That is an objective fact. But the comparisons to TT and TD are not apples to apples. The biggest difference besides things like Oline play, having Saquan, and quality of defenses has been DJ's reluctance to attack down field. Those guys have done it, he did not.
That is an objective fact. But the comparisons to TT and TD are not apples to apples. The biggest difference besides things like Oline play, having Saquan, and quality of defenses has been DJ's reluctance to attack down field. Those guys have done it, he did not.
The OL hasn't been that much better. It just hasn't. Thomas has helped settle some things down, but he also missed a chunk of one of those gams. The interior hasn't been good and neither has the RT.
Some of the sacks are on DeVito but the OL hasn't been a strength. Last week, the Giants had no yards rushing until the end of the 3rd quarter. DeVito didn't melt. He threw three TDs, something Jones hasn't done in four years.
I gave up a long time ago trying to predict which QB would end up being better in each draft.
And as I said above, no one on BBI seems to be any good at predicting it either. See Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, etc.
Comment was a bit tongue in cheek.
But seen enough of Nix in both conferences he played to conclude there is not much special in his game. His good stats this year has a lot to do with how Oregon runs their offense and some pretty bad defenses in West. And he still has a penchant for forcing bonehead throws anyway.
If going with one of the west coast QB prospects then go with one of the other guys that have more plus attributes.
Thomas was out early, Pugh has helped, and other people are playing better. The line now is inconsistent, some good reps, some bad. But it was outright disaster earlier on. We can tell ourselves otherwise to help boost our point, but it's just not true.
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
The way I look it at is this:
- Daniel Jones isn't the guy.
- He's been hurt five times in five years (twice this year).
- Giants are going to have a relatively high draft pick, plus a second 2nd rounder if they need to move up (including possibly moving up late in the 1st round).
- Half the fan base is calling for the head of the GM and HC already. You can say that doesn't matter, but it does.
- This looks like a good year to draft a QB. There maybe a half dozen who are viable NFL starters.
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
Thomas was out early, Pugh has helped, and other people are playing better. The line now is inconsistent, some good reps, some bad. But it was outright disaster earlier on. We can tell ourselves otherwise to help boost our point, but it's just not true.
I don't get the Pugh love. I don't think he has been good.
There will not be 6 quality NFL starters in this draft
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
Gettleman tended to react. For better of worse, Schoen has proven two drafts in a row that he will move to get the guy he wants. He traded up one spot to make sure he got Banks.
RE: There will not be 6 quality NFL starters in this draft
Thomas was out early, Pugh has helped, and other people are playing better. The line now is inconsistent, some good reps, some bad. But it was outright disaster earlier on. We can tell ourselves otherwise to help boost our point, but it's just not true.
I don't get the Pugh love. I don't think he has been good.
It' relative. There were so many issues before, some of it possibly communications, I don't know. But it was worse. Things have stabalized somewhat
Watch the Giants draft Bo Nix and the cycle starts all over again for the next 5 years. A polarizing QB among the fan base.
I can totally see it.
Nix is more interesting later on in the draft. He doesn't have any elite skills to warrant a lottery pick. But an investment in him on day two or early day three makes the idea more sellable.
RE: RE: There will not be 6 quality NFL starters in this draft
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
Gettleman tended to react. For better of worse, Schoen has proven two drafts in a row that he will move to get the guy he wants. He traded up one spot to make sure he got Banks.
Yeah, if the target is within striking distance, absolutely. Go get him. It can be a heavy prices to move up when you are talking about that high in the draft, so you have to be right. But if your guy is there to be had... go get him. We aren't turning this around without that guy, I agree.
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
You don’t know if he’s Jones Part 2 until you see if he’s taking live bullets. Caleb Williams could end up Ryan Lead or Peyton Manning. Jayden Daniels could be a better Lamar or be Daniel Jones Part 2. We can form opinions on who will be good and who won’t, but with QBs you can’t know for sure.
Gettleman forced a QB pick because he was too late on realizing they needed one. The Giants are unfortunately in a similar spot. I don’t consider it forcing it in a highly regarded class. They could miss, but they have to take the risk.
Yes, it would have been a huge mistake. Eli wasn't anywhere close to be done. In that position, the Giants should have gotten a king's ransom for the #1 pick and rebuilt an OL that was done (and still hasn't recovered). Why would the 2012 New York Giants want two franchise QBs?
All very true, the Giants really would've had no choice but to trade him away for multiple #1 picks, but I bet there would've been some in the organization thinking, "we're gonna regret this one day."
In any case, Daniel Jones isn't coming off a Super Bowl victory, he's coming off an ACL injury; and Caleb Williams and Drake Maye aren't Andrew Luck and even if they were, the Giants won't be drafting in the top two or three. So putting history aside and given the Giants current circumstances, I don't see them waiting until Day 3 to draft a QB; so it really just comes down to where the QB prospects sit on their draft board compared to the prospects that fill other needs.
p.s.--The Chargers had a pretty good QB in Drew Brees, but fell in love with Phillip Rivers at the Senior Bowl (the Chargers coaching staff was coaching him at that game). Brees elevated his game, keeping Rivers on the bench for two years, but I think those years on the bench served him well and made for a more seamless transition from college to the NFL. The Giants could wind up following a similar model.
RE: There will not be 6 quality NFL starters in this draft
"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
Yup.
It's getting really weird.
What in the world has Daniel Jones done to engender this type of loyalty? He's 22-36-1 as a starter, with 62 TDs in five seasons with 40 INTs and 46 fumbles. Do the math. The numbers are comical.
You can be rest assured that both Dallas and Philly would have replaced their starting QB well before now if they were putting out that kind of product too! Wentz was highly drafted prospect had a few great moments in Philly and was quickly replaced. Dak Prescott, a 4th round pick, has had a very productive career, however it’s the post-season that has been his biggest issue. But you can argue that Dallas is in it every year because of him.
That's why the scouts are flying to all these games. If a guy doesn't grade out, you don't draft him just because we need a QB. That goes for any position. The mindset can't be --get a QB at any cost. It has to be, get the right QB. Because without the right guy, this isn't going to change. In any draft class there are a limited number of guys who will pan out. In some classes, none of them do. No one knows for sure who will or who will not pan out, but the point is, it will be a pretty small number, so be smart.
Eric, another baseless claim. Half the Giants fan base is calling for Schoen and Daboll to be fired? That is nowhere near reality.
Majority of the fan base, I'd say probably over 90%, understand that Schoen is the right GM for this team and that Daboll is a good head coach.
Anyone who wants them fired already is either not thinking clearly or isn't invested in the long term success of the Giants, they just want someone to yell at every 2 years.
That's why the scouts are flying to all these games. If a guy doesn't grade out, you don't draft him just because we need a QB. That goes for any position. The mindset can't be --get a QB at any cost. It has to be, get the right QB. Because without the right guy, this isn't going to change. In any draft class there are a limited number of guys who will pan out. In some classes, none of them do. No one knows for sure who will or who will not pan out, but the point is, it will be a pretty small number, so be smart.
Sure, but the top 3 QBs in this draft are going to grade out as very good prospects. And if that’s the case, they have to take say Daniels at 5 even if he’s the #15 guy on their board. If they don’t someone behind them will
That's why the scouts are flying to all these games. If a guy doesn't grade out, you don't draft him just because we need a QB. That goes for any position. The mindset can't be --get a QB at any cost. It has to be, get the right QB. Because without the right guy, this isn't going to change. In any draft class there are a limited number of guys who will pan out. In some classes, none of them do. No one knows for sure who will or who will not pan out, but the point is, it will be a pretty small number, so be smart.
Sure, but the top 3 QBs in this draft are going to grade out as very good prospects.
How do you know that? From reading BBI?
Quote:
And if that’s the case, they have to take say Daniels at 5 even if he’s the #15 guy on their board.
And you're assuming Daniels is one of the three and worthy of a top five pick based on what? BBI? It's not as if you're watching 10 hours of college football a day and visiting with coaches and players every week.
Great Blue North and DraftTek updated their draft boards on Thanksgiving Day, neither of them had Daniels in their Top 32, let alone their Top 5. I don't think we have any idea at this point how the QB prospects will fall in the 2024 draft. There will be a ton of shuffling between now and then, some based on new information, some based on misinformation.
Eric, another baseless claim. Half the Giants fan base is calling for Schoen and Daboll to be fired? That is nowhere near reality.
Majority of the fan base, I'd say probably over 90%, understand that Schoen is the right GM for this team and that Daboll is a good head coach.
Anyone who wants them fired already is either not thinking clearly or isn't invested in the long term success of the Giants, they just want someone to yell at every 2 years.
Yeah, I'm all about baseless claims.
Viva Daniel Jones!
RE: RE: There will not be 6 quality NFL starters in this draft
But there may be six quarterbacks in this draft who are better than Daniel Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Tommy DeVito.
Lol...6 better than Jones? Man...play the lottery if you're right, you'll win every time. And after a statement like that you call out people who don't want the Giants to do what Carolina did. Their team is fucked for a decade. I may be this "groupie" that you say (odd, coming from the biggest groupie I know in another line of work), but at least I don't have Dan Snyder Syndrome or Jerrah Jones Disease. With glaring needs at RT, RG, LG, OLB, S, CB, TE, WR, DT, and DE, you want to trade multiple 1sts and more for the CHANCE we get Peyton Manning II. Lol.
Sure, but the top 3 QBs in this draft are going to grade out as very good prospects.
How do you know that? From reading BBI?
Quote:
And if that’s the case, they have to take say Daniels at 5 even if he’s the #15 guy on their board.
And you're assuming Daniels is one of the three and worthy of a top five pick based on what? BBI? It's not as if you're watching 10 hours of college football a day and visiting with coaches and players every week.
Great Blue North and DraftTek updated their draft boards on Thanksgiving Day, neither of them had Daniels in their Top 32, let alone their Top 5. I don't think we have any idea at this point how the QB prospects will fall in the 2024 draft. There will be a ton of shuffling between now and then, some based on new information, some based on misinformation.
From seeing them play in person and talking to people in the business. I’ll take their opinions over fans that run a draft site, no disrespect to them. Every scout and agent I’ve spoken to thinks Daniels goes in the top 10 and possibly the top 5.
Daneil Jones is not an NFL caliber starting quarterback.
Even if he was, he can't stay on the football field.
He's never going to be good enough to close the gap with the Eagles and Cowboys.
Dragging this out longer than five years is just going to add to the pain, It happens. As my wife just said, stop drafting quarterbacks from Duke. It's a basketball school.
Daneil Jones is not an NFL caliber starting quarterback.
Even if he was, he can't stay on the football field.
He's never going to be good enough to close the gap with the Eagles and Cowboys.
Dragging this out longer than five years is just going to add to the pain, It happens. As my wife just said, stop drafting quarterbacks from Duke. It's a basketball school.
C'mon Eric. That's absurd. If it wasn't you Eric I'd think you were trolling BBI. Did Jones put the moves on your wife?
It's easy to predict where this is going with Daniel. He'll hang around as a disappointing starter either here or somewhere else for one or two more seasons. He'll end up playing for someone else like when Sam Darnold left the Jets. Then it will be apparent to everyone that he's a back-up at best. That's if he doesn't suffer another neck injury which forces him to retire.
Remember coaches, scouts and GMs view players differently than armchair QB's and people alike. It's become more evident year after year. Anthony Richardson shot up the draft board very high last year and he was unlike your typical first rounder. Good traits but raw and inaccurate as hell. And most got Dwayne Haskins wrong by a country mile. He was viewed by the media and fans as a top 6 pick. If Dan Snyder hadn't picked him, he probably falls out of the 1st round.
are only a small number of QBs in the league who are capable of winning a Super Bowl. That's just the way the league is now. Most of the teams are just fodder. We're in the fodder category.
That's why they need to keep throwing darts until they get this right.
Remember coaches, scouts and GMs view players differently than armchair QB's and people alike. It's become more evident year after year. Anthony Richardson shot up the draft board very high last year and he was unlike your typical first rounder. Good traits but raw and inaccurate as hell. And most got Dwayne Haskins wrong by a country mile. He was viewed by the media and fans as a top 6 pick. If Dan Snyder hadn't picked him, he probably falls out of the 1st round.
It works in reverse too though. There’s plenty of guys who “armchair GM’s” absolutely hated that scouts took at the top of the draft. We have one of them.
the Daniel Jones cult loves to point to the second half of the Arizona game. Or the Minnesota playoff game. Maybe a game or two his rookie season...You're clinging to a game or quarter here and there...Daniel Jones is not going to get the Giants to a level to compete against the Eagles and Cowboys. He's just not going to do so...I feel I'm talking to a guy who can't get over a bad relationship with some chick who is abusing him.
I think you're misreading me and the Jones defenders in general. I don't think any of us are in love with Jones, we're just not ready to give up on him when there are things he does quite well. Just because we don't see the Giants as being in "QB hell" or desperate enough to trade up for one doesn't mean we are completely sold on him, nor does it mean we're opposed to taking a QB in the top ten if he's the BPA. In fact, I would love it if that were the case; but if it's not the case, so be it. They can still win the Super Bowl. Same as they did in 2007 and 2011, two seasons that began will low expectations.
Schoen and Daboll aren't two clowns off the street. They didn't have to sign him to the contract they did, they could've easily tagged him. And I don't for a second buy into the narrative about pressure from ownership (a fiction based on nothing more than confirmation bias because it's easier to fool yourself into believing you know more football than John Mara than it is to believe you know more than Schoen & Daboll). I'd be surprised if they went from believing him worthy of his contract in February to being desperate to replace him in November.
RE: There will not be 6 quality NFL starters in this draft
He can't stay healthy. He's had five injuries in five years that have cause him to miss significant playing time.
In four years, he has thrown 38 touchdowns passes (less than 10 per season). He has 40 INTs and 48 fumbles. He's won 22 games in five years.
His back-ups are playing just as well as he was.
Yeah, but I'm crazy. LOL
Now Eric you know I'd never say you were crazy. Just wrong about Jones. Except his injuries.
Anyway, nothing meaningful is going to happen with or about DJ for months and there's nothing to add that's going to change anyone's mind. Personally I'm rooting for wins.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ajr2456 --you go by your draft grade.
From seeing them play in person and talking to people in the business. I’ll take their opinions over fans that run a draft site, no disrespect to them. Every scout and agent I’ve spoken to thinks Daniels goes in the top 10 and possibly the top 5.
I didn't realize you had the privilege of speaking with scouts and agents. Can you be more specific on what they had to say? I like the fact that Daniels is a 22-year old with five years of college experience, but too much of his production comes from running and he doesn't look big enough to sustain that at the NFL level.
Remember coaches, scouts and GMs view players differently than armchair QB's and people alike. It's become more evident year after year. Anthony Richardson shot up the draft board very high last year and he was unlike your typical first rounder. Good traits but raw and inaccurate as hell. And most got Dwayne Haskins wrong by a country mile. He was viewed by the media and fans as a top 6 pick. If Dan Snyder hadn't picked him, he probably falls out of the 1st round.
It works in reverse too though. There’s plenty of guys who “armchair GM’s” absolutely hated that scouts took at the top of the draft. We have one of them.
Reaches happen quite often. Anthony Richardson is one himself.. But we don't see many guys getting universally praised by the media and armchair QB's and then they fall in the draft. Then hey, turns out, they were right. Fans and media just ignore it and move on, but they make sure to bitch and moan during the Draft and all summer.
From seeing them play in person and talking to people in the business. I’ll take their opinions over fans that run a draft site, no disrespect to them. Every scout and agent I’ve spoken to thinks Daniels goes in the top 10 and possibly the top 5.
I didn't realize you had the privilege of speaking with scouts and agents. Can you be more specific on what they had to say? I like the fact that Daniels is a 22-year old with five years of college experience, but too much of his production comes from running and he doesn't look big enough to sustain that at the NFL level.
Did you just write this with a straight face?
This year, Daniels has nearly 4K passing yard, 40 passing TDs against 4 INTs, a near 12 YPA and completes 72% of his passes. He does have 10 rushing TDs and 1K rushing.
He's 6'4", btw, with plenty of room to get bigger.
I don't mind legit criticism of a prospect, but posters need to wake up and really start paying more attention.
Remember coaches, scouts and GMs view players differently than armchair QB's and people alike. It's become more evident year after year. Anthony Richardson shot up the draft board very high last year and he was unlike your typical first rounder. Good traits but raw and inaccurate as hell. And most got Dwayne Haskins wrong by a country mile. He was viewed by the media and fans as a top 6 pick. If Dan Snyder hadn't picked him, he probably falls out of the 1st round.
It works in reverse too though. There’s plenty of guys who “armchair GM’s” absolutely hated that scouts took at the top of the draft. We have one of them.
Reaches happen quite often. Anthony Richardson is one himself.. But we don't see many guys getting universally praised by the media and armchair QB's and then they fall in the draft. Then hey, turns out, they were right. Fans and media just ignore it and move on, but they make sure to bitch and moan during the Draft and all summer.
Richardson was a reach? Based on what? Guys who get praised by the media don’t fall in the draft? Aaron Rodgers?
The OL hasn't been that much better. It just hasn't. Thomas has helped settle some things down, but he also missed a chunk of one of those gams. The interior hasn't been good and neither has the RT.
Some of the sacks are on DeVito but the OL hasn't been a strength. Last week, the Giants had no yards rushing until the end of the 3rd quarter. DeVito didn't melt. He threw three TDs, something Jones hasn't done in four years.
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
And as I said above, no one on BBI seems to be any good at predicting it either. See Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, etc.
Comment was a bit tongue in cheek.
But seen enough of Nix in both conferences he played to conclude there is not much special in his game. His good stats this year has a lot to do with how Oregon runs their offense and some pretty bad defenses in West. And he still has a penchant for forcing bonehead throws anyway.
If going with one of the west coast QB prospects then go with one of the other guys that have more plus attributes.
Yes, idiots often align themselves accordingly. :-)
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
The way I look it at is this:
- Daniel Jones isn't the guy.
- He's been hurt five times in five years (twice this year).
- Giants are going to have a relatively high draft pick, plus a second 2nd rounder if they need to move up (including possibly moving up late in the 1st round).
- Half the fan base is calling for the head of the GM and HC already. You can say that doesn't matter, but it does.
- This looks like a good year to draft a QB. There maybe a half dozen who are viable NFL starters.
Seems kind of obvious to me.
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
I don't get the Pugh love. I don't think he has been good.
Quote:
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
Gettleman tended to react. For better of worse, Schoen has proven two drafts in a row that he will move to get the guy he wants. He traded up one spot to make sure he got Banks.
But there may be six quarterbacks in this draft who are better than Daniel Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Tommy DeVito.
Quote:
Thomas was out early, Pugh has helped, and other people are playing better. The line now is inconsistent, some good reps, some bad. But it was outright disaster earlier on. We can tell ourselves otherwise to help boost our point, but it's just not true.
I don't get the Pugh love. I don't think he has been good.
I can totally see it.
Nix is more interesting later on in the draft. He doesn't have any elite skills to warrant a lottery pick. But an investment in him on day two or early day three makes the idea more sellable.
Quote:
That doesn't happen.
But there may be six quarterbacks in this draft who are better than Daniel Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Tommy DeVito.
Quote:
In comment 16305170 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
Gettleman tended to react. For better of worse, Schoen has proven two drafts in a row that he will move to get the guy he wants. He traded up one spot to make sure he got Banks.
Quote:
If the Jones backers are worried about forcing a QB pick, what’s going to happen if Jones hurts his neck again next year and has to retire?
The Giants will have force a QB pick anyway. Why not do it when there’s a highly regarded class?
Everyone should be worried about forcing a pick. That's how Gettleman got us into this mess in the first place. Jones part II is not the answer, and that shouldn't even have to be stated.
You don’t know if he’s Jones Part 2 until you see if he’s taking live bullets. Caleb Williams could end up Ryan Lead or Peyton Manning. Jayden Daniels could be a better Lamar or be Daniel Jones Part 2. We can form opinions on who will be good and who won’t, but with QBs you can’t know for sure.
Gettleman forced a QB pick because he was too late on realizing they needed one. The Giants are unfortunately in a similar spot. I don’t consider it forcing it in a highly regarded class. They could miss, but they have to take the risk.
Yes, it would have been a huge mistake. Eli wasn't anywhere close to be done. In that position, the Giants should have gotten a king's ransom for the #1 pick and rebuilt an OL that was done (and still hasn't recovered). Why would the 2012 New York Giants want two franchise QBs?
In any case, Daniel Jones isn't coming off a Super Bowl victory, he's coming off an ACL injury; and Caleb Williams and Drake Maye aren't Andrew Luck and even if they were, the Giants won't be drafting in the top two or three. So putting history aside and given the Giants current circumstances, I don't see them waiting until Day 3 to draft a QB; so it really just comes down to where the QB prospects sit on their draft board compared to the prospects that fill other needs.
p.s.--The Chargers had a pretty good QB in Drew Brees, but fell in love with Phillip Rivers at the Senior Bowl (the Chargers coaching staff was coaching him at that game). Brees elevated his game, keeping Rivers on the bench for two years, but I think those years on the bench served him well and made for a more seamless transition from college to the NFL. The Giants could wind up following a similar model.
If Jordan Love keeps developing, 2020 produced five quality starters
Quote:
"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
Yup.
It's getting really weird.
What in the world has Daniel Jones done to engender this type of loyalty? He's 22-36-1 as a starter, with 62 TDs in five seasons with 40 INTs and 46 fumbles. Do the math. The numbers are comical.
You can be rest assured that both Dallas and Philly would have replaced their starting QB well before now if they were putting out that kind of product too! Wentz was highly drafted prospect had a few great moments in Philly and was quickly replaced. Dak Prescott, a 4th round pick, has had a very productive career, however it’s the post-season that has been his biggest issue. But you can argue that Dallas is in it every year because of him.
Majority of the fan base, I'd say probably over 90%, understand that Schoen is the right GM for this team and that Daboll is a good head coach.
Anyone who wants them fired already is either not thinking clearly or isn't invested in the long term success of the Giants, they just want someone to yell at every 2 years.
Sure, but the top 3 QBs in this draft are going to grade out as very good prospects. And if that’s the case, they have to take say Daniels at 5 even if he’s the #15 guy on their board. If they don’t someone behind them will
Quote:
That's why the scouts are flying to all these games. If a guy doesn't grade out, you don't draft him just because we need a QB. That goes for any position. The mindset can't be --get a QB at any cost. It has to be, get the right QB. Because without the right guy, this isn't going to change. In any draft class there are a limited number of guys who will pan out. In some classes, none of them do. No one knows for sure who will or who will not pan out, but the point is, it will be a pretty small number, so be smart.
Sure, but the top 3 QBs in this draft are going to grade out as very good prospects.
Great Blue North and DraftTek updated their draft boards on Thanksgiving Day, neither of them had Daniels in their Top 32, let alone their Top 5. I don't think we have any idea at this point how the QB prospects will fall in the 2024 draft. There will be a ton of shuffling between now and then, some based on new information, some based on misinformation.
Majority of the fan base, I'd say probably over 90%, understand that Schoen is the right GM for this team and that Daboll is a good head coach.
Anyone who wants them fired already is either not thinking clearly or isn't invested in the long term success of the Giants, they just want someone to yell at every 2 years.
Yeah, I'm all about baseless claims.
Viva Daniel Jones!
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That doesn't happen.
But there may be six quarterbacks in this draft who are better than Daniel Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Tommy DeVito.
Lol...6 better than Jones? Man...play the lottery if you're right, you'll win every time. And after a statement like that you call out people who don't want the Giants to do what Carolina did. Their team is fucked for a decade. I may be this "groupie" that you say (odd, coming from the biggest groupie I know in another line of work), but at least I don't have Dan Snyder Syndrome or Jerrah Jones Disease. With glaring needs at RT, RG, LG, OLB, S, CB, TE, WR, DT, and DE, you want to trade multiple 1sts and more for the CHANCE we get Peyton Manning II. Lol.
Sure, but the top 3 QBs in this draft are going to grade out as very good prospects.
How do you know that? From reading BBI?
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And if that’s the case, they have to take say Daniels at 5 even if he’s the #15 guy on their board.
And you're assuming Daniels is one of the three and worthy of a top five pick based on what? BBI? It's not as if you're watching 10 hours of college football a day and visiting with coaches and players every week.
Great Blue North and DraftTek updated their draft boards on Thanksgiving Day, neither of them had Daniels in their Top 32, let alone their Top 5. I don't think we have any idea at this point how the QB prospects will fall in the 2024 draft. There will be a ton of shuffling between now and then, some based on new information, some based on misinformation.
From seeing them play in person and talking to people in the business. I’ll take their opinions over fans that run a draft site, no disrespect to them. Every scout and agent I’ve spoken to thinks Daniels goes in the top 10 and possibly the top 5.
Even if he was, he can't stay on the football field.
He's never going to be good enough to close the gap with the Eagles and Cowboys.
Dragging this out longer than five years is just going to add to the pain, It happens. As my wife just said, stop drafting quarterbacks from Duke. It's a basketball school.
Even if he was, he can't stay on the football field.
He's never going to be good enough to close the gap with the Eagles and Cowboys.
Dragging this out longer than five years is just going to add to the pain, It happens. As my wife just said, stop drafting quarterbacks from Duke. It's a basketball school.
C'mon Eric. That's absurd. If it wasn't you Eric I'd think you were trolling BBI. Did Jones put the moves on your wife?
In four years, he has thrown 38 touchdowns passes (less than 10 per season). He has 40 INTs and 48 fumbles. He's won 22 games in five years.
His back-ups are playing just as well as he was.
Yeah, but I'm crazy. LOL
That's why they need to keep throwing darts until they get this right.
It works in reverse too though. There’s plenty of guys who “armchair GM’s” absolutely hated that scouts took at the top of the draft. We have one of them.
Schoen and Daboll aren't two clowns off the street. They didn't have to sign him to the contract they did, they could've easily tagged him. And I don't for a second buy into the narrative about pressure from ownership (a fiction based on nothing more than confirmation bias because it's easier to fool yourself into believing you know more football than John Mara than it is to believe you know more than Schoen & Daboll). I'd be surprised if they went from believing him worthy of his contract in February to being desperate to replace him in November.
Honestly don't understand why people are even saying it. It's purely coping.
In four years, he has thrown 38 touchdowns passes (less than 10 per season). He has 40 INTs and 48 fumbles. He's won 22 games in five years.
His back-ups are playing just as well as he was.
Yeah, but I'm crazy. LOL
Now Eric you know I'd never say you were crazy. Just wrong about Jones. Except his injuries.
Anyway, nothing meaningful is going to happen with or about DJ for months and there's nothing to add that's going to change anyone's mind. Personally I'm rooting for wins.
From seeing them play in person and talking to people in the business. I’ll take their opinions over fans that run a draft site, no disrespect to them. Every scout and agent I’ve spoken to thinks Daniels goes in the top 10 and possibly the top 5.
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Remember coaches, scouts and GMs view players differently than armchair QB's and people alike. It's become more evident year after year. Anthony Richardson shot up the draft board very high last year and he was unlike your typical first rounder. Good traits but raw and inaccurate as hell. And most got Dwayne Haskins wrong by a country mile. He was viewed by the media and fans as a top 6 pick. If Dan Snyder hadn't picked him, he probably falls out of the 1st round.
It works in reverse too though. There’s plenty of guys who “armchair GM’s” absolutely hated that scouts took at the top of the draft. We have one of them.
Reaches happen quite often. Anthony Richardson is one himself.. But we don't see many guys getting universally praised by the media and armchair QB's and then they fall in the draft. Then hey, turns out, they were right. Fans and media just ignore it and move on, but they make sure to bitch and moan during the Draft and all summer.
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From seeing them play in person and talking to people in the business. I’ll take their opinions over fans that run a draft site, no disrespect to them. Every scout and agent I’ve spoken to thinks Daniels goes in the top 10 and possibly the top 5.
I didn't realize you had the privilege of speaking with scouts and agents. Can you be more specific on what they had to say? I like the fact that Daniels is a 22-year old with five years of college experience, but too much of his production comes from running and he doesn't look big enough to sustain that at the NFL level.
Did you just write this with a straight face?
This year, Daniels has nearly 4K passing yard, 40 passing TDs against 4 INTs, a near 12 YPA and completes 72% of his passes. He does have 10 rushing TDs and 1K rushing.
He's 6'4", btw, with plenty of room to get bigger.
I don't mind legit criticism of a prospect, but posters need to wake up and really start paying more attention.
We have no proof that Bill Belichick is a good GM or evaluator of offensive players other than TEs.
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In comment 16305324 Toth029 said:
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Remember coaches, scouts and GMs view players differently than armchair QB's and people alike. It's become more evident year after year. Anthony Richardson shot up the draft board very high last year and he was unlike your typical first rounder. Good traits but raw and inaccurate as hell. And most got Dwayne Haskins wrong by a country mile. He was viewed by the media and fans as a top 6 pick. If Dan Snyder hadn't picked him, he probably falls out of the 1st round.
It works in reverse too though. There’s plenty of guys who “armchair GM’s” absolutely hated that scouts took at the top of the draft. We have one of them.
Reaches happen quite often. Anthony Richardson is one himself.. But we don't see many guys getting universally praised by the media and armchair QB's and then they fall in the draft. Then hey, turns out, they were right. Fans and media just ignore it and move on, but they make sure to bitch and moan during the Draft and all summer.
Richardson was a reach? Based on what? Guys who get praised by the media don’t fall in the draft? Aaron Rodgers?