It hung up forever. An NFL GM is going to get fired taking Nix
agreed with all of this. Not sure anyone ever questions his arm strength or ability to make the throws. But its the decision to make that throw, which makes him a questionable nfl starting QB.
It hung up forever. An NFL GM is going to get fired taking Nix
He found an open space to place the ball on the opposite side of the field for a big play while scrambling. I’d say that is impressive awareness and a good play.
All QBs get an opportunity to fine tune their games
It's one of the unknowns when drafting a QB. How will he respond to the increased speed and athleticism. The greats figure it out. Maybe Bo Nix makes the adjustment.
ability he doesn't have what teams are looking for in a top pick. Doesn't have a big arm. He's not big. The offense he plays in is not an NFL type offense. He's barely ever even hit. And he's going to be 23 in February.
Someone will take him in the late first or early 2nd but he wont be in the discussion with the top guys
It hung up forever. An NFL GM is going to get fired taking Nix
agreed with all of this. Not sure anyone ever questions his arm strength or ability to make the throws. But its the decision to make that throw, which makes him a questionable nfl starting QB.
Could one argue the decision was based on how open the receiver was? And that he wouldn't have let it fly against an NFL defense where the receiver would've been less open?
Most fans don’t have a clue about QB evaluation. Everyone buys into the big arm at the big program. People forget that QB play is about the big picture and the ability to play to the situation.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Could see someone trading into the late 1st for the extra year on him but ultimately probably a second round pick.
I think some of the concerns listed are correct but to throw 37 TD’s to 2 int’s on a 78% completion percentage is very impressive.
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
I still like Penix but he needs a team with a stout OL. If you give him time he’s surgical.
Good year for QB’s, hopefully Schoen & Daboll have the ability to get their guy.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be. Link - ( New Window )
Rattler?
Take him off the radar. Substitute Cam Ward, Ewers, Beck.
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
Most fans don’t have a clue about QB evaluation. Everyone buys into the big arm at the big program. People forget that QB play is about the big picture and the ability to play to the situation.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Brock Purdy took whats called an “S2” Test which doesn’t measure intelligence but how quickly you process information. Its becoming increasingly popular. This year 800 prospects are taking it. He scored in the mid 90’s which apparently was comparable to Drew Brees. Very elite
There’s an article on The Athletic about it, I’m not subscribed though. I’m gonna keep an eye out for how these QB’s grade out on it, I hope that info will be readily available.
right in face and throws a perfect strike 15 yards down the field just now
That was very impressive.
He’s done it several times on this drive.
What boggles the mind is how many people repeat until they are blue in the face that Jones is not a good QB- but can’t put their finger on WHY. it is because he has no anticipation or understanding of the big picture. No matter how hard he works or says the right things, because he does not have those things, he can only achieve moderate success.
Nix has proven over and over that not only does he know where to go, but he knows the match-up and coverage. He also has that all-critical clock in his head and doesn’t panic when the rush is in his face- he just makes a decisive throw to where the receiver WILL be- not waiting for him to get open.
It should be obvious to everyone here that arm strength is an over-rated quality when the QB has a 10 cent understanding of what is happening around them. No amount of “work” or “preparation” will cure that flaw. A QB who knows where to go and where they mismatches are- and stays cool and calm, knowing what will happen, even with a pass rush coming will outplay that big-armed QB that fans love.
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
I haven’t been as active on here but I haven’t seen him mentioned with Maye and Williams. Even the media mostly mentions those 2 names right now. Local radio keeps talking as if missing out on either guy is essentially game over. I think by draft time he’ll be discussed top 5.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be. Link - ( New Window )
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
I haven’t been as active on here but I haven’t seen him mentioned with Maye and Williams. Even the media mostly mentions those 2 names right now. Local radio keeps talking as if missing out on either guy is essentially game over. I think by draft time he’ll be discussed top 5.
I think JD should be in the discussion as the top pick. He's the most dynamic player in the draft who just happens to play QB.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be. Link - ( New Window )
Good catch Acid. He’s a name to watch
I will say that I have NOT AT ALL been impressed with Penix. He might have the strongest arm in the draft- but his accuracy is WELL below average. He also does not have that “clock” in his head or a good understanding of what he is seeing on the field. In many ways, he reminds me of Jones.
With that said, I DO like Daniel’s quite a bit. However, he needs more development. With Daboll, he might be a good candidate to watch Jones for about half a season while doing a NFL weight program. The one concern I have is that he appears to be a one-read and run guy right now. He needs to have a MUCH better understanding of what he is seeing in front of him and be more decisive on where to go. On the other hand, that speed gets him out of some jams that other QB would fail in.
I think Penix is a late 1st/early 2nd round guy. Daniels is a first rounder- but I worry that he will go to a team that does not develop him and gets him pounded like Indy did with Richardson.
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
I haven’t been as active on here but I haven’t seen him mentioned with Maye and Williams. Even the media mostly mentions those 2 names right now. Local radio keeps talking as if missing out on either guy is essentially game over. I think by draft time he’ll be discussed top 5.
I would be thrilled to miss out on those two and yet land on Daniels.
I think I like McCarthy more than Nix as #4 on my list.
is a very good college QB with a ton of experience having tremendous last campaign.
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
Literally my write up as well and I have seen him a lot. Older prospect also. It feels like he has played for 10 years. Saying that I wouldn’t be opposed to getting into pick 30-32 to take a chance if the cost isn’t to much. He has talent.
I can see him dropping to the 3rd and 4th though.
RE: RE: I think I like McCarthy more than Nix as #4 on my list.
Daniels is moving up quickly. I think he is the guy I would be most excited to draft.
This I don’t get. But again, I’m no expert.
Tomorrow is going to be telling but if you watch McCarthy he progresses so well and keeps his eyes down field while scrambling. I am really high on McCarthy.
Most fans don’t have a clue about QB evaluation. Everyone buys into the big arm at the big program. People forget that QB play is about the big picture and the ability to play to the situation.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Good post. I agree with you that we have people here who post often and seem to have acquired the mantle of QB expert. They never show up on other threads. One such expert wants do whatever it takes to get that guy or draft 3 QBs this year.
Daniels is moving up quickly. I think he is the guy I would be most excited to draft.
I have no idea how anyone could compare McCarthy and nix and could think McCarthy comes out ahead.
Mind boggling….
Better arm. Better mobility. He’s only 20. More accurate downfield.
More to the game than just stats.
Also - rumor has it that McCarthy is playing on a sprained MCL. Hurt it during Penn state game which is why he hasn’t been used in the run game and they have been very conservative.
If he isn’t 100% today - they’ll get beat pretty easily cause OSU’s ends will terrorize Michigans tackles.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
A lot of Giants fans who want to take a QB this year seem to be against the prospect of Nix due to his lack of superior physical traits. I’ve seen some people call him the Daniel Jones of this QB class.
The Jones comparison is ridiculous since Nix is elite at processing and short/intermediate accuracy. I would feel 1000 percent confident with Daboll utilizing a system that maximizes Nix’s strengths and immediately provides a high floor of QB production. Is he a future top-5 guy? Maybe not, but a Purdy or Tua level standard of play can get you to contender level pretty fast if you build a good team.
Most fans don’t have a clue about QB evaluation. Everyone buys into the big arm at the big program. People forget that QB play is about the big picture and the ability to play to the situation.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Good post. I agree with you that we have people here who post often and seem to have acquired the mantle of QB expert. They never show up on other threads. One such expert wants do whatever it takes to get that guy or draft 3 QBs this year.
You guys get so upset with opinions
I never thought of Bo Nix as ELITE in any aspect of the QB position
And playing good defenses. Where Daniels turned into an elite college QB while going to the SEC. I don’t think there’s anything that Nix does at an elite level that is going to translate to elite at the NFL level. He gets happy feet when his first read is taken away. Also keep in mind he gets all his pre snap reads from the sideline. That’s not going to happen in the NFL. NFL teams aren’t going to be able to replicate everything that has made him a drastically different QB than the one we saw at Auburn.
is a very good college QB with a ton of experience having tremendous last campaign.
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
In answer to your question, because teams are desperate for QBs. There are not 32 quarterbacks you can reasonably expect to lead a team to a Super Bowl. At any given time there are between 5 and 20 depending who you ask. I lean towards 20, but still any guy who has even a small, but decent chance to be in that 20, is in the discussion for first round and "lottery" picks. There is no other position in football (in sports?) with this situation.
I don’t profess to know much about evaluating QBs, but I do know
As of the first week of November Sy had Nix and JJ as mid second round picks.
Schoen spends every Saturday looking at quarterbacks. He has made some decent picks but overall roster construction and players he has chosen for offensive line have not been good. sy - ( New Window )
As of the first week of November Sy had Nix and JJ as mid second round picks.
Schoen spends every Saturday looking at quarterbacks. He has made some decent picks but overall roster construction and players he has chosen for offensive line have not been good. sy - ( New Window )
is a very good college QB with a ton of experience having tremendous last campaign.
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
He's best a 3rd or 4th round pick. This is why so many QBs are over drafted. Kid's ceiling at best may be Kirk Cousins. I'll wait til day 3 for that
A Kirk Cousins level makes you a first round pick. Guy’s had a great career, borderline top 10 QB. Doesn’t make you a top 5 1st round pick, but it’s not chopped liver.
Does everything pretty well. Nothing great. Benefitted from ideal circumstances.
I definitely can see that. I think he just has vastly more experience than his opponents playing in a conference that doesn’t value defense with an offense centered around high percentage throws and run after the catch.
He's one of those guys, every time I watch him I'm impressed.
Kind of the opposite of Caleb Williams where I feel he underwhelms whenever I tune in. (Maybe I'm watching the wrong games.)
The Giants may be able to draft Harrison Jr. in the 1st, then trade back up for Nix and still end up with the best QB in the draft.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
He's one of those guys, every time I watch him I'm impressed.
Kind of the opposite of Caleb Williams where I feel he underwhelms whenever I tune in. (Maybe I'm watching the wrong games.)
The Giants may be able to draft Harrison Jr. in the 1st, then trade back up for Nix and still end up with the best QB in the draft.
I must be watching the same games. Williams scares me. I think I’d be more comfortable trading back for picks and getting Nix. Unpopular take I’m sure but I just get the feeling Williams is one of those extremely talented guys that can’t put it all together. Fully admit I haven’t looked at tape or done in-depth study. I think Nix can play. Highest upside I think is Maye, most immediate impact is Daniels. I just want someone who gives us hope. I trust Schoen and Daboll.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Better than Jones should not be the standard for a first round QB. We got a better performance than Jones from a UDFA. The 5th year option exists for a reason. A first round pick needs to be a player that you can see offering the option to if they reach expected ceiling. To me I don't see Nix as that level of player especially with what the Giants currently have at WR. Therefore I wouldn't spend a first on him.
Even if Nix is merely Jones’s equal, he’ll be $35 million cheaper. That’s an upgrade no matter how much the Jones crew insists on nitpicking every potential replacement.
Even if Nix is merely Jones’s equal, he’ll be $35 million cheaper. That’s an upgrade no matter how much the Jones crew insists on nitpicking every potential replacement.
Then get that later in the draft not with a first round pick
It's hard to forget he had three full years at Auburn where he struggled mightily. It could be that he developed... Seemingly overnight or could be that Oregon has a lot more offensive power playing against underwhelming defensive talent. It's hard to forget just how bad he was at Auburn. He seemed to panic and couldn't process what to do. Then had a bunch of turnovers. Maybe he's a lot better, but I wouldn't bet on it in the first round
It takes 5 years to evaluate what we have in Daniel Jones
It's hard to forget he had three full years at Auburn where he struggled mightily. It could be that he developed... Seemingly overnight or could be that Oregon has a lot more offensive power playing against underwhelming defensive talent. It's hard to forget just how bad he was at Auburn. He seemed to panic and couldn't process what to do. Then had a bunch of turnovers. Maybe he's a lot better, but I wouldn't bet on it in the first round
And the scheme. It’s way more QB friendly than what he ran at Auburn. Nix had a sub 60% completion percentage at Auburn, that’s a major red flag. For compassion, Daniels who struggled at ASU had completion percentages of 61 and 65 during his two full years there.
Even if Nix is merely Jones’s equal, he’ll be $35 million cheaper. That’s an upgrade no matter how much the Jones crew insists on nitpicking every potential replacement.
It’s not the money that’s the problem when you draft a QB that doesn’t pan out, it’s the time you invest in him.
It's hard to forget he had three full years at Auburn where he struggled mightily. It could be that he developed... Seemingly overnight or could be that Oregon has a lot more offensive power playing against underwhelming defensive talent. It's hard to forget just how bad he was at Auburn. He seemed to panic and couldn't process what to do. Then had a bunch of turnovers. Maybe he's a lot better, but I wouldn't bet on it in the first round
Plus, he was shouldering the weight of being a legacy as his dad played QB for Auburn. So, the expectations were enormous.
Give him credit for realizing he needed a change and taking advantage of the opportunity in Oregon. Whatever he did at Auburn is a distant memory. The light went on and he's a completely different player. So, he's earned his way into the draft.
My POV is lottery picks/first rounders should be prospects that have elite physical skills. Players with the most upside.
Nix doesn't fit that profile. But he could be decent value on day two or early day three. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I'd rather fail with elite physical skills than fail with average skills, like we've done with Jones.
It's hard to forget he had three full years at Auburn where he struggled mightily. It could be that he developed... Seemingly overnight or could be that Oregon has a lot more offensive power playing against underwhelming defensive talent. It's hard to forget just how bad he was at Auburn. He seemed to panic and couldn't process what to do. Then had a bunch of turnovers. Maybe he's a lot better, but I wouldn't bet on it in the first round
Plus, he was shouldering the weight of being a legacy as his dad played QB for Auburn. So, the expectations were enormous.
Give him credit for realizing he needed a change and taking advantage of the opportunity in Oregon. Whatever he did at Auburn is a distant memory. The light went on and he's a completely different player. So, he's earned his way into the draft.
My POV is lottery picks/first rounders should be prospects that have elite physical skills. Players with the most upside.
Nix doesn't fit that profile. But he could be decent value on day two or early day three. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I'd rather fail with elite physical skills than fail with average skills, like we've done with Jones.
Good points. If the Giants could end up with say, Keon Coleman and Bo Nix round 2 I would be very excited.
Ultimately I'm a believer in Daboll & Schoen's knowledge of QB play. Let them get whomever they want and go from there. I would strongly consider drafting a QB late as well, the room needs more talent. Maybe someone like Pratt from Tulane
RE: RE: RE: RE: To all the BBI experts a simple but
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Better than Jones should not be the standard for a first round QB. We got a better performance than Jones from a UDFA. The 5th year option exists for a reason. A first round pick needs to be a player that you can see offering the option to if they reach expected ceiling. To me I don't see Nix as that level of player especially with what the Giants currently have at WR. Therefore I wouldn't spend a first on him.
I never said I wanted the Giants to take him and I never said that him being better than Jones was a reason to take him. I also never said the Giants should take him in the first round. I was only pushing back on the idea that Nix “probably” won’t be any better than Jones. He’s proven to be better than Jones at every level so far so why wouldn’t he probably be better than Jones at the next level?
No offense, but you completely misrepresented my post and pushed back against things I never said
But putting any QB behind our o line is a disaster waiting to happen.
First priority has to be to fix the line. Doesn't mean we cannot draft a qb in the first round but the line must be fixed. We need to bring in some quality veteran o line players because most o line players drafted need time to develop.
Don't care which name you pick at QB, give him the same shit show support that was provided for Jones in 2023 and see what you get.
So you’re saying using one pick on the QB position completely neuters them from making any other changes, at all on the entire team? Wtf is wrong with some of you people? You can’t possibly believe that, so what’s your motive for spewing it? Let me guess…this is yet another completely toothless, indirect defense for a Daniel Jones tryout number 6?
Running it back with Daniel Jones for a sixth shot to prove he can play without having a plan B on the roster is MUCH closer to “insanity” than using one draft pick on the QB position.
If I knew I could pick up JJ or Nix in the 2nd rd, that would certainly adjust my thinking. Getting something like Harrison Jr, then Nix/JJ, would be an outstanding start to the draft
get overdrafred every year, more than any other position. Some that should be taken in the second and third rounds will go in the first simply because as others have said teams want the fifth year option.
My view is that if you like a QB, take him. Don't trade down and risk losing him, and don't worry if you take him a round or two before the "experts" say you should have.
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Better than Jones should not be the standard for a first round QB. We got a better performance than Jones from a UDFA. The 5th year option exists for a reason. A first round pick needs to be a player that you can see offering the option to if they reach expected ceiling. To me I don't see Nix as that level of player especially with what the Giants currently have at WR. Therefore I wouldn't spend a first on him.
I never said I wanted the Giants to take him and I never said that him being better than Jones was a reason to take him. I also never said the Giants should take him in the first round. I was only pushing back on the idea that Nix “probably” won’t be any better than Jones. He’s proven to be better than Jones at every level so far so why wouldn’t he probably be better than Jones at the next level?
No offense, but you completely misrepresented my post and pushed back against things I never said
I apologize as your post may have not been the best to respond to. I will say that there is a lot on his resume to suggest that he can’t be an upgrade. Among those are his frequent struggles in the SEC and the fact that his performance this year has been bolstered by an inordinately high number of passes behind LOS or going no further than 10 yards with receivers schemed to be able to make yards after the catch.
What I was pushing back against were those who want to draft any QB in Round 1 regardless of who that QB is. I am not denying that we need to land a QB, but that can be Day 2 if the Giants are drafting at a spot where they are not confident that any QB will be worth wanting to exercise the fifth year option on if they reach a realistic ceiling. I do strongly believe as I said here and in other posts that if you grade someone as a 1st round talent they need to have a path where you can say in 3 years that you will want to exercise that option.
It is one of my pet peeves but I have never understood why people feel the need to come on a site like this to tell us what they would do regarding this or that player. It would be like they would come on and declare that they think radiation is a better cancer treatment than chemo. We would ask were they doctors and they would say no but they watch lots of medical shows on TV. What anyone on this site would do in the end is simply useless information.
The only really useful information on this thread is that Schoen was at the Oregon game last night which tells us if nothing else that the Giants have a pretty good grade on Nix. NFL GMs don't travel across the country to see possible second rounders, especially when their own team is playing back on the other coast that week.I'm also really curious to know where Schoen is today. Did he stay om the west coast to see the Washington game or head east and maybe take in the LSU game.
It is one of my pet peeves but I have never understood why people feel the need to come on a site like this to tell us what they would do regarding this or that player. It would be like they would come on and declare that they think radiation is a better cancer treatment than chemo. We would ask were they doctors and they would say no but they watch lots of medical shows on TV. What anyone on this site would do in the end is simply useless information.
The only really useful information on this thread is that Schoen was at the Oregon game last night which tells us if nothing else that the Giants have a pretty good grade on Nix. NFL GMs don't travel across the country to see possible second rounders, especially when their own team is playing back on the other coast that week.I'm also really curious to know where Schoen is today. Did he stay om the west coast to see the Washington game or head east and maybe take in the LSU game.
From what has been written before, QB’s to the QB needy teams are the exception to the GM not scouting rule. Perhaps of the Nix games against quality teams it lined up the best for Schoen to catch this one.
Again, Daniels does not have a NFL arm. Nearly every scouting report says this.
Struggles to consistently operate from the pocket, particularly with throws across all field levels. Displays discomfort and inconsistency when required to make extended progressions.
Inconsistent throwing motion which hampers accuracy, timing, and power. Lacks proper lower body engagement, resulting in reduced throw power and accuracy, especially on sideline passes.
Despite ample experience, evident stagnation in his development. Faces issues connecting his throwing motion with his legs, leading to inconsistent ball placement and capped arm strength.
Physically, presents a concern due to his slender 185-pound frame on a 6’3” stature. Needs added bulk for NFL durability without compromising his agility and speed.
Deep ball accuracy leaves much to be desired. Exhibits multiple overthrows in deep third and occasional off-target shorter passes. Requires improvement in pocket trust, often evacuating prematurely instead of fully surveying the field.
Is either from before the season or hasn’t watched Daniels play this year. You don’t do what he did as a passer this year without one. You can just watch his touchdown throws today to see that.
He won’t be confused with Herbert when it comes to velocity, but it’s good enough (and velocity is overrated). His touch at every level is elite but the trait that he has that separates elite QBs from good and bad ones his is touch outside the numbers. The throws he makes from hash to hash wouldn’t be possible if he didn’t have an NFL arm.
Nix will be one of the most debated prospects in the class
Without showing my cards - and I still have some to do on him, here are 3 negatives and 3 positives that will determine everything
NEG
1) He almost never experiences repeated pressure in the pocket. He has been sacked 12 times since start of 2022. That will not happen in the league - and if he is drafted by the wrong team with a poor OL - who knows how he will respond. We have seen him against pressure at Auburn - it was ugly.
2) Defenses in the Pac 12 are just as bad as what we see in the Big 12. If anything - they are worse. Not as fast, not as big. Oregon's skill position guys are almost always head and shoulders above opponents. That will not be the case in the NFL.
3) The bad decision making we saw at Auburn still shows up at Oregon. Throws across field into traffic. Too many unnecessary risks.
POS
1) Ton of experience and he has changed how he plays (for the most part). Trusts system over his talent - which is a big deal. He can be coached - that matters.
2) Loves the game. Knows it well (son of a coach). Gets on his receivers when they make mistakes but he is loved by everyone in that program. A true leader that knows what it takes off the field to be a pro QB.
3) Underrated athlete. NYG fans - he is a better runner than Jones. Similar long speed but even better agility / quickness. He will create a ton with his legs.
Nix will be one of the most debated prospects in the class
Without showing my cards - and I still have some to do on him, here are 3 negatives and 3 positives that will determine everything
NEG
1) He almost never experiences repeated pressure in the pocket. He has been sacked 12 times since start of 2022. That will not happen in the league - and if he is drafted by the wrong team with a poor OL - who knows how he will respond. We have seen him against pressure at Auburn - it was ugly.
2) Defenses in the Pac 12 are just as bad as what we see in the Big 12. If anything - they are worse. Not as fast, not as big. Oregon's skill position guys are almost always head and shoulders above opponents. That will not be the case in the NFL.
3) The bad decision making we saw at Auburn still shows up at Oregon. Throws across field into traffic. Too many unnecessary risks.
POS
1) Ton of experience and he has changed how he plays (for the most part). Trusts system over his talent - which is a big deal. He can be coached - that matters.
2) Loves the game. Knows it well (son of a coach). Gets on his receivers when they make mistakes but he is loved by everyone in that program. A true leader that knows what it takes off the field to be a pro QB.
3) Underrated athlete. NYG fans - he is a better runner than Jones. Similar long speed but even better agility / quickness. He will create a ton with his legs.
Actually yes. McCarthy does have a stronger arm than Daniels. Do you watch college football?
Get paid to. Can ask the same question if you if you don’t think Daniels has a NFL arm. Velocity and an NFL arm are not the same thing. Ryan Mallet had a rifle, Ryan Mallet didn’t have an NFL arm.
Nix will be one of the most debated prospects in the class
Without showing my cards - and I still have some to do on him, here are 3 negatives and 3 positives that will determine everything
NEG
1) He almost never experiences repeated pressure in the pocket. He has been sacked 12 times since start of 2022. That will not happen in the league - and if he is drafted by the wrong team with a poor OL - who knows how he will respond. We have seen him against pressure at Auburn - it was ugly.
2) Defenses in the Pac 12 are just as bad as what we see in the Big 12. If anything - they are worse. Not as fast, not as big. Oregon's skill position guys are almost always head and shoulders above opponents. That will not be the case in the NFL.
3) The bad decision making we saw at Auburn still shows up at Oregon. Throws across field into traffic. Too many unnecessary risks.
POS
1) Ton of experience and he has changed how he plays (for the most part). Trusts system over his talent - which is a big deal. He can be coached - that matters.
2) Loves the game. Knows it well (son of a coach). Gets on his receivers when they make mistakes but he is loved by everyone in that program. A true leader that knows what it takes off the field to be a pro QB.
3) Underrated athlete. NYG fans - he is a better runner than Jones. Similar long speed but even better agility / quickness. He will create a ton with his legs.
Certainly as a prospect coming out of college Nix > Purdy.
But now that Purdy has an established level of excellent play in the NFL his college evaluation is irrelevant. Whether you think Purdy is top-8, top-12, top-15, he is now in a different class.
Admittedly I am not reading the previous comments....
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
Of course. Purdy was the last player taken in the draft. Nix will likely go in the first round, or high 2nd at the latest. That alone says Nix > Purdy as college prospect.
But would teams opt for Nix now or Purdy now. I think everything being equal, it's Purdy. For whatever that's worth.
Thanks. I know it is a matter of how he translates to the NFL. It will be a new horizon when he has a hand in his face every down.
I am done the Daniel Jones. Just find me somebody that can read a defense and get the ball out of his hand decisively. I think Williams, Maye and Daniels will be gone by the time the Giants draft. Not sure Nix is worth a 6-10 pick.
RE: RE: Not really sure why Purdy is brought up...
Admittedly I am not reading the previous comments....
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
Of course. Purdy was the last player taken in the draft. Nix will likely go in the first round, or high 2nd at the latest. That alone says Nix > Purdy as college prospect.
But would teams opt for Nix now or Purdy now. I think everything being equal, it's Purdy. For whatever that's worth.
Yes....
and everyone would have signed for Tom Brady (6th rounder) never every single QB prospect ever to come out after 2000.
Thanks. I know it is a matter of how he translates to the NFL. It will be a new horizon when he has a hand in his face every down.
I am done the Daniel Jones. Just find me somebody that can read a defense and get the ball out of his hand decisively. I think Williams, Maye and Daniels will be gone by the time the Giants draft. Not sure Nix is worth a 6-10 pick.
Does not have to be round 1.
Remember you have to fix this OL and you need a #1 WR.
Admittedly I am not reading the previous comments....
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
FWIW, I know Purdy is with some outstanding weapons at SF. But what I see is a guy with an accurate but middling strength arm that reads quickly gets the ball out quickly and decisively. If Nix is better than that, then he could be in play for the Giants. He may not be a 1st round grade but perhaps in play for the 2nd.
Thanks. I know it is a matter of how he translates to the NFL. It will be a new horizon when he has a hand in his face every down.
I am done the Daniel Jones. Just find me somebody that can read a defense and get the ball out of his hand decisively. I think Williams, Maye and Daniels will be gone by the time the Giants draft. Not sure Nix is worth a 6-10 pick.
Does not have to be round 1.
Remember you have to fix this OL and you need a #1 WR.
I absolutely agree. They need a better oline coach. I just have not seen any improvement in any lineman in two years with Johnson. They need IOL improvements. Yes they need a #1 WR, but can live with what they have right now.
They also need someonce opposite KT and Deontae Banks...(damn that is a lot.)
I have no idea where Ryan found his scouting report on Daniels or how old that nonsense is but here’s a much more recent report. Like..yesterday recent.
Except the quote he left out from that scouting report:
Quote:
Impressive arm strength allowing him to target all three levels of the field with ease. Demonstrates quick release, especially on short and intermediate throws.
Here’s a Daniels clip from high school casually tossing it 50 yards
I have no idea where Ryan found his scouting report on Daniels or how old that nonsense is but here’s a much more recent report. Like..yesterday recent.
“Absolute laser” is used to describe his arm… Jayden Daniels Scouting Report - ( New Window )
He has a very good arm. But I think his best attribute is his release.
It's hard to forget he had three full years at Auburn where he struggled mightily. It could be that he developed... Seemingly overnight or could be that Oregon has a lot more offensive power playing against underwhelming defensive talent. It's hard to forget just how bad he was at Auburn. He seemed to panic and couldn't process what to do. Then had a bunch of turnovers. Maybe he's a lot better, but I wouldn't bet on it in the first round
Quote:
As a true freshman, Nix was named the starting quarterback for Auburn's 2019 season opener against Oregon.[3] He led Auburn to a 27–21 come-back win against the Oregon Ducks at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas, on August 31, 2019.[4]
Nix led Auburn to a 9–4 record in his freshman season, winning the Iron Bowl, 48–45 over Alabama.[5] He was voted the SEC's 2019 Freshman of the Year,[6] finishing the campaign with 16 touchdowns and 6 interceptions.
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
You came on here like a dick with a “do you even watch college football” and then tried to use a scouting report to prove you were right while leaving out the part of the scouting report that said he had a strong arm. Why?
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
He was a freshman 4 fucking years ago - it's entirely possible he's not the same QB now. Just sayin'....
RE: RE: RE: McCarthy has an NFL arm but Daniels doesn’t?
Actually yes. McCarthy does have a stronger arm than Daniels. Do you watch college football?
Get paid to. Can ask the same question if you if you don’t think Daniels has a NFL arm. Velocity and an NFL arm are not the same thing. Ryan Mallet had a rifle, Ryan Mallet didn’t have an NFL arm.
Can you describe what an NFL Arm is? I am asking seriously because I associate the term ‘nfl arm’ with arm strength. My guess is that the term NFL arm is also talking about touch and accuracy.
had a lot of issues as a program. Nix had a promising freshman year and regressed in year 2 but so did the team. That was Malzahn's last season. New HC and there was a big team revolt with about 20 players leaving including Nix. That HC was gone by midseason in his second season as HC. So it is not like Nix was in a ideal situation and that is also probably in the toughest division in college football.
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
He was a freshman 4 fucking years ago - it's entirely possible he's not the same QB now. Just sayin'....
He was just as bad his sophomore and junior years.
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
He was a freshman 4 fucking years ago - it's entirely possible he's not the same QB now. Just sayin'....
He was just as bad his sophomore and junior years.
agreed with all of this. Not sure anyone ever questions his arm strength or ability to make the throws. But its the decision to make that throw, which makes him a questionable nfl starting QB.
He strikes me as Sam Howell with better teammates. I’m not remotely interested.
It's one of the unknowns when drafting a QB. How will he respond to the increased speed and athleticism. The greats figure it out. Maybe Bo Nix makes the adjustment.
Someone will take him in the late first or early 2nd but he wont be in the discussion with the top guys
Quote:
It hung up forever. An NFL GM is going to get fired taking Nix
agreed with all of this. Not sure anyone ever questions his arm strength or ability to make the throws. But its the decision to make that throw, which makes him a questionable nfl starting QB.
Could one argue the decision was based on how open the receiver was? And that he wouldn't have let it fly against an NFL defense where the receiver would've been less open?
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^
Shouldn’t be considered for us.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be.
Link - ( New Window )
I think some of the concerns listed are correct but to throw 37 TD’s to 2 int’s on a 78% completion percentage is very impressive.
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
I still like Penix but he needs a team with a stout OL. If you give him time he’s surgical.
Good year for QB’s, hopefully Schoen & Daboll have the ability to get their guy.
That was very impressive.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be. Link - ( New Window )
Rattler?
Take him off the radar. Substitute Cam Ward, Ewers, Beck.
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Brock Purdy took whats called an “S2” Test which doesn’t measure intelligence but how quickly you process information. Its becoming increasingly popular. This year 800 prospects are taking it. He scored in the mid 90’s which apparently was comparable to Drew Brees. Very elite
There’s an article on The Athletic about it, I’m not subscribed though. I’m gonna keep an eye out for how these QB’s grade out on it, I hope that info will be readily available.
Quote:
right in face and throws a perfect strike 15 yards down the field just now
That was very impressive.
He’s done it several times on this drive.
What boggles the mind is how many people repeat until they are blue in the face that Jones is not a good QB- but can’t put their finger on WHY. it is because he has no anticipation or understanding of the big picture. No matter how hard he works or says the right things, because he does not have those things, he can only achieve moderate success.
Nix has proven over and over that not only does he know where to go, but he knows the match-up and coverage. He also has that all-critical clock in his head and doesn’t panic when the rush is in his face- he just makes a decisive throw to where the receiver WILL be- not waiting for him to get open.
It should be obvious to everyone here that arm strength is an over-rated quality when the QB has a 10 cent understanding of what is happening around them. No amount of “work” or “preparation” will cure that flaw. A QB who knows where to go and where they mismatches are- and stays cool and calm, knowing what will happen, even with a pass rush coming will outplay that big-armed QB that fans love.
Quote:
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
I haven’t been as active on here but I haven’t seen him mentioned with Maye and Williams. Even the media mostly mentions those 2 names right now. Local radio keeps talking as if missing out on either guy is essentially game over. I think by draft time he’ll be discussed top 5.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be. Link - ( New Window )
Good catch Acid. He’s a name to watch
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
I haven’t been as active on here but I haven’t seen him mentioned with Maye and Williams. Even the media mostly mentions those 2 names right now. Local radio keeps talking as if missing out on either guy is essentially game over. I think by draft time he’ll be discussed top 5.
I think JD should be in the discussion as the top pick. He's the most dynamic player in the draft who just happens to play QB.
Quote:
Giants have scouts at the game.
If the Giants win a few more games, Williams, Maye, and Daniels will likely not be available. Nix, Penix, McCarthy, and Rattler will be. Link - ( New Window )
Good catch Acid. He’s a name to watch
I will say that I have NOT AT ALL been impressed with Penix. He might have the strongest arm in the draft- but his accuracy is WELL below average. He also does not have that “clock” in his head or a good understanding of what he is seeing on the field. In many ways, he reminds me of Jones.
With that said, I DO like Daniel’s quite a bit. However, he needs more development. With Daboll, he might be a good candidate to watch Jones for about half a season while doing a NFL weight program. The one concern I have is that he appears to be a one-read and run guy right now. He needs to have a MUCH better understanding of what he is seeing in front of him and be more decisive on where to go. On the other hand, that speed gets him out of some jams that other QB would fail in.
I think Penix is a late 1st/early 2nd round guy. Daniels is a first rounder- but I worry that he will go to a team that does not develop him and gets him pounded like Indy did with Richardson.
Quote:
In comment 16300453 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Jayden Daniels is the guy who is in tier 1 but hasn’t been discussed enough. He’ll go top 10, probably right where the Giants pick. I think he can be every bit as good as Williams & Maye. My understanding is he already makes full field progressions in Brian Kelly’s offense.
Daniels has been discussed extensively here for the last six weeks.
I haven’t been as active on here but I haven’t seen him mentioned with Maye and Williams. Even the media mostly mentions those 2 names right now. Local radio keeps talking as if missing out on either guy is essentially game over. I think by draft time he’ll be discussed top 5.
This I don’t get. But again, I’m no expert.
I have no idea how anyone could compare McCarthy and nix and could think McCarthy comes out ahead.
Mind boggling….
Quote:
Daniels is moving up quickly. I think he is the guy I would be most excited to draft.
This I don’t get. But again, I’m no expert.
In regards to McCarthy
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
Literally my write up as well and I have seen him a lot. Older prospect also. It feels like he has played for 10 years. Saying that I wouldn’t be opposed to getting into pick 30-32 to take a chance if the cost isn’t to much. He has talent.
I can see him dropping to the 3rd and 4th though.
Quote:
Daniels is moving up quickly. I think he is the guy I would be most excited to draft.
This I don’t get. But again, I’m no expert.
Tomorrow is going to be telling but if you watch McCarthy he progresses so well and keeps his eyes down field while scrambling. I am really high on McCarthy.
To my eye there are three exceptional qualities in this QB class: Daniels's mobility, Williams's off schedule talent, and Penix's accuracy.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Good post. I agree with you that we have people here who post often and seem to have acquired the mantle of QB expert. They never show up on other threads. One such expert wants do whatever it takes to get that guy or draft 3 QBs this year.
@JamesCrepea
Bears GM Ryan Poles and Giants GM Joe Schoen are credentialed to be at Autzen Stadium
To my eye there are three exceptional qualities in this QB class: Daniels's mobility, Williams's off schedule talent, and Penix's accuracy.
Ahh yes- you never fail to show your true metric when it comes to QB's..
Quote:
Daniels is moving up quickly. I think he is the guy I would be most excited to draft.
I have no idea how anyone could compare McCarthy and nix and could think McCarthy comes out ahead.
Mind boggling….
Better arm. Better mobility. He’s only 20. More accurate downfield.
More to the game than just stats.
Also - rumor has it that McCarthy is playing on a sprained MCL. Hurt it during Penn state game which is why he hasn’t been used in the run game and they have been very conservative.
If he isn’t 100% today - they’ll get beat pretty easily cause OSU’s ends will terrorize Michigans tackles.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
The Jones comparison is ridiculous since Nix is elite at processing and short/intermediate accuracy. I would feel 1000 percent confident with Daboll utilizing a system that maximizes Nix’s strengths and immediately provides a high floor of QB production. Is he a future top-5 guy? Maybe not, but a Purdy or Tua level standard of play can get you to contender level pretty fast if you build a good team.
Quote:
Most fans don’t have a clue about QB evaluation. Everyone buys into the big arm at the big program. People forget that QB play is about the big picture and the ability to play to the situation.
Nix has all the arm needed to play in the NFL. Even though he hasn’t been subjected to pressures, he shows he has a clock in his head and when to get rid of the ball. He doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait for the rush to get him- he gets out and gets rid of the ball. He is decisive with his throws- and anticipates the coverage better than some of his receivers.
Just in tonight’s game, he has had several perfect throws in tight coverage. He makes rapid decisions based on the matchup. That throw that many are trying to use against him was actually a master class in understanding the matchup- he had a much bigger WR who could outmuscle the DB- and threw the ball to allow him to high point it. The throw is not dissimilar to those Hurts makes for AJ Brown.
People get so hung up on what they THINK they know that they lose sight of when a QB is showing them HOW to play the position. Brock Purdy is making a LOT of teams look silly for overlooking how well he understood the position just because he doesn’t have a big arm or the prototypical measurements. Nix will do the same.
Good post. I agree with you that we have people here who post often and seem to have acquired the mantle of QB expert. They never show up on other threads. One such expert wants do whatever it takes to get that guy or draft 3 QBs this year.
You guys get so upset with opinions
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
In answer to your question, because teams are desperate for QBs. There are not 32 quarterbacks you can reasonably expect to lead a team to a Super Bowl. At any given time there are between 5 and 20 depending who you ask. I lean towards 20, but still any guy who has even a small, but decent chance to be in that 20, is in the discussion for first round and "lottery" picks. There is no other position in football (in sports?) with this situation.
Quote:
I haven't seen a colossal difference between him and Maye.
To my eye there are three exceptional qualities in this QB class: Daniels's mobility, Williams's off schedule talent, and Penix's accuracy.
Ahh yes- you never fail to show your true metric when it comes to QB's..
Malik Willis hasn't had his shot yet. ;)
Schoen spends every Saturday looking at quarterbacks. He has made some decent picks but overall roster construction and players he has chosen for offensive line have not been good.
sy - ( New Window )
This seems accurate.
Schoen spends every Saturday looking at quarterbacks. He has made some decent picks but overall roster construction and players he has chosen for offensive line have not been good. sy - ( New Window )
Schoen has been GM for less than two years.
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
He's best a 3rd or 4th round pick. This is why so many QBs are over drafted. Kid's ceiling at best may be Kirk Cousins. I'll wait til day 3 for that
Quote:
is a very good college QB with a ton of experience having tremendous last campaign.
Decent size, decent arm, good athleticism, good mobility.
Why do those attributes sound like a lottery pick or even first round material?
I wouldn't touch this guy until maybe day two. And that may be stretch.
He's best a 3rd or 4th round pick. This is why so many QBs are over drafted. Kid's ceiling at best may be Kirk Cousins. I'll wait til day 3 for that
A Kirk Cousins level makes you a first round pick. Guy’s had a great career, borderline top 10 QB. Doesn’t make you a top 5 1st round pick, but it’s not chopped liver.
I definitely can see that. I think he just has vastly more experience than his opponents playing in a conference that doesn’t value defense with an offense centered around high percentage throws and run after the catch.
Kind of the opposite of Caleb Williams where I feel he underwhelms whenever I tune in. (Maybe I'm watching the wrong games.)
The Giants may be able to draft Harrison Jr. in the 1st, then trade back up for Nix and still end up with the best QB in the draft.
I agree but I see it a situation where a team may have a 2nd round grade on him but move up into the late 1st to get that 5th year option.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
Quote:
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
Paying a mediocre QB 40m is QB idiocy.
Quote:
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Quote:
are 2-3 round picks for me.
This seems accurate.
Yes, generally agree as well.
Nix and Penix on Day 2. JJ probably an early Day 3 pick.
Kind of the opposite of Caleb Williams where I feel he underwhelms whenever I tune in. (Maybe I'm watching the wrong games.)
The Giants may be able to draft Harrison Jr. in the 1st, then trade back up for Nix and still end up with the best QB in the draft.
I must be watching the same games. Williams scares me. I think I’d be more comfortable trading back for picks and getting Nix. Unpopular take I’m sure but I just get the feeling Williams is one of those extremely talented guys that can’t put it all together. Fully admit I haven’t looked at tape or done in-depth study. I think Nix can play. Highest upside I think is Maye, most immediate impact is Daniels. I just want someone who gives us hope. I trust Schoen and Daboll.
Quote:
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
☝️
Quote:
James Crepea
@JamesCrepea
Bears GM Ryan Poles and Giants GM Joe Schoen are credentialed to be at Autzen Stadium
I’ve heard his name recently, the Giants like Nix. Where and when is the question.
You have no interest in Jayden Daniels?
Quote:
In comment 16300499 section125 said:
Quote:
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Better than Jones should not be the standard for a first round QB. We got a better performance than Jones from a UDFA. The 5th year option exists for a reason. A first round pick needs to be a player that you can see offering the option to if they reach expected ceiling. To me I don't see Nix as that level of player especially with what the Giants currently have at WR. Therefore I wouldn't spend a first on him.
Even if Nix is merely Jones’s equal, he’ll be $35 million cheaper. That’s an upgrade no matter how much the Jones crew insists on nitpicking every potential replacement.
Quote:
No interest in Nix. Maye or Williams and that’s about it for me.
You have no interest in Jayden Daniels?
No
Quote:
In comment 16300607 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
No interest in Nix. Maye or Williams and that’s about it for me.
You have no interest in Jayden Daniels?
No
Why?
Quote:
Than Jones, but the bar is low.
Even if Nix is merely Jones’s equal, he’ll be $35 million cheaper. That’s an upgrade no matter how much the Jones crew insists on nitpicking every potential replacement.
Then get that later in the draft not with a first round pick
And the scheme. It’s way more QB friendly than what he ran at Auburn. Nix had a sub 60% completion percentage at Auburn, that’s a major red flag. For compassion, Daniels who struggled at ASU had completion percentages of 61 and 65 during his two full years there.
Quote:
Than Jones, but the bar is low.
Even if Nix is merely Jones’s equal, he’ll be $35 million cheaper. That’s an upgrade no matter how much the Jones crew insists on nitpicking every potential replacement.
It’s not the money that’s the problem when you draft a QB that doesn’t pan out, it’s the time you invest in him.
Quote:
In comment 16300607 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
No interest in Nix. Maye or Williams and that’s about it for me.
You have no interest in Jayden Daniels?
No
Daniels is good at everything you think Jones is good at.
Plus, he was shouldering the weight of being a legacy as his dad played QB for Auburn. So, the expectations were enormous.
Give him credit for realizing he needed a change and taking advantage of the opportunity in Oregon. Whatever he did at Auburn is a distant memory. The light went on and he's a completely different player. So, he's earned his way into the draft.
My POV is lottery picks/first rounders should be prospects that have elite physical skills. Players with the most upside.
Nix doesn't fit that profile. But he could be decent value on day two or early day three. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I'd rather fail with elite physical skills than fail with average skills, like we've done with Jones.
Quote:
It's hard to forget he had three full years at Auburn where he struggled mightily. It could be that he developed... Seemingly overnight or could be that Oregon has a lot more offensive power playing against underwhelming defensive talent. It's hard to forget just how bad he was at Auburn. He seemed to panic and couldn't process what to do. Then had a bunch of turnovers. Maybe he's a lot better, but I wouldn't bet on it in the first round
Plus, he was shouldering the weight of being a legacy as his dad played QB for Auburn. So, the expectations were enormous.
Give him credit for realizing he needed a change and taking advantage of the opportunity in Oregon. Whatever he did at Auburn is a distant memory. The light went on and he's a completely different player. So, he's earned his way into the draft.
My POV is lottery picks/first rounders should be prospects that have elite physical skills. Players with the most upside.
Nix doesn't fit that profile. But he could be decent value on day two or early day three. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I'd rather fail with elite physical skills than fail with average skills, like we've done with Jones.
Good points. If the Giants could end up with say, Keon Coleman and Bo Nix round 2 I would be very excited.
Ultimately I'm a believer in Daboll & Schoen's knowledge of QB play. Let them get whomever they want and go from there. I would strongly consider drafting a QB late as well, the room needs more talent. Maybe someone like Pratt from Tulane
Quote:
In comment 16300581 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 16300499 section125 said:
Quote:
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Better than Jones should not be the standard for a first round QB. We got a better performance than Jones from a UDFA. The 5th year option exists for a reason. A first round pick needs to be a player that you can see offering the option to if they reach expected ceiling. To me I don't see Nix as that level of player especially with what the Giants currently have at WR. Therefore I wouldn't spend a first on him.
I never said I wanted the Giants to take him and I never said that him being better than Jones was a reason to take him. I also never said the Giants should take him in the first round. I was only pushing back on the idea that Nix “probably” won’t be any better than Jones. He’s proven to be better than Jones at every level so far so why wouldn’t he probably be better than Jones at the next level?
No offense, but you completely misrepresented my post and pushed back against things I never said
First priority has to be to fix the line. Doesn't mean we cannot draft a qb in the first round but the line must be fixed. We need to bring in some quality veteran o line players because most o line players drafted need time to develop.
So you’re saying using one pick on the QB position completely neuters them from making any other changes, at all on the entire team? Wtf is wrong with some of you people? You can’t possibly believe that, so what’s your motive for spewing it? Let me guess…this is yet another completely toothless, indirect defense for a Daniel Jones tryout number 6?
Don’t answer that, I already know the answer.
To my eye there are three exceptional qualities in this QB class: Daniels's mobility, Williams's off schedule talent, and Penix's accuracy.
+1 - I see the similarities between Nix and Maye.
I would be OK with any of them although each has his warts that they will need to work on. My choice is Daniels.
Daniels = size (weight)
Williams = size (height)/psyche (handle NY press/fans)
Penix = injuries
Nix = system guy
If I knew I could pick up JJ or Nix in the 2nd rd, that would certainly adjust my thinking. Getting something like Harrison Jr, then Nix/JJ, would be an outstanding start to the draft
It’s not weak. It’s above average at worst
My view is that if you like a QB, take him. Don't trade down and risk losing him, and don't worry if you take him a round or two before the "experts" say you should have.
Did you write that with a straight face?
Quote:
In comment 16300595 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16300581 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 16300499 section125 said:
Quote:
complex question.
We know that Brock Purdy was the last player drafted. But now he looks like he should have gone much higher. If Bo Nix had come out last year would he have been drafted ahead of Purdy?
I am now absolutely certain that processing speed is far more important than arm strength. Watching Purdy carve up defenses with his middling arm strength(not saying he is a noodle arm at all) is impressive.
IMV, that he is 23 y/o is unimportant - 24 at draft. If he plays 12 years that gets him to 36. 12 years is a lot of NFL time for anyone.
Age matters. You're a 23 year old man playing at times against people less physically and mentally advanced. Coviid allowed these kids about 2 extra years.
Nix played a ton at Auburn. This thread is full of people who hate jones and will do mental gymnastics to pick a guy who probably won't be any better. QB idiocy. But then again FL GMs do it too. How many of you genius GMs wanted Darnold Rosen. Etc.
I’m not a fan of Nix and am also very skeptical but this take is just lazy. It doesn’t take “mental gymnastics” to think Nix would be an upgrade over Jones. It actually wouldn’t be very difficult to do that. The bar is low. But that aside, Nix has been stratospheres better than Jones at both the high school and college levels. Nix was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and rated the number 1 dual threat QB in the class. He was incredibly highly recruited. Jones had to walk on at Duke as a 0 star recruit. And twist yourself into pretzels trying to find excuses all you want, Nix has been infinitely more productive at the college level than Jones was ever was.
Nix may end up a backup in the NFL, who knows. But to suggest that he “probably won’t be any better than Jones” is incredibly disingenuous. That opinion is based on absolutely nothing and should not discourage the Giants from taking him if he gets to a spot in the draft they are comfortable taking him. There’s nothing on his resume that suggest he can’t be an upgrade at the position other than fear from other QB failures in the past. But we already have one of those so no sense being afraid to take a shot. The record certainly won’t get much worse because there’s not very much further to fall…
Better than Jones should not be the standard for a first round QB. We got a better performance than Jones from a UDFA. The 5th year option exists for a reason. A first round pick needs to be a player that you can see offering the option to if they reach expected ceiling. To me I don't see Nix as that level of player especially with what the Giants currently have at WR. Therefore I wouldn't spend a first on him.
I never said I wanted the Giants to take him and I never said that him being better than Jones was a reason to take him. I also never said the Giants should take him in the first round. I was only pushing back on the idea that Nix “probably” won’t be any better than Jones. He’s proven to be better than Jones at every level so far so why wouldn’t he probably be better than Jones at the next level?
No offense, but you completely misrepresented my post and pushed back against things I never said
I apologize as your post may have not been the best to respond to. I will say that there is a lot on his resume to suggest that he can’t be an upgrade. Among those are his frequent struggles in the SEC and the fact that his performance this year has been bolstered by an inordinately high number of passes behind LOS or going no further than 10 yards with receivers schemed to be able to make yards after the catch.
What I was pushing back against were those who want to draft any QB in Round 1 regardless of who that QB is. I am not denying that we need to land a QB, but that can be Day 2 if the Giants are drafting at a spot where they are not confident that any QB will be worth wanting to exercise the fifth year option on if they reach a realistic ceiling. I do strongly believe as I said here and in other posts that if you grade someone as a 1st round talent they need to have a path where you can say in 3 years that you will want to exercise that option.
The only really useful information on this thread is that Schoen was at the Oregon game last night which tells us if nothing else that the Giants have a pretty good grade on Nix. NFL GMs don't travel across the country to see possible second rounders, especially when their own team is playing back on the other coast that week.I'm also really curious to know where Schoen is today. Did he stay om the west coast to see the Washington game or head east and maybe take in the LSU game.
The only really useful information on this thread is that Schoen was at the Oregon game last night which tells us if nothing else that the Giants have a pretty good grade on Nix. NFL GMs don't travel across the country to see possible second rounders, especially when their own team is playing back on the other coast that week.I'm also really curious to know where Schoen is today. Did he stay om the west coast to see the Washington game or head east and maybe take in the LSU game.
From what has been written before, QB’s to the QB needy teams are the exception to the GM not scouting rule. Perhaps of the Nix games against quality teams it lined up the best for Schoen to catch this one.
Struggles to consistently operate from the pocket, particularly with throws across all field levels. Displays discomfort and inconsistency when required to make extended progressions.
Inconsistent throwing motion which hampers accuracy, timing, and power. Lacks proper lower body engagement, resulting in reduced throw power and accuracy, especially on sideline passes.
Despite ample experience, evident stagnation in his development. Faces issues connecting his throwing motion with his legs, leading to inconsistent ball placement and capped arm strength.
Physically, presents a concern due to his slender 185-pound frame on a 6’3” stature. Needs added bulk for NFL durability without compromising his agility and speed.
Deep ball accuracy leaves much to be desired. Exhibits multiple overthrows in deep third and occasional off-target shorter passes. Requires improvement in pocket trust, often evacuating prematurely instead of fully surveying the field.
But the difference between him and Maye/Williams at the NFL level is not close IMO.
I’d take McCarthy in 2nd/3rd round over Daniels early.
He won’t be confused with Herbert when it comes to velocity, but it’s good enough (and velocity is overrated). His touch at every level is elite but the trait that he has that separates elite QBs from good and bad ones his is touch outside the numbers. The throws he makes from hash to hash wouldn’t be possible if he didn’t have an NFL arm.
Without showing my cards - and I still have some to do on him, here are 3 negatives and 3 positives that will determine everything
NEG
1) He almost never experiences repeated pressure in the pocket. He has been sacked 12 times since start of 2022. That will not happen in the league - and if he is drafted by the wrong team with a poor OL - who knows how he will respond. We have seen him against pressure at Auburn - it was ugly.
2) Defenses in the Pac 12 are just as bad as what we see in the Big 12. If anything - they are worse. Not as fast, not as big. Oregon's skill position guys are almost always head and shoulders above opponents. That will not be the case in the NFL.
3) The bad decision making we saw at Auburn still shows up at Oregon. Throws across field into traffic. Too many unnecessary risks.
POS
1) Ton of experience and he has changed how he plays (for the most part). Trusts system over his talent - which is a big deal. He can be coached - that matters.
2) Loves the game. Knows it well (son of a coach). Gets on his receivers when they make mistakes but he is loved by everyone in that program. A true leader that knows what it takes off the field to be a pro QB.
3) Underrated athlete. NYG fans - he is a better runner than Jones. Similar long speed but even better agility / quickness. He will create a ton with his legs.
Giants take Nix in mock - ( New Window )
Without showing my cards - and I still have some to do on him, here are 3 negatives and 3 positives that will determine everything
NEG
1) He almost never experiences repeated pressure in the pocket. He has been sacked 12 times since start of 2022. That will not happen in the league - and if he is drafted by the wrong team with a poor OL - who knows how he will respond. We have seen him against pressure at Auburn - it was ugly.
2) Defenses in the Pac 12 are just as bad as what we see in the Big 12. If anything - they are worse. Not as fast, not as big. Oregon's skill position guys are almost always head and shoulders above opponents. That will not be the case in the NFL.
3) The bad decision making we saw at Auburn still shows up at Oregon. Throws across field into traffic. Too many unnecessary risks.
POS
1) Ton of experience and he has changed how he plays (for the most part). Trusts system over his talent - which is a big deal. He can be coached - that matters.
2) Loves the game. Knows it well (son of a coach). Gets on his receivers when they make mistakes but he is loved by everyone in that program. A true leader that knows what it takes off the field to be a pro QB.
3) Underrated athlete. NYG fans - he is a better runner than Jones. Similar long speed but even better agility / quickness. He will create a ton with his legs.
Sy, is he better than Brock Purdy?
Actually yes. McCarthy does have a stronger arm than Daniels. Do you watch college football?
Quote:
lol ok.
Actually yes. McCarthy does have a stronger arm than Daniels. Do you watch college football?
Could give a shit about marginally better arm strength. Who reads the defense faster and better?
Quote:
lol ok.
Actually yes. McCarthy does have a stronger arm than Daniels. Do you watch college football?
Get paid to. Can ask the same question if you if you don’t think Daniels has a NFL arm. Velocity and an NFL arm are not the same thing. Ryan Mallet had a rifle, Ryan Mallet didn’t have an NFL arm.
Quote:
Nix will be one of the most debated prospects in the class
Without showing my cards - and I still have some to do on him, here are 3 negatives and 3 positives that will determine everything
NEG
1) He almost never experiences repeated pressure in the pocket. He has been sacked 12 times since start of 2022. That will not happen in the league - and if he is drafted by the wrong team with a poor OL - who knows how he will respond. We have seen him against pressure at Auburn - it was ugly.
2) Defenses in the Pac 12 are just as bad as what we see in the Big 12. If anything - they are worse. Not as fast, not as big. Oregon's skill position guys are almost always head and shoulders above opponents. That will not be the case in the NFL.
3) The bad decision making we saw at Auburn still shows up at Oregon. Throws across field into traffic. Too many unnecessary risks.
POS
1) Ton of experience and he has changed how he plays (for the most part). Trusts system over his talent - which is a big deal. He can be coached - that matters.
2) Loves the game. Knows it well (son of a coach). Gets on his receivers when they make mistakes but he is loved by everyone in that program. A true leader that knows what it takes off the field to be a pro QB.
3) Underrated athlete. NYG fans - he is a better runner than Jones. Similar long speed but even better agility / quickness. He will create a ton with his legs.
Sy, is he better than Brock Purdy?
As a prospect?
Sure thing.
Sy, is he better than Brock Purdy?
As a prospect?
Sure thing.
Certainly as a prospect coming out of college Nix > Purdy.
But now that Purdy has an established level of excellent play in the NFL his college evaluation is irrelevant. Whether you think Purdy is top-8, top-12, top-15, he is now in a different class.
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
Of course. Purdy was the last player taken in the draft. Nix will likely go in the first round, or high 2nd at the latest. That alone says Nix > Purdy as college prospect.
But would teams opt for Nix now or Purdy now. I think everything being equal, it's Purdy. For whatever that's worth.
Sy, is he better than Brock Purdy?
As a prospect?
Sure thing.
Thanks. I know it is a matter of how he translates to the NFL. It will be a new horizon when he has a hand in his face every down.
I am done the Daniel Jones. Just find me somebody that can read a defense and get the ball out of his hand decisively. I think Williams, Maye and Daniels will be gone by the time the Giants draft. Not sure Nix is worth a 6-10 pick.
Quote:
Admittedly I am not reading the previous comments....
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
Of course. Purdy was the last player taken in the draft. Nix will likely go in the first round, or high 2nd at the latest. That alone says Nix > Purdy as college prospect.
But would teams opt for Nix now or Purdy now. I think everything being equal, it's Purdy. For whatever that's worth.
Yes....
and everyone would have signed for Tom Brady (6th rounder) never every single QB prospect ever to come out after 2000.
Quote:
Sy, is he better than Brock Purdy?
As a prospect?
Sure thing.
Thanks. I know it is a matter of how he translates to the NFL. It will be a new horizon when he has a hand in his face every down.
I am done the Daniel Jones. Just find me somebody that can read a defense and get the ball out of his hand decisively. I think Williams, Maye and Daniels will be gone by the time the Giants draft. Not sure Nix is worth a 6-10 pick.
Does not have to be round 1.
Remember you have to fix this OL and you need a #1 WR.
But yes -my grade on Nix will be higher than it was on Purdy coming out of college - anyone that says otherwise is a liar.
FWIW, I know Purdy is with some outstanding weapons at SF. But what I see is a guy with an accurate but middling strength arm that reads quickly gets the ball out quickly and decisively. If Nix is better than that, then he could be in play for the Giants. He may not be a 1st round grade but perhaps in play for the 2nd.
Quote:
In comment 16301049 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Sy, is he better than Brock Purdy?
As a prospect?
Sure thing.
Thanks. I know it is a matter of how he translates to the NFL. It will be a new horizon when he has a hand in his face every down.
I am done the Daniel Jones. Just find me somebody that can read a defense and get the ball out of his hand decisively. I think Williams, Maye and Daniels will be gone by the time the Giants draft. Not sure Nix is worth a 6-10 pick.
Does not have to be round 1.
Remember you have to fix this OL and you need a #1 WR.
I absolutely agree. They need a better oline coach. I just have not seen any improvement in any lineman in two years with Johnson. They need IOL improvements. Yes they need a #1 WR, but can live with what they have right now.
They also need someonce opposite KT and Deontae Banks...(damn that is a lot.)
Welcome to the abyss.
It's not worth it sometimes...
Quote:
lol ok.
Welcome to the abyss.
It's not worth it sometimes...
Nerve of someone who thought Daniel Jones was a good college prospect to question if someone else watches college football
“Absolute laser” is used to describe his arm…
Jayden Daniels Scouting Report - ( New Window )
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Jayden-Daniels-QB-ArizonaState
Except the quote he left out from that scouting report:
Here’s a Daniels clip from high school casually tossing it 50 yards
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Jayden-Daniels-QB-ArizonaState
“Absolute laser” is used to describe his arm… Jayden Daniels Scouting Report - ( New Window )
He has a very good arm. But I think his best attribute is his release.
Nix led Auburn to a 9–4 record in his freshman season, winning the Iron Bowl, 48–45 over Alabama.[5] He was voted the SEC's 2019 Freshman of the Year,[6] finishing the campaign with 16 touchdowns and 6 interceptions.
Yup, that's some strugglin'.
You’re a bully dude. Just fucking relax. Jesus
Quote:
Thought nobody else know how to use google
You’re a bully dude. Just fucking relax. Jesus
You came on here like a dick with a “do you even watch college football” and then tried to use a scouting report to prove you were right while leaving out the part of the scouting report that said he had a strong arm. Why?
Cry more.
You're trying too hard...
He was a freshman 4 fucking years ago - it's entirely possible he's not the same QB now. Just sayin'....
Quote:
In comment 16301004 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
lol ok.
Actually yes. McCarthy does have a stronger arm than Daniels. Do you watch college football?
Get paid to. Can ask the same question if you if you don’t think Daniels has a NFL arm. Velocity and an NFL arm are not the same thing. Ryan Mallet had a rifle, Ryan Mallet didn’t have an NFL arm.
Can you describe what an NFL Arm is? I am asking seriously because I associate the term ‘nfl arm’ with arm strength. My guess is that the term NFL arm is also talking about touch and accuracy.
Quote:
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
He was a freshman 4 fucking years ago - it's entirely possible he's not the same QB now. Just sayin'....
He was just as bad his sophomore and junior years.
Quote:
In comment 16301243 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
For 16 tds that freshman year. In that win against Alabama he completed 50% of his passes for 1 td. Auburn won because they took two interceptions back for TDS.
He was a freshman 4 fucking years ago - it's entirely possible he's not the same QB now. Just sayin'....
He was just as bad his sophomore and junior years.
And he's now ranked #13 overall. Terrible!
Link - ( New Window )