Worst in football…by a lot. You can see where all the good teams land. Big outlier seems to be the Redskins, maybe an indictment of Howell and/or Rivera. Bills underperforming, maybe a strong close by them is coming; weakness for them seems to be on the other side of the ball.
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
If the "ny" logo indicates where the Giants stand, they seem to be equally bad at both. And what's the purpose of the diagonal lines?
The giants might be right around the same score in both. The diagonal lines are 20% intervals and allows you to see the plot point better when comparing the two grades.
Is pretty much confirmed by this. Johnson should go. Neal does not have the feet for RT. Move to guard pretty much need to sign 2 to 3 veterans for the line. Draft Harrison and Daniel's. Let's go on from there
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
Yes it does.
This chart can't be correct. I understand it's the
From an analytical standpoint, I always wondered what each QB would do if they were on the opposite teams. Living in Philly, I get to see a QB with the absolute historic level #1 oline, two #1 wrs, a top 5-10 tight end and running back…….versus what DJ has. #1 situation vs #32 situation.
From an analytical standpoint, I always wondered what each QB would do if they were on the opposite teams. Living in Philly, I get to see a QB with the absolute historic level #1 oline, two #1 wrs, a top 5-10 tight end and running back…….versus what DJ has. #1 situation vs #32 situation.
Probably safe to say that it’s a lot harder processing the field behind the #32 line than it is behind the #1 line.
It's almost like in order for a line to be considered good, it helps to have a quarterback who can do his part to make that line look good.
Most of our games were Danny and tyrod, who have experience and Good Seasons under their belt, so this chart is an exceptionally bad look for our offensive line.
I'm perfectly OK with taking Fashanu or Alt, moving Neal to G, and taking a QB in the 2nd (or trading into back end of 1st). We've got to try to improve that unit, and good FA Tackles don't come cheap.
DO you watch the games? The OL just played its first full game together with AT back. Even without all the other injuries and street replacements - compare the NFL record of QBs with/without their starting OLT. Then make it an All-Pro OLT. It's not pretty.
Jones played poorly. Part of what sucks about that is it's impossible to tease his crap play out from OL play that was markedly worse (with obviously worse players) than the other guys.
How Taylor played so much better thing is kind of comical . We scored 9 and 14 points with him as the starter. I do feel like did some things better and some worse. He certainly got rid of the ball a little quicker.
And I am not saying Jone was playing well because he wasn’t but Taylor wasn’t doing anything great either
RE: All rookie or second year quarterbacks in the lower left quadrant
It's almost like in order for a line to be considered good, it helps to have a quarterback who can do his part to make that line look good.
Most of our games were Danny and tyrod, who have experience and Good Seasons under their belt, so this chart is an exceptionally bad look for our offensive line.
Except Danny doesn't help the OL.
RE: RE: It's amazing Taylor and DeVito played better
DO you watch the games? The OL just played its first full game together with AT back. Even without all the other injuries and street replacements - compare the NFL record of QBs with/without their starting OLT. Then make it an All-Pro OLT. It's not pretty.
Jones played poorly. Part of what sucks about that is it's impossible to tease his crap play out from OL play that was markedly worse (with obviously worse players) than the other guys.
DeVito got sacked 9 times. The line wasn't so great for him either. What is notable is that Daniel Jones played worse than an undrafted rookie free agent QB making his 2nd start. That's the headline.
9 sacks, ask and review to see how many he ran into by scrambling inside rather than running out of the pocket and throwing it away.
right. DeVito sucks. I agree. And many of Jones' sacks he's holding the ball too long, like a zombie, or failing to pickup protections and reads. Can you agree with me that Jones sucks too?
All our QBs suck.
It's not crazy to think that some QBs need more of something than
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
RE: It's not crazy to think that some QBs need more of something than
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Very good points.
RE: It's not crazy to think that some QBs need more of something than
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Your assertion is not crazy at all. I might agree. But with "functional" Jones and the Giants got demolished by the Eagles the very next week. And to start this season he was not able to function. I think these data points disqualify him as nothing more than a bridge starter in the NFL. At some point you will face pressure in a playoff run. It's almost impossible to maintain an ideal situation.
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Your assertion is not crazy at all. I might agree. But with "functional" Jones and the Giants got demolished by the Eagles the very next week. And to start this season he was not able to function. I think these data points disqualify him as nothing more than a bridge starter in the NFL. At some point you will face pressure in a playoff run. It's almost impossible to maintain an ideal situation.
That's fair..but most might argue that with the talent we had on the team last year we had no business even being in the playoffs, let alone the second round playing the eagles. This year we just look cursed.
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
It sure does! Why would it not? Oh, and in the 2nd rd too!
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
It sure does! Why would it not? Oh, and in the 2nd rd too!
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Your assertion is not crazy at all. I might agree. But with "functional" Jones and the Giants got demolished by the Eagles the very next week. And to start this season he was not able to function. I think these data points disqualify him as nothing more than a bridge starter in the NFL. At some point you will face pressure in a playoff run. It's almost impossible to maintain an ideal situation.
That's fair..but most might argue that with the talent we had on the team last year we had no business even being in the playoffs, let alone the second round playing the eagles. This year we just look cursed.
I don't believe in settling on anything but a great QB. Jones will never be great. The contract was ludicrous. We could have gone so many different directions and quite possibly be better. You don't pay for mediocrity in the NFL.
You can't judge a quarterback playing with this line.
Even Thomas has been a huge disappointment this year. An OL of losers this year. The OL coach sucks ass, too. How he hasn't been fired yet, who knows. But this is the same organization that has kept Ronnie Barnes and even inducted him into the Ring of Honor despite the fact that the Giants are the most injured team in the league for at least a decade now, lol.
Let's just keep all the losers. Seems like a great plan. This franchise is getting what it deserves.
9 sacks, ask and review to see how many he ran into by scrambling inside rather than running out of the pocket and throwing it away.
So this is the standard now? Find a QB good at running away from sacks and pressure? How about pumping resources into it until it’s fixed? 12 years of shitty OL play has warped people’s brains.
RE: 40 million could have bought us two very good o linemen
Even Thomas has been a huge disappointment this year. An OL of losers this year. The OL coach sucks ass, too. How he hasn't been fired yet, who knows. But this is the same organization that has kept Ronnie Barnes and even inducted him into the Ring of Honor despite the fact that the Giants are the most injured team in the league for at least a decade now, lol.
Let's just keep all the losers. Seems like a great plan. This franchise is getting what it deserves.
Notice how the rest of your cronies avoid any thread about the OL. I like the poster that makes comparison Eagles ranking vs. Giants. 1st vs. 32nd.
Have a good turkey day.
RE: RE: It's amazing Taylor and DeVito played better
Notice how the rest of your cronies avoid any thread about the OL. I like the poster that makes comparison Eagles ranking vs. Giants. 1st vs. 32nd.
Have a good turkey day.
QBs contribute to pass blocking success or failure. You’re going to need to spell out how this makes DJ an acceptable QB, because done raw stats sure isnt convincing.
Seems pretty evident when you watched a lot of games this season. Obviously, AT and SB being out impacted things.
Good to see the running aspect included. The Giants have had mostly a poor #carries/YPC since 2013 (great destruction of the LOS) and it impacted the pass game. They are connected.
Three game stretch this season (Seattle, Miami and SF) where the RB production averaged 16c/36y/2.25y. I would not expect good pass protection and passing production. Not with the talent and coaching on the team.
Then the running numbers (carries/ypc) improved significantly when SB returned and then AT. So seems upgrading the talent behind SB would be a good thing.
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
That just sucks.
The diagonal lines connect the same value on the X and Y axis.
The giants might be right around the same score in both. The diagonal lines are 20% intervals and allows you to see the plot point better when comparing the two grades.
I'd think we'll just be bad to meh with Thomas back, rather than historically dysfunctional.
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
Yes it does.
It's Jones' fault for the pass blocking, even though the other 2 QBs have been sacked plenty. It's gotta be Barkley's fault for the run blocking....
[Insert eye roll emoji here]
Probably safe to say that it’s a lot harder processing the field behind the #32 line than it is behind the #1 line.
Most of our games were Danny and tyrod, who have experience and Good Seasons under their belt, so this chart is an exceptionally bad look for our offensive line.
DO you watch the games? The OL just played its first full game together with AT back. Even without all the other injuries and street replacements - compare the NFL record of QBs with/without their starting OLT. Then make it an All-Pro OLT. It's not pretty.
Jones played poorly. Part of what sucks about that is it's impossible to tease his crap play out from OL play that was markedly worse (with obviously worse players) than the other guys.
And I am not saying Jone was playing well because he wasn’t but Taylor wasn’t doing anything great either
Most of our games were Danny and tyrod, who have experience and Good Seasons under their belt, so this chart is an exceptionally bad look for our offensive line.
Except Danny doesn't help the OL.
Quote:
than a $100M QB with such poor protection.
DO you watch the games? The OL just played its first full game together with AT back. Even without all the other injuries and street replacements - compare the NFL record of QBs with/without their starting OLT. Then make it an All-Pro OLT. It's not pretty.
Jones played poorly. Part of what sucks about that is it's impossible to tease his crap play out from OL play that was markedly worse (with obviously worse players) than the other guys.
DeVito got sacked 9 times. The line wasn't so great for him either. What is notable is that Daniel Jones played worse than an undrafted rookie free agent QB making his 2nd start. That's the headline.
right. DeVito sucks. I agree. And many of Jones' sacks he's holding the ball too long, like a zombie, or failing to pickup protections and reads. Can you agree with me that Jones sucks too?
All our QBs suck.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Very good points.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Your assertion is not crazy at all. I might agree. But with "functional" Jones and the Giants got demolished by the Eagles the very next week. And to start this season he was not able to function. I think these data points disqualify him as nothing more than a bridge starter in the NFL. At some point you will face pressure in a playoff run. It's almost impossible to maintain an ideal situation.
Quote:
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Your assertion is not crazy at all. I might agree. But with "functional" Jones and the Giants got demolished by the Eagles the very next week. And to start this season he was not able to function. I think these data points disqualify him as nothing more than a bridge starter in the NFL. At some point you will face pressure in a playoff run. It's almost impossible to maintain an ideal situation.
That's fair..but most might argue that with the talent we had on the team last year we had no business even being in the playoffs, let alone the second round playing the eagles. This year we just look cursed.
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
Quote:
the "draft OL" in the 1st crowd?
If we somehow end up out of range for the top 3 QB's I think it's something we should consider. That chart if accurate is damning. If anything a new OL coach with a track record for success should definitely be brought in. I hope they already have a list of candidates.
It sure does! Why would it not? Oh, and in the 2nd rd too!
Why not all seven rounds?
Quote:
In comment 16299334 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
others.
Again, Jones took this team to the playoffs last year and that team didn't have a lot of talent. But the Oline was at least functional.
Jones might be worse than both Taylor and DeVito when given a historically bad OLine. But, he is better than both when given some decent protection. Both can be true.
Imagine what Jones could do with his legs if we had the heads up open field blocking the Eagles have.
Instead we get Bellinger out there whiffing every chance he gets
This team hasn't been able to run a screen for years.
Your assertion is not crazy at all. I might agree. But with "functional" Jones and the Giants got demolished by the Eagles the very next week. And to start this season he was not able to function. I think these data points disqualify him as nothing more than a bridge starter in the NFL. At some point you will face pressure in a playoff run. It's almost impossible to maintain an ideal situation.
That's fair..but most might argue that with the talent we had on the team last year we had no business even being in the playoffs, let alone the second round playing the eagles. This year we just look cursed.
I don't believe in settling on anything but a great QB. Jones will never be great. The contract was ludicrous. We could have gone so many different directions and quite possibly be better. You don't pay for mediocrity in the NFL.
The problem with Jones, what makes them have to find another, is two neck injuries, and a torn ligament on a running quarterback.
Would we be a better team with that set up? I think so.
Let's just keep all the losers. Seems like a great plan. This franchise is getting what it deserves.
So this is the standard now? Find a QB good at running away from sacks and pressure? How about pumping resources into it until it’s fixed? 12 years of shitty OL play has warped people’s brains.
Would we be a better team with that set up? I think so.
I could be wrong but I don't think Jones counted 40 against the cap this season. More along the lines of 19.
Let's just keep all the losers. Seems like a great plan. This franchise is getting what it deserves.
+1
Notice how the rest of your cronies avoid any thread about the OL. I like the poster that makes comparison Eagles ranking vs. Giants. 1st vs. 32nd.
Have a good turkey day.
Quote:
than a $100M QB with such poor protection.
Notice how the rest of your cronies avoid any thread about the OL. I like the poster that makes comparison Eagles ranking vs. Giants. 1st vs. 32nd.
Have a good turkey day.
QBs contribute to pass blocking success or failure. You’re going to need to spell out how this makes DJ an acceptable QB, because done raw stats sure isnt convincing.
40% PFF grade
40% SIS blown block rate
20% ESPN block win rate
Quote:
Has anyone reviewed the methodology behind these rankings?
40% PFF grade
40% SIS blown block rate
20% ESPN block win rate
Maybe I'm being dense, but the Giants PFF grade is a zero it looks like. Can you explain the weighting? Maybe I just need more coffee.
Good to see the running aspect included. The Giants have had mostly a poor #carries/YPC since 2013 (great destruction of the LOS) and it impacted the pass game. They are connected.
Three game stretch this season (Seattle, Miami and SF) where the RB production averaged 16c/36y/2.25y. I would not expect good pass protection and passing production. Not with the talent and coaching on the team.
Then the running numbers (carries/ypc) improved significantly when SB returned and then AT. So seems upgrading the talent behind SB would be a good thing.
Quote:
In comment 16299535 christian said:
Quote:
Has anyone reviewed the methodology behind these rankings?
40% PFF grade
40% SIS blown block rate
20% ESPN block win rate
Maybe I'm being dense, but the Giants PFF grade is a zero it looks like. Can you explain the weighting? Maybe I just need more coffee.
That's what they posted in the tweets preceeding the linked tweet with the graph.They rescaled from 0 to 100