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Tom Brady opines on the NFL Product

KingBlue : 11/22/2023 7:30 am
Brady reflects on the current state of the NFL and what it has become... Mediocre. He is right, of course, and just confirms what we all have been witnessing. I hope Brady brings this honesty to the booth in 2024.

During a recent appearance on “The Stephen A. Smith Show,” Tom Brady shredded the current state of the game and how it’s lacking “the excellence that I saw in the past.”

“I think there’s a lot of mediocrity in today’s NFL,” Brady said. “I don’t see the excellence that I saw in the past.”

When pressed to elaborate by Smith, 56, the former Patriots and Buccaneers quarterback, 46, pointed to coaching and player development.

“I think the coaching isn’t as good as it was,” Brady said. “I don’t think the development of young players is as good as it was. I don’t think the schemes are as good as they were. The rules have allowed a lot of bad habits to get into the actual performance of the game. So, I just think the product, in my opinion, is less than what it’s been.”

“I look at a lot of players like Ray Lewis and Rodney Harrison and Ronnie Lott, and guys that impacted the game in a certain way, and every hit they would have made would have been a penalty,” Brady said.


Tom Brady - ( New Window )
He's correct for the most part.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/22/2023 7:38 am : link
.
_____________  
I am Ninja : 11/22/2023 7:43 am : link
You wonder if the economic performance of the league will ever begin to decline. Unless and until, it doesn't matter and no one who has any power to change anything will care.
Focus on the product  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 11/22/2023 7:46 am : link
and the profit follows. Focus on the profit and the product suffers. I totally agree with him.

The Madden series was the canary in the coal mine. 9am games on Yahoo is another example of a crazy reach that no one wants. Why is the officiating so bad year after year?

They don't care bc right now we're all spending money. It'll continue to get worse and cost them in the long run.
I don't believe you can put the "Jeannie" back in the bottle  
KingBlue : 11/22/2023 7:51 am : link
The NFL is nothing like it was before fantasy football and the sponsorship of gambling. The rule changes designed to allow for more scoring have totally deteriorated the product.

Brady is right on the product, the coaching and player development.
.  
Swizzle : 11/22/2023 7:57 am : link
The excellence (and sex appeal) that is missing from today's game is Tom Brady himself.
 
christian : 11/22/2023 7:58 am : link
I completely agree the nature of the college programs has changed, and is not a minor league for the NFL as it once was.
my favorite half of a (non-Giant) Superbowl was the first half of the  
markky : 11/22/2023 9:07 am : link
Pats vs. Panthers, a defensive battle. not that it was spectacular, just that I like defense. we'll never see that again.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/22/2023 9:09 am : link
He’s right.
Something that will always rally the fans  
Sean : 11/22/2023 9:10 am : link
Ex sports star ripping on current product of the league they play in while talking about how better it was before. See it all the time with the NBA.
I agree that they should not have  
Giantimistic : 11/22/2023 9:20 am : link
Put the Tom Brady Rule in.
Like him or not  
Toth029 : 11/22/2023 9:21 am : link
He is right the game has changed and quite frankly not for the better in terms of entertainment value. Safety? Sure but they have gone overboard.
I hate to say this sounds like get off my lawn stuff  
cosmicj : 11/22/2023 9:24 am : link
“ “I look at a lot of players like Ray Lewis and Rodney Harrison and Ronnie Lott, and guys that impacted the game in a certain way, and every hit they would have made would have been a penalty,” Brady said.”

Those hits led to physical problems that are unacceptable today, both because of societal standards and the microscope of online coverage of sports. I remember reading an account of one of Terrell Davis’ games where he was fighting off hits to the head, this was in the late 90s, and it’s unthinkable that the coaches involved would have survived with their careers in the present environment. Things have changed and the game needs to evolve.

I think the problem is that the league isn’t serious enough about confronting long term physical damage to its players.

I also don’t believe Brady is correct about coaching. If anything, I bet the disappearance of long term coaching advantages have been decreased by league wide leveling up in the quality of coaching. The situation is similar to why batters no longer hit .400 in the MLB. Are the batters worse? Absolutely not, they are facing more consistent pitching.
RE: I don't believe you can put the  
SomeFan : 11/22/2023 9:27 am : link
In comment 16298736 KingBlue said:
Quote:
The NFL is nothing like it was before fantasy football and the sponsorship of gambling. The rule changes designed to allow for more scoring have totally deteriorated the product.

Brady is right on the product, the coaching and player development.
Agree, FF and gambling has an influence
All of the changes dictated by the CBA  
JonC : 11/22/2023 9:28 am : link
have weakened the fundamentals of football in the NFL. Blocking, tackling, the hitting, so much has been legislated to reduce head shots, wear and tear, and defense. Now it often looks like playground, fastbreak football. It's been underway since Polian b*tched to the NFL and they started to move to this model, which also caters to non-fans, fantasy and gambling. It's all about the Benjamins, how to make more, take some load off the athletes, including the CTE factor.
cosmicj nails it  
Sean : 11/22/2023 9:28 am : link
.
Brady is right  
Sammo85 : 11/22/2023 9:30 am : link
The NFL product is bad.
cosmic  
JonC : 11/22/2023 9:33 am : link
Agree the game needed to evolve somehow, but the evolution to this point is a downgrade to quality of play. I've been complaining about it for 10+ years. I suppose the answer will be they can't put the genie back in the bottle, and the past is in the past. But, it's plain to see.
 
christian : 11/22/2023 9:43 am : link
The NFL has two competing objectives that can't coexist. They want a faster more exciting product, but want less violence and fewer injuries.

The best way to decrease injuries is slowing the game at the point of contact, but speeding up the game when moving the ball downfield.

Rules I'd like to see implemented:

1) Incidental contact to the quarterback's head and neck not be a foul

2) Defense required to have 3 set lineman on all plays, and movement after being set a penalty like it is for the offense

3) Chucking completely legal before five yards and no illegal contact called before 10 yards

4) Conversely picking legal within 5 yards for the offense

5) Pass interference be a 15 yard or spot foul, whatever is less
It’s disturbing  
mittenedman : 11/22/2023 9:48 am : link
The point about coaching too is well taken. Everyone wants a young HC now and these dorks largely have no idea WTF they’re doing, and how to get it done. IE Gilbride not having it anymore but McAdoo’s better. Simple spread concepts, everyone’s offense looks the same now. Most running plays are shotgun inside handoff. How often can you watch that play? Old school offenses had seemingly unlimited numbers of running plays, and play action built off it. it was beautiful to watch.

Like Tom mentioned, you see it with the lack of player development too. If anything it seems like a lot of guys actually regress after their rookie years.

You’ve got offenses like NY that look like they all met each other for the first time in the lobby before the game.
RE: I agree that they should not have  
SirLoinOfBeef : 11/22/2023 9:55 am : link
In comment 16298790 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
Put the Tom Brady Rule in.


Funny he doesn't mention that?...

He's basically the sole reason you can't even breathe on the QB today.
“I think the coaching isn’t as good as it was”  
widmerseyebrow : 11/22/2023 9:58 am : link
"I don't think the development of young players is as good as it was."

How can players say this with a straight face when they've negotiated for fewer and fewer training camp practices and practices with pads?
NFL product is declining for several reasons  
Rjanyg : 11/22/2023 10:00 am : link
1. No Patience. NFL rookies are being asked to be productive extremely quick. Development is secondary. High draft picks are considered busts if they don't start right out of the gate. Teams cutting QB's after 1 season and starting over.

2. The college game is dictating the style of offense the NFL is implementing. Again, with rookies expected to product right away we have the RPO and the Read Option as the go to offense for young players. The pro style offense is deteriorating.

3. Blocking and tackling are just plain bad. NFLPA is only making this worse with restricting contact during the week.

4. Roster rules. Why does the 3rd QB need to be an emergency QB? Why can't the head coach rotate his QB's in an out as he pleases? Why only dress 48 for a game? If they are on the team they should be able to enter the game. You wonder why the injuries are at an all time high? It has everything to with guys playing with injuries and continuing to play.
Translation:  
jinkies : 11/22/2023 10:01 am : link
Things were better when I was playing.
Love to know the overall decline in practice time  
CT Charlie : 11/22/2023 10:04 am : link
in the past 15 years. Team practices in spring & summer, preseason games, in-season practice time – the cumulative decrease in all these opportunities in a player's 5-10 year career – is significant.

Basic blocking, tackling, and route running deteriorate, and coaches may be prevented from installing as sophisticated schemes as they used to because they don't have time to perfect them.

Another possibility is that Brady was accustomed to seeing the Patriots' attention to detail, and the rest of the league doesn't measure up. The Patriots' borderline-illegal-but-they-never-get-called-for-it goal line pick & rub route packages are still far superior to anything the Giants have ever attempted. First-and-goal should provide a near-automatic TD, and I shudder to think what our % success rate has been, even with excellent running QBs in DJ and TT.
cosmic.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/22/2023 10:10 am : link
I think David had a concussion in that Broncos Packers Super Bowl and the coaching staff knew about it & kept him in. That wouldn’t happen in 2023.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/22/2023 10:10 am : link
Davis, not David.
Ultimately, it comes down to QB play  
Sean : 11/22/2023 10:12 am : link
The Chiefs-Eagles MNF game had the highest MNF rating in 25 years. This has been an abysmal QB year. The flags need to be controlled too. It's way too often the flags become the story. When in doubt, don't throw the flag.
 
christian : 11/22/2023 10:14 am : link
The decline in scoring and big plays is the only thing that will get the league's attention.

The worst outcome for the game is teams reverting to more a conservative, run-focused, lower scoring approach.

This might be sound appealing to the group who longs for the past. But the flip side of that smash mouth doesn't exist. So we'll be left with a boring version of the former game.
To all  
PaulN : 11/22/2023 10:20 am : link
Watch the interview before saying something as stupid as Tom Brady ripping the current state of the NFL. But someone needs to say that because they are so lazy and misinformed that they are going to slant this to satisfy themselves and make it about them. Go suck your pacifier. He didn't rip anything ir anyone, the interview is quite good. The product on the field is nefiocre, and there are ways ymto make it better again. I will tell all of you, the product, the game itself was at its peak in the 80's and 90's. Tge early 2000's also. It is deteriorating. The rules are sickening for defensive players. The lack of practices and shortening of the preseason to prepare players has hurt the sport immensely. It used to be 2 a days and 6 ore season games together a team ready. Tge teams are not ready anymore. I understand player safety, but you can be safer and keep the product at its best. There is no doubt a way. But nobody gives a shit about that anymore.
He is 100% correct  
Sec 103 : 11/22/2023 10:24 am : link
The product like most products now is mediocre yet we pay premiums prices for them.
The Giants are a microcosm  
HBart : 11/22/2023 11:13 am : link
Football has always been won and lost in the trenches. Offensive tackles can go their live's pre-draft without lining up with a hand in the dirt. Then the 2020 CBA cuts in half or less the time available to turn prospects into NFL tackles (doubling their time to prove or bust out).

As an extreme example, the 49ers haven't lost a game this or last season when Trent Willams plays. They're under .500 when he doesn't.

Players need to develop and then become cohesive; walls take time and care to build but are easily and quickly knocked down. The D will always be advantaged with green OLs.

The NFL though is moving in the wrong direction - emphasizing expansion while now seeing the damage of the last CBA in terms of less scoring more injuries, especially at QB. They want more teams and more stars; I don't think anyone foresaw how badly the last CBA lessened and diluted a product which was already moving that way with player development and increasingly pro-offense rules enforcement.

Not sure if or how that gets fixed.
RE: my favorite half of a (non-Giant) Superbowl was the first half of the  
NINEster : 11/22/2023 11:18 am : link
In comment 16298776 markky said:
Quote:
Pats vs. Panthers, a defensive battle. not that it was spectacular, just that I like defense. we'll never see that again.


What do you think of the Rams/Patriots Super Bowl a few years back?

That didn't have a score until later in the 3rd quarter I think.

But I agree, those are usually the best games.

The way the Chiefs/Eagles game started out this week was really cool to see.
RE: …  
NINEster : 11/22/2023 11:30 am : link
In comment 16298818 christian said:
Quote:


5) Pass interference be a 15 yard or spot foul, whatever is less


I like this a lot, but as a starting point for discussion, as I am not sure it doesn't open up favoritism to the defense much the same way these cheap PI calls make it easy on offense to get free 40 yard plays here and there.

Defensive holding as 5 yard penalty, good. Automatic first down? I'm not sure. Would maybe have to be dependent on circumstance.

I think the penalty has been around a long time, but back in the old days with more freedom for press coverage, there was far less risk of a WR running away free from a DB to necessitate the hold.

Until we go back to those rules, kinda hard to deal with this one.
I'd rather hear it from someone  
ghost718 : 11/22/2023 11:52 am : link
who didn't benefit from things like hitting quarterbacks low.Which has evolved into penalties for taps on the helmet, no landing on the quarterback,or shoves out of bounds.

Pretty soon it will be no cursing at the quarterback,or mean faces.
RE: cosmic  
cosmicj : 11/22/2023 12:00 pm : link
In comment 16298810 JonC said:
Quote:
Agree the game needed to evolve somehow, but the evolution to this point is a downgrade to quality of play. I've been complaining about it for 10+ years. I suppose the answer will be they can't put the genie back in the bottle, and the past is in the past. But, it's plain to see.


I realize hitting is part of football, but I think there could be a way more intelligent application of rules, which needs to be combined with changes to tackling. Not going to pretend I have the expertise to go into the details here but one thing I am perplexed by is the continued use of the “kill shot” tackle, which seems to injure team mates more often than opponents.

And part of the problem is that the NFL rulebook is now a miasma of vague interpretive decisions. The league really needs a fresh approach that both protects players and lets officials clearly identify when a foul has been committed. Right now half the players are really injured and fans are constantly complaining about inconsistent reffing. Failure on both fronts.
only thing I will add  
djm : 11/22/2023 12:02 pm : link
the officiating is considered worse because the officials have a tougher job to do these days. The game is over officiated but it's not due to bad officials. The rules dictate more calls and more quick decisions and also, even when the occasional refs call is "right" the fans hate might hate it because when I was a kid QBs got decapitated and played the 2nd half anyway.

The game lends itself to more penalties or more decision making by the refs. Hence, the refs look worse. In addition, the game is disrupted more frequently thx to said legislation and reviews and whatever madness the NFL wants. That too hurts the product.

Every single TD scored is now a wait and see moment. It used to be wham bam thank you mam. Now it's reviewed and hold on--let's take a break and then when we come back...ANOTHER break.

I just cannot watch these games live anymore. The endless, loud and obnoxious commercials make me hate humanity more and more. The night games are torture now.

We're not going back to the good old days so forget it. Money talks. Someone made the great point here that once a product caters towards profit more than product, the goose has been killed. We're still gonna lap this shit up.

Reminds me that every profitable single thing in this country is worse than what it used to be except for TVs. They cost less and look better--and even new TVs don't last 1/2 as long as the TVs from the 80s lasted.

This is how it works now. Blame greed.
My Interest In Sports In General And The NFL In Particular  
Trainmaster : 11/22/2023 12:06 pm : link
Has declined significantly over the years. Poor products and too much non sports related issues creeping into games etc.
players aren't going back to the days of  
djm : 11/22/2023 12:08 pm : link
2 a day practices or more practice time during the offseason and regular season and why should they? Why should they work harder for the same money?

Let's be honest here, the shittier the player has it, the better the fan experience is. The more money players make, the worse the fan experience is. When players were making shit, the games were cheaper. The more the game is legislated to protect against player injury the worse the fans have it.

As long as owners are allowed to make insane profits, and who can stop them, the fans will suffer. The only people with a chance to negotiate is the player. And they have. Fans can't negotiate shit unless they simply stop going to the game. We had our shot. We cave every time.
RE: RE: …  
Milton : 11/22/2023 12:11 pm : link
Quote:
5) Pass interference be a 15 yard or spot foul, whatever is less
This is unfair to the offense, if anything it should be the greater of the two.

Quote:
Defensive holding as 5 yard penalty, good. Automatic first down? I'm not sure. Would maybe have to be dependent on circumstance.
It needs to be an automatic first down it's unfair to the offense, because the defensive holding may have been what prevented a first down. Are the refs supposed to inject their subjective opinion on whether or not the play would've resulted in a first down without the holding call?

One rule change I might make is to make offensive holding a 5-yard penalty on running plays, but kept as a 10-yard penalty on pass plays. This would be consistent with the fact that teams generally average roughly 3.5-4.0 yards per run play and 6.5-7.5 yards per pass play and also consistent with the fact that when RBs are stuffed it generally means no-gain or a loss of a couple yards and when QBs are sacked it's usually for a loss of 5 to 10 yards (so the penalty better fits the crime).
I read this yesterday  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/22/2023 12:15 pm : link
and I thought he made some really good points. I agreed that some of the issues are tied to the college game and would even argue it goes back to even lower levels of football.


I am sorry bur he is at least partially responsible  
Blue Dream : 11/22/2023 12:16 pm : link
For the decline in the product. Part of makes it bad is the ridiculous increase in defensive fouls which he ushered in by whining like a little bitch everytime he was touched
He's being kind to them.  
Red Dog : 11/22/2023 12:39 pm : link
Today's NFL sucks donkey balls.
under the rules today  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/22/2023 12:47 pm : link
the Giants would not have made it to, or won, Super Bowl XXV.
RE: I hate to say this sounds like get off my lawn stuff  
KingBlue : 11/22/2023 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16298795 cosmicj said:
Quote:
“ “I look at a lot of players like Ray Lewis and Rodney Harrison and Ronnie Lott, and guys that impacted the game in a certain way, and every hit they would have made would have been a penalty,” Brady said.”

Those hits led to physical problems that are unacceptable today, both because of societal standards and the microscope of online coverage of sports. I remember reading an account of one of Terrell Davis’ games where he was fighting off hits to the head, this was in the late 90s, and it’s unthinkable that the coaches involved would have survived with their careers in the present environment. Things have changed and the game needs to evolve.

I think the problem is that the league isn’t serious enough about confronting long term physical damage to its players.

I also don’t believe Brady is correct about coaching. If anything, I bet the disappearance of long term coaching advantages have been decreased by league wide leveling up in the quality of coaching. The situation is similar to why batters no longer hit .400 in the MLB. Are the batters worse? Absolutely not, they are facing more consistent pitching.


In regards to your comment above: "I also don't believe Brady is correct about coaching"...

How do you think Dabs, Rivera, McCarthy and Siriani compare to Parcells, Gibbs, Tom Landry, Buddy Ryan, Jimmy Johnson, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid, Dick Vermiel?
Wasn't Brady the NFL product...  
Chris in Philly : 11/22/2023 1:14 pm : link
like one year ago. Seems a little disingenuous...
RE: Wasn't Brady the NFL product...  
Sean : 11/22/2023 1:16 pm : link
In comment 16299100 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
like one year ago. Seems a little disingenuous...

I had this same thought.
KingBlue  
cosmicj : 11/22/2023 1:37 pm : link
What about Ray Flaherty and Greasy Neal? You shouldn’t limit yourself to just 50 years of NFL coaching. Reach back into the 30s for that list.
RE: KingBlue  
KingBlue : 11/22/2023 1:50 pm : link
In comment 16299121 cosmicj said:
Quote:
What about Ray Flaherty and Greasy Neal? You shouldn’t limit yourself to just 50 years of NFL coaching. Reach back into the 30s for that list.


I just think his comment holds water... that's all. Those are just some of the Great Coaches in the NFC East in my lifetime. I don't think his comment is controversial at all. In fact I fully agree with him.
RE: Wasn't Brady the NFL product...  
HBart : 11/22/2023 2:37 pm : link
In comment 16299100 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
like one year ago. Seems a little disingenuous...

He was part of a product he felt declining around him. It's OK for him to say so.

It's true -- we see it. Even so, what older dude doesn't think his ______ sucks compared to the old days?
RE: I hate to say this sounds like get off my lawn stuff  
HomerJones45 : 11/22/2023 3:04 pm : link
In comment 16298795 cosmicj said:
Quote:
“ “I look at a lot of players like Ray Lewis and Rodney Harrison and Ronnie Lott, and guys that impacted the game in a certain way, and every hit they would have made would have been a penalty,” Brady said.”

Those hits led to physical problems that are unacceptable today, both because of societal standards and the microscope of online coverage of sports. I remember reading an account of one of Terrell Davis’ games where he was fighting off hits to the head, this was in the late 90s, and it’s unthinkable that the coaches involved would have survived with their careers in the present environment. Things have changed and the game needs to evolve.

I think the problem is that the league isn’t serious enough about confronting long term physical damage to its players.

I also don’t believe Brady is correct about coaching. If anything, I bet the disappearance of long term coaching advantages have been decreased by league wide leveling up in the quality of coaching. The situation is similar to why batters no longer hit .400 in the MLB. Are the batters worse? Absolutely not, they are facing more consistent pitching.
Lots to unpack here.

Actually batters have changed their approach to the game and stopped worrying about strikeouts. If anything, the pitching has gotten more diluted and is worse.

Coaches have also changed their approach. At one time, the emphasis was on simple t-formation offenses well-executed. Players were drilled time and time again on fundamentals. Now, coaches use multiple formations, multiple personnel situational packages, motion and the shotgun formation. Defenses rarely blitzed, and when they did it was a linebacker and once in a while the free safety. Now, corners blitz, linemen drop into coverage, etc etc.

It is difficult to get all that coordinated and functioning properly. You are going to get errors and penalties. The level of play is going to at least seem to deteriorate.

Player safety is a desirable goal but there is no way to make a game that calls for people hitting each other with their bodies 100% safe.
I agree with his overall points  
moespree : 11/22/2023 3:14 pm : link
Though some of the rules he is questioning were put into place to protects guys like him and Peyton Manning. So there's an irony there.
NFL product quality has declined  
kelly : 11/22/2023 4:31 pm : link
It's all about profits for the owners and higher pay for the players. This is what happens when you have a monopoly. Th product always suffers. You pay more for lower quality. Economics 101.

I mean the NFL and players can't talk about player safety when they cut a pre-season game and add another regular season game. Players have a hard time staying healthy for 16 let alone 17 games.

Sure if you are a QB no big deal going to 17 games but what about the rest of the players? How about running backs? If I were a running back I would not be happy going to 17 games. And then you keep the roster size the same even knowing there will be more injuries.

I am starting to see more similarities between the NFL and flag football.
RE: under the rules today  
fanoftheteam : 11/22/2023 9:02 pm : link
In comment 16299074 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the Giants would not have made it to, or won, Super Bowl XXV.


Heck, even 42. Is Jay Alfords sack a 15 yarder and first down now? Also I remember Gibril Wilson and Kawika Mitchell lighting up Brady on a few plays including the “touching of the helmet” which as one poster pointed out as needing to be taken away.
wonder if he complained  
bc4life : 11/24/2023 12:08 pm : link
about the bubble wrap treatment of QBs?
RE: It’s disturbing  
JOrthman : 11/24/2023 2:02 pm : link
In comment 16298821 mittenedman said:
Quote:

You’ve got offenses like NY that look like they all met each other for the first time in the lobby before the game.


This line was so perfect it made me laugh out loud.
The OL Committee guys  
HBart : 11/24/2023 2:19 pm : link
Were 100% in agreement, and they're young ex-players -- not get off my lawn you kids old vets. Said there's no way they a player could be prepared to play OL today the way were and had to.
Injuries  
JOrthman : 11/24/2023 2:40 pm : link
One thing I wanted to mention is players are part of the problem with injuries. No one actually tries to make a real tackle anymore. Every college and pro game I watch I keep seeing players flying headfirst into another, which usually results in a missed tackle and often an injury.
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