or realize Neal’s feet / foot movement is too slow to play tackle at the NFL level.
I hear this criticism, over and over again by fans who admit that they have an untrained eye ( not just Trainmaster).
Seriously, if this is the issue... how come the trained eyes don't see it and adjust?
They probably want to give him time to improve before switching his position. Willie Anderson even said, he probably wouldn't click until later in the year. It's unfortunate the guy's season has largely been derailed by injury, starting with missing the Lions practices.
+ a veteran swing tackle that can fill in if he gets hurt (which he's shown he will). Tyre Phillips can probably fit that bill but I would love to see that positon upgraded. Not an easy thing to do given the state of OL play across the league.
If Neal shows little to no improvement after 2024, you decline his 5th year option and let him compete at G for 2025.
But with that level of investment, you need to give him more opportunities.
or realize Neal’s feet / foot movement is too slow to play tackle at the NFL level.
I hear this criticism, over and over again by fans who admit that they have an untrained eye ( not just Trainmaster).
Seriously, if this is the issue... how come the trained eyes don't see it and adjust?
They probably want to give him time to improve before switching his position. Willie Anderson even said, he probably wouldn't click until later in the year. It's unfortunate the guy's season has largely been derailed by injury, starting with missing the Lions practices.
Is the attribute "too slow moving feet to play the position" improvable? It seems to me, the way it is characterized, if you have slow moving feet, then you cannot play Tackle in the NFL.
relatively static,for the rest of this season.
Do we trade down and draft another OL in the first?
Chase the hot QB and reach for that, or find a way to get a playmaking WR ala Marvin Harrison Jr
RE: Daboll moves OL around more than any coach I've seen
They led the league in different starting lineups last year. McKethan at tackle in camp then guard, Ezeudu at tackle and guard, Pugh at tackle and guard, Phillips at tackle and guard, Bredeson has started at every interior position. 2nd rounder Cody Ford at Buffalo they moved all over.
I think Neal still has a chance to be the week 1 RT, obviously how free agency goes will tell us a lot more, but I strongly believe we see Neal at guard a good deal in preseason to get a sense how he looks.
__________
I don’t think you can waste the next preseason experimenting. Either you keep him at RT for one more chance or commit to a position change. You have to consider his contract in your decision.
RE: RE: RE: Honest question: how come the Giants coaches don't see....
or realize Neal’s feet / foot movement is too slow to play tackle at the NFL level.
I hear this criticism, over and over again by fans who admit that they have an untrained eye ( not just Trainmaster).
Seriously, if this is the issue... how come the trained eyes don't see it and adjust?
They probably want to give him time to improve before switching his position. Willie Anderson even said, he probably wouldn't click until later in the year. It's unfortunate the guy's season has largely been derailed by injury, starting with missing the Lions practices.
Is the attribute "too slow moving feet to play the position" improvable? It seems to me, the way it is characterized, if you have slow moving feet, then you cannot play Tackle in the NFL.
I hear you. I guess the simplest answer is they have not concluded that his feet are too slow for T. Then again, there are politics at play with a top 10 pick. There are specific longterm plans with high draft picks with tons of evaluation going into it. Some org's are more reluctant than others to change the trajectory of their premium resources.
For me? I don't care where he plays, as long as he's good. But I didn't draft him. I think G's are critical in today's interior pressure NFL. I think he'd hold up better in pass pro 1on1, but his issues picking up stunts and blitzers wouldn't magically go away.
Why do slow feet make a player a better guard prospect than a tackle
In fact, it is often somewhat like jumping off a cliff.
Giants should definitely come into training camp with EN at RT on the 1st unit. We should also have a Plan B, which does not involve our #1.
No national scout that I am aware of, questioned whether EN had the feet to play OT, although reports did mention that his foot quickness was not elite.
Prospect? Tell me what about Neal makes him a good guard.
I assume this is a serious question.....you are not operating in space as an OG. So it would minimize the amount of movement. Sure, he still has to move - just not as much.
Right now, teams are torturing him a bit with wide alignments, stunts and blitzes where they're trying to force him to move laterally. Again - he's still going to need to pick up stunts and blitzers well at OG, but he won't be in space. That's the idea behind him being a good G. He's got excellent straight line movement ability too so he'd be pretty good in a zone running scheme (like they used at Alabama). IMO.
RE: Learning to do something well is often not steadily linear
In fact, it is often somewhat like jumping off a cliff.
Giants should definitely come into training camp with EN at RT on the 1st unit. We should also have a Plan B, which does not involve our #1.
No national scout that I am aware of, questioned whether EN had the feet to play OT, although reports did mention that his foot quickness was not elite.
Bob, he skipped all his movement workouts so how would they really know? He had balance issues at T in college, as Sy pointed out. For the people questioning what evidence there was he'd be a good G .... do people realize he played G for a year at Alabama? He was good, and it was part of the reason he was such a sought-after draft pick. (Versatility.) The common theme around Neal was, if he flopped at T, he'd make an excellent G. (Similar to the Brandan Scherff and Robert Gallery reports.)
Given that, there is no shame in moving him to G. The key is getting quality play. And this is coming from someone who is OK letting him develop at RT, as he looks like he's improving, and he's playing within an OL/offense that is obviously poorly coached.
RE: RE: Learning to do something well is often not steadily linear
Bob, he skipped all his movement workouts so how would they really know? He had balance issues at T in college, as Sy pointed out. For the people questioning what evidence there was he'd be a good G .... do people realize he played G for a year at Alabama? He was good, and it was part of the reason he was such a sought-after draft pick. (Versatility.) The common theme around Neal was, if he flopped at T, he'd make an excellent G. (Similar to the Brandan Scherff and Robert Gallery reports.)
Given that, there is no shame in moving him to G. The key is getting quality play. And this is coming from someone who is OK letting him develop at RT, as he looks like he's improving, and he's playing within an OL/offense that is obviously poorly coached.
Scherff was prototype size for a guard at 6'4 1/2", 319. He ran a very good 40y at his combine (5.05). As noted above, Neal is a full three inches taller, not the prototype.
Gallery was 6'7" but, even more so than Scherff, a combine star, even superstar. His sub-5 40y (4.97) at his size was astounding, and he tested very well in the agility drills (3-cone and shuttle).
Gallery moved to guard in his fourth season and was just OK, not a roaring success.
Neal has shown nothing to indicate he has the movement ability of Scherff and Gallery. For all we know, if he had submitted himself to the 40y drill, he might have run a 5.5.
Bob, he skipped all his movement workouts so how would they really know? He had balance issues at T in college, as Sy pointed out. For the people questioning what evidence there was he'd be a good G .... do people realize he played G for a year at Alabama? He was good, and it was part of the reason he was such a sought-after draft pick. (Versatility.) The common theme around Neal was, if he flopped at T, he'd make an excellent G. (Similar to the Brandan Scherff and Robert Gallery reports.)
Given that, there is no shame in moving him to G. The key is getting quality play. And this is coming from someone who is OK letting him develop at RT, as he looks like he's improving, and he's playing within an OL/offense that is obviously poorly coached.
Scherff was prototype size for a guard at 6'4 1/2", 319. He ran a very good 40y at his combine (5.05). As noted above, Neal is a full three inches taller, not the prototype.
Gallery was 6'7" but, even more so than Scherff, a combine star, even superstar. His sub-5 40y (4.97) at his size was astounding, and he tested very well in the agility drills (3-cone and shuttle).
Gallery moved to guard in his fourth season and was just OK, not a roaring success.
Neal has shown nothing to indicate he has the movement ability of Scherff and Gallery. For all we know, if he had submitted himself to the 40y drill, he might have run a 5.5.
I’m honestly not sure what your point is. Moving inside would minimize his weaknesses and maximize his strengths. That’s my opinion. I brought up Scherff in particular as a top 10 pick that was considered a T/G and found a home at G. Zack Martin is another example, although slightly outside the top 10. You think DAL cares he ended up at G?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Learning to do something well is often not steadily linear
I’m honestly not sure what your point is. Moving inside would minimize his weaknesses and maximize his strengths. That’s my opinion. I brought up Scherff in particular as a top 10 pick that was considered a T/G and found a home at G. Zack Martin is another example, although slightly outside the top 10. You think DAL cares he ended up at G?
If you're unclear why we disagree, I suggest reading my post upthread. Guards need to move their feet; they need to be agile; that's one reason guards are generally smaller than tackles.
The other reason guards run smaller than tackles is that high center of gravity is not an advantage in the interior OL.
Zack Martin is 6'4" 308, again prototype size for a guard. Neal doesn't remotely resemble that.
Getting him out in space exposes his weaknesses and minimizes his strengths.
He does seem to be getting better at RT, but I can't shake the feeling he'd be a kickass G. And we desperately need 2 of them.
I hear this criticism, over and over again by fans who admit that they have an untrained eye ( not just Trainmaster).
Seriously, if this is the issue... how come the trained eyes don't see it and adjust?
They probably want to give him time to improve before switching his position. Willie Anderson even said, he probably wouldn't click until later in the year. It's unfortunate the guy's season has largely been derailed by injury, starting with missing the Lions practices.
If Neal shows little to no improvement after 2024, you decline his 5th year option and let him compete at G for 2025.
But with that level of investment, you need to give him more opportunities.
But looking to either of them to seriously compete for a starting job is a fool's errand.
Quote:
or realize Neal’s feet / foot movement is too slow to play tackle at the NFL level.
I hear this criticism, over and over again by fans who admit that they have an untrained eye ( not just Trainmaster).
Seriously, if this is the issue... how come the trained eyes don't see it and adjust?
They probably want to give him time to improve before switching his position. Willie Anderson even said, he probably wouldn't click until later in the year. It's unfortunate the guy's season has largely been derailed by injury, starting with missing the Lions practices.
Is the attribute "too slow moving feet to play the position" improvable? It seems to me, the way it is characterized, if you have slow moving feet, then you cannot play Tackle in the NFL.
Do we trade down and draft another OL in the first?
Chase the hot QB and reach for that, or find a way to get a playmaking WR ala Marvin Harrison Jr
I think Neal still has a chance to be the week 1 RT, obviously how free agency goes will tell us a lot more, but I strongly believe we see Neal at guard a good deal in preseason to get a sense how he looks.
I don’t think you can waste the next preseason experimenting. Either you keep him at RT for one more chance or commit to a position change. You have to consider his contract in your decision.
Quote:
In comment 16299903 KingBlue said:
Quote:
or realize Neal’s feet / foot movement is too slow to play tackle at the NFL level.
I hear this criticism, over and over again by fans who admit that they have an untrained eye ( not just Trainmaster).
Seriously, if this is the issue... how come the trained eyes don't see it and adjust?
They probably want to give him time to improve before switching his position. Willie Anderson even said, he probably wouldn't click until later in the year. It's unfortunate the guy's season has largely been derailed by injury, starting with missing the Lions practices.
Is the attribute "too slow moving feet to play the position" improvable? It seems to me, the way it is characterized, if you have slow moving feet, then you cannot play Tackle in the NFL.
I hear you. I guess the simplest answer is they have not concluded that his feet are too slow for T. Then again, there are politics at play with a top 10 pick. There are specific longterm plans with high draft picks with tons of evaluation going into it. Some org's are more reluctant than others to change the trajectory of their premium resources.
For me? I don't care where he plays, as long as he's good. But I didn't draft him. I think G's are critical in today's interior pressure NFL. I think he'd hold up better in pass pro 1on1, but his issues picking up stunts and blitzers wouldn't magically go away.
Giants should definitely come into training camp with EN at RT on the 1st unit. We should also have a Plan B, which does not involve our #1.
No national scout that I am aware of, questioned whether EN had the feet to play OT, although reports did mention that his foot quickness was not elite.
At least he won't get put on roller skates inside like he does outside.
I assume this is a serious question.....you are not operating in space as an OG. So it would minimize the amount of movement. Sure, he still has to move - just not as much.
Right now, teams are torturing him a bit with wide alignments, stunts and blitzes where they're trying to force him to move laterally. Again - he's still going to need to pick up stunts and blitzers well at OG, but he won't be in space. That's the idea behind him being a good G. He's got excellent straight line movement ability too so he'd be pretty good in a zone running scheme (like they used at Alabama). IMO.
Giants should definitely come into training camp with EN at RT on the 1st unit. We should also have a Plan B, which does not involve our #1.
No national scout that I am aware of, questioned whether EN had the feet to play OT, although reports did mention that his foot quickness was not elite.
Bob, he skipped all his movement workouts so how would they really know? He had balance issues at T in college, as Sy pointed out. For the people questioning what evidence there was he'd be a good G .... do people realize he played G for a year at Alabama? He was good, and it was part of the reason he was such a sought-after draft pick. (Versatility.) The common theme around Neal was, if he flopped at T, he'd make an excellent G. (Similar to the Brandan Scherff and Robert Gallery reports.)
Given that, there is no shame in moving him to G. The key is getting quality play. And this is coming from someone who is OK letting him develop at RT, as he looks like he's improving, and he's playing within an OL/offense that is obviously poorly coached.
Bob, he skipped all his movement workouts so how would they really know? He had balance issues at T in college, as Sy pointed out. For the people questioning what evidence there was he'd be a good G .... do people realize he played G for a year at Alabama? He was good, and it was part of the reason he was such a sought-after draft pick. (Versatility.) The common theme around Neal was, if he flopped at T, he'd make an excellent G. (Similar to the Brandan Scherff and Robert Gallery reports.)
Given that, there is no shame in moving him to G. The key is getting quality play. And this is coming from someone who is OK letting him develop at RT, as he looks like he's improving, and he's playing within an OL/offense that is obviously poorly coached.
Scherff was prototype size for a guard at 6'4 1/2", 319. He ran a very good 40y at his combine (5.05). As noted above, Neal is a full three inches taller, not the prototype.
Gallery was 6'7" but, even more so than Scherff, a combine star, even superstar. His sub-5 40y (4.97) at his size was astounding, and he tested very well in the agility drills (3-cone and shuttle).
Gallery moved to guard in his fourth season and was just OK, not a roaring success.
Neal has shown nothing to indicate he has the movement ability of Scherff and Gallery. For all we know, if he had submitted himself to the 40y drill, he might have run a 5.5.
I still maintain hope he can develop into a tackle,but his versatility is a major plus as we continue to develop the OL
Quote:
Bob, he skipped all his movement workouts so how would they really know? He had balance issues at T in college, as Sy pointed out. For the people questioning what evidence there was he'd be a good G .... do people realize he played G for a year at Alabama? He was good, and it was part of the reason he was such a sought-after draft pick. (Versatility.) The common theme around Neal was, if he flopped at T, he'd make an excellent G. (Similar to the Brandan Scherff and Robert Gallery reports.)
Given that, there is no shame in moving him to G. The key is getting quality play. And this is coming from someone who is OK letting him develop at RT, as he looks like he's improving, and he's playing within an OL/offense that is obviously poorly coached.
Scherff was prototype size for a guard at 6'4 1/2", 319. He ran a very good 40y at his combine (5.05). As noted above, Neal is a full three inches taller, not the prototype.
Gallery was 6'7" but, even more so than Scherff, a combine star, even superstar. His sub-5 40y (4.97) at his size was astounding, and he tested very well in the agility drills (3-cone and shuttle).
Gallery moved to guard in his fourth season and was just OK, not a roaring success.
Neal has shown nothing to indicate he has the movement ability of Scherff and Gallery. For all we know, if he had submitted himself to the 40y drill, he might have run a 5.5.
I’m honestly not sure what your point is. Moving inside would minimize his weaknesses and maximize his strengths. That’s my opinion. I brought up Scherff in particular as a top 10 pick that was considered a T/G and found a home at G. Zack Martin is another example, although slightly outside the top 10. You think DAL cares he ended up at G?
I’m honestly not sure what your point is. Moving inside would minimize his weaknesses and maximize his strengths. That’s my opinion. I brought up Scherff in particular as a top 10 pick that was considered a T/G and found a home at G. Zack Martin is another example, although slightly outside the top 10. You think DAL cares he ended up at G?
If you're unclear why we disagree, I suggest reading my post upthread. Guards need to move their feet; they need to be agile; that's one reason guards are generally smaller than tackles.
The other reason guards run smaller than tackles is that high center of gravity is not an advantage in the interior OL.
Zack Martin is 6'4" 308, again prototype size for a guard. Neal doesn't remotely resemble that.