Andrew Thomas playing on a sprained MCL

he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return.

Playing, and at a decent level, with something other players would be sitting down with

In comment 16298913 Eric from BBI said:

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he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return.

The big question is should he be playing. The season is lost, and he’s one of, if not the most important player for this franchise going forward.

At a minimum this answers the question as to whether the Giants are tanking.

I'd call it a soft tanking.

In comment 16298920 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16298913 Eric from BBI said: Quote: he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return. The big question is should he be playing. The season is lost, and he’s one of, if not the most important player for this franchise going forward.

You start playing that game, you lose the locker room.

"There are 3 grades of sprains. A grade one sprain involves stretching and minor tearing of the MCL fibers; a grade two sprain involves partial (50%) tearing; and, a grade three sprain is a complete tear or rupture of the MCL. After sustaining any type of MCL injury, there may be difficulty bending and straightening the knee."
link - ( New Window )

But if trainers feel there is no risk of further damage, why not? We don't want to waste the remaining weeks of the season as if they're useless just because the playoffs are likely out of reach. And having a reliable left tackle gives the rest of the offense a chance to develop. If DeVito has a chance to become a career backup or better, we won't know it if he spends the rest of the season running for his life. And the trickle down effect impacts the rest of the young talent on offense trying to make a name for themselves. It even spills over to the defense, because an offense that can't crack double digits in points is going to change how opposing offenses attack our defense (why play anything but vanilla on offense, if you only need 14 or so points to win the game?).

On the other hand, if there is increased risk of tearing your ACL playing on a sprained MCL, I would rethink it.

I understand the concern. It's basically up to the doctors/trainers to decide. If they are incompetent, it's the wrong decision. If you trust them, he should play.

You can't keep wrapping your players up in bubble wrap.

Or any tanking at all would involve shutting AT down, no? That’s the fastest way to short circuit an already pathetic offense. And it would be completely justified and not even raise eyebrows

I think it proves the opposite but idk for sure.

Players play. I’m sure there was a ton medical opinions weighing in on this. I know many on BBI have a low opinion of giants doctors etc, but HSS is highly regarded and the players trust the medical ppl (according to a NFLPA survey)

With so many NFL players suiting up to play while hurt each weekend, JJ’s statement that he won’t play until he is 100% really stands out in a bad way. AT is a warrior.

In comment 16298931 Eric from BBI said:

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I understand the concern. It's basically up to the doctors/trainers to decide. If they are incompetent, it's the wrong decision. If you trust them, he should play. You can't keep wrapping your players up in bubble wrap.

The medical staff on this team has not earned that trust from us. They left Thomas out there in a blow out lost to Dallas in week 1. This caused Thomas to miss 7 games. The Giants season was basically lost in those 7 games as the did not have a functional offensive line.

That's a fair concern.

In comment 16298943 MojoEd said:

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With so many NFL players suiting up to play while hurt each weekend, JJ’s statement that he won’t play until he is 100% really stands out in a bad way. AT is a warrior.

Jefferson hasn’t been extended and is due for a HUGE contract. I don’t blame him one bit.

Before knee surgeries they all played on MCL and ACL's. Remember the "trick Knee"? That is when they lost a MCL/ACL and had no support to keep the knee from popping out. Frank Gifford used to talk about getting his knee all taped up to keep it from popping out when he played. They didn't even have knee braces but played with it.

A different time, but still.

all over the field last week between plays, not surprised

In comment 16298931 Eric from BBI said:

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I understand the concern. It's basically up to the doctors/trainers to decide. If they are incompetent, it's the wrong decision. If you trust them, he should play. You can't keep wrapping your players up in bubble wrap.

You mean the same people who let him play half of the Dallas game with a hamstring injury. And then let him practice before it was healed so he aggravated it? How many games did he miss? And who was at left tackle because of that when Jones hurt his neck? You can directly tie that decision to the season basically being over on Oct. 8.

Him. Down.

Was talking about Ronnie Barnes - saying he's known by players as the best head trainer in the league because he protects them; he doesn't bow to coaching pressure. Another ex-Giants echo'd him.

Assuming Prince is forthright, any Giant on the field isn't significantly increasing their re-injury risk. "Sprain" is a broad spectrum.

The dude is tough as nails but I'd love to see him in 2024 at full strength.

If it is a lower-grade sprain/strain, properly braced it's a pain tolerance issue. I have no issue with him playing... while he is clearly limited he's still the best OL on the field by a considerable margin, and this is not a situation where he is at appreciably higher risk of a much worse injury.

In comment 16298975 HBart said:

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Was talking about Ronnie Barnes - saying he's known by players as the best head trainer in the league because he protects them; he doesn't bow to coaching pressure. Another ex-Giants echo'd him. Assuming Prince is forthright, any Giant on the field isn't significantly increasing their re-injury risk. "Sprain" is a broad spectrum.

That's nice to know.

is often non-surgical and a 4-8 week injury in the NFL. Only in rare circumstances is a reconstructive surgery necessary.

MCL ≠ ACL

are on that great MetLife turf. What could possibly go wrong?

In comment 16298971 Spider43 said:

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Him. Down.

+1.

.

In comment 16298920 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16298913 Eric from BBI said: Quote: he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return. The big question is should he be playing. The season is lost, and he’s one of, if not the most important player for this franchise going forward.

Again, lost season, that s a fan perspective. These guys make millions to do their job, regardless of the team’s record

In comment 16299033 joeinpa said:

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Again, lost season, that's a fan perspective. These guys make millions to do their job, regardless of the team’s record.

It's not about the money, they could be making ten bucks an hour and it would still be about player development in my mind. Our young talent, especially on offense, isn't going to grow as much as possible if nearly every play is a broken play and our QB is constantly up against third and ten. And as I said earlier, the spill over will affect the defense as well.

so my main question is:

after a series late in the game on Sunday.

In comment 16299033 joeinpa said:

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In comment 16298920 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16298913 Eric from BBI said: Quote: he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return. The big question is should he be playing. The season is lost, and he’s one of, if not the most important player for this franchise going forward. Again, lost season, that s a fan perspective. These guys make millions to do their job, regardless of the team’s record

I fully understand your point but the Giants are not making the playoffs with a couple of tough games left (Eagles 2x). These last few games should be about getting playing time for our young players, to earn experience for next season. Also Thomas’ long term health should be a big priority for the team, as they have invested heavily in him in draft capital and a second contract.

In comment 16298967 k2tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 16298931 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I understand the concern. It's basically up to the doctors/trainers to decide. If they are incompetent, it's the wrong decision. If you trust them, he should play. You can't keep wrapping your players up in bubble wrap. You mean the same people who let him play half of the Dallas game with a hamstring injury. And then let him practice before it was healed so he aggravated it? How many games did he miss? And who was at left tackle because of that when Jones hurt his neck? You can directly tie that decision to the season basically being over on Oct. 8.

We know that.

So you're in the camp that our doctors/trainers are incompetent..

Meanwhile, what are we saving Thomas for at this point? His vacation in January?

become more clear. Whether we like it or not, teams and players will make business decisions. Teams with losing records and out of playoff contention, like the Giants, will come to the conclusion that they need to look towards 2024. Part of that includes resting key players and giving young players added playing time---a sort of second preseason. I think once we get past the Saints game in New Orleans that this will happen.

Right now, AT will tough it out; however, as the option to go on IR with less than 4 games to go and end a player's season becomes available, teams and players will naturally gravitate towards it. It makes no sense to not do so.

In comment 16298920 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16298913 Eric from BBI said: Quote: he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return. The big question is should he be playing. The season is lost, and he’s one of, if not the most important player for this franchise going forward.

It's November. It was early November when he was playing on the MCL.


Can we stop saying the season is over? Maybe week 16 if/when the team is completely out of it and guess what if the guy can play without much risk he's going to play then too.


People need to stop saying the season is over. And no, I am not talking about playoffs or making the playoffs. It still isn't over. You don't bench your best players...for fucks sake.

In comment 16298975 HBart said:

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Was talking about Ronnie Barnes - saying he's known by players as the best head trainer in the league because he protects them; he doesn't bow to coaching pressure. Another ex-Giants echo'd him. Assuming Prince is forthright, any Giant on the field isn't significantly increasing their re-injury risk. "Sprain" is a broad spectrum.

Yea too bad many people believe in made up bullshit rather than actual testimonial evidence to the contrary. It's all about what you want to believe these days.

In comment 16298944 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16298931 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I understand the concern. It's basically up to the doctors/trainers to decide. If they are incompetent, it's the wrong decision. If you trust them, he should play. You can't keep wrapping your players up in bubble wrap. The medical staff on this team has not earned that trust from us. They left Thomas out there in a blow out lost to Dallas in week 1. This caused Thomas to miss 7 games. The Giants season was basically lost in those 7 games as the did not have a functional offensive line.

Yes and no. It's hard to say the severity of the hammy and how much time he missed, if they pulled him in the 1st quarter. You can see him pull up, so he already hurt the hammy. On average, that is a difficult injury to gauge. It takes a long time to heal. Who's to say even if they pulled him, he wouldn't have still need most or all of that 7 weeks to heal? Blame himself for that damned false start, which kicked off the chain of events leading to him pulling the hammy...but it was likely already tight, which is a bigger problem given how early in the game it was.

In comment 16299092 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16298975 HBart said: Quote: Was talking about Ronnie Barnes - saying he's known by players as the best head trainer in the league because he protects them; he doesn't bow to coaching pressure. Another ex-Giants echo'd him. Assuming Prince is forthright, any Giant on the field isn't significantly increasing their re-injury risk. "Sprain" is a broad spectrum. Yea too bad many people believe in made up bullshit rather than actual testimonial evidence to the contrary. It's all about what you want to believe these days.

that's another echo chamber sentiment that you cannot discuss rationally

In comment 16298924 christian said:

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At a minimum this answers the question as to whether the Giants are tanking. I'd call it a soft tanking.

There is no tanking. Teams that lose a lot of games are just bad teams. They don't need to "tank" to lose.

In comment 16299076 JoeyBigBlue said:

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These last few games should be about getting playing time for our young players, to earn experience for next season.

Exactly! And what kind of experience will be earned if the DeVito is forever running for his life and the offense consists of a slew of three and outs. You want leadership from your high paid veterans in times like this and that comes from Andrew Thomas being on the field with the youngsters.

draft pick.

But as a team, you can't just give up. Specifically, if a guy like Thomas can tough it out it's an important message to the rest of the team to do what is necessary.

Over our medical and training staffs have every right. But first of sll, every person has the right to privacy involving his medical condition. Now the team has the right to know what his condition is for obvious reasons. So how does this leak out, and how accurate is it. We started to wonder I'd Thomas was soft before this information got out. He has been injured often enough, and does ge come back quickly? That was very questionable, so my guess, this was leaked from the Thomas crew to make him look like a warriors. To squash the soft talk. So why would that be good, because he is probably injured, but is okay to play. He knows better then anyone after the doctors give him all the information about his injury. I think this is overblown.

In comment 16299205 PaulN said:

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Over our medical and training staffs have every right. But first of sll, every person has the right to privacy involving his medical condition. Now the team has the right to know what his condition is for obvious reasons. So how does this leak out, and how accurate is it.

Teams are required to public report injuries because of legalized gambling. They don't have to be as specific as sprained knee, but they needed to say it's a knee (I think).

Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
2m
·
Bobby Okereke has a broken rib, a hairline fracture. But he said he’s playing Sunday.

“I dislocated my pinky and that hurt more than this.”

#Giants

don't wear and tear on an injured knee unnecessarily in a lost season.

In comment 16299248 GiantTuff1 said:

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don't wear and tear on an injured knee unnecessarily in a lost season.

Huh, we're still alive!

/S

In comment 16299079 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16298967 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 16298931 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I understand the concern. It's basically up to the doctors/trainers to decide. If they are incompetent, it's the wrong decision. If you trust them, he should play. You can't keep wrapping your players up in bubble wrap. You mean the same people who let him play half of the Dallas game with a hamstring injury. And then let him practice before it was healed so he aggravated it? How many games did he miss? And who was at left tackle because of that when Jones hurt his neck? You can directly tie that decision to the season basically being over on Oct. 8. We know that. So you're in the camp that our doctors/trainers are incompetent.. Meanwhile, what are we saving Thomas for at this point? His vacation in January?

No, I don't know whether they are or not. But it is a fact they let him continue in that game. And approved what he did in practice that aggravated it.

I know that every single source says treatment for an MCL sprain or tear includes first and foremost rest, not playing NFL football.

It should also be noted the docs and trainers work for the teams. Now, I don't know anything about the Giants' group, but there have been lawsuits won by players over the years because a doc or trainer was looking out for a team's interest rather than the player's.

I also know from experience most players will do anything to get on the field, including lying to docs and trainers. Especially if their job is at stake. Which makes it even more important that the docs and trainers are operating in the player's best interest.

So the real question is, is trying to win a meaningless game or two in Thomas' best interest medically?

In comment 16299264 Spider43 said:

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In comment 16299248 GiantTuff1 said: Quote: don't wear and tear on an injured knee unnecessarily in a lost season. Huh, we're still alive! /S

Being alive mathematically is not being alive realistically. The Giants pretty much need every NFC team to be hit by a nuclear attack for them to make the playoffs.

In comment 16299284 k2tampa said:

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In comment 16299264 Spider43 said: Quote: In comment 16299248 GiantTuff1 said: Quote: don't wear and tear on an injured knee unnecessarily in a lost season. Huh, we're still alive! /S Being alive mathematically is not being alive realistically. The Giants pretty much need every NFC team to be hit by a nuclear attack for them to make the playoffs.

I'ze being sarcastic, K2 (that's the '/S' at the end). I'm firmly in the tank camp. 'Been so since the Raydahs loss.

In comment 16299076 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16299033 joeinpa said: Quote: In comment 16298920 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16298913 Eric from BBI said: Quote: he was playing with the knee issue because we saw him leave the game with it and later return. The big question is should he be playing. The season is lost, and he’s one of, if not the most important player for this franchise going forward. Again, lost season, that s a fan perspective. These guys make millions to do their job, regardless of the team’s record I fully understand your point but the Giants are not making the playoffs with a couple of tough games left (Eagles 2x). These last few games should be about getting playing time for our young players, to earn experience for next season. Also Thomas’ long term health should be a big priority for the team, as they have invested heavily in him in draft capital and a second contract.

I m not arguing your point, had the same thought myself. I m just saying I don’t think that s how they view it

The line needs him to attempt to allow that to happen.

But I'll take a look.

In comment 16299343 Goin Deep said:

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But I'll take a look.