating themselves over and over again.
Everything falling apart is giving Schoen his do-over.
DJ coming back, getting hurt, the team hitting rock bottom in nearly all areas - Schoen has his moment.
Sometimes you have to be lucky.
Furthermore, Schoen lived thru a situation where Buffalo did the exact same thing - drafted a QB high to be the franchise.
He'll follow thru here.
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If Joe Burrow tore his ACL last night would the Bengals draft a QB in the first round in April?
The answer is "no fucking way".
Put yourself in the Giants' shoes. I'm not certain they're going to pass on a QB, but I think it's pretty damn far from certain they'll draft one.
Daniel Jones = Joe Burrow?
Yeah - I don't think anyone thinks that...
And if the Giants brass do - we are in really, really bad shape.
You must love torturing yourself, or just others on this thread lol
Ownership has to let the GM pick the players.
Can you give a concrete example of that not happening?
Speculation doesn't count.
Just because Mara likes DJ doesn't mean he puts him ahead of the franchise.
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At what point in the season did Mara know he wanted Jones for the long haul?
"I had a lot of confidence that he was our guy," Mara said. "We obviously made the decision not to exercise the fifth-year option (last year). I couldn't have been more pleased that he played as well as he did. I think it became pretty apparent, by midseason anyway, that he was going to be the guy.
Mara went on about this at some length without ever mentioning Joe Schoen.
If any selling was being done, once the season was over, who would have been doing it?
I don't know why more people don't get this. There was ZERO chance the Giants organization was going to let Jones leave after last year. None. The owner was on record on multiple occasions as believing in Jones. First with the "we've done everything possible to screw him up" comment, then with subsequent remarks on the record like the ones here.
People say that if Schoen didn't want Jones he should have "made his case" to Mara about it, but what case could he have made after everything the owner said publicly on the subject? Jones was going to be a Giant in 2024, no ifs, ands, or buts.
So maybe Mara doesn't "meddle". Maybe he just makes his opinion perfectly clear every single time he speaks, which given the fact that he OWNS THE TEAM carries quite a bit of weight with the people who report directly to him.
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If Joe Burrow tore his ACL last night would the Bengals draft a QB in the first round in April?
The answer is "no fucking way".
Put yourself in the Giants' shoes. I'm not certain they're going to pass on a QB, but I think it's pretty damn far from certain they'll draft one.
Daniel Jones = Joe Burrow?
For John Mara, possibly.
For some stragglers on BBI, too early to say.
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and Schoen trades down, bypasses a top QB prospect, and picks one in a mid-round. Right now, I fully expect it to happen.
You must love torturing yourself, or just others on this thread lol
Hopefully, it all evolves into picking a new QB. It will require a significant shift in the Mara opinion of Jones to potentially admit a big error in judgement and financial commitment. Right now, the recent stuff in media flags differently.
However, if they do draft a QB early can we drop the Mara intrigue. They did not pick up year 5. That does say something, no?
I know there was meddling, not saying it was made up. It appears like Schoen has autonomy to me, April will be telling.
with the Chief's offensive line at the LOS?
LT Donovan Smith
LG Joe THuney
C Creed Humphrey
RG Trey Smith
RT Jaawan Taylor
Or, Detroit?
LT Taylor Decker
LG Jonah Jackson
C Frank Ragnow
RG Graham Glasgow
RT Penei Sewell
Or, Dallas
LT Tyron Smith
LG Tyler SMith
C Tyler Biadasz
RG Zack Martin
RT Terrence Steele
Or, Philly?
LT Jordan Mailata
LG Landon Dickerson
C Jason Kelce
RG Cam Jurgens
RT Lane Johnson
You won't be going out on a limb if you say... a hell of a lot better than what this franchise has trotted out there for the past decade.
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In comment 16292271 JonC said:
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and Schoen trades down, bypasses a top QB prospect, and picks one in a mid-round. Right now, I fully expect it to happen.
You must love torturing yourself, or just others on this thread lol
Hopefully, it all evolves into picking a new QB. It will require a significant shift in the Mara opinion of Jones to potentially admit a big error in judgement and financial commitment. Right now, the recent stuff in media flags differently.
Right, because the media doesn't like to stir shit.