I generally like Schoen, but if Gettleman made that move, many of us would be turning over tables. Let's be real.
He had other choices, and he unnecessarily made a big monetary commitment to a player who had never shown any consistent improvement in consecutive years.
Schoen should have required Jones to show he could build upon the solid, if unspectacular year, he had in 2022.
And I would have defended it! At the very least I would have pushed the 'wait and see' approach :)
I've never seen anything like it in any sport. A guy who has accomplished so little has one of the most fanatically devoted followings you'll ever come across, and for what? A 2022 season they all trumpet where Jones threw for 3200 yards and 15 TDs?? A 2023 where he's been outplayed by a older journeyman backup and a UDFA rookie?
Is it possible that Jones gets healthy, goes somewhere else, and establishes himself with a second-half career renaissance like a Jim Plunkett or a Rich Gannon? Sure. It could happen. How much would anyone be willing to pay to make that bet? How many seasons have to be spent hoping that Jones blossoms as a passer, while also staying healthy?
The DJFC and their willingness to bend over backwards for everything Jones…one of the weirdest things I have ever seen following this team.
The Giants are already idiots for what they paid Jones
So what do we do, fire Schoen on the spot?
Certainly we can do better than an idiot as GM.
No, he won't be fired for this. But he burned some personal capital for certain unless Mara gave him a "Get Out Of Jail free" card by influencing him heavy to contract Jones (which I don't fully subscribe to).
And we are doing better than an idiot at GM...we got rid of Gettleman.
Despite never being a big fan, I've been very patient
at times over the years, even going as far as to defend him when I felt posters were unfairly critical or cherry-picked stats to criticize him. With that said, I don't know how anyone can still say that he's the best starting QB option for the team moving forward. It's year 5 and he's still processing at a glacial pace, that's just who he is and he doesn't have the arm talent or arm strength to compensate for it.
I've never seen anything like it in any sport. A guy who has accomplished so little has one of the most fanatically devoted followings you'll ever come across, and for what? A 2022 season they all trumpet where Jones threw for 3200 yards and 15 TDs?? A 2023 where he's been outplayed by a older journeyman backup and a UDFA rookie?
Is it possible that Jones gets healthy, goes somewhere else, and establishes himself with a second-half career renaissance like a Jim Plunkett or a Rich Gannon? Sure. It could happen. How much would anyone be willing to pay to make that bet? How many seasons have to be spent hoping that Jones blossoms as a passer, while also staying healthy?
The DJFC and their willingness to bend over backwards for everything Jones…one of the weirdest things I have ever seen following this team.
They love him. Sometimes people become so infatuated with a public figure they lose all grip with reality.
And we've got Philly in the division that are worlds ahead of NYG. And we debate Daniel Jones. What are we doing here?
I have felt this way with Jones since the end of 2020. I can't understand why we are spinning our wheels with Jones AND with Barkley. As Giants these guys have delivered worse football than we got in the Brown/Kanell/Graham years, which were always considered the worst for those of us that didn't experience the '70s.
I do not understand the connection to these players, and the fear of trying to improve. The fanbase and the media have lost all sense of what constitutes good football.
What I don't get is how you can watch Jones and think he can become a super bowl QB or even a legit top 10 QB?
Is there another example in NFL history or really even sports for that matter where a player was given such a long leash and magically turned it all around? At least with the same team who drafted him?
And we've got Philly in the division that are worlds ahead of NYG. And we debate Daniel Jones. What are we doing here?
I have felt this way with Jones since the end of 2020. I can't understand why we are spinning our wheels with Jones AND with Barkley. As Giants these guys have delivered worse football than we got in the Brown/Kanell/Graham years, which were always considered the worst for those of us that didn't experience the '70s.
I do not understand the connection to these players, and the fear of trying to improve. The fanbase and the media have lost all sense of what constitutes good football.
I get it with Barkley. Great college player from Penn State, really good pro who's fun to watch and very likeable and famous guy.
With Jones it baffles me. Don't you want to watch and enjoy a better product?
What I don't get is how you can watch Jones and think he can become a super bowl QB or even a legit top 10 QB?
Is there another example in NFL history or really even sports for that matter where a player was given such a long leash and magically turned it all around? At least with the same team who drafted him?
Somebody is going to say Phil Simms, I'll bet. They try to make that comparison all the time, no matter how many times people explain that it's not a good comparison.
It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
Bingo. All we hear from the DJFC is that his supporting cast sucks, we’ll, what if it’s Jones that is the one holding everyone back? This isn’t just speculation either. After years of “his WR’s don’t get any separation!”, this year, Giants WRs rank near the top of the league in separation. So they’ve moved on to pressure.
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer and should be the starter, but the fact that he was able to produce under the same pressure rates Jones was seeing dispels the myth that a QB can’t produce under those conditions.
I think a lot of the Jones stuff is superficial…hard worker, good kid, looks like Eli, also played under Cutliffe. They wanted Eli 2.0 even though Jones isn’t near Eli’s talent.
The thought of doubling down or running it back with Jones in ‘24 is nauseating.
I've seen Daboll's frustration on the field. It's jumped off the screen. I actually think Daboll looks more relaxed with DeVito playing (maybe that reflects expectations).
The only thing I know about Schoen, however, is he saw enough in Jones last year to make a considerable investment in him. And then openly expressed that he thought Jones was the solution for the future. He seemed very pleased.
So, I just don't know.
The wildcard is Mara. If Mara feels they made this investment in Jones, and the entire team collapsed around Jones, then Mara may pull the ownership card this time and want Schoen to give Jones yet another tryout.
Like it or not, the Daniel Jones contract is a new metric. For the next several off seasons, when people discuss how good or bad a prospective contract may be, it will be discussed in terms of how "Daniel Jones contract" it is. You will hear the question, "Is it Daniel Jones bad?" I've already heard it on reputable podcasts. "It's not a great contract, but it's not Daniel Jones bad". It is a metric for incompetence, a short hand descriptor for as bad as it gets when signing a QB. The Giants got so little production for their $100M I think it is fair to say it might be the worst contract in NFL history. 30th ranked or lower in most metrics, 2 TDs, one win. You have to laugh, because if you don't laugh, you'd cry. And Joe Schoen now has this enormous anvil on his resume. Sadly, because I do like him.
And when some of you guys come out here and insist it was a good contract, you really sound pathetic. Just fucking admit we threw a lot of dollars at a terrible player, already. The rest of the fucking world already knows this. They were saying it before the season started. You can't insist with a straight face it was a "good deal" or it was "good management". You just sound like a stooge.
Like it or not, the Daniel Jones contract is a new metric. For the next several off seasons, when people discuss how good or bad a prospective contract may be, it will be discussed in terms of how "Daniel Jones contract" it is. You will hear the question, "Is it Daniel Jones bad?" I've already heard it on reputable podcasts. "It's not a great contract, but it's not Daniel Jones bad". It is a metric for incompetence, a short hand descriptor for as bad as it gets when signing a QB. The Giants got so little production for their $100M I think it is fair to say it might be the worst contract in NFL history. 30th ranked or lower in most metrics, 2 TDs, one win. You have to laugh, because if you don't laugh, you'd cry. And Joe Schoen now has this enormous anvil on his resume. Sadly, because I do like him.
And when some of you guys come out here and insist it was a good contract, you really sound pathetic. Just fucking admit we threw a lot of dollars at a terrible player, already. The rest of the fucking world already knows this. They were saying it before the season started. You can't insist with a straight face it was a "good deal" or it was "good management". You just sound like a stooge.
Even the best GM's make big mistakes. You just don't want to make big mistakes that you can't recover from. They can recover from the Jones contract but for example, Cleveland can't recover from the Watson contract -- they're stuck with him.
It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
Bingo. All we hear from the DJFC is that his supporting cast sucks, we’ll, what if it’s Jones that is the one holding everyone back? This isn’t just speculation either. After years of “his WR’s don’t get any separation!”, this year, Giants WRs rank near the top of the league in separation. So they’ve moved on to pressure.
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer and should be the starter, but the fact that he was able to produce under the same pressure rates Jones was seeing dispels the myth that a QB can’t produce under those conditions.
That anyone still can’t see that is baffling.
I certainly have been one that has said in the past that expecting success from the qb the Giants OL and receivers would be a bit much. I am not sure about other fans who have said this, but sustained success is what I was referring to. The NFL has shown that any given Sunday anything can happen. This is not meant to defend Jones, I am all done with the Jones era (before the injuries hit this year). I don’t think DeVito’s single game of success has dispelled anything.
I can’t imagine that many fans would expect sustained success from the qb getting sacked and hit as much as DeVito did on Sunday. Yes, the qb played a big role in the hits, sacks, and pressure much like Jones has
Like it or not, the Daniel Jones contract is a new metric. For the next several off seasons, when people discuss how good or bad a prospective contract may be, it will be discussed in terms of how "Daniel Jones contract" it is. You will hear the question, "Is it Daniel Jones bad?" I've already heard it on reputable podcasts. "It's not a great contract, but it's not Daniel Jones bad". It is a metric for incompetence, a short hand descriptor for as bad as it gets when signing a QB. The Giants got so little production for their $100M I think it is fair to say it might be the worst contract in NFL history. 30th ranked or lower in most metrics, 2 TDs, one win. You have to laugh, because if you don't laugh, you'd cry. And Joe Schoen now has this enormous anvil on his resume. Sadly, because I do like him.
And when some of you guys come out here and insist it was a good contract, you really sound pathetic. Just fucking admit we threw a lot of dollars at a terrible player, already. The rest of the fucking world already knows this. They were saying it before the season started. You can't insist with a straight face it was a "good deal" or it was "good management". You just sound like a stooge.
Even the best GM's make big mistakes. You just don't want to make big mistakes that you can't recover from. They can recover from the Jones contract but for example, Cleveland can't recover from the Watson contract -- they're stuck with him.
I agree. I like Schoen. I hope he recovers. The Watson deal is bad. No doubt. But he was once close to elite and before he called it a season he played well in that last game. I don't know his medical outlook but if he comes back the same I could see him regaining his old form.
It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
You'll always have the Minnesota game.
One of the many things you said that would never happen and it did. Schoen wasn't going to sign him, Then he wasn't going XXXX money and he did.
Then you ran away.
Remember that?
No you here gloating because the of brutal start to the schedule and ridiculous injuries to the OL.
All pretending like you are the smart person and knew all along.
If only the Giants would listen to Terps.
You are just a volume posting troll, nothing more.
You want to rub someone's nose in the ground because he said Schoen shouldn't/wouldn't sign Daniel Jones?
And we all know now that he shouldn't have.
You are clueless.
I agree>
That is my point though. Terps has strong opinions on everything and he is wrong on at least half of them like everyone else.
So, he is going to be right often.
I am not impressed.
If he didn't run away before, I would have more tolerance.
I see a troll, sounds like you agree with Terps opinion on these things, so you defend him. That makes sense to me. Keep up the fight for the good ones. He deserves your support.
I don't defend or support posters. That is their own job.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Typically, there isn't a QB competition. Depending on the rook's talent and readiness he is put on a timetable. Some will start week 1. Some will be expected to take the reigns by week 6, or so. It's not a situation where Jones will be in a fair competition. They will transition to the rookie on his timeline, regardless if he can outplay Jones right away.
I give Eric, Terps, Arniefez and JonC(although Jon has to stay tighter lipped than I think he would like.) tons of credit for exposing the nepotism and the rot in the facility.
I think real change happened because of that. This is not even the second time I make that statement. I think out of all of them, it went to Terps head. His BBI minutes of fame, make him think more of himself than he is. I think he volume posts in threads(this is why he was reprimanded)the same shit over and over.
Terps got mad and left with his ball and bat. Because Terps is a troll, he probably has the highest reply rate of anyone on this site. He made a power play and Eric and the Mods didn't care. They never bow to big time time posters.
I love that.
He is back and I realize BBI was better when he was gone.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
RE: RE: RE: I don't defend or support posters. That is their own job.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
I agree that we do not. Daniel, Williams, Maye. I like Daniels, if I were a betting man I think we are going to move to draft Maye even if we win a few games.
Yeah, I don't know who they are going to pursue the most yet.
Not sure why that matters to even wager which one is their guy in November either. Too many variables are unknown as to draft process and the college season isn't even over for a while.
Nothing wrong with discussing them all as QB prospects though.
I think you're better than this, get your heart of the way of your brain.
Jones is done here, I get that. I don't like Terps at all. I think he is full of shit and when things didn't go his way.
He ran.
I have no respect for his opinion and he litters this board with it.
He is a troll.
Everyone knows the circumstances surrounding Terps's departure last season. Trying to misrepresent that to satisfy your own disdain for him is just a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
As for the "volume posting" complaint, I think it's funny that you never seem to complain about the frequency with which DJ's most ardent defenders post on DJ threads.
I think you're better than this, get your heart of the way of your brain.
Jones is done here, I get that. I don't like Terps at all. I think he is full of shit and when things didn't go his way.
He ran.
I have no respect for his opinion and he litters this board with it.
He is a troll.
Everyone knows the circumstances surrounding Terps's departure last season. Trying to misrepresent that to satisfy your own disdain for him is just a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
As for the "volume posting" complaint, I think it's funny that you never seem to complain about the frequency with which DJ's most ardent defenders post on DJ threads.
I know no such thing. I was in the thread that it blew up. He just being told it was too much and he was baby about it. It WAS the volume in which he was saying the same thing over and over. Pretty sure the mod used language close to that.
My opinion and it is strictly an opinion, he left after a bunch things he said was going to happen, the exact opposite happened. I don't believe the timing is a coincidence. He used the gentle reprimand from the mod as an excuse to run. He usually has a much tougher skin.
He has 13 total rush TDs in his career. He had 7 last year
For context Sam Darnold has 12 rush TDs on his career. Lamar Jackson has 29 rush TDs
So even if you want to give Jones the rush TD credit he has just 75 TDs on his career in 58 games and had 22 total TDs last season
It really doesn’t demonstrably change things about his career or season stats. And DeVito had a rush TD this year as well BTW
The rush TDs are great.
However, defenses have figured out if you take that away, Jones struggles to be productive throwing the football.
On top of that, Jones now has had two major injuries (neck in 2021 and ACL this year) for a QB who makes a living with his feet?
The narrative was Jones wasn't throwing TDs because the OL sucked and/or the coaches sucked.
Again, in his second start, an undrafted rookie who had limited practice snaps since being signed by the team just did something Jones couldn't do in four years. That's a huge red flag for Jones on top of everything else now.
That's my point.
DeVito may suck the rest of the way. He may be benched. He may be out of the NFL in a year or two.
But he has six TDs. Jones has two.
We should replace Daniel Jones.
It is the same context used to explain away last year(easy schedule)
Jones had a brutal gauntlet without his LT. He was behind early and by big numbers. Eric that's waaaaay different from playing the COmmnders with a lead the entire game and how many turnovers?
How many turnovers did we produce in the first 5 games?
Anyone?
Do turnovers correlate strongly to winning? asking for a friend.
Jones is toast, he needed to win.
Jones failed.
There is some intellectual dishonesty going in regards to this situation, though.
Everyone just wants to be right, more important than enjoying Sunday to many.
It is all very gray.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't defend or support posters. That is their own job.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
I agree that we do not. Daniel, Williams, Maye. I like Daniels, if I were a betting man I think we are going to move to draft Maye even if we win a few games.
I wouldn't move to draft him. I'd hope to have a shot at Daniels or McCarthy. Any lower, then Nix.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't defend or support posters. That is their own job.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
I agree that we do not. Daniel, Williams, Maye. I like Daniels, if I were a betting man I think we are going to move to draft Maye even if we win a few games.
I wouldn't move to draft him. I'd hope to have a shot at Daniels or McCarthy. Any lower, then Nix.
Here's the thing. We should have moved for Mahomes. If they LOVE a guy, and really, really, believe, he is the one. Move heaven and earth and go get him, if QB hell is signing the wrong QB, what is drafting QB busts over and over? Is that QB purgatory or is that the abyss?
I do want better than Daniel Jones, I wasn't willing to throw him away until his body failed him. I believe an offense tailored to Jones would allow him to win. He was never going to be Aaron Rodgers or Herbert. Unlike many, I have NEVER tried to compare. I thought he had enough talent to win with. I hope the QB lottery works like everyone hopes.
It usually doesn't though.
I want DANIELS(Thanks BW, I have enjoyed watching his games(ones I can find enough of, don't like highlights)
It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
C'mon man. You paraded around BBI last season and the offseason policing the forum like FMIC calling all of us who dare question the Giants paying Jones a moron. Yet you are still saying it was a "good contract." The contract is a disaster.
All of us, including Terps, still hoped for the best this season. We are Giant fans. He isn't a troll just because you don't agree with his thoughts on Jones and the organization.
Even Dallas is worlds ahead of NYG
He had other choices, and he unnecessarily made a big monetary commitment to a player who had never shown any consistent improvement in consecutive years.
Schoen should have required Jones to show he could build upon the solid, if unspectacular year, he had in 2022.
And I would have defended it! At the very least I would have pushed the 'wait and see' approach :)
So what do we do, fire Schoen on the spot?
Certainly we can do better than an idiot as GM.
Is it possible that Jones gets healthy, goes somewhere else, and establishes himself with a second-half career renaissance like a Jim Plunkett or a Rich Gannon? Sure. It could happen. How much would anyone be willing to pay to make that bet? How many seasons have to be spent hoping that Jones blossoms as a passer, while also staying healthy?
The DJFC and their willingness to bend over backwards for everything Jones…one of the weirdest things I have ever seen following this team.
Reddit LOL
Quote:
The Giants are already idiots for what they paid Jones
So what do we do, fire Schoen on the spot?
Certainly we can do better than an idiot as GM.
No, he won't be fired for this. But he burned some personal capital for certain unless Mara gave him a "Get Out Of Jail free" card by influencing him heavy to contract Jones (which I don't fully subscribe to).
And we are doing better than an idiot at GM...we got rid of Gettleman.
Great point here. Whenever you need to tout when you get an "out" of a big deal when the ink isn't even dry than you know you made a mistake.
Schoen made a big mistake. Now the test is if he will learn from it and fix it.
Quote:
I've never seen anything like it in any sport. A guy who has accomplished so little has one of the most fanatically devoted followings you'll ever come across, and for what? A 2022 season they all trumpet where Jones threw for 3200 yards and 15 TDs?? A 2023 where he's been outplayed by a older journeyman backup and a UDFA rookie?
Is it possible that Jones gets healthy, goes somewhere else, and establishes himself with a second-half career renaissance like a Jim Plunkett or a Rich Gannon? Sure. It could happen. How much would anyone be willing to pay to make that bet? How many seasons have to be spent hoping that Jones blossoms as a passer, while also staying healthy?
The DJFC and their willingness to bend over backwards for everything Jones…one of the weirdest things I have ever seen following this team.
They love him. Sometimes people become so infatuated with a public figure they lose all grip with reality.
I have felt this way with Jones since the end of 2020. I can't understand why we are spinning our wheels with Jones AND with Barkley. As Giants these guys have delivered worse football than we got in the Brown/Kanell/Graham years, which were always considered the worst for those of us that didn't experience the '70s.
I do not understand the connection to these players, and the fear of trying to improve. The fanbase and the media have lost all sense of what constitutes good football.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
Is there another example in NFL history or really even sports for that matter where a player was given such a long leash and magically turned it all around? At least with the same team who drafted him?
The contract for Jones is bad, but it's not crippling. Schoen will draft a QB in 2024 and take his medicine with the Jones contract.
Most of us absolutely think that should be the strategy.
I'm just not viewing it as a given with Schoen.
Hopefully Daboll can convince him because I think he's there.
Quote:
I think the DeVito performance really hurt Jones. He was on shaky ground before the ACL.
The contract for Jones is bad, but it's not crippling. Schoen will draft a QB in 2024 and take his medicine with the Jones contract.
Most of us absolutely think that should be the strategy.
I'm just not viewing it as a given with Schoen.
Hopefully Daboll can convince him because I think he's there.
What leads you to believe Daboll and Schoen aren't in lockstep?
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And we've got Philly in the division that are worlds ahead of NYG. And we debate Daniel Jones. What are we doing here?
I have felt this way with Jones since the end of 2020. I can't understand why we are spinning our wheels with Jones AND with Barkley. As Giants these guys have delivered worse football than we got in the Brown/Kanell/Graham years, which were always considered the worst for those of us that didn't experience the '70s.
I do not understand the connection to these players, and the fear of trying to improve. The fanbase and the media have lost all sense of what constitutes good football.
I get it with Barkley. Great college player from Penn State, really good pro who's fun to watch and very likeable and famous guy.
With Jones it baffles me. Don't you want to watch and enjoy a better product?
Is there another example in NFL history or really even sports for that matter where a player was given such a long leash and magically turned it all around? At least with the same team who drafted him?
Somebody is going to say Phil Simms, I'll bet. They try to make that comparison all the time, no matter how many times people explain that it's not a good comparison.
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
Now, now.
Bingo. All we hear from the DJFC is that his supporting cast sucks, we’ll, what if it’s Jones that is the one holding everyone back? This isn’t just speculation either. After years of “his WR’s don’t get any separation!”, this year, Giants WRs rank near the top of the league in separation. So they’ve moved on to pressure.
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer and should be the starter, but the fact that he was able to produce under the same pressure rates Jones was seeing dispels the myth that a QB can’t produce under those conditions.
That anyone still can’t see that is baffling.
The thought of doubling down or running it back with Jones in ‘24 is nauseating.
The only thing I know about Schoen, however, is he saw enough in Jones last year to make a considerable investment in him. And then openly expressed that he thought Jones was the solution for the future. He seemed very pleased.
So, I just don't know.
The wildcard is Mara. If Mara feels they made this investment in Jones, and the entire team collapsed around Jones, then Mara may pull the ownership card this time and want Schoen to give Jones yet another tryout.
And when some of you guys come out here and insist it was a good contract, you really sound pathetic. Just fucking admit we threw a lot of dollars at a terrible player, already. The rest of the fucking world already knows this. They were saying it before the season started. You can't insist with a straight face it was a "good deal" or it was "good management". You just sound like a stooge.
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
You'll always have the Minnesota game.
And when some of you guys come out here and insist it was a good contract, you really sound pathetic. Just fucking admit we threw a lot of dollars at a terrible player, already. The rest of the fucking world already knows this. They were saying it before the season started. You can't insist with a straight face it was a "good deal" or it was "good management". You just sound like a stooge.
Even the best GM's make big mistakes. You just don't want to make big mistakes that you can't recover from. They can recover from the Jones contract but for example, Cleveland can't recover from the Watson contract -- they're stuck with him.
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
Bingo. All we hear from the DJFC is that his supporting cast sucks, we’ll, what if it’s Jones that is the one holding everyone back? This isn’t just speculation either. After years of “his WR’s don’t get any separation!”, this year, Giants WRs rank near the top of the league in separation. So they’ve moved on to pressure.
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer and should be the starter, but the fact that he was able to produce under the same pressure rates Jones was seeing dispels the myth that a QB can’t produce under those conditions.
That anyone still can’t see that is baffling.
I certainly have been one that has said in the past that expecting success from the qb the Giants OL and receivers would be a bit much. I am not sure about other fans who have said this, but sustained success is what I was referring to. The NFL has shown that any given Sunday anything can happen. This is not meant to defend Jones, I am all done with the Jones era (before the injuries hit this year). I don’t think DeVito’s single game of success has dispelled anything.
I can’t imagine that many fans would expect sustained success from the qb getting sacked and hit as much as DeVito did on Sunday. Yes, the qb played a big role in the hits, sacks, and pressure much like Jones has
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Like it or not, the Daniel Jones contract is a new metric. For the next several off seasons, when people discuss how good or bad a prospective contract may be, it will be discussed in terms of how "Daniel Jones contract" it is. You will hear the question, "Is it Daniel Jones bad?" I've already heard it on reputable podcasts. "It's not a great contract, but it's not Daniel Jones bad". It is a metric for incompetence, a short hand descriptor for as bad as it gets when signing a QB. The Giants got so little production for their $100M I think it is fair to say it might be the worst contract in NFL history. 30th ranked or lower in most metrics, 2 TDs, one win. You have to laugh, because if you don't laugh, you'd cry. And Joe Schoen now has this enormous anvil on his resume. Sadly, because I do like him.
And when some of you guys come out here and insist it was a good contract, you really sound pathetic. Just fucking admit we threw a lot of dollars at a terrible player, already. The rest of the fucking world already knows this. They were saying it before the season started. You can't insist with a straight face it was a "good deal" or it was "good management". You just sound like a stooge.
Even the best GM's make big mistakes. You just don't want to make big mistakes that you can't recover from. They can recover from the Jones contract but for example, Cleveland can't recover from the Watson contract -- they're stuck with him.
I agree. I like Schoen. I hope he recovers. The Watson deal is bad. No doubt. But he was once close to elite and before he called it a season he played well in that last game. I don't know his medical outlook but if he comes back the same I could see him regaining his old form.
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In comment 16298233 Go Terps said:
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
You'll always have the Minnesota game.
Then you ran away.
Remember that?
No you here gloating because the of brutal start to the schedule and ridiculous injuries to the OL.
All pretending like you are the smart person and knew all along.
If only the Giants would listen to Terps.
You are just a volume posting troll, nothing more.
He ran.
I have no respect for his opinion and he litters this board with it.
He is a troll.
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In comment 16298306 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16298233 Go Terps said:
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
You'll always have the Minnesota game.
One of the many things you said that would never happen and it did. Schoen wasn't going to sign him, Then he wasn't going XXXX money and he did.
Then you ran away.
Remember that?
No you here gloating because the of brutal start to the schedule and ridiculous injuries to the OL.
All pretending like you are the smart person and knew all along.
If only the Giants would listen to Terps.
You are just a volume posting troll, nothing more.
He assumed Schoen was operating logically with proper analysis in mind.
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In comment 16298306 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16298233 Go Terps said:
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
You'll always have the Minnesota game.
One of the many things you said that would never happen and it did. Schoen wasn't going to sign him, Then he wasn't going XXXX money and he did.
Then you ran away.
Remember that?
No you here gloating because the of brutal start to the schedule and ridiculous injuries to the OL.
All pretending like you are the smart person and knew all along.
If only the Giants would listen to Terps.
You are just a volume posting troll, nothing more.
You want to rub someone's nose in the ground because he said Schoen shouldn't/wouldn't sign Daniel Jones?
And we all know now that he shouldn't have.
You are clueless.
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In comment 16298348 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16298306 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16298233 Go Terps said:
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
You'll always have the Minnesota game.
One of the many things you said that would never happen and it did. Schoen wasn't going to sign him, Then he wasn't going XXXX money and he did.
Then you ran away.
Remember that?
No you here gloating because the of brutal start to the schedule and ridiculous injuries to the OL.
All pretending like you are the smart person and knew all along.
If only the Giants would listen to Terps.
You are just a volume posting troll, nothing more.
You want to rub someone's nose in the ground because he said Schoen shouldn't/wouldn't sign Daniel Jones?
And we all know now that he shouldn't have.
You are clueless.
That is my point though. Terps has strong opinions on everything and he is wrong on at least half of them like everyone else.
So, he is going to be right often.
I am not impressed.
If he didn't run away before, I would have more tolerance.
I see a troll, sounds like you agree with Terps opinion on these things, so you defend him. That makes sense to me. Keep up the fight for the good ones. He deserves your support.
And yours aren't very good gratefulhead.
And yours aren't very good gratefulhead.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
The exception is a Jordan Love situation.
I think real change happened because of that. This is not even the second time I make that statement. I think out of all of them, it went to Terps head. His BBI minutes of fame, make him think more of himself than he is. I think he volume posts in threads(this is why he was reprimanded)the same shit over and over.
Terps got mad and left with his ball and bat. Because Terps is a troll, he probably has the highest reply rate of anyone on this site. He made a power play and Eric and the Mods didn't care. They never bow to big time time posters.
I love that.
He is back and I realize BBI was better when he was gone.
Is what it is.
I can live with it.
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But I will support sound opinions.
And yours aren't very good gratefulhead.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
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In comment 16298378 ThomasG said:
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But I will support sound opinions.
And yours aren't very good gratefulhead.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
Nothing wrong with discussing them all as QB prospects though.
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I think you're better than this, get your heart of the way of your brain.
Jones is done here, I get that. I don't like Terps at all. I think he is full of shit and when things didn't go his way.
He ran.
I have no respect for his opinion and he litters this board with it.
He is a troll.
Everyone knows the circumstances surrounding Terps's departure last season. Trying to misrepresent that to satisfy your own disdain for him is just a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
As for the "volume posting" complaint, I think it's funny that you never seem to complain about the frequency with which DJ's most ardent defenders post on DJ threads.
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In comment 16298360 JonC said:
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I think you're better than this, get your heart of the way of your brain.
Jones is done here, I get that. I don't like Terps at all. I think he is full of shit and when things didn't go his way.
He ran.
I have no respect for his opinion and he litters this board with it.
He is a troll.
Everyone knows the circumstances surrounding Terps's departure last season. Trying to misrepresent that to satisfy your own disdain for him is just a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
As for the "volume posting" complaint, I think it's funny that you never seem to complain about the frequency with which DJ's most ardent defenders post on DJ threads.
My opinion and it is strictly an opinion, he left after a bunch things he said was going to happen, the exact opposite happened. I don't believe the timing is a coincidence. He used the gentle reprimand from the mod as an excuse to run. He usually has a much tougher skin.
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He has 13 total rush TDs in his career. He had 7 last year
For context Sam Darnold has 12 rush TDs on his career. Lamar Jackson has 29 rush TDs
So even if you want to give Jones the rush TD credit he has just 75 TDs on his career in 58 games and had 22 total TDs last season
It really doesn’t demonstrably change things about his career or season stats. And DeVito had a rush TD this year as well BTW
The rush TDs are great.
However, defenses have figured out if you take that away, Jones struggles to be productive throwing the football.
On top of that, Jones now has had two major injuries (neck in 2021 and ACL this year) for a QB who makes a living with his feet?
The narrative was Jones wasn't throwing TDs because the OL sucked and/or the coaches sucked.
Again, in his second start, an undrafted rookie who had limited practice snaps since being signed by the team just did something Jones couldn't do in four years. That's a huge red flag for Jones on top of everything else now.
That's my point.
DeVito may suck the rest of the way. He may be benched. He may be out of the NFL in a year or two.
But he has six TDs. Jones has two.
It is the same context used to explain away last year(easy schedule)
Jones had a brutal gauntlet without his LT. He was behind early and by big numbers. Eric that's waaaaay different from playing the COmmnders with a lead the entire game and how many turnovers?
How many turnovers did we produce in the first 5 games?
Anyone?
Do turnovers correlate strongly to winning? asking for a friend.
Jones is toast, he needed to win.
Jones failed.
There is some intellectual dishonesty going in regards to this situation, though.
Everyone just wants to be right, more important than enjoying Sunday to many.
It is all very gray.
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In comment 16298394 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16298378 ThomasG said:
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But I will support sound opinions.
And yours aren't very good gratefulhead.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
I agree that we do not. Daniel, Williams, Maye. I like Daniels, if I were a betting man I think we are going to move to draft Maye even if we win a few games.
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In comment 16298412 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16298394 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16298378 ThomasG said:
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But I will support sound opinions.
And yours aren't very good gratefulhead.
My take on Jones appears wrong. Even if he had talent, it no longer matters.
We need another QB, time to move on.
People can call the signing a mistake.
It was, based on hindsight.
At the time, there was no possible he was not resigning with this team unless his demands were in orbit. I still think Schoen did an extremely good job. I feel like Schoen was at a position of weakness at the table. He was able to get the QB signed to deal with an out in 2 years. We can debate context as to the why that is nothing more than speculation until the sun goes out.
We won a playoff game and had enjoyable and unexpected season last year. I am not a SB or the season is a failure guy. This year has been bad so far, but it isn't over yet. I suspect we draft a QB early.
There will be a competition and Jones is going to go to work. It will be good for any rookie to see. Jones will likely beat the rookie out.
GOOD
Let him watch a few games until Jones injures himself and his career ends.
Hopefully, the rookie will not be a bust.
Statistically speaking, a bust more likely than not.
Even though I say that, I feel it would be criminal not to draft a QB high in 2024.
Agree with some of this, and plenty I don't.
Nevertheless, moving on from Jones is a good thought. And it doesn't matter that players sometimes bust...the Giants still need try and find their guy at QB.
Because we don't have him yet.
I agree that we do not. Daniel, Williams, Maye. I like Daniels, if I were a betting man I think we are going to move to draft Maye even if we win a few games.
I wouldn't move to draft him. I'd hope to have a shot at Daniels or McCarthy. Any lower, then Nix.
I do want better than Daniel Jones, I wasn't willing to throw him away until his body failed him. I believe an offense tailored to Jones would allow him to win. He was never going to be Aaron Rodgers or Herbert. Unlike many, I have NEVER tried to compare. I thought he had enough talent to win with. I hope the QB lottery works like everyone hopes.
It usually doesn't though.
I want DANIELS(Thanks BW, I have enjoyed watching his games(ones I can find enough of, don't like highlights)
These aren't the type of injuries for which teams dump a franchise quarterback.
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It's becoming increasingly clear that the supporting cast has been carrying a shit quarterback, and not the other way around.
It would not be good for the New York Giants if Jones finishes rehab early and starts the season opener and plays very well.
He is an injury risk and it would not be wise to miss the opportunity to move on.
But if Jones plays well you will disappear.
Kinda worth it.
C'mon man. You paraded around BBI last season and the offseason policing the forum like FMIC calling all of us who dare question the Giants paying Jones a moron. Yet you are still saying it was a "good contract." The contract is a disaster.
All of us, including Terps, still hoped for the best this season. We are Giant fans. He isn't a troll just because you don't agree with his thoughts on Jones and the organization.