We’re 2/3 through this season. What does BBI think about bring Saquon back for next season on the franchise tag? Keep in mind the franchise goes up to over $12 million for being franchised a second time. What does BBI say?
going to create an internal shit storm- but what are our other options?
Trade him for a 3rd round pick? No thanks
Pay him $15M a year on a long term deal? No thanks
going to create an internal shit storm- but what are our other options?
Trade him for a 3rd round pick? No thanks
Pay him $15M a year on a long term deal? No thanks
going to create an internal shit storm- but what are our other options?
Trade him for a 3rd round pick? No thanks
Pay him $15M a year on a long term deal? No thanks
You let him hit Free agency and walk.
Even worse than not trading him for a 3rd round pick is when he signs with the Eagles, and Giants get a 4th round compensatory pick.
make it a 4 year deal and get out of it in 2 if neccessary. He does not take that many hits but the ankle is a problem. Certainly better than over paying for a WR who you would have to pay double for the same production.
I am not advocating signing him to deal. The window to sign him to a long term deal was last offseason. He’s a year older and has more mileage. I am advocating a 1 year deal on the franchise tag.
I am not advocating signing him to deal. The window to sign him to a long term deal was last offseason. He’s a year older and has more mileage. I am advocating a 1 year deal on the franchise tag.
To a long term deal - (3 to 4 year deal with an out after 2)
Why not? He’s still a good player, and would be helpful to a rookie QB. A rookie RB could not be counted on to pass protect for a rookie QB, and you’d still pay 5-6 million a season for a veteran RB.
Worrying too much about Saquon and not just tagging Jones this past year.
Hopefully he improves as a GM too.
This decision would have nothing to do with needing to sign Jones and fitting both players in. The Giants estimated to have 47 mill in cap space next season. They could fit him in.
He has value, but is an overpaid luxury for this stage of the rebuild. The right answer was to have traded him two weeks ago. The next best move is to tag him with the intent to trade him to someone who will give him the contract he wants. That ensures we get some much needed draft capital in advance of the 2024 draft.
Just letting him walk out the door or signing him to an extended contract with his injury history makes no sense to this franchise at this time. Schoen needs to get this precisely right after completely screwing it up last year.
Why not? He’s still a good player, and would be helpful to a rookie QB. A rookie RB could not be counted on to pass protect for a rookie QB, and you’d still pay 5-6 million a season for a veteran RB.
Here's a list of FA RBs. Pick any two of the cheapest, draft a guy on Day 3, and let them compete with Gray and Brightwell in camp. Do not spend real money in this area.
Barkley has been here six years. For six years this offense has stunk. If we can stink with him, we can stink without him.
is too much for a RB who is often injured. Love the person and the player, but where this team is and where is career is are not a match. I would tag and trade if that is possible.
Why not? He’s still a good player, and would be helpful to a rookie QB. A rookie RB could not be counted on to pass protect for a rookie QB, and you’d still pay 5-6 million a season for a veteran RB.
Here's a list of FA RBs. Pick any two of the cheapest, draft a guy on Day 3, and let them compete with Gray and Brightwell in camp. Do not spend real money in this area.
Barkley has been here six years. For six years this offense has stunk. If we can stink with him, we can stink without him.
The Giants are going to have a rookie QB next season, you can’t just place anyone back there. You need a competent pass blocker to protect your young QB. Even a washed up RB like Zeke or Cook is costing you 5-7 million a year.
2-3 year deal, with whatever guaranteed $ the market suggests. He's a Giant and I don't want to see this offense without him (and likely a rookie QB). RB $ isn't going to break the bank. And we have so many needs, I'd prefer not to have to use a premium draft pick on a RB.
puts us in the position of either (1) having to use a high draft pick on a RB or (2) spending alit of $ anyway to replace him and getting Breida/Grey/Brightwell level production. No thanks to either.
puts us in the position of either (1) having to use a high draft pick on a RB or (2) spending alit of $ anyway to replace him and getting Breida/Grey/Brightwell level production. No thanks to either.
Why?
Plenty of teams take RBs late in the draft and plenty of teams don’t pay too $$$ for their RBs.
puts us in the position of either (1) having to use a high draft pick on a RB or (2) spending alit of $ anyway to replace him and getting Breida/Grey/Brightwell level production. No thanks to either.
Why?
Plenty of teams take RBs late in the draft and plenty of teams don’t pay too $$$ for their RBs.
Who’s your primary RB if you let him go? You can’t depend on a late round rookie.
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
make it a 4 year deal and get out of it in 2 if neccessary. He does not take that many hits but the ankle is a problem. Certainly better than over paying for a WR who you would have to pay double for the same production.
The franchise tender for running backs next year is $13.1M.
If you're Team Barkley, you certainly aren't taking the tender with a smile. It's the last realistic chance he has to sign a multi-year agreement.
If you're Schoen, are you giving Barkley 26M+ in guarantees?
Normally if a team gives twice the franchise tender, what they want back is more years of team control. But does Schoen really want four years of Barkley?
puts us in the position of either (1) having to use a high draft pick on a RB or (2) spending alit of $ anyway to replace him and getting Breida/Grey/Brightwell level production. No thanks to either.
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Well played sir.
No doubt that is the danger to my suggested move.
It just feels like a waste to get nothing for him.
TBD on if a longer deal should be offered as mentioned above.
The Bills have actually been average to not good enough for years running the ball with the backs. Romo was another analyst who mentioned this yesterday and one of the reason I was not so high on this regime coming to the NYG.
I wish the Giants were better prepared to move on from SB with both a better OL and backs behind him. Then the decision to move on is easy imv.
Barkley is averaging 100 yards from scrimmage, including 80 yards on the ground.
And not surprisingly the Giants are averaging the fewest yards per game in the NFL at 262 per game.
In a moment of You couldn't write it any better, what the Giants need is for less of their productivity to come from their running backs rushing the ball.
Who the running back is, is a distant factor. The Giants need to generate more yards on the air.
The FT next year for RBs is $13.1M. As others have said, the Bills, Eagles, and Dolphins are paying $6M or less combined for all of their RBs. Saquon has been a warrior, but this is a business, and he's aging and injured. Keaton for Baltimore is a UDFA rookie and has played very well. I would let him go in FA. Same for Breida.
earlier in the season I would have said to let him go, but when I see Breida in there, and he was a decent back when he was with the 49ers, there is a marked difference. I'm not impressed with either Brightwell or Gray either.
I don't know, but whatever they do, I hope it works out.
need to significantly increase both the carries and yards from the backs next season. It is critical to offensive football especially in this division and conference. More so if they wind up going with a rookie QB.
SB's numbers have not been great by any measure running the ball but they are significantly better than when he was out which was some of the worst rushing you would see in the league. In any year.
They had a great chance to beat both the Jets and Bills and on offense SB was the clear reason why.
Worrying too much about Saquon and not just tagging Jones this past year.
Hopefully he improves as a GM too.
This decision would have nothing to do with needing to sign Jones and fitting both players in. The Giants estimated to have 47 mill in cap space next season. They could fit him in.
I lean yes because regardless of the teams position on the QB he would be an asset for us. If I am him I ask them to let me hit the market and try to sign with a really good team to finish my career. My fear is the cowboys sign him.
The franchise tender for running backs next year is $13.1M.
If you're Team Barkley, you certainly aren't taking the tender with a smile. It's the last realistic chance he has to sign a multi-year agreement.
If you're Schoen, are you giving Barkley 26M+ in guarantees?
Normally if a team gives twice the franchise tender, what they want back is more years of team control. But does Schoen really want four years of Barkley?
Well put as to the issue in each camp.
It will be another test for our GM. Let see if he is growing into the job and lets Saquon head into free agency.
or is Saquon sometimes making business decisions out there?
The entire NFL is making a business decision. Im suprised as to how this site isnt sharing comments more often as to how bad NFL quality is. Look at what people are getting fined for around the league. Its awful.
Thankfullly ESG is becoming a bust and maybe we can go back to something more normal then what were seeing
But, no one is going to run well until the oline is out from under Bobby Johnson. No improvement in two years to any olinemen. No RB with less ability than Barkley is going to get anything done.
I hate to say it, but it is time to move on from Saquon. Let him find his team. Someone will pay for him.
1) We don't have a first round rookie QB starting, and
2) Barkley still wants a top line RB contract
Assuming either of those is false, at this point it's probably best to bite the bullet and sign him to a reasonable 2-3 year deal while we fix other areas of the team.
Though we should start working on our RB stable now and start collecting day 3 prospects that can step in once Barkley is gone.
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Keep in mind, there is no guarantee a comp pick will come back. That's a TBD.
You are right. If the plan is to Tag and Trade, an outcome where you are forced to keep SB creates even more tension between organization and player.
The best play is to wish Team Barkley well in free agency. And thank him for representing the NYG brand well.
I just have the worst feeling that the Football Gods aren't done making this organization a total clown show; and Schoen inexplicably runs Team Jones & Team Barkley back again in 2024.
SB's numbers have not been great by any measure running the ball but they are significantly better than when he was out which was some of the worst rushing you would see in the league.
What does this even mean. His numbers are better when he's plays than when he doesn't? That's deep.
For the record Barkley is 4th in the league in yards per game -- 7th in total rush yards and 6th in attempts having missed 3 games.
His 81.4 YPG is .6 yards per game off his career best last year. His 19.1 attempts per game is a career high.
Barkley on a game-to-game basis is having as good of a season rushing as any in his career.
And the Giants have the worst offense in the league.
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Keep in mind, there is no guarantee a comp pick will come back. That's a TBD.
You are right. If the plan is to Tag and Trade, an outcome where you are forced to keep SB creates even more tension between organization and player.
The best play is to wish Team Barkley well in free agency. And thank him for representing the NYG brand well.
I just have the worst feeling that the Football Gods aren't done making this organization a total clown show; and Schoen inexplicably runs Team Jones & Team Barkley back again in 2024.
There is no doubt your thesis on Schoen will be correct should he sentimentally trot DJ and Barkley back out again next year. I am hopeful that common sense will prevail....
With some Brightwell/Gray/other draft pick mixed in?
Singletary isn’t a starting NFL RB. He’s a complimentary piece.
And yet the Houston offense is far better than ours.
I'm not interested in replacing Barkley's production at RB. I'm interested in having a good offense.
It might have something to do with that Stroud guy. I hear he's pretty good. No DC is up at night trying to figure out how to stop Singletary. Who else is on that list? Julius Chestnut?
you don't get better by getting rid of good players
SB is easily our best weapon, and the only player on offense that has to be game planned against. and he is still productive.
I won't get into the leadership piece. you either understand that part of it, or you don't. or maybe you value that or you don't.
I see people are horrified at spending on a RB, but what are you hoarding the money for?
Our FA this year that may require decent money are mcKinney and maybe A'shawn.
I don't see JS dumping a bunch of cash on outside FA. There is generally not very good players available. All the good players are resigned or traded. I personally do not like the big splash FA. Poor way to build a team, and the ROI is rarely there.
I'd love an OL, but they really never get free. I mean -7 mil for Glowinski. 2 years ago.
Want a #1 WR? Well the #1s are a first round pick and 30 million per.
obviously my thoughts and yours have no bearing. I do think Dabs greatly values SB, and JS not trading him indicates he wants to bring him back.
If he turns down our offer, these are some WR we can get with the money we save...
21. DeAndre Hopkins, Tennessee Titans: $13 million (2 years, $26 million)
22. Corey Davis, New York Jets: $12.5 million (3 years, $37.5 million)
23 (tie). Michael Gallup, Dallas Cowboys: $11.5 million (5 years, $57.5 million)
23 (tie). Curtis Samuel, Washington Commanders: $11.5 million (3 years, $34.5 million)
25 (tie). Allen Lazard, New York Jets: $11 million (4 years, $44 million)
25 (tie). Jakobi Meyers, Las Vegas Raiders: $11 million (3 years, $33 million)
27. Tyler Boyd, Cincinnati Bengals: $10.75 million (4 years, $43 million)
28 (tie). Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Kansas City Chiefs: $10 million (3 years, $30 million)
28 (tie). Brandin Cooks, Dallas Cowboys: $10 million (2 years $20 million)
28 (tie). Michael Thomas, New Orleans Saints: $10 million (1 year, $10 million)
28 (tie). Tim Patrick, Denver Broncos: $10 million (3 years, $30 million)
Of course the Giants run the ball better when their top tier running back is available. That's pretty obvious.
But let's get back to this not "SB's numbers have not been great by any measure" business.
Game-to-game he's running the ball better than his rookie year. He's been one of the most productive backs in the league despite missing 3 games. What do you want out of the guy?
I would assuming we go QB in round one. I'd argue Young's development in CAR is hindered by the lack of weapons. We need to give Caleb or Drake or Jayden as many weapons as possible.
I would assuming we go QB in round one. I'd argue Young's development in CAR is hindered by the lack of weapons. We need to give Caleb or Drake or Jayden as many weapons as possible.
If you look at the Texans, their two best receivers are a rookie and a third year player both picked in round three.
I suspect if the Giants have a quarterback willing and able to throw the football, Hyatt and Robinson will flourish.
Not a comment per se about Barkley. But I think the Giants have better weapons than it shows right now.
I agree, Christian. Robinson and Hyatt both look like players to me--I don't know whether that's as third or fourth receivers or something more, though. Hyatt obviously has a high ceiling.
Sunday. He seems to be catching the ball when or if it is thrown to him. I agree with christian, they have better tools than we think. Robinson is that quick slant guy most good teams have.
Your remove the position and just listed total yards and TDs in weekly production he would easily be worth 15 to 18 million a year. That really is nothing for a weapon in the offense.
RE: At this point, this is the Barkley exit scenario.
1) We don't have a first round rookie QB starting, and
2) Barkley still wants a top line RB contract
Assuming either of those is false, at this point it's probably best to bite the bullet and sign him to a reasonable 2-3 year deal while we fix other areas of the team.
Though we should start working on our RB stable now and start collecting day 3 prospects that can step in once Barkley is gone.
especially with the Giants being where they are. Rookie QB next year, nowhere even close to winning yet. If they didn't pay him last year, it makes even less sense to pay him next year. He also has a TON of miles on his body and gets injured and misses multiple games every year at this point. That's only going to get worse as the years go on.
This is pretty much the "perfect" situation for Barkley to go somewhere else. It's over. This team is YEARS away from winning, and they've won absolutely nothing with Barkley anyway.
especially with the Giants being where they are. Rookie QB next year, nowhere even close to winning yet. If they didn't pay him last year, it makes even less sense to pay him next year. He also has a TON of miles on his body and gets injured and misses multiple games every year at this point. That's only going to get worse as the years go on.
This is pretty much the "perfect" situation for Barkley to go somewhere else. It's over. This team is YEARS away from winning, and they've won absolutely nothing with Barkley anyway.
Because the Giants will most likely have a Rookie QB is the reason why you bring Saquon back. You can’t have a Rookie QB and a Rookie RB starting, unless you want your QB to get killed due to a Rookie RB who can’t pass protect. You want your rookie QB to play with a veteran RB that can pass protect, and can be the bell cow to take the load of the QB. You aren’t getting a veteran RB with Barkley’s production at less than 6 million a year. It’s not going to happen. And you probably aren’t getting a good one on a 1 year deal.
I understand $13 million is a lot of money, but it’s a short term commitment on a really good player. A player who has been a model guy on and off the field for this franchise.
I do understand the argument about paying RBs. And I realize that the Giants may make a business decision and move on from Barkley. But these are my hangups.
1. He's a leader. If we draft a rookie QB, who's going to fill the leadership vacuum if we ditch Saquon? It's not going to be Jones if we draft his replacement.
2. As someone said earlier, you don't get better by dumping your best offensive player.
3. I really don't want to back to the time when we pretended that Paul Perkins was a good player.
This will be all about how the Giants will likely have a rookie QB in place and therefore that rookie will require Saquon's veteran presence to help ease his development in year one.
Saquon had a nice productive game the other day but hopefully everybody also caught him throwing weak-ass shoulders on Washington's pass rushers versus blocking properly and with effort.
Barkley has much, much more incentive to raise hell this year if he's tagged. Do you think the Giants are prepared for that?
If he’s tagged, he doesn’t have much of a choice. He can raise hell, sit out games, or even sit out the entire season, but he would only be hurting himself financially. I wouldn’t worry about it.
SB is a plus RB, but you could go the route of 2-3 cheaper, young backs and could likely reproduce SB's output for considerably less than $12M, at least between the 20s.
SB is a bit of a different case, especially with NYG fans. But, I'm no so sure how long Schoen will go along with sentiment.
Is it me, or do many of his drops come when he's facing or coming back to the ball?
When he's running under or after the ball he seems much more reliable.
I've noticed that too. When he is facing the ball he becomes a body catcher which leads to the drops. When he runs under it he has to rely on his hands.
RE: Now I see where the Save The RB Committee fans will go
This will be all about how the Giants will likely have a rookie QB in place and therefore that rookie will require Saquon's veteran presence to help ease his development in year one.
Saquon had a nice productive game the other day but hopefully everybody also caught him throwing weak-ass shoulders on Washington's pass rushers versus blocking properly and with effort.
I imagine Devito saw it up close.
I love the condescending tone in this reply, like if you’ve provided a better alternative with a well thought out response.
So your better idea is to tag Saquon...piss him off as he
wants another contract. Give him $13M for 3/4 of season since he always misses games anyway even if he isn't disgruntled. And since you also want to draft another RB high and give him a bunch of carries so he is ready to be RB1 at the beginning of 2025 then Saquon is even going to be on the field for less snaps. So Saquon gets $13M for approx. half of a 2024 season.
Great.
RE: So your better idea is to tag Saquon...piss him off as he
wants another contract. Give him $13M for 3/4 of season since he always misses games anyway even if he isn't disgruntled. And since you also want to draft another RB high and give him a bunch of carries so he is ready to be RB1 at the beginning of 2025 then Saquon is even going to be on the field for less snaps. So Saquon gets $13M for approx. half of a 2024 season.
Great.
A ton of assumptions made there. Not even worth a reply.
RE: RE: So your better idea is to tag Saquon...piss him off as he
wants another contract. Give him $13M for 3/4 of season since he always misses games anyway even if he isn't disgruntled. And since you also want to draft another RB high and give him a bunch of carries so he is ready to be RB1 at the beginning of 2025 then Saquon is even going to be on the field for less snaps. So Saquon gets $13M for approx. half of a 2024 season.
Great.
A ton of assumptions made there. Not even worth a reply.
I don't see anything out of bounds since I took it from your last post as to what to do.
I just added the theme that Saquon misses games each year which seems reasonable, especially with another year on his body.
Trade him for a 3rd round pick? No thanks
Pay him $15M a year on a long term deal? No thanks
No, I have noticed it as well.
Trade him for a 3rd round pick? No thanks
Pay him $15M a year on a long term deal? No thanks
You let him hit Free agency and walk.
Awesome guy - awesome player - love him -
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
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going to create an internal shit storm- but what are our other options?
Trade him for a 3rd round pick? No thanks
Pay him $15M a year on a long term deal? No thanks
You let him hit Free agency and walk.
Even worse than not trading him for a 3rd round pick is when he signs with the Eagles, and Giants get a 4th round compensatory pick.
Hope that he signs a big deal somewhere and the Giants get a draft pick.
To a long term deal - (3 to 4 year deal with an out after 2)
Why not? He’s still a good player, and would be helpful to a rookie QB. A rookie RB could not be counted on to pass protect for a rookie QB, and you’d still pay 5-6 million a season for a veteran RB.
Hopefully he improves as a GM too.
Hopefully he improves as a GM too.
This decision would have nothing to do with needing to sign Jones and fitting both players in. The Giants estimated to have 47 mill in cap space next season. They could fit him in.
Just letting him walk out the door or signing him to an extended contract with his injury history makes no sense to this franchise at this time. Schoen needs to get this precisely right after completely screwing it up last year.
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Why not? He’s still a good player, and would be helpful to a rookie QB. A rookie RB could not be counted on to pass protect for a rookie QB, and you’d still pay 5-6 million a season for a veteran RB.
Here's a list of FA RBs. Pick any two of the cheapest, draft a guy on Day 3, and let them compete with Gray and Brightwell in camp. Do not spend real money in this area.
Barkley has been here six years. For six years this offense has stunk. If we can stink with him, we can stink without him.
FA RBs - ( New Window )
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In comment 16297207 Go Terps said:
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Why not? He’s still a good player, and would be helpful to a rookie QB. A rookie RB could not be counted on to pass protect for a rookie QB, and you’d still pay 5-6 million a season for a veteran RB.
Here's a list of FA RBs. Pick any two of the cheapest, draft a guy on Day 3, and let them compete with Gray and Brightwell in camp. Do not spend real money in this area.
Barkley has been here six years. For six years this offense has stunk. If we can stink with him, we can stink without him.
The Giants are going to have a rookie QB next season, you can’t just place anyone back there. You need a competent pass blocker to protect your young QB. Even a washed up RB like Zeke or Cook is costing you 5-7 million a year.
Hope that he signs a big deal somewhere and the Giants get a draft pick.
+1
Why?
Plenty of teams take RBs late in the draft and plenty of teams don’t pay too $$$ for their RBs.
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puts us in the position of either (1) having to use a high draft pick on a RB or (2) spending alit of $ anyway to replace him and getting Breida/Grey/Brightwell level production. No thanks to either.
Why?
Plenty of teams take RBs late in the draft and plenty of teams don’t pay too $$$ for their RBs.
Who’s your primary RB if you let him go? You can’t depend on a late round rookie.
With some Brightwell/Gray/other draft pick mixed in?
Who on this list would be under 5 million and provides similar production.
Cook
Harris
Murray
Hines
Cook
Harris
Murray
Hines
Bills spent a 3rd round pick on Cook 2 years ago
Swift
Penny
Gainwell
Scott
With some Brightwell/Gray/other draft pick mixed in?
Singletary isn’t a starting NFL RB. He’s a complimentary piece.
Mostert
Achane
Wilson
Ahmed
No one player is going to replace SB.
But collectively they can - and for half the price.
And I think you can get something for him -
Maybe even a 2 and 5 like LW got them.
Unfortunately, they missed the first chance to do it - they can afford to miss their second chance this summer.
Awesome guy - awesome player - love him -
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
The NYG should be realistic about the situation and ask for a 2 and a 5.
Anything better than what they would get via a comp pick is good work by their front office.
Bottom line - with the holes this team has they can’t allocate 12 mil + to the RB position moving forward…
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Slam dunk.
Awesome guy - awesome player - love him -
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Exactly this.
If you're Team Barkley, you certainly aren't taking the tender with a smile. It's the last realistic chance he has to sign a multi-year agreement.
If you're Schoen, are you giving Barkley 26M+ in guarantees?
Normally if a team gives twice the franchise tender, what they want back is more years of team control. But does Schoen really want four years of Barkley?
Bingo
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In comment 16297183 Dnew15 said:
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Slam dunk.
Awesome guy - awesome player - love him -
Giving him a long term deal right now with this franchise is absolutely asinine…
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Well played sir.
No doubt that is the danger to my suggested move.
It just feels like a waste to get nothing for him.
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At 2.5 mil?
With some Brightwell/Gray/other draft pick mixed in?
Singletary isn’t a starting NFL RB. He’s a complimentary piece.
And yet the Houston offense is far better than ours.
I'm not interested in replacing Barkley's production at RB. I'm interested in having a good offense.
But we should not expect to compete next year since we almost certainly will be on a rookie QB. Time to move on.
The Bills have actually been average to not good enough for years running the ball with the backs. Romo was another analyst who mentioned this yesterday and one of the reason I was not so high on this regime coming to the NYG.
I wish the Giants were better prepared to move on from SB with both a better OL and backs behind him. Then the decision to move on is easy imv.
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In comment 16297283 Dnew15 said:
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At 2.5 mil?
With some Brightwell/Gray/other draft pick mixed in?
Singletary isn’t a starting NFL RB. He’s a complimentary piece.
And yet the Houston offense is far better than ours.
I'm not interested in replacing Barkley's production at RB. I'm interested in having a good offense.
The Texans hit on Stroud. He is making that offense go. You aren’t saying anything to prove me otherwise.
And not surprisingly the Giants are averaging the fewest yards per game in the NFL at 262 per game.
In a moment of You couldn't write it any better, what the Giants need is for less of their productivity to come from their running backs rushing the ball.
Who the running back is, is a distant factor. The Giants need to generate more yards on the air.
Cordarelle Patterson... man, I wish the Giants figured out a way to get that guy ages ago.
I don't know, but whatever they do, I hope it works out.
SB's numbers have not been great by any measure running the ball but they are significantly better than when he was out which was some of the worst rushing you would see in the league. In any year.
They had a great chance to beat both the Jets and Bills and on offense SB was the clear reason why.
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Worrying too much about Saquon and not just tagging Jones this past year.
Hopefully he improves as a GM too.
This decision would have nothing to do with needing to sign Jones and fitting both players in. The Giants estimated to have 47 mill in cap space next season. They could fit him in.
No kidding. That's not what I said is the issue.
If you're Team Barkley, you certainly aren't taking the tender with a smile. It's the last realistic chance he has to sign a multi-year agreement.
If you're Schoen, are you giving Barkley 26M+ in guarantees?
Normally if a team gives twice the franchise tender, what they want back is more years of team control. But does Schoen really want four years of Barkley?
Well put as to the issue in each camp.
It will be another test for our GM. Let see if he is growing into the job and lets Saquon head into free agency.
The entire NFL is making a business decision. Im suprised as to how this site isnt sharing comments more often as to how bad NFL quality is. Look at what people are getting fined for around the league. Its awful.
Thankfullly ESG is becoming a bust and maybe we can go back to something more normal then what were seeing
But, no one is going to run well until the oline is out from under Bobby Johnson. No improvement in two years to any olinemen. No RB with less ability than Barkley is going to get anything done.
I hate to say it, but it is time to move on from Saquon. Let him find his team. Someone will pay for him.
2) Barkley still wants a top line RB contract
Assuming either of those is false, at this point it's probably best to bite the bullet and sign him to a reasonable 2-3 year deal while we fix other areas of the team.
Though we should start working on our RB stable now and start collecting day 3 prospects that can step in once Barkley is gone.
I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Keep in mind, there is no guarantee a comp pick will come back. That's a TBD.
You are right. If the plan is to Tag and Trade, an outcome where you are forced to keep SB creates even more tension between organization and player.
The best play is to wish Team Barkley well in free agency. And thank him for representing the NYG brand well.
I just have the worst feeling that the Football Gods aren't done making this organization a total clown show; and Schoen inexplicably runs Team Jones & Team Barkley back again in 2024.
SB's numbers have not been great by any measure running the ball but they are significantly better than when he was out which was some of the worst rushing you would see in the league.
What does this even mean. His numbers are better when he's plays than when he doesn't? That's deep.
For the record Barkley is 4th in the league in yards per game -- 7th in total rush yards and 6th in attempts having missed 3 games.
His 81.4 YPG is .6 yards per game off his career best last year. His 19.1 attempts per game is a career high.
Barkley on a game-to-game basis is having as good of a season rushing as any in his career.
And the Giants have the worst offense in the league.
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I think this should be SB's last six games with the franchise. And find a new stable of backs who can do fill various roles.
However, if you FT SB, why do you think there is going to be a market to execute a trade? SB has more wear on this tread, he's about to turn 27, and his injury history speaks for itself.
Take the Colts for example. They didn't sniff their asking price for the younger, talented Jonathan Taylor. Why would the market view Barkley differently?
Clearly Schoen has to have a trade partner offering terms that would be satisfactory to Barkley in advance of executing the tag and him signing the tender. Otherwise, you have to let him walk for the compensatory pick. You cannot "tag him on spec" and risk being stuck with him again.
Keep in mind, there is no guarantee a comp pick will come back. That's a TBD.
You are right. If the plan is to Tag and Trade, an outcome where you are forced to keep SB creates even more tension between organization and player.
The best play is to wish Team Barkley well in free agency. And thank him for representing the NYG brand well.
I just have the worst feeling that the Football Gods aren't done making this organization a total clown show; and Schoen inexplicably runs Team Jones & Team Barkley back again in 2024.
There is no doubt your thesis on Schoen will be correct should he sentimentally trot DJ and Barkley back out again next year. I am hopeful that common sense will prevail....
W/O SB-total RB production. Good luck finding a worst three worst game stretch.
SF 9c/22y
Miami 22c/46y
Seattle 18c/36y
SB production
Jets 36c/138y
Bills 24c/93y
Yesterday he totaled about 120 total yards.
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In comment 16297283 Dnew15 said:
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At 2.5 mil?
With some Brightwell/Gray/other draft pick mixed in?
Singletary isn’t a starting NFL RB. He’s a complimentary piece.
And yet the Houston offense is far better than ours.
I'm not interested in replacing Barkley's production at RB. I'm interested in having a good offense.
I won't get into the leadership piece. you either understand that part of it, or you don't. or maybe you value that or you don't.
I see people are horrified at spending on a RB, but what are you hoarding the money for?
Our FA this year that may require decent money are mcKinney and maybe A'shawn.
I don't see JS dumping a bunch of cash on outside FA. There is generally not very good players available. All the good players are resigned or traded. I personally do not like the big splash FA. Poor way to build a team, and the ROI is rarely there.
I'd love an OL, but they really never get free. I mean -7 mil for Glowinski. 2 years ago.
Want a #1 WR? Well the #1s are a first round pick and 30 million per.
obviously my thoughts and yours have no bearing. I do think Dabs greatly values SB, and JS not trading him indicates he wants to bring him back.
If he turns down our offer, these are some WR we can get with the money we save...
21. DeAndre Hopkins, Tennessee Titans: $13 million (2 years, $26 million)
22. Corey Davis, New York Jets: $12.5 million (3 years, $37.5 million)
23 (tie). Michael Gallup, Dallas Cowboys: $11.5 million (5 years, $57.5 million)
23 (tie). Curtis Samuel, Washington Commanders: $11.5 million (3 years, $34.5 million)
25 (tie). Allen Lazard, New York Jets: $11 million (4 years, $44 million)
25 (tie). Jakobi Meyers, Las Vegas Raiders: $11 million (3 years, $33 million)
27. Tyler Boyd, Cincinnati Bengals: $10.75 million (4 years, $43 million)
28 (tie). Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Kansas City Chiefs: $10 million (3 years, $30 million)
28 (tie). Brandin Cooks, Dallas Cowboys: $10 million (2 years $20 million)
28 (tie). Michael Thomas, New Orleans Saints: $10 million (1 year, $10 million)
28 (tie). Tim Patrick, Denver Broncos: $10 million (3 years, $30 million)
But let's get back to this not "SB's numbers have not been great by any measure" business.
Game-to-game he's running the ball better than his rookie year. He's been one of the most productive backs in the league despite missing 3 games. What do you want out of the guy?
If you look at the Texans, their two best receivers are a rookie and a third year player both picked in round three.
I suspect if the Giants have a quarterback willing and able to throw the football, Hyatt and Robinson will flourish.
Not a comment per se about Barkley. But I think the Giants have better weapons than it shows right now.
Is it me, or do many of his drops come when he's facing or coming back to the ball?
When he's running under or after the ball he seems much more reliable.
2) Barkley still wants a top line RB contract
Assuming either of those is false, at this point it's probably best to bite the bullet and sign him to a reasonable 2-3 year deal while we fix other areas of the team.
Though we should start working on our RB stable now and start collecting day 3 prospects that can step in once Barkley is gone.
+1
This is pretty much the "perfect" situation for Barkley to go somewhere else. It's over. This team is YEARS away from winning, and they've won absolutely nothing with Barkley anyway.
This is pretty much the "perfect" situation for Barkley to go somewhere else. It's over. This team is YEARS away from winning, and they've won absolutely nothing with Barkley anyway.
Because the Giants will most likely have a Rookie QB is the reason why you bring Saquon back. You can’t have a Rookie QB and a Rookie RB starting, unless you want your QB to get killed due to a Rookie RB who can’t pass protect. You want your rookie QB to play with a veteran RB that can pass protect, and can be the bell cow to take the load of the QB. You aren’t getting a veteran RB with Barkley’s production at less than 6 million a year. It’s not going to happen. And you probably aren’t getting a good one on a 1 year deal.
I understand $13 million is a lot of money, but it’s a short term commitment on a really good player. A player who has been a model guy on and off the field for this franchise.
1. He's a leader. If we draft a rookie QB, who's going to fill the leadership vacuum if we ditch Saquon? It's not going to be Jones if we draft his replacement.
2. As someone said earlier, you don't get better by dumping your best offensive player.
3. I really don't want to back to the time when we pretended that Paul Perkins was a good player.
Taking a QB first round
Taking a RB with starting potential with the Seattle 2nd round pick or even early 3rd Giants round pick.
That way you bring in a guy that will take a load of Barkley next season, and hopefully be ready to start in 2025.
This will be all about how the Giants will likely have a rookie QB in place and therefore that rookie will require Saquon's veteran presence to help ease his development in year one.
Saquon had a nice productive game the other day but hopefully everybody also caught him throwing weak-ass shoulders on Washington's pass rushers versus blocking properly and with effort.
I imagine Devito saw it up close.
Barkley has much, much more incentive to raise hell this year if he's tagged. Do you think the Giants are prepared for that?
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Is franchise tagging Barkley.
Barkley has much, much more incentive to raise hell this year if he's tagged. Do you think the Giants are prepared for that?
If he’s tagged, he doesn’t have much of a choice. He can raise hell, sit out games, or even sit out the entire season, but he would only be hurting himself financially. I wouldn’t worry about it.
SB is a bit of a different case, especially with NYG fans. But, I'm no so sure how long Schoen will go along with sentiment.
Is it me, or do many of his drops come when he's facing or coming back to the ball?
When he's running under or after the ball he seems much more reliable.
I've noticed that too. When he is facing the ball he becomes a body catcher which leads to the drops. When he runs under it he has to rely on his hands.
This will be all about how the Giants will likely have a rookie QB in place and therefore that rookie will require Saquon's veteran presence to help ease his development in year one.
Saquon had a nice productive game the other day but hopefully everybody also caught him throwing weak-ass shoulders on Washington's pass rushers versus blocking properly and with effort.
I imagine Devito saw it up close.
I love the condescending tone in this reply, like if you’ve provided a better alternative with a well thought out response.
Great.
Great.
A ton of assumptions made there. Not even worth a reply.
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wants another contract. Give him $13M for 3/4 of season since he always misses games anyway even if he isn't disgruntled. And since you also want to draft another RB high and give him a bunch of carries so he is ready to be RB1 at the beginning of 2025 then Saquon is even going to be on the field for less snaps. So Saquon gets $13M for approx. half of a 2024 season.
Great.
A ton of assumptions made there. Not even worth a reply.
I don't see anything out of bounds since I took it from your last post as to what to do.
I just added the theme that Saquon misses games each year which seems reasonable, especially with another year on his body.
I expect him to be back in 2024 and ready to roll again.
This is how I see it. I think Schoen/Daboll want him but would be fine franchising him again. Schoen seems to be very in tune with positional value.