Posters fed up with Daniel Jones set their hearts on Williams, Drake, and company. They wanted this so badly they began believing this team would lose 8 games in a row.
They did so knowing they had games left against Washington, New England, Saints and Rams, all teams in their weight class. They did this because often they cannot watch a very bad loss and project ahead to any game the Giants might play well enough to win
Consequently we now have threads dominated by disappointment that the unlikely scenario they envisioned has not played out.
They come off as being resentful that other posters don’t share their disappointment, and waste time whining about how the Giants can’t do anything right
The Giants will draft wherever their record indicates. The Giants winning or losing is not connected to what we hope for.
I would not have been terribly disappointed with a loss today, but I ll certainly not be upset because they won, it won’t change anything so I ll just enjoy the win.
But be prepared for next year if the Giants don’t get the quarterback these fans want , to be blamed for not joining them in their misery and bemoaning these Giants wins
This franchise desperately needs a coach who is competent.
How many times are you going to beat this drum? Daboll has already shown he's competent. Most of this board now believes that Daniel Jones isn't very good. Daboll won NFL coach of the year and won a playoff game with that guy as his QB.
Daboll has won back-to-back games with Tommy DeVito as his starter, an UDFA rookie QB who does not have any elite physical traits.
And this season has been a brutal one WRT to injuries, especially on the OL, having them start guys "off the couch".
Most teams that don't have a franchise QB do not win many games. A team that does not have a franchise QB and has a porous OL? That team is going to lose the great majority.
The problem is not Daboll. Mara isn't going to can Daboll under these circumstances a year removed from him winning coach of the year.
The absolute best thing for Daboll's career as the head coach of the New York Giants is to acquire an elite QB.
To sum up, nothing that will happen or could've happened in a season like this would've put Daboll in the unemployment line. If they get a massive upgrade at QB and Daboll is able to win games next year, when he WILL be the HC of this team, then this year will matter even less than it does now.
IF the Giants can't get an elite QB in this draft, and the team runs it back with Jones because of a few more wins in 2023, THAT is what would be bad for Daboll's career.
And remember, Mara didn't even want to fire Judge, Tisch had to intervene to make it happen, so that the new GM wouldn't be saddled with a HC that wasn't his guy.
Daboll is Schoen's guy. They are on the same page, and the organizational stability is something that Mara has acknowledged they need.
And you can't say Schoen hasn't earned his keep. His draft picks have mostly been a smashing success based on early returns.
And who has been developing those picks? Daboll and his coaching staff. This organization is in very good (competent) hands. They still need a QB, though, that is their biggest problem and challenge and they won't be a legitimate playoff contender until they get one.
And if they get one, then who is Mara going to want more than Daboll to develop that QB? Perhaps it's the guy he hired to try to make chicken salad out of Daniel Jones (and he made him look passable for a beat), and the guy that helped make Josh Allen a star in Buffalo (who also hasn't played nearly as well since Daboll's departure).
Daboll is the HC at least through next year, and I would guess he gets 2025 as well, because you have to give your coach more than one year with a rookie QB, or else "you're doing everything you can to mess him up."
2-15 would have been worse than any year McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge had.
Lastly, all I hear is Jet fans citing Saleh's 15-30 record for a reason for him to get fired. Daboll did win a playoff game, but I have no doubt that fans would have referenced his overall record next year as reason to move off him.
I agree. Especially if they box themselves in with Jones.
Imagine a scenario where they don't pick a QB on round one, Jones gets injured again, and his injury guarantee conveys.
That's not a farfetched scenario.
2-15 would have been worse than any year McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge had.
Lastly, all I hear is Jet fans citing Saleh's 15-30 record for a reason for him to get fired. Daboll did win a playoff game, but I have no doubt that fans would have referenced his overall record next year as reason to move off him.
Sean - Kyle Shanahan has had plenty of shitty records with SF. Is he a bad coach? Did he lose the locker room?
They'll have a shot to draft and develop a talented QB in this draft. But if history is any guide they will pass.
But the more intelligent of us know that if the Giants are ever going to be competitive again they need a huge upgrade at QB.
The only way that happens is via the NFL Draft.
Get it?
There were threads on here a few weeks ago where posters were openly stating they wanted losses so as to improve draft order.
Those of us that wanted wins over tanking were called romantics...
Did you not see any of those threads?
On the other hand, the top QBs drafted aren't always the best QBs in each draft.
So we'll see how this plays out.
But if the Giants go into 2024 with no other viable option at QB than Jones, then I doubt Schoen and Daboll survive.
Lol … Jones is my new Graham. My take? Jones has had the worst luck of any Giants QB in history. He’ll be the QB next season. 100% no doubt. I’d bet 40 million on it if you know what I mean. We need PASS PROTECTION and RUN BLOCKING upgrades.
It’s bizarre that everyone has quickly forgotten that Jones was the best player of any last year in the wildcard round. And yet, somehow he’s seen as incompetent now. A higher draft pick means absolutely nothing. NOTHIING.
If your scouting department is worth anything they will find talent.
Meanwhile - as unlikely as it may be - I’m way more excited at beating the Packers and running the table. That includes beating the Eagle twice. I’m all in for going 8-9 and making it in. That’s the boat I’m on. And if it doesn’t happen?
Fine.
Then we pick where we pick in the draft.
In 2011? It was “All in”.
In 2023? It’s “All in Ugly Wins.”
We can beat the Packers. Then it’s 4 more. What an amazing story it would be.
New England has a rough schedule and may not win again this season.
Arizona, though they do play the Bears, also may not win another game.
I see the Giants likely edging into the 4-5th draft spot by the end of the season.
The Titans are now a team to look out for. Tough schedule. They are likely finishing with 4-5 wins, so right in Giants territory.
The Bears end the season with three winnable contests.
So the way I see it, 3 teams are really in contention for picks 1-3:
Carolina, New England, Arizona (surprisingly)
And three others are in the 4-6 range:
Chicago, Tennessee, Giants
One team I’m concerned about is Tampa Bay, which has been playing terribly. Their defense has allowed over 400 yards offense in 4 of the last 5 games. But they also face Carolina twice.
These are the players.
This is all I've ever felt about the Giants with Daniel Jones:
Come on, do better.
The Giants are much better off having their senior management and coaching staff prove they are the right people for the job.
If they love a QB, trade the farm for him. They'll be in striking distance. Meanwhile, fucking show you belong in your jobs.
For the record, I understand hoping for losses, I ve done it myself in other seasons. My point is doing so with 8 games left is setting one s self up for disappointment. It seems this disappointment results in frustration maybe even anger regarding those not sharing in that disappointment
I m assuming you are in the camp of being disappointed. I ve read the arguments going back and forth on the issue, and claiming only one side of the argument to be myopic is myopic in and of itself.
I don't stress over draft position because as long as there is a game, coaches and players will try to win. A head coaches record is often referenced especially when there are calls for a coaching change. Daboll is now 14-16-1.
So yes, fans set themselves up for disappointment. It will be on Schoen to find a franchise QB who can elevate those around him. If not, he'll be fired. And the plan can't be, "just bottom out and draft him at 1."
The Giants need a QB though and if anything these games have been damning for Jones. I just don't have the confidence he's even attempting some of these throws to Hyatt.
If Schoen has to trade a future first and nails QB, no one will care. If he doesn't, he'll be fired.
I thought the NEFT was the better move.
JS/BD made the decision to go with Jones. Schoen did a poor job putting a better team around him to maximize that contract and BD has also come up short as a HC.
Whoever is the QB moving forward he is going to need a lot more support with both talent and coaching.
I don't stress over draft position because as long as there is a game, coaches and players will try to win. A head coaches record is often referenced especially when there are calls for a coaching change. Daboll is now 14-16-1.
So yes, fans set themselves up for disappointment. It will be on Schoen to find a franchise QB who can elevate those around him. If not, he'll be fired. And the plan can't be, "just bottom out and draft him at 1."
The Giants need a QB though and if anything these games have been damning for Jones. I just don't have the confidence he's even attempting some of these throws to Hyatt.
If Schoen has to trade a future first and nails QB, no one will care. If he doesn't, he'll be fired.
There hasn’t been a more steady supporter of Jones than me , but I had the same thought about attempting those throws.
I don't stress over draft position because as long as there is a game, coaches and players will try to win. A head coaches record is often referenced especially when there are calls for a coaching change. Daboll is now 14-16-1.
So yes, fans set themselves up for disappointment. It will be on Schoen to find a franchise QB who can elevate those around him. If not, he'll be fired. And the plan can't be, "just bottom out and draft him at 1."
The Giants need a QB though and if anything these games have been damning for Jones. I just don't have the confidence he's even attempting some of these throws to Hyatt.
If Schoen has to trade a future first and nails QB, no one will care. If he doesn't, he'll be fired.
There hasn’t been a more steady supporter of Jones than me , but I had the same thought about attempting those throws.
Just wanted to make my point Jon, never have been under any delusion that anything thing I contribute would change anyone’s mind.
Don’t even really want to.
The better Tommy plays, the more damning it is for Jones.
and let's be clear - even when we don't tank and a HOF-level game-changer lands in our laps after a shitty season, we STILL fuck it up (see, e.g., Parsons, Micah). you trust this franchise to tank and get exactly the right player?
Graham was a terrible QB who was benched.
Your posts on the Giants resonate of Bagdad Bob.