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Is Spags the best Defensive Coordinator in football?

Mark in ATL : 11/20/2023 6:11 pm
I’m not sure he gets the credit he deserves for the Chiefs success. Other candidates Quinn in Dallas or Anuromo in Cincinnati?
2 of the 3 are former Giant coaches  
KeoweeFan : 11/20/2023 6:25 pm : link
and Quinn is from Morristown NJ.
Spags has had a funny career.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/20/2023 6:33 pm : link
He failed as a HC, he's had some disastrous seasons, but pair him with a good HC (like Coughlin and Reid) and he flourishes.
Spags  
Johnny5 : 11/20/2023 6:39 pm : link
Was always under-rated here (I thought anyway). Give him some horses and a good HC and he is the goods. That said, I'd have to go with Quinn at this point as the best DC in the league.
.  
Chris in Philly : 11/20/2023 6:39 pm : link
I hope we can say so tonight at midnight.
RE: Spags  
j_rud : 11/20/2023 7:09 pm : link
In comment 16297474 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Was always under-rated here (I thought anyway). Give him some horses and a good HC and he is the goods. That said, I'd have to go with Quinn at this point as the best DC in the league.


I'd have to disagree there, Spags was revered here. I guess a little shine came off by the end of his second tour but Spags was most definitely well thought of.
..,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/20/2023 7:17 pm : link
Spags walked on water his first go around here. The second time...eh, not as good. The '15 defense...Good Lord. That was one atrocious defense. I think we lost a game to the Saints where the offense put up 48 points or something.

The '16 defense was better because Reese went on a spending spree that-long term-did more harm than good.

I like Spags & wish him well in KC. It is wild that the defense-right now-is the strength of that team.
He is certainly one of the best  
GiantTuff1 : 11/20/2023 7:19 pm : link
People who were anti Spags as a D Coordinator here at any point are on the list of low football IQ.

When he has pieces he is very, very good. And I like and respect that Jim Johnson brand of defense.
This is a very good question...  
bw in dc : 11/20/2023 7:28 pm : link
I'm not sure from week to week if Spags is the best - especially with the Chiefs who have the ultimate problem solver in the Savant - but I would take him in a big game for all the marbles right now against anyone.

He's a great big game planner.
RE: ..,  
Ron from Ninerland : 11/20/2023 7:30 pm : link
In comment 16297499 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Spags walked on water his first go around here. The second time...eh, not as good. The '15 defense...Good Lord. That was one atrocious defense. I think we lost a game to the Saints where the offense put up 48 points or something.

The '16 defense was better because Reese went on a spending spree that-long term-did more harm than good.

I like Spags & wish him well in KC. It is wild that the defense-right now-is the strength of that team.
Short memory here. His first go round he got us a championship and possibly could have gotten us another if Plax hadn't shot himself. His second goround he got us to the playoffs despite having an offense possibly more disfunctional than this one.
Ron.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/20/2023 7:35 pm : link
What? You're familiar with the term 'walk on water' right? I all but said his first go around here was a grand slam. His second time here was a mixed bag...the defense was awful in '15, but was the catalyst for us making the playoffs in '16.
I hate any rankings.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/20/2023 8:00 pm : link
What I do know is he is great. I always felt that way and anyone can go search threads from back then. I would always bring up why his defenses struggled here and the differences between him and his players. Under Spags, players were ALWAYS in position to make plays. They just didn't. Then you look at other DCs we had and there were always blown assignments, guys running free, miscommunication, etc. I'm a Spags fan and his success in KC has been going on for years. There was one year KC's offense struggled for like half the year and their D was why they were winning. Theor D is always overshadowed.
I liked Spags!  
newjerseygiants : 11/20/2023 8:01 pm : link
D was aggressive...
Spags D  
Mike in NY : 11/20/2023 8:05 pm : link
If people stay healthy he can be really good. The problem is when he was hurt by injuries there was a lot of miscommunication
I caught flack for  
AROCK1000 : 11/20/2023 8:12 pm : link
saying Wink was a top 5 DC in the NFL
Spags is a top 5 DC-IMHO
RE: 2 of the 3 are former Giant coaches  
GruningsOnTheHill : 11/20/2023 8:27 pm : link
In comment 16297461 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
and Quinn is from Morristown NJ.

There used to be a great Italian restaurant there: Portofino. Been a long time since that part of the country has seen my shadow, though.
Grunnings on the hill  
chiro56 : 11/20/2023 9:28 pm : link
Great handle. I spent a lot of time with my girlfriend in that place my senior year in high school . 1970. Good times.
If we're being honest, there's a lot of rose colored glasses  
eclipz928 : 11/20/2023 10:29 pm : link
when it comes to Spags. As a defensive coordinator he's coached not just one but two historically bad defenses - 2012 with Saints and 2015 with the Giants. Both teams allowed over 6 yards per play.

More recently with the Chiefs, he coached middle of the pack defenses his first two years before coaching a bottom 5 defense in 2021. Last year was the first time the Chiefs became a top 10 defense (and they're lined up to finish there again this year). But Spags has been anything but consistent as a DC during his career, and most other coaches don't get as many chances as he has had to continue as a DC in the NFL.
He has three rings  
allstarjim : 11/21/2023 1:43 am : link
As a DC.

He's the only coordinator in history to have won 3 Super Bowls total with two different teams.

People crap on him for that Saints defense when the team mailed in the season after Payton was suspended for the year in the wake of Bountygate.
RE: Spags D  
robbieballs2003 : 11/21/2023 6:59 am : link
In comment 16297548 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
If people stay healthy he can be really good. The problem is when he was hurt by injuries there was a lot of miscommunication


This is not true at all.
RE: RE: Spags D  
robbieballs2003 : 11/21/2023 7:11 am : link
In comment 16297804 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 16297548 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


If people stay healthy he can be really good. The problem is when he was hurt by injuries there was a lot of miscommunication



This is not true at all.


Again, I have made this known through all those historically bad defenses that the players were always in positions to make plays, they just didn't. This wasn't the same as Fewell, Sheridan, Lewis, and Bettcher. They all had miscommunication. Graham didn't have miscommunication but he played extremely soft and scared..
RE: RE: Spags  
Johnny5 : 11/21/2023 11:24 am : link
In comment 16297497 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 16297474 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Was always under-rated here (I thought anyway). Give him some horses and a good HC and he is the goods. That said, I'd have to go with Quinn at this point as the best DC in the league.



I'd have to disagree there, Spags was revered here. I guess a little shine came off by the end of his second tour but Spags was most definitely well thought of.

I agree he was revered initially, I was referring more to the 2nd stint. I seem to remember he took a lot of shit here for that 2015 season. I still to this day lament the fact that Coughlin got axed before the defensive spending spree prior to the 2016 season. That Spree caused a lot of damage, but I will always remain convinced that if we rolled that season with TC at the helm instead of McAdoo it would have been a hell of a way to usher out the Eli Manning Era.
Spagnuolo is good  
NINEster : 11/21/2023 12:35 pm : link
and has benefitted from a lot of continuity (he's never leaving KC). I'll give him credit for performing well without a ton of star power, but let's not forget the star power he has on the other side of the ball. And SB 42, he had great pass rushers in an era where they could win a game.

Anarumo might be the most innovative currently, after what Vic Fangio has done in years past. How he shut down the Chiefs to send the Bengals to the Super Bowl was very impressive.

Quinn is very good as I thought his work in the playoffs last year was brilliant, but this year not as much when the turnover/scoring battle doesn't go the Cowboys way.

Ravens' coordinators I can't quite fully say. I feel they maintain a philosophy set by Harbaugh years ago and seem to bring in guys who can tweak it and make it work.

Flores is similar to the Ravens' guys with their heavy blitz mentality and somehow making it work.

The Shanahan baldies in Saleh & Ryans had a lot to do with the Niner defenses being a force, and this seasons defense a bit less so despite even more talent on that side of the ball. Jets' defense when you factor in such a shitty DVOA on the offensive side of the ball could be the best. Ryans will get a chance to build the Texans defense up.

Fangio is very good once he has the guys and some continuity. His stuff is more complicated but once it's set I feel he can do more with less. I remember seeing him slow down Drew Brees undermanned and it was impressive.

Probably the most underrated on this list would have to be Jim Schwartz. Not only are the Browns defense humming (like every other defense he coordinated), but the guy is like 9-1 against Kyle Shanahan all time, and kept every single one of his offenses under 20 points. I did all the breakdowns going back to 2008 and maybe 60% of those games were with subpar Texan/Browns teams, but Schwartz managed to keep the 2016 Super Bowl Falcons limited to 15 points, was on the Titans staff when they beat the Niners two years ago, and just beat the Niners again this year with the Browns.

He likely has Kyle's # as much as BB did with the Niner WCO back in the day. Good thing he's on the Browns and left the Eagles after 2020...
Anuromo's secondary  
bc4life : 11/22/2023 8:19 am : link
seems to give even the best teams fits.

Quinn - has had good players in Seattle and Dallas. Does Anuromo have the same level of talent?
Sy made a comment last week that Wink isn't a top 5 coordinator  
aimrocky : 11/22/2023 8:46 am : link
and it got me wondering, who Sy thinks are the top coordinators are on each side of the ball. Maybe he'll see this and chime in.
Big fan of Quinn  
Rick in Dallas : 11/22/2023 9:25 am : link
Loses Vander Esch and Diggs and still plays a fast physical defense.
They are a turnover machine with that pass rush
Have to look at schedules too  
bc4life : 11/22/2023 11:57 am : link
Quinn's only real challenges were Eagles and 49ers.

Giants 2x, Jets, lost to Cards, Carolina, Patriots, Rams, Commanders
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