This is from the podcast today linked below (discussion starts at the 16:50 minute mark). Bobby Skinner said he heard that John Mara believes Schoen picked his QB when they gave Jones $160M. This is likely why some of these stories have come out (Vachhiano) and Banks/Papa on twitter defending Jones.
This is really where this contract is a disaster if this is the view from ownership. Schoen & Daboll have 4 months to convince Mara otherwise (I think they will).
But, Skinner made a good point - Jones will be in the building rehabbing and working hard. I'm sure ownership will eat that up.
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In comment 16292449 Sean said:
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In comment 16292446 UberAlias said:
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a couple games. I know many don't see that as even a possibility, but it absolutely could happen if we get some early momentum against the right team (Commanders, GB, NE). And Philly will tank it on us too if they have nothing to play for. As frustrating as this conversation is, I pray we're still having it when the season is over because that means we have a (top 2 - 3) pick worth the discussion.
The Giants need a QB. That doesn't change if they pick 3rd, so it still does matter. Jayden Daniels is very interesting. Sy has included him in the top tier thus far.
It matters at some point for sure. Picking a QB for the sake of picking a QB is exactly how we found ourselves in this mess to begin with and needs to be avoided at all costs. Worse that sticking with Jones is doubling down by reaching on a future QB bust.
Busting on a QB pick isn't that damaging since the CBA to introduce the rookie wage scale. Take Bryce Young as an example. Young's dead cap money in year three is a little over $22M...that is about as much as what everyone is considering an "out" in Jones's contract in '25. You can move on pretty fast from even the first pick overall.
The danger is in doing exactly what the Giants have done... self-imposed QB hell.
I agree that it is easier to move on from a top pick at qb, the question is when to move on from a top pick at quarterback.
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Mara has loved him since Gettleman was fawning over him at one Senior Bowl practice. And now Schoen looks galactically stupid for the contract.
How anyone can have a scintilla of trust with Schoen moving forward baffles me.
Let’s not forget who attended Jones’ Pro Day while Gettleman and Shurmur were at the owners meetings.
Chris Mara. Chris Pettit.
That Jones pro day was a joke. But I do remember seeing CMara's big head in the background. And the twinkle in his eye and the big smile on his big head.
I still get a little depressed thinking about the prior year with Shurmur at Josh Allen's pro day. Shurmur looked jubilant as Allen was throwing rocket after rocket with absolute ease...
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I highly doubt anyone is going to be 'out' as a fan if the Giants pass on a top qb prospect. That is just being dramatic to be dramatic.
I've been watching this team for 40 years. If this FO quadruples down on Jones this offseason, I'm done. I'll go root for the Lions or something.
Leave now. Save us the trouble.
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In comment 16292411 ChrisRick said:
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H
I highly doubt anyone is going to be 'out' as a fan if the Giants pass on a top qb prospect. That is just being dramatic to be dramatic.
I've been watching this team for 40 years. If this FO quadruples down on Jones this offseason, I'm done. I'll go root for the Lions or something.
Leave now. Save us the trouble.
How about, go fuck yourself?
Can we stop with this nonsense that the Giants have been irrelevant every year for 10 years?
Did last year not happen?
They were 9-7-1, and 3-6-1 down the stretch with a nice win against a very flawed team. It’s n9t like we’re talking about the ‘74 Steelers.
Kenny Pickett
Desmond Ridder
Malik Willis
Matt Corral
Bailey Zappe
Sam Howell
Chris Oladokun
Skylar Thompson
Brock Purdy
Corral and Oladokun are already on different teams. The remainder are with the team that drafted them and have enjoyed varying levels of success.
Of that group the only player that would keep me from seeking his replacement and/or considering trading him this offseason is Purdy. He is playing well enough that the 49ers should keep seeing what they've got and enjoy the excellent performance to cost ratio.
For the rest, I'd be open to moving them if the opportunity arose, and their presence wouldn't keep me from drafting or signing a QB I liked.
Two years is the scholarship.
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In comment 16292500 bw in dc said:
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Mara has loved him since Gettleman was fawning over him at one Senior Bowl practice. And now Schoen looks galactically stupid for the contract.
How anyone can have a scintilla of trust with Schoen moving forward baffles me.
Let’s not forget who attended Jones’ Pro Day while Gettleman and Shurmur were at the owners meetings.
Chris Mara. Chris Pettit.
That Jones pro day was a joke. But I do remember seeing CMara's big head in the background. And the twinkle in his eye and the big smile on his big head.
I still get a little depressed thinking about the prior year with Shurmur at Josh Allen's pro day. Shurmur looked jubilant as Allen was throwing rocket after rocket with absolute ease...
They were thinking they got Josh Allen-lite.
And what we found out is Josh Allen-lite doesn't actually add up to an NFL quarterback.
Kenny Pickett
Desmond Ridder
Malik Willis
Matt Corral
Bailey Zappe
Sam Howell
Chris Oladokun
Skylar Thompson
Brock Purdy
Corral and Oladokun are already on different teams. The remainder are with the team that drafted them and have enjoyed varying levels of success.
Of that group the only player that would keep me from seeking his replacement and/or considering trading him this offseason is Purdy. He is playing well enough that the 49ers should keep seeing what they've got and enjoy the excellent performance to cost ratio.
For the rest, I'd be open to moving them if the opportunity arose, and their presence wouldn't keep me from drafting or signing a QB I liked.
Two years is the scholarship.
100%
Purdy seems like the keeper for now.
The rest are varying degrees of suck. Sam Howell has actually played well at times. He's better than Jones. But he must still lift his overall game and get more consistent. And even where Howell is, Washington needs to consider alternativss.
Kenny Pickett
Desmond Ridder
Malik Willis
Matt Corral
Bailey Zappe
Sam Howell
Chris Oladokun
Skylar Thompson
Brock Purdy
Corral and Oladokun are already on different teams. The remainder are with the team that drafted them and have enjoyed varying levels of success.
Of that group the only player that would keep me from seeking his replacement and/or considering trading him this offseason is Purdy. He is playing well enough that the 49ers should keep seeing what they've got and enjoy the excellent performance to cost ratio.
For the rest, I'd be open to moving them if the opportunity arose, and their presence wouldn't keep me from drafting or signing a QB I liked.
Two years is the scholarship.
Thanks for the reply. As a baseline, I think that is fair.
Can we stop with this nonsense that the Giants have been irrelevant every year for 10 years?
Did last year not happen?
Does irrelevant 8 out of every 10 make you feel any better?
A real compliment coming from you.
Careful ryan some 8/23 guy will tell you he’s been around for years and then call you names. Is so devastating.
I agree with you here. That's incredibly weak. I've read people say that nothing else mattered after beating the 18-0 Patriots in the Super Bowl, everything else was gravy. Well, they tacked on ANOTHER Super Bowl 4 years later.
I've been very annoyed with this franchise the last decade, but I'd never bail.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
I want them to do what's right. But ownership seems hopelessly inept.
I want them to lose the rest of the games so we can have the top pick, get the best QB, and reset from this horrific course we have been on.
Mara, Gettleman, Judge, Jones
A disastrous era for the Giants. And Jones is its poster boy. A subpar QB, given the keys to the kingdom, who rookie corners mock. What a fucking shit show.
Just curious, don't you claim to be a diehard Knick fan? Just curious the logic there. The Knicks are much better run now, but the Giants have 4 super bowls since the Knicks won their last title.
Yes, it sucks. I miss the 4:25pm NFC East battles this time of year. Now it's only reserved for Dallas and Philly.
It has gotten to a place Im not sure I ever imagined. And the same problems for a decade.
I still watch the Giants, but it is becoming a chore rather than something I enjoy doing. Last season was fun, but it looks like a mirage.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
"Tough stretch"???
A decade of shitty football is a tough stretch?
And if the Giants pass on a top QB to bring back Daniel Jones than any sane fan has every right to be pissed and/or leave as a fan.
Why should any fan support such a shitty product that isn't entertaining?
I still watch the Giants, but it is becoming a chore rather than something I enjoy doing. Last season was fun, but it looks like a mirage.
Totally fair. I get that. Let's hope the franchise understands what it needs to do this offseason.
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In comment 16292571 ajr2456 said:
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
"Tough stretch"???
A decade of shitty football is a tough stretch?
And if the Giants pass on a top QB to bring back Daniel Jones than any sane fan has every right to be pissed and/or leave as a fan.
Why should any fan support such a shitty product that isn't entertaining?
And you're not just supporting the team. You're supporting the Maras who seem like nepotism-obsessed ignoramuses.
This idea of gatekeeping fandom is asinine, juvenile, and repleat with insecurity.
Sorry bout your small dicks, bros.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
And guess what, there’s nothing you can do if they do come crawling back.
I doubt anyone actually means they’ll stop being Giants fans, but stopping investing their time into Giants football until things turn around is perfectly reasonable given the past decade.
I’m never giving up my season tickets, but I sure as hell didn’t waste my time going to games this year. And probably won’t next year if they do decide to run it back with Jones.
That said, my enthusiasm has ebbed to the point that I have only watched a couple of games from beginning to end this year. What's worse is that my son is 15 and has rarely seen the Giants be anything other than a laughingstock. He's still a fan but he has come to expect the worst from them, and why shouldn't he? They have defined the term "bottom feeder" for most of his life.
I'll never jump ship to another team, but I certainly do lose interest in this one. When I was a teenager, Knicks basketball gripped me just as much, if not more, than baseball and football. Then the Knicks went into the toilet for more than two decades and today I'm still only moderately following them. I'm close to going the same way wth the Giants.
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In comment 16292449 Sean said:
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In comment 16292446 UberAlias said:
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a couple games. I know many don't see that as even a possibility, but it absolutely could happen if we get some early momentum against the right team (Commanders, GB, NE). And Philly will tank it on us too if they have nothing to play for. As frustrating as this conversation is, I pray we're still having it when the season is over because that means we have a (top 2 - 3) pick worth the discussion.
The Giants need a QB. That doesn't change if they pick 3rd, so it still does matter. Jayden Daniels is very interesting. Sy has included him in the top tier thus far.
It matters at some point for sure. Picking a QB for the sake of picking a QB is exactly how we found ourselves in this mess to begin with and needs to be avoided at all costs. Worse that sticking with Jones is doubling down by reaching on a future QB bust.
Busting on a QB pick isn't that damaging since the CBA to introduce the rookie wage scale. Take Bryce Young as an example. Young's dead cap money in year three is a little over $22M...that is about as much as what everyone is considering an "out" in Jones's contract in '25. You can move on pretty fast from even the first pick overall.
The danger is in doing exactly what the Giants have done... self-imposed QB hell.
I don't agree. It's not as bad as it was pre CBA, but still a huge setback. Your theory is far too optimistic and you are only looking at financial implications. It is not always so clear cut that the guys is not the answer or is it not black and white? What has the team has invested in building around him? Teams picking at the top of draft are bad teams. Bad teams don't get better with poor QB play, so often we're looking at casualties in coaching continuity. There are opportunity losses, such as what else could you have done with the top 5 pick --addressed another major need? And when you do finally concede to moving on --will you be in the same position to draft a top QB prospect? You may not have a similar high pick at that point and the real good ones don't come every year, so what then? And when you finally do get your guy, it takes time --they are rookies, they have a lot to learn. Often even with very talented guys, we're not always talking about an overnight turn around.
Then you factor in 2 neck injuries and an ACL…it’s a no brainer. It would be baffling if they passed in a generational talent to double down on this bad contract they gave Jones.
Being a nice guy doesn’t win you games and it doesn’t sell tickets either
For me, what has made the last handful of years difficult is really the self-inflicted wounds from the front office decisions and roster building. You can literally see them happening and you just want to tell them to "Stop...that's a mistake."
But you can't and you are left hoping every Sunday they can overcome them somehow. And in an outlier year like 2022 they were able to, but those big flaws always keep coming back.
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In comment 16292571 ajr2456 said:
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
"Tough stretch"???
A decade of shitty football is a tough stretch?
And if the Giants pass on a top QB to bring back Daniel Jones than any sane fan has every right to be pissed and/or leave as a fan.
Why should any fan support such a shitty product that isn't entertaining?
The groupthink as a fan base this season is strong. When is the last time the Lions won a playoff game?
Luck isn't much of a factor in the NFL, you either know how to win or you don't.
This season the NYG were absolutely not prepared on any level. Not sure why, but, it was obvious from game 1.
It seems like no changes were made to correct the course.
Dabs needs to be in this conversation too. This season has been a failure from top to bottom.
This isn't a call to fire anyone, but it would be interesting to hear from a third party audit of what the difference between last year and this year was in terms of preparation and personnel decision making.
You could spend a week pointing out all of the logical fallacies he posts over and over. Despite being wrong over and over again, he will not stop following other posters around trying to prove what a great fan he is because he agrees with everything the Giants do.
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...defensively is a bit overblown IMO.
They were a playoff team, and hosted a playoff game. Sure they were flawed and the Giants took advantage of that.
From a team perspective, it was a tremendous win, esp since the team had not won a playoff game since 2011.
Heck, if we are going to call them a JV defense maybe it was an equal battle, with the Giants JV offense (as we have found out this year) lol
Sure the Eagles whipped us but the Eagles last year were a matchup nightmare for what we were putting out there.
It’s not overblown. They were an atrocious defense and one of the worst to ever make the playoffs. The stats on that subject are not debatable.
The games agains the Vikings last season were a mirage.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
This post, I think, sums up so much about the way that you view this team, the way you view this board, the way you view other fans.
No one is keeping score of diehardedness. Many of the fans that are talking about growing apathetic have been fans since long before you were even born. You have no concept of what their real-life priorities are or should be, and have no right to tell them where to place the Giants among those priorities when the team leads the fucking league in unforced errors for the past decade, both on the field and in the front office.
For some reason, you seem to think that loyalty is defined by continuing to support every single move and decision this team makes, and I would argue that that's a very narrow and simplistic way to view it. And I would go a step further to say that ultimately continuing to support the franchise with just as much fervor in spite of their constant ineptitude is like taking your buddy out for drinks to be there for him after his family tries to stage an intervention about his drinking problem.
People aren't talking about turning their back on the Giants because they are less loyal than you, although I know you do believe that to be the case. They're talking about turning their back on the Giants because it's the only fucking thing John Mara ever notices in the first place.
Ultimately, those that are talking about tuning in less, going less, spending less, paying less attention, it's all because of how badly they do want the Giants to do better. They've just run out of ways to reconcile putting the other parts of their lives behind the Giants when they consider their priorities.
Just do us all a favor and don't act like you're a bigger fan just because you don't have a million other priorities banging at the door in your life right now.
'Being a good fan means turning your brain off and supporting everything they do' is laughable.
For me, at the stadium, belligerent and drunk fans can ruin the experience for others.
Bad fan.
On BBI
It is people who are more concerned with their opinion than the well being of the Giants.
Someone who says the Giants will never win anything with Jones and that the general manager definitely doesn't want them because they don't pick his 5th year.
That is perfectly fine and we just disagree.
Then Jones wins 9 games with a terrible team and wins a playoff game playing historically well.
THE FAN THAT DISAPPEARS FOR THE GOOD TIMES BECAUSE IT DIDNT CONFIRM HIS NARASTIVE ONLY TO RETURN WHEN THE DUMPSTER FIRE STARTS IN ORDER TO GLOAT.
That, is a very, very, very small amount of BBI and the only kind of people I consider bad fans. I can politely disagree decades.
Not a fan of trolls.
For me, at the stadium, belligerent and drunk fans can ruin the experience for others.
Bad fan.
On BBI
It is people who are more concerned with their opinion than the well being of the Giants.
Someone who says the Giants will never win anything with Jones and that the general manager definitely doesn't want them because they don't pick his 5th year.
That is perfectly fine and we just disagree.
Then Jones wins 9 games with a terrible team and wins a playoff game playing historically well.
THE FAN THAT DISAPPEARS FOR THE GOOD TIMES BECAUSE IT DIDNT CONFIRM HIS NARASTIVE ONLY TO RETURN WHEN THE DUMPSTER FIRE STARTS IN ORDER TO GLOAT.
That, is a very, very, very small amount of BBI and the only kind of people I consider bad fans. I can politely disagree decades.
Not a fan of trolls.
Jones is a bad QB. Always has been. A simplified game plan and bad opponents led to some good fortune last season, and masked his deficiencies. I am happy for you that you enjoyed it, but his 2023 performance shows what he is.
But, if someone started a thread today and said they were jumping ship to the Eagles because of how well run they were, I'd assume just about every comment would be saying, "good riddance".
This idea of gatekeeping fandom is asinine, juvenile, and repleat with insecurity.
Sorry bout your small dicks, bros.
Logman - your username attached to this quote brought some much needed levity to me, at least.
Sean also don’t forget that crazy clown who was rooting for the Eagles vs the Jets.
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A better fan than someone else or a “real fan”.
People are free to put as much effort into being a fan as they want.
Actually there is. Weak ass fans leave the team when they aren't doing great, and then reappear when they are good.
That's called...not being a true fan.
I thought us Giants fans had actual pride in knowing what it means to be a fan of the team.
Sure, go ahead and "leave the fanbase" because we are in a tough stretch. Whoever does that will come crawling back eventually.
Do they have to pay more for a ticket?
Swear an oath of allegiance before watching again?