I'm a Giants fan. I watch every game. I've watched almost every game since the mid-70s.
I think at this juncture, with this terrible team, and with a shot at one of the top 2 picks, and a shot at a franchise-altering QB, losses are in the long term interest of the team I root for.
I would rather have a chance at real greatness, long-lasting, dynastic greatness, and as a fan of the 80s Giants I know what real greatness looks like, than muddle along with 50 shades of mediocrity and awfulness.
I am not superstitious, therefore I don't think what I feel during the games, in the privacy of my home, in front of my television, has any affect on what happens on the field.
And I don't mind if you feel differently. I don't care if you feel a couple of meaningless wins on the way to a 4-13 season is satisfying. Good for you, I say. But the manner in which I root for my team is equally valid. I want the Giants to win multiple Super Bowls. And the fastest way to do this in my opinion is to lose out, move off Daniel Jones post haste, and get a rookie QB with elite upside.
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In comment 16292704 joeinpa said:
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That s a lot of losing to depend on for your dreams to come true. Some are setting themselves up for major disappointment if 2-15 doesn’t happen.
I ll watch the games without the same intensity as I do when they are meaningful and being honest a win against the Pats or Packers would seem empty, because of the lost draft capital.
But while I would accept the benefit of losing to the Eagles, a win in that game, if the Eagles still need it would be very satisfying
In the end the team will draft where they do regardless of the OP rooting for losses.
I will add however, non competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward, would rather see some wins than 7 more non competitive embarrassments
Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.
You forgot to add, In my opinion.
Joe, after all these years you still haven't figured out that unless someone is making a comment about something that has already happened, almost every other post is someone's OPINION.
It's obvious to everyone else that he posted his opinion. Why do you think we need to litter this board with unnecessary words like, "in my opinion", "I think", IMO, etc. to every post?
Do you realize how much more time that would take to read if EVERY post that didn't state a proven fact, included some "IMO" qualifier to make the overly sensitive feel better?
And now that I think about it... when you stated earlier in this very thread that, "non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward"... Were you stating an opinion or a fact? Because if you're following your own rules, shouldn't have added some form of "in my opinion" to your very debatable take?
I don't care about #1 pick, I care about us getting our #1 QB. Maye , Williams, Daniel's..
We do have a guy who was ecstatic when Jones suffered his neck injury this year.
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In comment 16292714 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16292704 joeinpa said:
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That s a lot of losing to depend on for your dreams to come true. Some are setting themselves up for major disappointment if 2-15 doesn’t happen.
I ll watch the games without the same intensity as I do when they are meaningful and being honest a win against the Pats or Packers would seem empty, because of the lost draft capital.
But while I would accept the benefit of losing to the Eagles, a win in that game, if the Eagles still need it would be very satisfying
In the end the team will draft where they do regardless of the OP rooting for losses.
I will add however, non competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward, would rather see some wins than 7 more non competitive embarrassments
Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.
You forgot to add, In my opinion.
Joe, after all these years you still haven't figured out that unless someone is making a comment about something that has already happened, almost every other post is someone's OPINION.
It's obvious to everyone else that he posted his opinion. Why do you think we need to litter this board with unnecessary words like, "in my opinion", "I think", IMO, etc. to every post?
Do you realize how much more time that would take to read if EVERY post that didn't state a proven fact, included some "IMO" qualifier to make the overly sensitive feel better?
And now that I think about it... when you stated earlier in this very thread that, "non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward"... Were you stating an opinion or a fact? Because if you're following your own rules, shouldn't have added some form of "in my opinion" to your very debatable take?
I understand that Jim, of course I don’t expect every post to include the caveat, “In my opinion”
In this case he was minimizing my point, a legit point, that 7 more awful losses can have significant implications going forward. He was stating it in absolute terms, I was simply making the point that my opinion is as valid as his
I consider you a good poster but please don’t insult me by suggesting I have rules about how people should post
You missed my point, it happens. There is often no tone in texting or posting. You interpreted my post literally, not how it was meant
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In comment 16292737 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16292714 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16292704 joeinpa said:
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That s a lot of losing to depend on for your dreams to come true. Some are setting themselves up for major disappointment if 2-15 doesn’t happen.
I ll watch the games without the same intensity as I do when they are meaningful and being honest a win against the Pats or Packers would seem empty, because of the lost draft capital.
But while I would accept the benefit of losing to the Eagles, a win in that game, if the Eagles still need it would be very satisfying
In the end the team will draft where they do regardless of the OP rooting for losses.
I will add however, non competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward, would rather see some wins than 7 more non competitive embarrassments
Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.
You forgot to add, In my opinion.
Joe, after all these years you still haven't figured out that unless someone is making a comment about something that has already happened, almost every other post is someone's OPINION.
It's obvious to everyone else that he posted his opinion. Why do you think we need to litter this board with unnecessary words like, "in my opinion", "I think", IMO, etc. to every post?
Do you realize how much more time that would take to read if EVERY post that didn't state a proven fact, included some "IMO" qualifier to make the overly sensitive feel better?
And now that I think about it... when you stated earlier in this very thread that, "non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward"... Were you stating an opinion or a fact? Because if you're following your own rules, shouldn't have added some form of "in my opinion" to your very debatable take?
I understand that Jim, of course I don’t expect every post to include the caveat, “In my opinion”
In this case he was minimizing my point, a legit point, that 7 more awful losses can have significant implications going forward. He was stating it in absolute terms, I was simply making the point that my opinion is as valid as his
I consider you a good poster but please don’t insult me by suggesting I have rules about how people should post
You missed my point, it happens. There is often no tone in texting or posting. You interpreted my post literally, not how it was meant
I'm not the one who missed the point, as you absolutely DO have rules about how other people post.
For years when other people disagree with you "too strongly" you suggest that they are stating their opinions as facts. You've made some version of that post dozens of times. I'm sorry if that insults you, but that's a fact.
As I already pointed out… you stated in this thread that, “non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward”
Sammo stated, “Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.”
Most people would view that as two posters taking polar opposite views about the significance of the remaining games on the Giants’ schedule.
Yet because Sammo’s OPINION differed from yours, you think that he’s somehow required to add “in my opinion” to his post, while you’re free to state your opinion on the exact same topic, without adding any qualifiers.
And of course, since you disagreed with his opinion, you think his opinion was stated “in absolute terms” while your opposite view was stated in what... non-absolute terms?
I think many would think that’s hypocritical of you. But of course, that’s just my opinion.
perfectly valid... and effective.
I'm pretty excited about this team's prospects after 2023. This stage of the rebuild will be interesting to watch play out. And everyone here is passionate about it and has strong opinions.
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In comment 16292756 Jim in Tampa said:
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In comment 16292737 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16292714 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16292704 joeinpa said:
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That s a lot of losing to depend on for your dreams to come true. Some are setting themselves up for major disappointment if 2-15 doesn’t happen.
I ll watch the games without the same intensity as I do when they are meaningful and being honest a win against the Pats or Packers would seem empty, because of the lost draft capital.
But while I would accept the benefit of losing to the Eagles, a win in that game, if the Eagles still need it would be very satisfying
In the end the team will draft where they do regardless of the OP rooting for losses.
I will add however, non competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward, would rather see some wins than 7 more non competitive embarrassments
Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.
You forgot to add, In my opinion.
Joe, after all these years you still haven't figured out that unless someone is making a comment about something that has already happened, almost every other post is someone's OPINION.
It's obvious to everyone else that he posted his opinion. Why do you think we need to litter this board with unnecessary words like, "in my opinion", "I think", IMO, etc. to every post?
Do you realize how much more time that would take to read if EVERY post that didn't state a proven fact, included some "IMO" qualifier to make the overly sensitive feel better?
And now that I think about it... when you stated earlier in this very thread that, "non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward"... Were you stating an opinion or a fact? Because if you're following your own rules, shouldn't have added some form of "in my opinion" to your very debatable take?
I understand that Jim, of course I don’t expect every post to include the caveat, “In my opinion”
In this case he was minimizing my point, a legit point, that 7 more awful losses can have significant implications going forward. He was stating it in absolute terms, I was simply making the point that my opinion is as valid as his
I consider you a good poster but please don’t insult me by suggesting I have rules about how people should post
You missed my point, it happens. There is often no tone in texting or posting. You interpreted my post literally, not how it was meant
I'm not the one who missed the point, as you absolutely DO have rules about how other people post.
For years when other people disagree with you "too strongly" you suggest that they are stating their opinions as facts. You've made some version of that post dozens of times. I'm sorry if that insults you, but that's a fact.
As I already pointed out… you stated in this thread that, “non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward”
Sammo stated, “Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.”
Most people would view that as two posters taking polar opposite views about the significance of the remaining games on the Giants’ schedule.
Yet because Sammo’s OPINION differed from yours, you think that he’s somehow required to add “in my opinion” to his post, while you’re free to state your opinion on the exact same topic, without adding any qualifiers.
And of course, since you disagreed with his opinion, you think his opinion was stated “in absolute terms” while your opposite view was stated in what... non-absolute terms?
I think many would think that’s hypocritical of you. But of course, that’s just my opinion.
Whatever Jim, I already told you I don’t expect anyone to do anything. But this is the type of pissing match I m not interested in.
But thank you for paying such close attention to what I post. Honestly I can’t say I do the same for yours.
I recommend you ignore my posts going forward, you ll be less aggravated
I'm pretty excited about this team's prospects after 2023. This stage of the rebuild will be interesting to watch play out. And everyone here is passionate about it and has strong opinions.
You started a thread that one of the mods referred to as "very close to trolling". You weren't really looking for a civilized discussion, so save us the lecture.
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In comment 16292768 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16292756 Jim in Tampa said:
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In comment 16292737 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16292714 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16292704 joeinpa said:
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That s a lot of losing to depend on for your dreams to come true. Some are setting themselves up for major disappointment if 2-15 doesn’t happen.
I ll watch the games without the same intensity as I do when they are meaningful and being honest a win against the Pats or Packers would seem empty, because of the lost draft capital.
But while I would accept the benefit of losing to the Eagles, a win in that game, if the Eagles still need it would be very satisfying
In the end the team will draft where they do regardless of the OP rooting for losses.
I will add however, non competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward, would rather see some wins than 7 more non competitive embarrassments
Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.
You forgot to add, In my opinion.
Joe, after all these years you still haven't figured out that unless someone is making a comment about something that has already happened, almost every other post is someone's OPINION.
It's obvious to everyone else that he posted his opinion. Why do you think we need to litter this board with unnecessary words like, "in my opinion", "I think", IMO, etc. to every post?
Do you realize how much more time that would take to read if EVERY post that didn't state a proven fact, included some "IMO" qualifier to make the overly sensitive feel better?
And now that I think about it... when you stated earlier in this very thread that, "non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward"... Were you stating an opinion or a fact? Because if you're following your own rules, shouldn't have added some form of "in my opinion" to your very debatable take?
I understand that Jim, of course I don’t expect every post to include the caveat, “In my opinion”
In this case he was minimizing my point, a legit point, that 7 more awful losses can have significant implications going forward. He was stating it in absolute terms, I was simply making the point that my opinion is as valid as his
I consider you a good poster but please don’t insult me by suggesting I have rules about how people should post
You missed my point, it happens. There is often no tone in texting or posting. You interpreted my post literally, not how it was meant
I'm not the one who missed the point, as you absolutely DO have rules about how other people post.
For years when other people disagree with you "too strongly" you suggest that they are stating their opinions as facts. You've made some version of that post dozens of times. I'm sorry if that insults you, but that's a fact.
As I already pointed out… you stated in this thread that, “non-competitive losses like the last two weeks can have some significant ramifications going forward”
Sammo stated, “Wins mean nothing any more this season. Absolutely nothing.”
Most people would view that as two posters taking polar opposite views about the significance of the remaining games on the Giants’ schedule.
Yet because Sammo’s OPINION differed from yours, you think that he’s somehow required to add “in my opinion” to his post, while you’re free to state your opinion on the exact same topic, without adding any qualifiers.
And of course, since you disagreed with his opinion, you think his opinion was stated “in absolute terms” while your opposite view was stated in what... non-absolute terms?
I think many would think that’s hypocritical of you. But of course, that’s just my opinion.
Whatever Jim, I already told you I don’t expect anyone to do anything. But this is the type of pissing match I m not interested in.
But thank you for paying such close attention to what I post. Honestly I can’t say I do the same for yours.
I recommend you ignore my posts going forward, you ll be less aggravated
And I recommend you be less of a hypocrite going forward.
Have a nice night!
Don't worry about the Giants...
And ask yourself this... What would the current regime have done with the first pick this year? Do you think they would have taken Stroud? Would they have passed on him because that stupid useless cognitive test didn't align with their tough smart dependable philosophy?
Just play the young guys and let the chips fall where they may. But I will not root for a loss. You cannot engineer the perfect draft. There is a lot more wrong with this team aside from QB. Maybe Maye or Williams are transformational. Maybe they aren't.
In 2021 the Lions were 2-13-1 going into their last game against the Packers. The Packers were sitting their starters in prep for the playoffs. The Lions had the #2 draft pick going into the game. They played a hell of a game and wound up winning 37-30 with a touchdown in thee last two minutes. It turned out with other team losses that the Lions would have had the number one pick if they had lost. Instead the remained at #2 and wound up seleecting Aidan Hutchinson. Who may be one if not the best players from that draft. A poll of fans following their 3-13-1 season on whether the season wasa success came out 1,552 as Yes and 136 as No. And that was before the draft.
Like many here have stated I do not mind when they lose as a better draft pick is good. However I root for them to win and I hope to see positive play and enthusiasm to build on. There is still a lot of season left. If the team can come back from a brutal turn of events and win some games and still pick in the top five, that would give me a better feel for this team than if they continue as they have been, be a joke of the league, and maybe even have a quarterback sneak on 3rd and 9. That would be a much better ending than the joke we have been watching even if coupled with a #1 pick. A win here or there would show that this team has players to build with and a coaching staff that can inspire and has the guts to let the players play. If the Lions could have such a positive poll with only one emore win than we have now anythings possible. Defeating their division rivals to end the season probably had a lot to do with that.
Let the draft fall as it may and deal with it then. There is too much of a short season left to be hoping for losses. Let's enjoy whats left and hope to win some games. Go Giants!
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-team-turnover-which-nfl-teams-have-seen-the-most-roster-turnover-over-the-last-three-seasons - ( New Window )
Lose more, and get a great QB (potentially) in the draft.
Tough to argue with that.
But for me, it is impossible to sit there watching the game and rooting for the jints to lose. Especially when they are playing Washington.
No way I'm rooting for Washington to win.
But no judgement either way, and to each their own.
I’ve been a fan for than 50 years, and I am not going to spend Sunday watching or be happy if they win or lose. The draft is 6 months away and I have better things to do.
If other fans want to root for wins because they get some short-term satisfaction, by all means, enjoy the experience.
But it's another lost season where we aren't making the playoffs.
And if the Romantics think any wins will create some momentum for next year, I suggest you recall the last two years we made the playoffs and what happened the succeeding year.
+1
It's boring. I don't give a shit who they draft with their top 3 pick because I am 100% confident in this moron team that they will not get it right.
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I want the top pick and avoid any cost of having to trade up. Period.
Preach
Bryce Young, #1 pick. Awesome!
if you’re actively rooting against the team on Sunday - cheering when we don’t convert a 3rd down, pumping your fist when we get stopped at the goal line, etc. - then you’ve lost sight of what this is all about.
rooting for losses is a fantasy football / Madden mentality borne from the idea that the draft is predictable and draft picks all pan out the way they are supposed to. it might work that way in your Madden season, but rarely does that happen in real life.
the team is playing to win, players are fighting for a win and a career, coaches are coaching to win, and fans - short for fanatics - either support the team on Sunday or they don’t.
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In comment 16292696 Sammo85 said:
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I want the top pick and avoid any cost of having to trade up. Period.
Preach
Bryce Young, #1 pick. Awesome!
Unfortunately, thinking before you write isn't one of your strengths.
Bryce Young, #1 pick. Awesome!
CJ Stroud #2 pick, should have been #1 pick, Awesome!
I think it is important that the HC prepares the team to execute with the goal of winning on gameday. The record will be the record at the end of the season.
I would not have a issue with them playing some younger players over older veterans who they don't have expectations of returning but that should not change the objective of winning. Imo.
way to go asshole.
I think if we play DeVito the rest of the season that’s a way to do that.
I think if we play DeVito the rest of the season that’s a way to do that.
I think it’s possible even if Taylor comes back. No idea whether he can hold up and get back up to speed/rust off 4-5 weeks.
That said I want all the young kids to be playing right now. No more Jihad Ward on DL just because Wink loves him. Hyatt needs to play and be targeted. This is not about 2023, it’s all about 2024 and forward.
Even if they make tons of mistakes and we lose every game it’s valuable to build experience and if anything they’ll learn to hate losing.
Injuries no, but cheering for losses absolutely. I cheered when the Yankees got swept by the rays in 2016, and those losses lead to them winning and being contenders again because of the moves they were forced to make.
I rooted for Bruins losses in 16-17 because I desperately wanted to see Claude Julien fired. He was and that lead directly to them getting back to the playoffs and back to the SCF.
Now neither team has won a championship, which as the ultimate goal is highly disappointing, but losing created the changes needed to get back to winning and playoff games.
That's where I'm at with the Giants
A) find a new sports team to support
Or
B) find a big bag of dicks and eat them.
The end.
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Bryce Young, #1 pick. Awesome!
CJ Stroud #2 pick, should have been #1 pick, Awesome!
Would this regime have picked Stroud with the first pick? I don't think so. We will never know but I don't believe they would have
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In comment 16292886 4xchamps said:
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Bryce Young, #1 pick. Awesome!
CJ Stroud #2 pick, should have been #1 pick, Awesome!
Would this regime have picked Stroud with the first pick? I don't think so. We will never know but I don't believe they would have
Stroud would have been far more likely than Young. The Giants prefer prototypical size at the QB position and Stroud fits that far better than Young.
In 2021 the Lions were 2-13-1 going into their last game against the Packers. The Packers were sitting their starters in prep for the playoffs. The Lions had the #2 draft pick going into the game. They played a hell of a game and wound up winning 37-30 with a touchdown in thee last two minutes. It turned out with other team losses that the Lions would have had the number one pick if they had lost. Instead the remained at #2 and wound up seleecting Aidan Hutchinson. Who may be one if not the best players from that draft. A poll of fans following their 3-13-1 season on whether the season wasa success came out 1,552 as Yes and 136 as No. And that was before the draft.
Like many here have stated I do not mind when they lose as a better draft pick is good. However I root for them to win and I hope to see positive play and enthusiasm to build on. There is still a lot of season left. If the team can come back from a brutal turn of events and win some games and still pick in the top five, that would give me a better feel for this team than if they continue as they have been, be a joke of the league, and maybe even have a quarterback sneak on 3rd and 9. That would be a much better ending than the joke we have been watching even if coupled with a #1 pick. A win here or there would show that this team has players to build with and a coaching staff that can inspire and has the guts to let the players play. If the Lions could have such a positive poll with only one emore win than we have now anythings possible. Defeating their division rivals to end the season probably had a lot to do with that.
Let the draft fall as it may and deal with it then. There is too much of a short season left to be hoping for losses. Let's enjoy whats left and hope to win some games. Go Giants! https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-team-turnover-which-nfl-teams-have-seen-the-most-roster-turnover-over-the-last-three-seasons - ( New Window )
Such a sober and reasonable take. Thanks for sharing your point of view on this.
Such a sober and reasonable take. Thanks for sharing your point of view on this.
Thanks!
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Coaches are coaching to win and the players are definitely playing to win. This is their livelihood. They may not be here next season and they don't want to go looking for a team with a piss poor performance the prior season. I believe the idea of losing for a better draft position is only a fan perspective. So by wishing for them to lose you are really wishing that they are really as bad as they look or even worse. That if true will continue into next year as on average over 60% of your team returns. (See link below for PFF article on recent team turnover numbers)
In 2021 the Lions were 2-13-1 going into their last game against the Packers. The Packers were sitting their starters in prep for the playoffs. The Lions had the #2 draft pick going into the game. They played a hell of a game and wound up winning 37-30 with a touchdown in thee last two minutes. It turned out with other team losses that the Lions would have had the number one pick if they had lost. Instead the remained at #2 and wound up seleecting Aidan Hutchinson. Who may be one if not the best players from that draft. A poll of fans following their 3-13-1 season on whether the season wasa success came out 1,552 as Yes and 136 as No. And that was before the draft.
Like many here have stated I do not mind when they lose as a better draft pick is good. However I root for them to win and I hope to see positive play and enthusiasm to build on. There is still a lot of season left. If the team can come back from a brutal turn of events and win some games and still pick in the top five, that would give me a better feel for this team than if they continue as they have been, be a joke of the league, and maybe even have a quarterback sneak on 3rd and 9. That would be a much better ending than the joke we have been watching even if coupled with a #1 pick. A win here or there would show that this team has players to build with and a coaching staff that can inspire and has the guts to let the players play. If the Lions could have such a positive poll with only one emore win than we have now anythings possible. Defeating their division rivals to end the season probably had a lot to do with that.
Let the draft fall as it may and deal with it then. There is too much of a short season left to be hoping for losses. Let's enjoy whats left and hope to win some games. Go Giants! https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-team-turnover-which-nfl-teams-have-seen-the-most-roster-turnover-over-the-last-three-seasons - ( New Window )
You're conflating things and thinking you are really a part of the organization by being a fan. Nothing can be further from the truth.
You are a fan and they are pro coaches and athletes. Yes they play to win; otherwise it could very well mean not having a job. And when they get their next (if they do) they simply throw away their free Giants gear and go pick up their new Eagles or Dolphins gear o whatever.
As a fan you are in a different situation. Assuming you do not just go switch teams because they are winning and you are losing. You are stuck with them and, you are looking at it from a longer term perspective than say having an uncomofrtable convo in Mara's office as to why you only won 2 games. Just like it would be a disaster if I went to to dinner with Thibs or sexy Dex.
Me watching him on tv or at Met life stadium that is fine for both of us.
Detriot Lions are bad example. There is a lot more to the story than getting lucky on a #2 pick. They made a blockbuster trade WHICH THE PRIMARY FOCUS WAS THE QB. They got a boat load of picks. winning the last game of the season didn't have anything to do with it.
Rams were in win now mode and Detriot then was rebuilding. They took it seriously and started with a QB. Which is where we need to start. Which includes picking top 3.
Some may take the position that they are that bad because of one player – the quarterback. And that by losing out they can solve that problem. I don’t see it like that for the Giants. While most talent evaluators woild not have Daniel Jones in the top ten QBs, from what I see most seemed to have him as an average QB. Here are some 2023 preseason rankings
CBS 15th
PFF 17th
Sporting News 16th
Sharp 18th
If the Giants are top of draft bad it is not all on Daniel Jones. So I am saying hoping they are that bad to get the top quarterback is not my view of things. I would rather see this team finish up this season with some wins and show that they have talent and good coaches. They showed something to be proud of in the defeat of Washington today. More games like that is what I hope for. That is something to build on. Did the Colts win a Super Bowl with Andrew Luck?
So a team can look and feel like they are tanking when it is not intentional at all.