Challenge: I want to install a French Cleat wall but can't drill into the wall behind to hold it in place.
My house was built in 1937. The basement is lined with hollow structural clay blocks (not concrete or cinder blocks). It's divided into several rooms. One existing rectangular room has exterior walls south and east, interior walls north and west. All clay block. I'd like to put up French Cleats on one or both interior walls.
However, it's neither practical nor desirable to drill into structural clay blocks. They're extremely hard but brittle, and are prone to cracking if you try to drill them. Also, the point of the hollow blocks is to contain water within, so you don't want holes in them. There are some holes in the wall around the basement where it looks like someone tried to attach something to the wall, without success, and I've had workmen tell me those holes need to be filled.
The floor joists are exposed above.
This basement isn't suitable for studs and drywall, for several reasons. Not least is that at certain times of year and under certain weather conditions, the walls get damp and some water gets in, so the humidity goes way, way up. Whatever I put up has to be open enough so we can clean the walls in case we get mildew or mold. (We have run a dehumidifier continuously since we moved in and that mostly keeps the humidity around 30%.) Also, it's only 6'-11" from floor to joists so it can't be made into legal living space, and it's not worth the cost to try to fully finish it.
Also, note that the clay block is painted, which complicates the use of adhesive on it. I don't want to strip it. Too much work and it may have lead paint.
So I want to make a French Cleat wall that only relies on the joists above, otherwise supports its own weight. Thinking about the following idea, though this isn't the order of steps for building the thing.
1) Attach 2x4 cleat to each joist overhead,
2) Secure 1x4 or 1x6 to each cleat (could use 5/4 stock but not 2x)
3) Run 1x vertically, from the cleat to the floor, with the lumber flat against the wall.
3a) Optional: Run 2x2 or 2x4 footer across the bottom. I'd probably have to chisel out notches for the verticals.
3b) Optional: Secure the 1x verticals to the tile wall with epoxy adhesive.
4) Attach horizontal French Cleat rails to the 1x. This leaves a 3/4" gap behind the French Cleats, so I'd have to build anything I hang on them with 3/4" spacers along the back bottom, so they don't tip forward. No problem.
Does this system sound like it'll work? I'd like it to bear tool holders and/or cabinets. Not as strong as attaching to studs, but there are no studs.
I can think of alternatives but they all rely on the cleats and 1x verticals to support the weight of the system.
If I can get this to work there are several walls in the basement where I'd want to do this, all interior walls so they don't get as damp or fill up with water.
"(1) Attach 2x4 cleat to each joist overhead...do you mean top plate?" A cleat has a 45 degree angle cut into it.
"3a) Optional: Run 2x2 or 2x4 footer across the bottom"...Do you mean a sill plate? Why would you have to..."I'd probably have to chisel out notches for the verticals."
A 1x finish board is about or more cost than a 2x board. I'd just build a proper wall and have something that would last a lifetime, plus provide space for insulation it you choose to in the future.
If gluing is an option, you could look into the insofast wall system.
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Attach a 2x4 plate to the joists at the top. Run a plate on the ground (you can shoot into a concrete floor using a nail gun like the one linked below) if you can. Otherwise, it can just kind of float, I suppose. Then run your vertical studs. Since it's not really structural, I don't think you'd need to stick to 16" on center, but that would be your call.
Then just run your french cleats over that. It'll be open enough to let the moisture evaporate and you still get a nice, structurually sound french cleat system. You could even paint it to match the wall behind it. If you wanted even more space to improve the ventilation, just throw some 1/2" or 3/4" spacers on the wallside part of your 2x4 framing every couple feet so the majority of your frame isn't touching the wall.
Hammershot - ( New Window )
Attach a 2x4 plate to the joists at the top. Run a plate on the ground (you can shoot into a concrete floor using a nail gun like the one linked below) if you can. Otherwise, it can just kind of float, I suppose. Then run your vertical studs. Since it's not really structural, I don't think you'd need to stick to 16" on center, but that would be your call.
Then just run your french cleats over that. It'll be open enough to let the moisture evaporate and you still get a nice, structurually sound french cleat system. You could even paint it to match the wall behind it. If you wanted even more space to improve the ventilation, just throw some 1/2" or 3/4" spacers on the wallside part of your 2x4 framing every couple feet so the majority of your frame isn't touching the wall. Hammershot - ( New Window )
This! Though I would consider the potential movement in the slab and consider integrating a slip joint so that slab movement will not compromise the wall.
There are pro products that substitute for drywall in basements but I'm not going doing that, either. A man's got to know his limitations.
"(1) Attach 2x4 cleat to each joist overhead...do you mean top plate?" A cleat has a 45 degree angle cut into it.
I'm being imprecise and inconsistent in my terms. I really mean basically a 2x4 nailing block that I can attach to the floor joist overhead. Attach one side of the block to the joist, an adjoining side to the vertical.
I'm familiar with the term "sill plate" but with a different meaning. I'm talking about a piece of 2x run horizontally along the base of the wall.
Appreciate the thought but this is the last room in the basement I'd finish that way, Literally the last; there are three other parts of the basement that are more suitable for proper interior wall, if I wanted to make that investment. (I don't.) I only want this room for storage, at least for now. It's too damp for DIY walls, even with metal studs, and it's beyond my budget to have it professionaly waterproofed. There is another room in the basement we'd consider for that treatment, but not this room.
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I'm about 90% sure I'd have to tear out the sheetrock in a few months due to mold growing behind it. It's a damp space.
Have thought of nailing to the concrete. I have to ponder that. There are old shelves in this room that were quite warped when we moved in; some have recovered since we started running the dehumidifier. I'm going to have to pull out those old shelves because they haven't survived the damp very well. I'm not sure what'll happen to new lumber once I put it in, even if I use treated lumber and paint with Killz or something.
It'll be open enough to let the moisture evaporate and you still get a nice, structurually sound french cleat system.
That's what I'm thinking.
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I get the internal moisture issues and wanting/needing to keep it somewhat open, but why wouldn't you frame it like you would a normal wall and just not put the sheetrock over it?
Attach a 2x4 plate to the joists at the top. Run a plate on the ground (you can shoot into a concrete floor using a nail gun like the one linked below) if you can. Otherwise, it can just kind of float, I suppose. Then run your vertical studs. Since it's not really structural, I don't think you'd need to stick to 16" on center, but that would be your call.
Then just run your french cleats over that. It'll be open enough to let the moisture evaporate and you still get a nice, structurually sound french cleat system. You could even paint it to match the wall behind it. If you wanted even more space to improve the ventilation, just throw some 1/2" or 3/4" spacers on the wallside part of your 2x4 framing every couple feet so the majority of your frame isn't touching the wall. Hammershot - ( New Window )
This! Though I would consider the potential movement in the slab and consider integrating a slip joint so that slab movement will not compromise the wall.