that's fine. But, none of those reasons can have anything to do with Jones because both are presenting as much better QBs than he is. They are both, far and away better on the college level than Jones was and both are universally considered can't miss for the pros. Now, that doesn't literally mean either can't be a dud. But, it also makes it absurd to not want either because you think they aren't better than Jones.
People are allowed to have opinions. Nobody is telling you how to arrive at your opinion? Kind of condescending the way some criticize contrary opinions.
He is terrible pre-snap
He has trouble reading post snap
He doesn't sense the rush well
He stands too long holding the ball
He has a long wind up
He has limited arm strength throwing outside the hashes
He can't throw with anticipation
He does not throw with accuaracy to leverage points with consistency
He moves poorly in the pocket.
He can't find secondary targets downfield
Jones can only excel in a single read and run offense.
Long past time to find another QB
October 2023 registration... wonder whose troll account this is
That's a troll post? The OP is more likely to be a troll post. Daniel Jones fucking sucks
if you spend a top 3 pick like that on a QB, they better be worth it. I agree with major concerns with both. Neither looking overly impressive. Williams TD was under thrown and the CB fell down. In the NFL that’s an interception. In the Pac10, it’s a long TD.
Jayden Daniels has been the most impressive college QB imo
I think Maye’s performance pushes him down below Daniels. Williams is still #1, but Daniels is closing.
RE: Am I the only one not concerned about Daniels' build?
he's 210 pounds with room to put on more. I think he'll be able to get up to 225. Jalen Hurts looks bigger to me than when he entered the league.
No you’re not. I’m not sure about getting to 225, but I’m also skeptical that he’s 210, probably closer to 195-200. That said, he can bulk up a bit. 210 would be a fine weight for him. If the Giants are picking #2, he may be the guy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There's a lot of unknown about them
He is terrible pre-snap
He has trouble reading post snap
He doesn't sense the rush well
He stands too long holding the ball
He has a long wind up
He has limited arm strength throwing outside the hashes
He can't throw with anticipation
He does not throw with accuaracy to leverage points with consistency
He moves poorly in the pocket.
He can't find secondary targets downfield
Jones can only excel in a single read and run offense.
Long past time to find another QB
If you are going to denigrate Jones at least get the issues he has correct.
His problem is slow to read the defense post snap and failing to pull the trigger.
But other than that.... they need a new QB that can read quickly and react.
I think you're correct, too. We're both correct. What did I say about Jones that was untrue.
75% of what y0u wrote. Example - his arm is plety strong to make any throw.
He is ok in the pocket, too - well if there is a pocket.
You repeat the same issue in different forms...
I would say Jones’s presnap adjustments aren’t terrible, but sorry, his pocket presence is bad. It’s gotten better, but it’s still not good.
the physical ability in the QB class this year I don’t know what to tell you. Fortunately it’s so evident the coaching and playcalling for the top QBs is actually so darn pretty awful with some caveats for LSU. Frankly I like college QBs having to deal with adversity. Makes them tougher. Makes them learn and work harder to win.
Also not sure if you watched Jones his last year at Duke. Some real big stinkers in there. Yet on physical eye tests, the guy rose like helium to go in top 6.
Jones is also highly (over)paid now and highly injured.
Maye has a terrific arm and mechanics. Needs to get more experience and coached up. Mack Brown sucks as a head coach and his staff is not good.
Williams has some concerns with ball control and playing streetball too much but to me there is no waiting. He will be #1 pick no matter what or who has it.
Daniels I’m a little concerned about the build but the release and ball placement and decisionmaking is exceptional.
Nix is a real wild card to me. Wouldn’t stun me to see him go somewhere and be rushed into duty too quickly. Also wouldn’t stun me to see him go somewhere and in Burrow esque fashion take league by force.
The question I have for people is, pretend Williams didn't play last year. Who would rank him no. 1 on this year's play alone? Not saying he's not worth it, but think about that for a minute. The problem with draft pundits is that once a guy is annointed as a god, they never change their opinion of him. And if you weren't anointed a top pick preseason it's damn near impossible to break into the top group. That's Daniels' problem. If you just go on their play this year it's Daniels, Penix, and then some combo of Williams, Maye and Nix with McCarthy trying to crack that group. That's the Burrow lesson.
It's just like preseason polls. If you're not in the top five or six teams based on last season's results it's almost impossible to crack that group.
Very true. Also beware of thinking any bad habits are going to be "coached." Any of these guys who are in 'Power conferences" have had 4 years of qb coaching. With some minor tweaks, they are what they will be.
His stats are something, but you guys have seem him a lot more than I
He is a 5 year starter playing with a mostly returning cast against weak PAC-12 defenses. Against the SEC he did not look this good on a consistent basis. I honestly have Kenny Pickett concerns that the breakout this year is not due to factors that can translate. Pickett is a decent QB, but that team is built on the defense putting them in favorable positions. Without the defense he isn’t a playoff QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There's a lot of unknown about them
About his passes earlier in the game. The release is quite quick and the arm strength is terrific, so overall the ball gets to the receiver fast. He is also very accurate. I was also trying to assess his pocket movement and I say it was pretty good, although may need some refining. Finally, he seemed to spot open receivers naturally and when he did the ball got there in a hurry.
A lot to like.
He also had 2 INT’s dropped. He was bad yesterday, and that has to be taken into account in his evaluation. It’s the only halfway decent defense he’s played against all year.
His stats are something, but you guys have seem him a lot more than I
Really good college QB who has blossomed nicely since he got the hell out of Auburn after dealing with the pressure being a highly recruited legacy recruit.
But Nix really doesn't have any special physical tools. So, I see him as a day three opportunity who fits that "if he gets into the right system prospect" he could develop down the line...
But as long as Williams checks out without any red flags, I could get behind that in a big way.
But I'd also be ecstatic getting Penix, Nix or Daniels in round 2 or a trade up. I don't think any of us can really say for certain it's one way or the other.
Daniels will be a top 5 pick. He’s not making it to 15, no less the second round.
But as long as Williams checks out without any red flags, I could get behind that in a big way.
But I'd also be ecstatic getting Penix, Nix or Daniels in round 2 or a trade up. I don't think any of us can really say for certain it's one way or the other.
Daniels will be a top 5 pick. He’s not making it to 15, no less the second round.
Correct. The only way Daniels falls into round two is if a red flag pops up or he suffers some significant injury.
But as long as Williams checks out without any red flags, I could get behind that in a big way.
But I'd also be ecstatic getting Penix, Nix or Daniels in round 2 or a trade up. I don't think any of us can really say for certain it's one way or the other.
Daniels will be a top 5 pick. He’s not making it to 15, no less the second round.
Correct. The only way Daniels falls into round two is if a red flag pops up or he suffers some significant injury.
He's in the hunt for the top spot for sure.
The more I watch them, Daniels may not have the highest upside but I think he has the best head of the top options this year. Interviews will matter, but I definitely could see a team needing a QB having him at the top of their board.
with the crew that seems to criticize everything about Jones. I think a lot was wrong around him this season. Looking objectively at it I think the OL and RB's were a big drop off and maybe a slight uptick at the skill spots.
That said, with another injury and his cost going forward I think the Giants should draft a QB if they have conviction on one. If they don't, then trade back and address it another year though I would still add a QB after round 1 next draft.
Allen is a much better athlete and more dynamic. And Allen has an arm from Planet QB in another galaxy.
And I really like Maye. But that's a poor comp.
I’ve made the Allen comp for Maye, but I should have qualified it as he reminds A LITTLE of Allen. I think Allen is a much better comp that Herbert, that I don’t see. Herbert’s arm talent is off the charts, second only to Mahomes, IMO. Now Allen has a howitzer, but arm talent is more than just arm strength - it’s placement, touch, timing. I don’t see that in Maye, although yesterday was the first full game of his I’ve seen.
Allen is a much better athlete and more dynamic. And Allen has an arm from Planet QB in another galaxy.
And I really like Maye. But that's a poor comp.
I’ve made the Allen comp for Maye, but I should have qualified it as he reminds A LITTLE of Allen. I think Allen is a much better comp that Herbert, that I don’t see. Herbert’s arm talent is off the charts, second only to Mahomes, IMO. Now Allen has a howitzer, but arm talent is more than just arm strength - it’s placement, touch, timing. I don’t see that in Maye, although yesterday was the first full game of his I’ve seen.
I don't like the Herbert comp, either.
When Maye is playing well, I see a lot of Joe Burrow. A crafty mover who doesn't panic and can throw a very catchable ball into tight areas.
Unfortunately, statistics in college are absolutely useless in projecting NFL compatibility. The width of college hashmarks vs pro hashmarks makes football to be almost 2 different games. It's not discussed enough because it isn't sexy to talk about. Also, college DB's as a whole do not have NFL talent. Good college WR's are good vs that talent and it's not a lock that it translates to the pro game.
A few weeks ago, Marvin Harrison Jr. caught a 7 yard slant for a TD and the announcers went nuts about how talented he is. I'm sure he is, but that was no more than a warm up route not being touched by a DB. 2 different games in my opinion.
Daniels upside is just as high as Caleb’s. The floor is lower.
Williams I think has the floor of a complete bust whereas I think Daniels at the very least you are looking at an Alex Smith-type. There is something that really rubs me the wrong way about Williams’s leadership skills.
DeVito has more TD passes right now than Daniel Jones.
Do you know how absurd that is?
Touchdown Tommy! He's got the initials, LOL! Why not? Why not Tommy? He wouldn't be the first to make it from practice squad to franchise quarterback...
People are allowed to have opinions. Nobody is telling you how to arrive at your opinion? Kind of condescending the way some criticize contrary opinions.
Quote:
But we know Daniel Jones is not a good starter.
He is terrible pre-snap
He has trouble reading post snap
He doesn't sense the rush well
He stands too long holding the ball
He has a long wind up
He has limited arm strength throwing outside the hashes
He can't throw with anticipation
He does not throw with accuaracy to leverage points with consistency
He moves poorly in the pocket.
He can't find secondary targets downfield
Jones can only excel in a single read and run offense.
Long past time to find another QB
October 2023 registration... wonder whose troll account this is
Jayden Daniels has been the most impressive college QB imo
I think Maye’s performance pushes him down below Daniels. Williams is still #1, but Daniels is closing.
No you’re not. I’m not sure about getting to 225, but I’m also skeptical that he’s 210, probably closer to 195-200. That said, he can bulk up a bit. 210 would be a fine weight for him. If the Giants are picking #2, he may be the guy.
Quote:
In comment 16293434 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16293426 jinkies said:
Quote:
But we know Daniel Jones is not a good starter.
He is terrible pre-snap
He has trouble reading post snap
He doesn't sense the rush well
He stands too long holding the ball
He has a long wind up
He has limited arm strength throwing outside the hashes
He can't throw with anticipation
He does not throw with accuaracy to leverage points with consistency
He moves poorly in the pocket.
He can't find secondary targets downfield
Jones can only excel in a single read and run offense.
Long past time to find another QB
If you are going to denigrate Jones at least get the issues he has correct.
His problem is slow to read the defense post snap and failing to pull the trigger.
But other than that.... they need a new QB that can read quickly and react.
I think you're correct, too. We're both correct. What did I say about Jones that was untrue.
75% of what y0u wrote. Example - his arm is plety strong to make any throw.
He is ok in the pocket, too - well if there is a pocket.
You repeat the same issue in different forms...
I would say Jones’s presnap adjustments aren’t terrible, but sorry, his pocket presence is bad. It’s gotten better, but it’s still not good.
Quote:
the physical ability in the QB class this year I don’t know what to tell you. Fortunately it’s so evident the coaching and playcalling for the top QBs is actually so darn pretty awful with some caveats for LSU. Frankly I like college QBs having to deal with adversity. Makes them tougher. Makes them learn and work harder to win.
Also not sure if you watched Jones his last year at Duke. Some real big stinkers in there. Yet on physical eye tests, the guy rose like helium to go in top 6.
Jones is also highly (over)paid now and highly injured.
Maye has a terrific arm and mechanics. Needs to get more experience and coached up. Mack Brown sucks as a head coach and his staff is not good.
Williams has some concerns with ball control and playing streetball too much but to me there is no waiting. He will be #1 pick no matter what or who has it.
Daniels I’m a little concerned about the build but the release and ball placement and decisionmaking is exceptional.
Nix is a real wild card to me. Wouldn’t stun me to see him go somewhere and be rushed into duty too quickly. Also wouldn’t stun me to see him go somewhere and in Burrow esque fashion take league by force.
The question I have for people is, pretend Williams didn't play last year. Who would rank him no. 1 on this year's play alone? Not saying he's not worth it, but think about that for a minute. The problem with draft pundits is that once a guy is annointed as a god, they never change their opinion of him. And if you weren't anointed a top pick preseason it's damn near impossible to break into the top group. That's Daniels' problem. If you just go on their play this year it's Daniels, Penix, and then some combo of Williams, Maye and Nix with McCarthy trying to crack that group. That's the Burrow lesson.
It's just like preseason polls. If you're not in the top five or six teams based on last season's results it's almost impossible to crack that group.
65% of his yards are YAC.
He's good, but he's benefitted from some crazy WR production.
He is a 5 year starter playing with a mostly returning cast against weak PAC-12 defenses. Against the SEC he did not look this good on a consistent basis. I honestly have Kenny Pickett concerns that the breakout this year is not due to factors that can translate. Pickett is a decent QB, but that team is built on the defense putting them in favorable positions. Without the defense he isn’t a playoff QB.
I would say Jones’s presnap adjustments aren’t terrible, but sorry, his pocket presence is bad. It’s gotten better, but it’s still not good.
Hard to judge when the D's are on him shortly after the snap.
A lot to like.
He also had 2 INT’s dropped. He was bad yesterday, and that has to be taken into account in his evaluation. It’s the only halfway decent defense he’s played against all year.
Really good college QB who has blossomed nicely since he got the hell out of Auburn after dealing with the pressure being a highly recruited legacy recruit.
But Nix really doesn't have any special physical tools. So, I see him as a day three opportunity who fits that "if he gets into the right system prospect" he could develop down the line...
But as long as Williams checks out without any red flags, I could get behind that in a big way.
But I'd also be ecstatic getting Penix, Nix or Daniels in round 2 or a trade up. I don't think any of us can really say for certain it's one way or the other.
Daniels will be a top 5 pick. He’s not making it to 15, no less the second round.
Quote:
I don't get the hype.
But as long as Williams checks out without any red flags, I could get behind that in a big way.
But I'd also be ecstatic getting Penix, Nix or Daniels in round 2 or a trade up. I don't think any of us can really say for certain it's one way or the other.
Daniels will be a top 5 pick. He’s not making it to 15, no less the second round.
Correct. The only way Daniels falls into round two is if a red flag pops up or he suffers some significant injury.
He's in the hunt for the top spot for sure.
Quote:
In comment 16293739 barens said:
Quote:
I don't get the hype.
But as long as Williams checks out without any red flags, I could get behind that in a big way.
But I'd also be ecstatic getting Penix, Nix or Daniels in round 2 or a trade up. I don't think any of us can really say for certain it's one way or the other.
Daniels will be a top 5 pick. He’s not making it to 15, no less the second round.
Correct. The only way Daniels falls into round two is if a red flag pops up or he suffers some significant injury.
He's in the hunt for the top spot for sure.
The more I watch them, Daniels may not have the highest upside but I think he has the best head of the top options this year. Interviews will matter, but I definitely could see a team needing a QB having him at the top of their board.
That said, with another injury and his cost going forward I think the Giants should draft a QB if they have conviction on one. If they don't, then trade back and address it another year though I would still add a QB after round 1 next draft.
I agree
Allen is a much better athlete and more dynamic. And Allen has an arm from Planet QB in another galaxy.
And I really like Maye. But that's a poor comp.
I’ve made the Allen comp for Maye, but I should have qualified it as he reminds A LITTLE of Allen. I think Allen is a much better comp that Herbert, that I don’t see. Herbert’s arm talent is off the charts, second only to Mahomes, IMO. Now Allen has a howitzer, but arm talent is more than just arm strength - it’s placement, touch, timing. I don’t see that in Maye, although yesterday was the first full game of his I’ve seen.
Quote:
Maye was reminding them of Allen?
Allen is a much better athlete and more dynamic. And Allen has an arm from Planet QB in another galaxy.
And I really like Maye. But that's a poor comp.
I’ve made the Allen comp for Maye, but I should have qualified it as he reminds A LITTLE of Allen. I think Allen is a much better comp that Herbert, that I don’t see. Herbert’s arm talent is off the charts, second only to Mahomes, IMO. Now Allen has a howitzer, but arm talent is more than just arm strength - it’s placement, touch, timing. I don’t see that in Maye, although yesterday was the first full game of his I’ve seen.
I don't like the Herbert comp, either.
When Maye is playing well, I see a lot of Joe Burrow. A crafty mover who doesn't panic and can throw a very catchable ball into tight areas.
@MySportsUpdate
·
1m
Caleb Williams in two seasons at USC:
• 599/888 (67%)
• 8,170 passing yards
• 518 rushing yards
• 72 passing TDs
• 21 rushing TDs
• 10 INTs
Unfortunately, statistics in college are absolutely useless in projecting NFL compatibility. The width of college hashmarks vs pro hashmarks makes football to be almost 2 different games. It's not discussed enough because it isn't sexy to talk about. Also, college DB's as a whole do not have NFL talent. Good college WR's are good vs that talent and it's not a lock that it translates to the pro game.
A few weeks ago, Marvin Harrison Jr. caught a 7 yard slant for a TD and the announcers went nuts about how talented he is. I'm sure he is, but that was no more than a warm up route not being touched by a DB. 2 different games in my opinion.
Williams I think has the floor of a complete bust whereas I think Daniels at the very least you are looking at an Alex Smith-type. There is something that really rubs me the wrong way about Williams’s leadership skills.
Do you know how absurd that is?
Touchdown Tommy! He's got the initials, LOL! Why not? Why not Tommy? He wouldn't be the first to make it from practice squad to franchise quarterback...