Posters fed up with Daniel Jones set their hearts on Williams, Drake, and company. They wanted this so badly they began believing this team would lose 8 games in a row.
They did so knowing they had games left against Washington, New England, Saints and Rams, all teams in their weight class. They did this because often they cannot watch a very bad loss and project ahead to any game the Giants might play well enough to win
Consequently we now have threads dominated by disappointment that the unlikely scenario they envisioned has not played out.
They come off as being resentful that other posters don’t share their disappointment, and waste time whining about how the Giants can’t do anything right
The Giants will draft wherever their record indicates. The Giants winning or losing is not connected to what we hope for.
I would not have been terribly disappointed with a loss today, but I ll certainly not be upset because they won, it won’t change anything so I ll just enjoy the win.
But be prepared for next year if the Giants don’t get the quarterback these fans want , to be blamed for not joining them in their misery and bemoaning these Giants wins
On the other hand, the top QBs drafted aren't always the best QBs in each draft.
So we'll see how this plays out.
But if the Giants go into 2024 with no other viable option at QB than Jones, then I doubt Schoen and Daboll survive.
I agree with that. That is the reason I would have been ok with losses these past two weeks, but it didn’t happen and I m not that surprised
Long story short, we're likely going to be drafting the 3rd or 4th QB taken in the draft.
So we’re gonna settle after Williams and Maye are gone. I watch enough college ball to know the gap from Williams/Maye to Nix/Pennix/McCarthy/etc is pretty significant. Taking a QB just to take a QB or rolling back with Jones is the absolute worst place this franchise can be.
After losing to the Jets, and then getting beat by the Raiders with a rookie head coach and QB combo, and then getting embarrassed by the Cowboys for the second time there was absolutely no reason to think that this team would rattle off wins. None.
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There are a ton of teams looking for QBs, and many of them have draft capital too to trade up if need be.
Long story short, we're likely going to be drafting the 3rd or 4th QB taken in the draft.
So we’re gonna settle after Williams and Maye are gone. I watch enough college ball to know the gap from Williams/Maye to Nix/Pennix/McCarthy/etc is pretty significant. Taking a QB just to take a QB or rolling back with Jones is the absolute worst place this franchise can be.
Very possible.
But I've seen enough NFL drafts too to know that the top two "sure thing" quarterbacks are often not that.
So we shall see.
I'd prefer to get our first choice, but that's not likely to happen.
After losing to the Jets, and then getting beat by the Raiders with a rookie head coach and QB combo, and then getting embarrassed by the Cowboys for the second time there was absolutely no reason to think that this team would rattle off wins. None.
But they did and it happens often, it we never learn. Broncos were 1-5 having given up 70 pts in a game, now about to be 6-5
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In comment 16303160 Eric from BBI said:
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There are a ton of teams looking for QBs, and many of them have draft capital too to trade up if need be.
Long story short, we're likely going to be drafting the 3rd or 4th QB taken in the draft.
So we’re gonna settle after Williams and Maye are gone. I watch enough college ball to know the gap from Williams/Maye to Nix/Pennix/McCarthy/etc is pretty significant. Taking a QB just to take a QB or rolling back with Jones is the absolute worst place this franchise can be.
Very possible.
But I've seen enough NFL drafts too to know that the top two "sure thing" quarterbacks are often not that.
So we shall see.
I'd prefer to get our first choice, but that's not likely to happen.
Eric, I agree with you. One thing, and it’s only my gut feeling, is I just don’t feel it with William and Maye.Eric, I agree with you. I know JS will only take the QB that they really like and not force it. It’s a weird situation. In my personal opinion, I feel more comfortable with Jayden Daniels, but that’s only my opinion. If they stay in the same position that they have been slated, thus far, which is pick number six, they still should have enough trade to get a quarterback that they like.
If he's a bad evaluator of quarterback talent, the odds of him missing are high whether he has the 1st or 10th pick.
If he's a good evaluator, you want him to have a the highest pick to increase the odds he gets his guy.
And if he's a good talent evaluator, it's better he doesn't have to burn picks to move up. He'll pick other good players with those picks too.
If he's a bad evaluator of quarterback talent, the odds of him missing are high whether he has the 1st or 10th pick.
If he's a good evaluator, you want him to have a the highest pick to increase the odds he gets his guy.
And if he's a good talent evaluator, it's better he doesn't have to burn picks to move up. He'll pick other good players with those picks too.
Yeah, but what's good for the draft is bad for Daboll.
If he's a bad evaluator of quarterback talent, the odds of him missing are high whether he has the 1st or 10th pick.
If he's a good evaluator, you want him to have a the highest pick to increase the odds he gets his guy.
And if he's a good talent evaluator, it's better he doesn't have to burn picks to move up. He'll pick other good players with those picks too.
Yeah, but what's good for the draft is bad for Daboll.
I think Daboll's job is safe at 5-6 wins and no major interpersonal stuff. Putting two wins on the board with DeVito at QB might have already saved it.
This franchise desperately needs a coach who is competent.
On the other hand, the top QBs drafted aren't always the best QBs in each draft.
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and the Patriots shanked a short field goal to tie it. Last week the Commanders turned the ball over six times. SIX. This team is as bad as everyone thinks they are - they just find ways to be less bad than some of worst teams in the league each week.
After losing to the Jets, and then getting beat by the Raiders with a rookie head coach and QB combo, and then getting embarrassed by the Cowboys for the second time there was absolutely no reason to think that this team would rattle off wins. None.
But they did and it happens often, it we never learn. Broncos were 1-5 having given up 70 pts in a game, now about to be 6-5
What the Broncos are doing this year is absolutely an anomaly. And the only reason why they were in a position to have a turnaround is because they have a seasoned QB and coaches. It's not comparable.
At the end of the day, this team has managed to beat the beatable teams on their schedule. I didn't expect them to get to 4 wins this fast but I think most here still figured they would get a couple more wins and not lose every single game. If they win another game or two over these last 6 weeks against tougher teams then a thread like this will make more sense.
Sure they can. And should, if Maye or Williams are gone.
Sure they can. And should, if Maye or Williams are gone.
Nope.
Can't win without a QB.
Giants don't have a QB.
Aside from that, BPA is a myth. Last time the Giants did that was 1984.
It is completely dumb to just take a player because they need a QB. I want Schoen to take the QB he has conviction on if he’s available, whether they trade or just take the guy at that spot.
It is completely dumb to just take a player because they need a QB. I want Schoen to take the QB he has conviction on if he’s available, whether they trade or just take the guy at that spot.
They've boxed themselves into a corner.
Schoen and Daboll won't survive another 5-12 type season.
Daniel Jones is a loser. They need to draft a QB, either praying one falls to them or trading up.
It is what it is.
Schoen isn’t getting fired after next year. Daboll isn’t getting fired next year.
Schoen isn’t getting fired after next year. Daboll isn’t getting fired next year.
If they go 5-12 again with Daniel Jones, they're toast.
That’s plenty high enough to go up and get their QB (particularly in a trade with Chicago).
It would likely cost their own 2nd and then a 2025 1st.
Schoen will absolutely do it if he views Williams or Maye as franchise changing.
The question becomes, are there elite players that Schoen also values in this draft and wants to keep their capital because they still need a lot of better talent.
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Eric, wrong again.
Schoen isn’t getting fired after next year. Daboll isn’t getting fired next year.
If they go 5-12 again with Daniel Jones, they're toast.
This. I think, as weird as this will sound, winning these last 2 weeks might actually lead to their firing. The scenario is this: they finish in spot 5 or 6.
It’s entirely possible the top 3 you see tonight in Ray’s thread will be the top 3 come draft night. Maye/Williams to Chicago via Carolina (and new HC Jim Harbaugh), Harrison to Arizona, Williams/Maye to Pats. NYG at 5 or 6 and will either take OT (precursor to moving Neal to OG), force QB (not advised), or look to trade out.
I would defer to Schoen/Daboll in that case, but personally, I’m not a fan of any QB in this draft not named Williams or Maye.
I will continue to hope the losses pile up, so we have can select from the most players available. And parlay a high pick into a QB with great upside.
I will continue to hope the losses pile up, so we have can select from the most players available. And parlay a high pick into a QB with great upside.
Even if we lose out, we likely don’t get any better than 5.
This franchise desperately needs a coach who is competent.
How many times are you going to beat this drum? Daboll has already shown he's competent. Most of this board now believes that Daniel Jones isn't very good. Daboll won NFL coach of the year and won a playoff game with that guy as his QB.
Daboll has won back-to-back games with Tommy DeVito as his starter, an UDFA rookie QB who does not have any elite physical traits.
And this season has been a brutal one WRT to injuries, especially on the OL, having them start guys "off the couch".
Most teams that don't have a franchise QB do not win many games. A team that does not have a franchise QB and has a porous OL? That team is going to lose the great majority.
The problem is not Daboll. Mara isn't going to can Daboll under these circumstances a year removed from him winning coach of the year.
The absolute best thing for Daboll's career as the head coach of the New York Giants is to acquire an elite QB.
To sum up, nothing that will happen or could've happened in a season like this would've put Daboll in the unemployment line. If they get a massive upgrade at QB and Daboll is able to win games next year, when he WILL be the HC of this team, then this year will matter even less than it does now.
IF the Giants can't get an elite QB in this draft, and the team runs it back with Jones because of a few more wins in 2023, THAT is what would be bad for Daboll's career.
And remember, Mara didn't even want to fire Judge, Tisch had to intervene to make it happen, so that the new GM wouldn't be saddled with a HC that wasn't his guy.
Daboll is Schoen's guy. They are on the same page, and the organizational stability is something that Mara has acknowledged they need.
And you can't say Schoen hasn't earned his keep. His draft picks have mostly been a smashing success based on early returns.
And who has been developing those picks? Daboll and his coaching staff. This organization is in very good (competent) hands. They still need a QB, though, that is their biggest problem and challenge and they won't be a legitimate playoff contender until they get one.
And if they get one, then who is Mara going to want more than Daboll to develop that QB? Perhaps it's the guy he hired to try to make chicken salad out of Daniel Jones (and he made him look passable for a beat), and the guy that helped make Josh Allen a star in Buffalo (who also hasn't played nearly as well since Daboll's departure).
Daboll is the HC at least through next year, and I would guess he gets 2025 as well, because you have to give your coach more than one year with a rookie QB, or else "you're doing everything you can to mess him up."
2-15 would have been worse than any year McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge had.
Lastly, all I hear is Jet fans citing Saleh's 15-30 record for a reason for him to get fired. Daboll did win a playoff game, but I have no doubt that fans would have referenced his overall record next year as reason to move off him.
I agree. Especially if they box themselves in with Jones.
Imagine a scenario where they don't pick a QB on round one, Jones gets injured again, and his injury guarantee conveys.
That's not a farfetched scenario.
2-15 would have been worse than any year McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge had.
Lastly, all I hear is Jet fans citing Saleh's 15-30 record for a reason for him to get fired. Daboll did win a playoff game, but I have no doubt that fans would have referenced his overall record next year as reason to move off him.
Sean - Kyle Shanahan has had plenty of shitty records with SF. Is he a bad coach? Did he lose the locker room?
They'll have a shot to draft and develop a talented QB in this draft. But if history is any guide they will pass.
But the more intelligent of us know that if the Giants are ever going to be competitive again they need a huge upgrade at QB.
The only way that happens is via the NFL Draft.
Get it?
There were threads on here a few weeks ago where posters were openly stating they wanted losses so as to improve draft order.
Those of us that wanted wins over tanking were called romantics...
Did you not see any of those threads?
On the other hand, the top QBs drafted aren't always the best QBs in each draft.
So we'll see how this plays out.
But if the Giants go into 2024 with no other viable option at QB than Jones, then I doubt Schoen and Daboll survive.
Lol … Jones is my new Graham. My take? Jones has had the worst luck of any Giants QB in history. He’ll be the QB next season. 100% no doubt. I’d bet 40 million on it if you know what I mean. We need PASS PROTECTION and RUN BLOCKING upgrades.
It’s bizarre that everyone has quickly forgotten that Jones was the best player of any last year in the wildcard round. And yet, somehow he’s seen as incompetent now. A higher draft pick means absolutely nothing. NOTHIING.
If your scouting department is worth anything they will find talent.
Meanwhile - as unlikely as it may be - I’m way more excited at beating the Packers and running the table. That includes beating the Eagle twice. I’m all in for going 8-9 and making it in. That’s the boat I’m on. And if it doesn’t happen?
Fine.
Then we pick where we pick in the draft.
In 2011? It was “All in”.
In 2023? It’s “All in Ugly Wins.”
We can beat the Packers. Then it’s 4 more. What an amazing story it would be.
New England has a rough schedule and may not win again this season.
Arizona, though they do play the Bears, also may not win another game.
I see the Giants likely edging into the 4-5th draft spot by the end of the season.
The Titans are now a team to look out for. Tough schedule. They are likely finishing with 4-5 wins, so right in Giants territory.
The Bears end the season with three winnable contests.
So the way I see it, 3 teams are really in contention for picks 1-3:
Carolina, New England, Arizona (surprisingly)
And three others are in the 4-6 range:
Chicago, Tennessee, Giants
One team I’m concerned about is Tampa Bay, which has been playing terribly. Their defense has allowed over 400 yards offense in 4 of the last 5 games. But they also face Carolina twice.
These are the players.
This is all I've ever felt about the Giants with Daniel Jones:
Come on, do better.
The Giants are much better off having their senior management and coaching staff prove they are the right people for the job.
If they love a QB, trade the farm for him. They'll be in striking distance. Meanwhile, fucking show you belong in your jobs.
For the record, I understand hoping for losses, I ve done it myself in other seasons. My point is doing so with 8 games left is setting one s self up for disappointment. It seems this disappointment results in frustration maybe even anger regarding those not sharing in that disappointment
I m assuming you are in the camp of being disappointed. I ve read the arguments going back and forth on the issue, and claiming only one side of the argument to be myopic is myopic in and of itself.
I don't stress over draft position because as long as there is a game, coaches and players will try to win. A head coaches record is often referenced especially when there are calls for a coaching change. Daboll is now 14-16-1.
So yes, fans set themselves up for disappointment. It will be on Schoen to find a franchise QB who can elevate those around him. If not, he'll be fired. And the plan can't be, "just bottom out and draft him at 1."
The Giants need a QB though and if anything these games have been damning for Jones. I just don't have the confidence he's even attempting some of these throws to Hyatt.
If Schoen has to trade a future first and nails QB, no one will care. If he doesn't, he'll be fired.
I thought the NEFT was the better move.
JS/BD made the decision to go with Jones. Schoen did a poor job putting a better team around him to maximize that contract and BD has also come up short as a HC.
Whoever is the QB moving forward he is going to need a lot more support with both talent and coaching.
I don't stress over draft position because as long as there is a game, coaches and players will try to win. A head coaches record is often referenced especially when there are calls for a coaching change. Daboll is now 14-16-1.
So yes, fans set themselves up for disappointment. It will be on Schoen to find a franchise QB who can elevate those around him. If not, he'll be fired. And the plan can't be, "just bottom out and draft him at 1."
The Giants need a QB though and if anything these games have been damning for Jones. I just don't have the confidence he's even attempting some of these throws to Hyatt.
If Schoen has to trade a future first and nails QB, no one will care. If he doesn't, he'll be fired.
There hasn’t been a more steady supporter of Jones than me , but I had the same thought about attempting those throws.
I don't stress over draft position because as long as there is a game, coaches and players will try to win. A head coaches record is often referenced especially when there are calls for a coaching change. Daboll is now 14-16-1.
So yes, fans set themselves up for disappointment. It will be on Schoen to find a franchise QB who can elevate those around him. If not, he'll be fired. And the plan can't be, "just bottom out and draft him at 1."
The Giants need a QB though and if anything these games have been damning for Jones. I just don't have the confidence he's even attempting some of these throws to Hyatt.
If Schoen has to trade a future first and nails QB, no one will care. If he doesn't, he'll be fired.
There hasn’t been a more steady supporter of Jones than me , but I had the same thought about attempting those throws.
Just wanted to make my point Jon, never have been under any delusion that anything thing I contribute would change anyone’s mind.
Don’t even really want to.
The better Tommy plays, the more damning it is for Jones.
and let's be clear - even when we don't tank and a HOF-level game-changer lands in our laps after a shitty season, we STILL fuck it up (see, e.g., Parsons, Micah). you trust this franchise to tank and get exactly the right player?
Graham was a terrible QB who was benched.
Your posts on the Giants resonate of Bagdad Bob.