but I think it highly likely Giants draft a QB high and am thinking likely in round 2. Not sure they would in round 1 at least where they currently sit at a draft position and I am not sure they would be willing to pay the price to move up. Based on the last two drafts I do have confidence in Schoen. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Schoen said all the right things today in my mind from what I have seen posted here.
It's really about 2025 just as much. Someone used the term "pivot" and that is the right word.
I'm becoming more convinced either Daniels (slight longshot now), Nix, Ewers, or McCarthy are going to be a Giant in the top 50-60 picks of the draft.
I don't see a trade up in first. But those two picks in the 2nd now are premium. Seahawks pick is looking like a solid bet for a top 50 pick now.
This is how I see it. I don't see Schoen pulling off a Panthers trade. It's not impossible assuming he really likes someone, but with $47M in cap charges committed to Jones in 2024, I don't see Schoen doing that.
Schoen strikes me as someone who is very aware of the financial advantages around utilizing a rookie QB's salary window. The roster still has holes, so mortgaging a ton to move up for Williams/Maye probably doesn't make sense given the $47M cap hit to Jones next year and the $22M dead cap charge in 2025 assuming he's released. Schoen sees what's happening in Carolina.
Credit to Terps because he's been on this. Christian too. I see this:
-Jones the QB when/if healthy
-Rookie QB drafted within the top 50 (possibly first round)
-DeVito
I think that's the QB room. The hope would be the QB drafted ends up being the starter and this regime found their guy. It'll be a competition with everyone.
I just don't see an expensive trade up. The roster isn't where it needs to be for that and it doesn't make sense financially. 2025 would be a different story since they'd be much more financially lean at QB.
The hatred of Daniel Jones has gotten to the point where you guys are actually arguing in favor of the thing that got Jones drafted by the Giants in the first place.
I'm sure Schoen will take a QB if he likes him and thinks he will absolutely be better than Jones.
But if he doesn't and takes WR, edge, or trades down, the Giants are not doomed and Schoen will not be fired.
Those two things can be accurate.
Your groupie status is showing again.
I don't hate Daniel Jones. He seems like a really sweet guy.
But he's not a good QB. Even fans who don't follow the game closely see it.
The hatred of Daniel Jones has gotten to the point where you guys are actually arguing in favor of the thing that got Jones drafted by the Giants in the first place.
Again, the decision to draft a QB in 2019 was sound. The error was in the evaluation of the player selected.
For example, say Giants are at 6th pick and New England says sure we will give you the 2nd pick.
How about both 2nds, 2025 1st, and a 2025 2nd?
Schoen might say yes. He also might say, eh, too rich, we will stay at 6 and be comfortable knowing we still have our assets in place. He might say, well, we aren't ready to contend yet, I'd rather keep all these picks, and adjust on QB next year.
It has happened before, plenty of times. And there are also teams who have done this and it completely backfired. Doesn't mean you don't do it, but it's not a guarantee.
Now if Caleb Williams is available at 2, I imagine Schoen says yes thanks, pleasure doing business.
RE: RE: I largely agree with everything Eric has said on this thread.
However, if Schoen doesn't like any of the quarterbacks in this draft I don't want him to force it. In that case I'd rather trade back or out of the first, accumulate draft capital for next year since we all know we'll be right back in the same boat looking for a QB next season. Unless Jones suddenly morphs into Joe Burrow, keeping him after next season doesn't make sense financially--even if he plays okay or even pretty good.
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
I don't disagree. They've put themselves in quite a difficult situation by royally fucking up the Jones contract. Schoen can say all the right things but he's made his life incredibly difficult: he either needs to draft a QB that he maybe doesn't love to buy himself more time or not take a QB knowing next season is going to be rough and he may not survive. That's why the trade down and out may be best option. Then even if they are terrible next year, he can argue he anticipated it and set the franchise up to restart without Jones.
Which is another head scratcher about the way this team is run. If they felt that strongly about Saquon (and wouldn't even consider trading him), why did they not give him the 3-year contract and Franchise Jones????!!!!
this is the mulligan id bet a lot of money they wish they had, and it was predictable from the moment they ended up not extending barkley and mike g reported barkley's asks as very reasonable (and less than what jonathan taylor ended up with).
now they are going to end up extending him for probably what taylor got or more, a year older.
Jones is not the answer but drafting a QB for the sake of drafting one is how you end up with a Jones. And then spend years making excuses for his play.
In fact how did that work out for the Jets?
Also keeping Neal at tackle is like keeping Jones as your starting qb. Admit the mistake and move on.
the Giants will either trade back into round 1 or they'll use on of their round 2 picks on a guy in the Nix, Penix, McCarthy tier.
Unless of course they can land one of the top 3 guys in round 1.
In hindsight, I thought we were a great destination for Hendon Hooker in last year's draft. Would've been nice.
The Giants trading for Hooker wouldn't shock me, honestly. I know they did their homework on him and the Lions might want a more immediate Super Bowl contributor.
What I'm saying is that Schoen and Daboll coached Jones and team to a playoff win in 2022.
Their mindset might be hey, we have a much better roster now, some things didn't go our way in 2023, we might not want to mortgage the future for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams. We also might not want to take a guy at 6 that is more of a project.
I don't know. All I'm saying is, to put a blanket statement that Giants need to draft a QB in round 1 or 2 or they will be fired is a pointless statement.
A) they won't be fired
B) they went to the playoffs in 2022
C) they don't want to force a QB
D) they might not want to mortgage everything, they have just gotten things in a decent direction with draft picks lately
All he needed to say was that Wink isn't going anywhere.
He chose not to.
I hear you, but it's Daboll. He never says anything like that and virtually never confirms or denies anything he doesn't have to. While there could be something there, Daboll has always been 100% consistent in addressing a question once - often saying next to nothing like "we spoke, that conversation will remain private" and repeat it until reporters stop digging.
I think Schoen is pretty damn transparent and accountable and his comments put serious doubt into this whole story. It could be Daboll was unhappy with Wink's handling of the X situation (I didn't like how he handled it) and it's a snowballing game of telephone with inevitable media exaggeration and/or distortion from there. The friction narrative always comes up with losing teams; that creates smoke but doesn't mean fire.
With a potential future star QB. If they run it back with jones, DeVito and a scrap heap QB they’re not going to be a good team, and if they’re as bad as this year Schoen won’t have a job.
You don’t get to screw up the Jones contract, not have the solution to that mistake on the roster and have back to back unwatchable seasons. I think Schoen is the right man for the job, but unfortunately that’s just not how the business works.
Worst thing you can do at this point in time is take a QB just because.
Daniel Jones was a 1st round prospect by almost any measure and the first year Daboll had him, he played well and they won a playoff game. Things didn't go their way this year, it happened, it was shitty. I'm sure everyone is pissed about it.
If they are ready to give up on Jones they'll take a QB. If they aren't quite there yet and the QBs available do not match the grade and there are stud edge or WRs sitting there, they should select that player.
RE: RE: I largely agree with everything Eric has said on this thread.
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
wrong way to look at it.
they survive by playing whoever is the best player they can get at qb, and not getting mauled by those teams.
they will add someone they like this year - and logic dictates that will be a draft pick and not a free agent since they already put so much cap into the position.
events have aligned to spend a high pick on a QB if there's one available to them that they like, and it happens to be a good QB draft, so it will probably be a first round pick whether it's their first or a trade up from their 2nd back into the first. but i think it would be a mistake to totally write off jones based on this year's small sample in impossible circumstances. whether or not he's healthy is a big question but if he is it's possible he's still the best option to not get mauled by those teams.
RE: RE: I largely agree with everything Eric has said on this thread.
However, if Schoen doesn't like any of the quarterbacks in this draft I don't want him to force it. In that case I'd rather trade back or out of the first, accumulate draft capital for next year since we all know we'll be right back in the same boat looking for a QB next season. Unless Jones suddenly morphs into Joe Burrow, keeping him after next season doesn't make sense financially--even if he plays okay or even pretty good.
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
Yeah, I really hope they're looking comprehensively at this and are not fixated on one QB they 'love.' They are not in a place to be very picky.
"It would be malpractice if Gettleman doesn't go QB at 6 or 17" is what we said in 2019.
Again - you guys are freaking out because Jones didn't play well and then tore his knee.
Compounding that problem by taking a QB just to take one would be stupid, and not how you should run a franchise.
Schoen will take a QB in round 1 or 2 if he believes that QB can be, or will be, significantly better than Daniel Jones. If not, he will continue to take the best players available at their draft position to continue to add talent to this team that needs talent badly.
Just because you don't draft a QB in a specific year doesn't mean your franchise is doomed and you take your ball and go home. Giants can pivot with a veteran if they'd like or even go towards 2025 if they choose to not take a quarterback high in the draft.
What is so hard to understand about this.
A rookie QB does not need to be "significantly" better than Jones because his contract will allow for more flexibility with the rest of the roster. If a college QB right now is simply as good as Jones, he will cost less and also likely develop to be better than Jones, so it will likely be worth the pick. You have to account for cost (as well as opportunity cost, b/c if we take a QB, that means we're not drafting someone else. Similarly, if we stick with Jones for 3 more years, that's a ton of money that does not go to other players.)
It showed our receivers create the most separation in the NFL
DeVito & Taylor both showed if they have a quick trigger they can hit those open guys
Yes the OL eliminates a lot of waiting for guys to ‘appear’ more open & eliminates the luxury of having some delay in the qb processing - and there are times where it’s a full blown jail break (I realize this)
That being said… Taylor & DeVito are nothing special. They get the ball out quicker than Jones & throw guys open on occasion.
I mean Hyatt is open nearby every go route just lead the guy.
They need a qb who has a quick trigger like Devito or Taylor and processes and makes that decision quickly & airs it out. They’re out there. It doesn’t have to be Williams or Maye. It could be Nix or Daniels or… who knows.
*Add to this the fact that they have played as well as or better than Jones and both make between 35-40mm less than Jones will this year
Jones has all the physical talent to be a good QB in the NFL
Yeah, and everyone said that going into 2022. And then they were a pretty solid team that made the playoffs until getting killed by a superior team on the road.
We all thought they'd be improved this year, and that didn't happen.
Predicting what a team will be is pretty pointless. It depends on a lot of factors. Schedule, injury luck, and play. Unfortunately those 3 things were all negatives this year.
front and center , as always . But what I would have asked Schoen is this: Both the Cowboys and Eagles have gotten significantly better than the Giants while on your watch . Obviously both teams made astute off-season moves including adroit draft decisions . It feels like they are in another universe from the Giants . Do you think that’s a fair appraisal about your performance so far ?
Who cares about questions concerning Neal and Jones . He’s not going to be candid about either . But what’s important to me is they fell way behind . If he wants to hide behind the “This is a young team that has many promising players “ line, let him do so .
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
wrong way to look at it.
they survive by playing whoever is the best player they can get at qb, and not getting mauled by those teams.
they will add someone they like this year - and logic dictates that will be a draft pick and not a free agent since they already put so much cap into the position.
events have aligned to spend a high pick on a QB if there's one available to them that they like, and it happens to be a good QB draft, so it will probably be a first round pick whether it's their first or a trade up from their 2nd back into the first. but i think it would be a mistake to totally write off jones based on this year's small sample in impossible circumstances. whether or not he's healthy is a big question but if he is it's possible he's still the best option to not get mauled by those teams.
This is a well-reasoned opinion. (It therefore may not belong here.)
Schoen and Daboll don't strike me as the types of guys who make decisions scared. I believe they would risk their jobs if they thought it gave the Giants a good chance to be better. (I could be wrong.)
Also, aren't their contracts guaranteed? I realize that getting fired affects future employment prospects, but both guys have guaranteed multiple millions coming their way regardless, so I suspect they're less worried about losing their jobs than we may think.
Yeah, and everyone said that going into 2022. And then they were a pretty solid team that made the playoffs until getting killed by a superior team on the road.
We all thought they'd be improved this year, and that didn't happen.
Predicting what a team will be is pretty pointless. It depends on a lot of factors. Schedule, injury luck, and play. Unfortunately those 3 things were all negatives this year.
I thought they'd be good in 2022 and also thought Jones would have a solid year. To me, any prediction of Jones bouncing back in 2024 has the vibe of the "2018 Eli revenge tour" stuff we heard back then. Jones looked out to lunch this season and his ceiling is already pretty limited. Defenders made a beeline to him on the RPO plays (like they are doing across the league) and so it's hard to imagine his running picking up the slack.
In 2024 - like in 2023 - the Giants are going to have a math problem with their schedule. Four very difficult games against the AFC Central, plus 4 games again against the Eagles and Cowboys. This leaves almost no margin for error if you aren't getting at least average QB play.
The Giants also should be concerned about the Commanders. If Josh Harris runs the team like he does the Sixers, that will be a 10 or 11 win team on their schedule twice a year and the equation gets even more difficult.
the Giants will either trade back into round 1 or they'll use on of their round 2 picks on a guy in the Nix, Penix, McCarthy tier.
Unless of course they can land one of the top 3 guys in round 1.
In hindsight, I thought we were a great destination for Hendon Hooker in last year's draft. Would've been nice.
The Giants trading for Hooker wouldn't shock me, honestly. I know they did their homework on him and the Lions might want a more immediate Super Bowl contributor.
I think this is an interesting suggestion. I also would look at Justin Fields, who is due his 5th year rookie extension decision next spring. Fields has some of the physical characteristics that make him an interesting Daboll QB prospect. He might be available for pretty limited draft capital (3rd rounder?).
Yeah, and everyone said that going into 2022. And then they were a pretty solid team that made the playoffs until getting killed by a superior team on the road.
We all thought they'd be improved this year, and that didn't happen.
Predicting what a team will be is pretty pointless. It depends on a lot of factors. Schedule, injury luck, and play. Unfortunately those 3 things were all negatives this year.
Man, why are you so obsessed with everything I say?
The Giants weren’t a good team last year, all the secondary metrics agree. They snuck by with a lot of smoke and mirrors, turnover luck and winning a statisticallly improbable amount of 1 score games. The Giants team we saw early in the season was the same team we saw in the Seahawks, Lions, and Eagles games last year. One without a QB and one that can’t score points.
It turns out the 2022 season was one of the most detrimental seasons in recent memory. If those one score games go the other way, the Giants aren’t paying Jones and are likely heading into year two of developing their new QB, with more cap space and a top pick to add to a developing roster. Instead they’re saddled with a cap hit of over $20 million until 2025 for a QB who will likely be a backup.
Schoen and Daboll don't strike me as the types of guys who make decisions scared. I believe they would risk their jobs if they thought it gave the Giants a good chance to be better. (I could be wrong.)
Also, aren't their contracts guaranteed? I realize that getting fired affects future employment prospects, but both guys have guaranteed multiple millions coming their way regardless, so I suspect they're less worried about losing their jobs than we may think.
And yet if Tyrod Taylor is healthy, he likely returns to the starting job. Why? Not because it's in the long-term interest of the team, but because Daboll is thinking about his job security.
Giants fans will not tolerate another wasted season with Daniel Jones.
They will demand Schoen and Daboll get fired. The stadium will be empty. And Mara will have to react again.
You won't accept this because you think Daniel Jones is still getting a raw deal.
Giants fans want to win, like all others.
The Giants coaches and FO want to win, like all others, because their jobs depend on it.
If the giants lose big again in this regimes year 3 it won't matter whether the QB is Daniel Jones, Bryce Young, or whoever this year's Bryce Young is. People will get fired.
There is no doubt they are going to add another QB - and i'd also say there's no doubt they will play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win because their jobs will be riding on that. They themselves wont know who that is until next Sept/Oct so trying to declare who that is (or isnt) right now is beyond pointless.
The Giants can draft whomever they want and if it is a QB and they do not fix the damn OL that person will get killed too. It's not as simple as Jones or Taylor or DeVito hold the ball too long--it's that they are shell-shocked from getting hit repeatedly in games. People can look at this OL and see it cannot pass protect and on most attempts the run blocking is not much better. Fix the OL please.
Giants fans will not tolerate another wasted season with Daniel Jones.
They will demand Schoen and Daboll get fired. The stadium will be empty. And Mara will have to react again.
You won't accept this because you think Daniel Jones is still getting a raw deal.
Again, failing to understand my point, as always. I don't think Daniel Jones is getting a raw deal. I think he has shown he can play and had a shitty year and then tore his knee. If you are committed to Schoen and Daboll's rebuild, you'd also understand that the Giants are getting their shit kicked in in the trenches, and are clearly not ready to compete with Dallas and Philly. You'd also understand that they still have severe needs on both OL, DL, and at WR. They have 1 good pass rusher who happens to be one of the best in the league at that. They have 1 good interior DL who is the best in the league.
The Giants turning this around is not just about QB. If they like one better than Jones this year at their slot, they'll take one.
If they don't, they are committed to taking pro bowl talented players. Schoen clearly has an eye for talent as his draft picks have been pretty good.
Whether Jones is the QB or not in 2024 - I couldn't give a shit about it. I want them to have the best QB they can have for 2024 but also realize that if it doesn't matchup with value or they have to mortgage the future to do it, and they decide not to, I'll accept it.
There's a difference between being a DJ groupie and being a rational fan that wants Schoen and Daboll to do what they actually want to do. And if they choose to forgo QB, I accept that it what they want to do and I'm good with it.
Which is another head scratcher about the way this team is run. If they felt that strongly about Saquon (and wouldn't even consider trading him), why did they not give him the 3-year contract and Franchise Jones????!!!!
The Giants can draft whomever they want and if it is a QB and they do not fix the damn OL that person will get killed too. It's not as simple as Jones or Taylor or DeVito hold the ball too long--it's that they are shell-shocked from getting hit repeatedly in games. People can look at this OL and see it cannot pass protect and on most attempts the run blocking is not much better. Fix the OL please.
Valid, but you still need the QB. Dave Brown had a really solid OL in front of him.
That said, the reporters dropped the ball on the OL. There should have been more questions about the OL than just Neal.
Nope, I'm giving my opinion which you guys clearly don't seem to understand.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10-12 QB in football. If Giants want to continue building the team and don't choose to take a QB where they draft, I'm sure Schoen will have his reasons for doing so.
If Jones is the QB next year and sucks again, the Giants will have drafted *hopefully* good players in the 2024 draft, and they can pivot to QB if need be.
I'm becoming more convinced either Daniels (slight longshot now), Nix, Ewers, or McCarthy are going to be a Giant in the top 50-60 picks of the draft.
I don't see a trade up in first. But those two picks in the 2nd now are premium. Seahawks pick is looking like a solid bet for a top 50 pick now.
This is how I see it. I don't see Schoen pulling off a Panthers trade. It's not impossible assuming he really likes someone, but with $47M in cap charges committed to Jones in 2024, I don't see Schoen doing that.
Schoen strikes me as someone who is very aware of the financial advantages around utilizing a rookie QB's salary window. The roster still has holes, so mortgaging a ton to move up for Williams/Maye probably doesn't make sense given the $47M cap hit to Jones next year and the $22M dead cap charge in 2025 assuming he's released. Schoen sees what's happening in Carolina.
Credit to Terps because he's been on this. Christian too. I see this:
-Jones the QB when/if healthy
-Rookie QB drafted within the top 50 (possibly first round)
-DeVito
I think that's the QB room. The hope would be the QB drafted ends up being the starter and this regime found their guy. It'll be a competition with everyone.
I just don't see an expensive trade up. The roster isn't where it needs to be for that and it doesn't make sense financially. 2025 would be a different story since they'd be much more financially lean at QB.
I'm sure Schoen will take a QB if he likes him and thinks he will absolutely be better than Jones.
But if he doesn't and takes WR, edge, or trades down, the Giants are not doomed and Schoen will not be fired.
Those two things can be accurate.
Your groupie status is showing again.
I don't hate Daniel Jones. He seems like a really sweet guy.
But he's not a good QB. Even fans who don't follow the game closely see it.
Again, the decision to draft a QB in 2019 was sound. The error was in the evaluation of the player selected.
How about both 2nds, 2025 1st, and a 2025 2nd?
Schoen might say yes. He also might say, eh, too rich, we will stay at 6 and be comfortable knowing we still have our assets in place. He might say, well, we aren't ready to contend yet, I'd rather keep all these picks, and adjust on QB next year.
It has happened before, plenty of times. And there are also teams who have done this and it completely backfired. Doesn't mean you don't do it, but it's not a guarantee.
Now if Caleb Williams is available at 2, I imagine Schoen says yes thanks, pleasure doing business.
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However, if Schoen doesn't like any of the quarterbacks in this draft I don't want him to force it. In that case I'd rather trade back or out of the first, accumulate draft capital for next year since we all know we'll be right back in the same boat looking for a QB next season. Unless Jones suddenly morphs into Joe Burrow, keeping him after next season doesn't make sense financially--even if he plays okay or even pretty good.
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
I don't disagree. They've put themselves in quite a difficult situation by royally fucking up the Jones contract. Schoen can say all the right things but he's made his life incredibly difficult: he either needs to draft a QB that he maybe doesn't love to buy himself more time or not take a QB knowing next season is going to be rough and he may not survive. That's why the trade down and out may be best option. Then even if they are terrible next year, he can argue he anticipated it and set the franchise up to restart without Jones.
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Is that Joe sounds bullish on #26.
Yup.
Which is another head scratcher about the way this team is run. If they felt that strongly about Saquon (and wouldn't even consider trading him), why did they not give him the 3-year contract and Franchise Jones????!!!!
this is the mulligan id bet a lot of money they wish they had, and it was predictable from the moment they ended up not extending barkley and mike g reported barkley's asks as very reasonable (and less than what jonathan taylor ended up with).
now they are going to end up extending him for probably what taylor got or more, a year older.
Jones is not the answer but drafting a QB for the sake of drafting one is how you end up with a Jones. And then spend years making excuses for his play.
In fact how did that work out for the Jets?
Also keeping Neal at tackle is like keeping Jones as your starting qb. Admit the mistake and move on.
Unless of course they can land one of the top 3 guys in round 1.
In hindsight, I thought we were a great destination for Hendon Hooker in last year's draft. Would've been nice.
Unless of course they can land one of the top 3 guys in round 1.
In hindsight, I thought we were a great destination for Hendon Hooker in last year's draft. Would've been nice.
The Giants trading for Hooker wouldn't shock me, honestly. I know they did their homework on him and the Lions might want a more immediate Super Bowl contributor.
What I'm saying is that Schoen and Daboll coached Jones and team to a playoff win in 2022.
Their mindset might be hey, we have a much better roster now, some things didn't go our way in 2023, we might not want to mortgage the future for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams. We also might not want to take a guy at 6 that is more of a project.
I don't know. All I'm saying is, to put a blanket statement that Giants need to draft a QB in round 1 or 2 or they will be fired is a pointless statement.
A) they won't be fired
B) they went to the playoffs in 2022
C) they don't want to force a QB
D) they might not want to mortgage everything, they have just gotten things in a decent direction with draft picks lately
He chose not to.
I hear you, but it's Daboll. He never says anything like that and virtually never confirms or denies anything he doesn't have to. While there could be something there, Daboll has always been 100% consistent in addressing a question once - often saying next to nothing like "we spoke, that conversation will remain private" and repeat it until reporters stop digging.
I think Schoen is pretty damn transparent and accountable and his comments put serious doubt into this whole story. It could be Daboll was unhappy with Wink's handling of the X situation (I didn't like how he handled it) and it's a snowballing game of telephone with inevitable media exaggeration and/or distortion from there. The friction narrative always comes up with losing teams; that creates smoke but doesn't mean fire.
Like everything else, time will tell.
Schoen has a difficult task to get a new QB while getting his OL and DL up to snuff.
Swagger is one of the dumbest assets to try and quantify.
You don’t get to screw up the Jones contract, not have the solution to that mistake on the roster and have back to back unwatchable seasons. I think Schoen is the right man for the job, but unfortunately that’s just not how the business works.
Daniel Jones was a 1st round prospect by almost any measure and the first year Daboll had him, he played well and they won a playoff game. Things didn't go their way this year, it happened, it was shitty. I'm sure everyone is pissed about it.
If they are ready to give up on Jones they'll take a QB. If they aren't quite there yet and the QBs available do not match the grade and there are stud edge or WRs sitting there, they should select that player.
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
wrong way to look at it.
they survive by playing whoever is the best player they can get at qb, and not getting mauled by those teams.
they will add someone they like this year - and logic dictates that will be a draft pick and not a free agent since they already put so much cap into the position.
events have aligned to spend a high pick on a QB if there's one available to them that they like, and it happens to be a good QB draft, so it will probably be a first round pick whether it's their first or a trade up from their 2nd back into the first. but i think it would be a mistake to totally write off jones based on this year's small sample in impossible circumstances. whether or not he's healthy is a big question but if he is it's possible he's still the best option to not get mauled by those teams.
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However, if Schoen doesn't like any of the quarterbacks in this draft I don't want him to force it. In that case I'd rather trade back or out of the first, accumulate draft capital for next year since we all know we'll be right back in the same boat looking for a QB next season. Unless Jones suddenly morphs into Joe Burrow, keeping him after next season doesn't make sense financially--even if he plays okay or even pretty good.
Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
Yeah, I really hope they're looking comprehensively at this and are not fixated on one QB they 'love.' They are not in a place to be very picky.
Again - you guys are freaking out because Jones didn't play well and then tore his knee.
Compounding that problem by taking a QB just to take one would be stupid, and not how you should run a franchise.
Schoen will take a QB in round 1 or 2 if he believes that QB can be, or will be, significantly better than Daniel Jones. If not, he will continue to take the best players available at their draft position to continue to add talent to this team that needs talent badly.
Just because you don't draft a QB in a specific year doesn't mean your franchise is doomed and you take your ball and go home. Giants can pivot with a veteran if they'd like or even go towards 2025 if they choose to not take a quarterback high in the draft.
What is so hard to understand about this.
A rookie QB does not need to be "significantly" better than Jones because his contract will allow for more flexibility with the rest of the roster. If a college QB right now is simply as good as Jones, he will cost less and also likely develop to be better than Jones, so it will likely be worth the pick. You have to account for cost (as well as opportunity cost, b/c if we take a QB, that means we're not drafting someone else. Similarly, if we stick with Jones for 3 more years, that's a ton of money that does not go to other players.)
DeVito & Taylor both showed if they have a quick trigger they can hit those open guys
Yes the OL eliminates a lot of waiting for guys to ‘appear’ more open & eliminates the luxury of having some delay in the qb processing - and there are times where it’s a full blown jail break (I realize this)
That being said… Taylor & DeVito are nothing special. They get the ball out quicker than Jones & throw guys open on occasion.
I mean Hyatt is open nearby every go route just lead the guy.
They need a qb who has a quick trigger like Devito or Taylor and processes and makes that decision quickly & airs it out. They’re out there. It doesn’t have to be Williams or Maye. It could be Nix or Daniels or… who knows.
*Add to this the fact that they have played as well as or better than Jones and both make between 35-40mm less than Jones will this year
The problem is in between his ears. IMO he simply doesn't process information fast enough.
Yeah, and everyone said that going into 2022. And then they were a pretty solid team that made the playoffs until getting killed by a superior team on the road.
We all thought they'd be improved this year, and that didn't happen.
Predicting what a team will be is pretty pointless. It depends on a lot of factors. Schedule, injury luck, and play. Unfortunately those 3 things were all negatives this year.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Who cares about questions concerning Neal and Jones . He’s not going to be candid about either . But what’s important to me is they fell way behind . If he wants to hide behind the “This is a young team that has many promising players “ line, let him do so .
It's not that difficult.
Quoted for excellence.
Especially given their need for OL, WR, Edge etc
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Completely absurd logic.
just a thought
That would be an insane level of drama to invite just to smoke out a rat.
Especially when the most likely rats are those with ownership interest.
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Agree. But again, how does Schoen and Daboll survive getting mauled by the Eagles and Cowboys again with Daniel Jones at QB? The entire fan base would be calling for their heads, just like McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge.
So task of both is to identify 3-4 quarterbacks they really like, and then maneuver to get one. If they don't, I doubt they survive.
wrong way to look at it.
they survive by playing whoever is the best player they can get at qb, and not getting mauled by those teams.
they will add someone they like this year - and logic dictates that will be a draft pick and not a free agent since they already put so much cap into the position.
events have aligned to spend a high pick on a QB if there's one available to them that they like, and it happens to be a good QB draft, so it will probably be a first round pick whether it's their first or a trade up from their 2nd back into the first. but i think it would be a mistake to totally write off jones based on this year's small sample in impossible circumstances. whether or not he's healthy is a big question but if he is it's possible he's still the best option to not get mauled by those teams.
This is a well-reasoned opinion. (It therefore may not belong here.)
You can't win without a QB.
The Giants don't have a QB.
Giants fans will not tolerate another wasted season with Daniel Jones.
They will demand Schoen and Daboll get fired. The stadium will be empty. And Mara will have to react again.
You won't accept this because you think Daniel Jones is still getting a raw deal.
What I think will happen is Schoen will draft a quarterback on the second round, because that is a more tenable course of action for ownership.
Also, aren't their contracts guaranteed? I realize that getting fired affects future employment prospects, but both guys have guaranteed multiple millions coming their way regardless, so I suspect they're less worried about losing their jobs than we may think.
And as always, you fail to understand what I'm saying.
Yeah, and everyone said that going into 2022. And then they were a pretty solid team that made the playoffs until getting killed by a superior team on the road.
We all thought they'd be improved this year, and that didn't happen.
Predicting what a team will be is pretty pointless. It depends on a lot of factors. Schedule, injury luck, and play. Unfortunately those 3 things were all negatives this year.
I thought they'd be good in 2022 and also thought Jones would have a solid year. To me, any prediction of Jones bouncing back in 2024 has the vibe of the "2018 Eli revenge tour" stuff we heard back then. Jones looked out to lunch this season and his ceiling is already pretty limited. Defenders made a beeline to him on the RPO plays (like they are doing across the league) and so it's hard to imagine his running picking up the slack.
In 2024 - like in 2023 - the Giants are going to have a math problem with their schedule. Four very difficult games against the AFC Central, plus 4 games again against the Eagles and Cowboys. This leaves almost no margin for error if you aren't getting at least average QB play.
The Giants also should be concerned about the Commanders. If Josh Harris runs the team like he does the Sixers, that will be a 10 or 11 win team on their schedule twice a year and the equation gets even more difficult.
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the Giants will either trade back into round 1 or they'll use on of their round 2 picks on a guy in the Nix, Penix, McCarthy tier.
Unless of course they can land one of the top 3 guys in round 1.
In hindsight, I thought we were a great destination for Hendon Hooker in last year's draft. Would've been nice.
The Giants trading for Hooker wouldn't shock me, honestly. I know they did their homework on him and the Lions might want a more immediate Super Bowl contributor.
I think this is an interesting suggestion. I also would look at Justin Fields, who is due his 5th year rookie extension decision next spring. Fields has some of the physical characteristics that make him an interesting Daboll QB prospect. He might be available for pretty limited draft capital (3rd rounder?).
Yeah, and everyone said that going into 2022. And then they were a pretty solid team that made the playoffs until getting killed by a superior team on the road.
We all thought they'd be improved this year, and that didn't happen.
Predicting what a team will be is pretty pointless. It depends on a lot of factors. Schedule, injury luck, and play. Unfortunately those 3 things were all negatives this year.
Man, why are you so obsessed with everything I say?
The Giants weren’t a good team last year, all the secondary metrics agree. They snuck by with a lot of smoke and mirrors, turnover luck and winning a statisticallly improbable amount of 1 score games. The Giants team we saw early in the season was the same team we saw in the Seahawks, Lions, and Eagles games last year. One without a QB and one that can’t score points.
It turns out the 2022 season was one of the most detrimental seasons in recent memory. If those one score games go the other way, the Giants aren’t paying Jones and are likely heading into year two of developing their new QB, with more cap space and a top pick to add to a developing roster. Instead they’re saddled with a cap hit of over $20 million until 2025 for a QB who will likely be a backup.
Also, aren't their contracts guaranteed? I realize that getting fired affects future employment prospects, but both guys have guaranteed multiple millions coming their way regardless, so I suspect they're less worried about losing their jobs than we may think.
And yet if Tyrod Taylor is healthy, he likely returns to the starting job. Why? Not because it's in the long-term interest of the team, but because Daboll is thinking about his job security.
You can't win without a QB.
The Giants don't have a QB.
Giants fans will not tolerate another wasted season with Daniel Jones.
They will demand Schoen and Daboll get fired. The stadium will be empty. And Mara will have to react again.
You won't accept this because you think Daniel Jones is still getting a raw deal.
Giants fans want to win, like all others.
The Giants coaches and FO want to win, like all others, because their jobs depend on it.
If the giants lose big again in this regimes year 3 it won't matter whether the QB is Daniel Jones, Bryce Young, or whoever this year's Bryce Young is. People will get fired.
There is no doubt they are going to add another QB - and i'd also say there's no doubt they will play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win because their jobs will be riding on that. They themselves wont know who that is until next Sept/Oct so trying to declare who that is (or isnt) right now is beyond pointless.
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Find someone who loves you the way ryanmkeane loves Daniel Jones
And as always, you fail to understand what I'm saying.
I love how you are unsuccessfully trying to play both sides of this.
You're not fooling anyone.
That's obvious.
You can't win without a QB.
The Giants don't have a QB.
Giants fans will not tolerate another wasted season with Daniel Jones.
They will demand Schoen and Daboll get fired. The stadium will be empty. And Mara will have to react again.
You won't accept this because you think Daniel Jones is still getting a raw deal.
Again, failing to understand my point, as always. I don't think Daniel Jones is getting a raw deal. I think he has shown he can play and had a shitty year and then tore his knee. If you are committed to Schoen and Daboll's rebuild, you'd also understand that the Giants are getting their shit kicked in in the trenches, and are clearly not ready to compete with Dallas and Philly. You'd also understand that they still have severe needs on both OL, DL, and at WR. They have 1 good pass rusher who happens to be one of the best in the league at that. They have 1 good interior DL who is the best in the league.
The Giants turning this around is not just about QB. If they like one better than Jones this year at their slot, they'll take one.
If they don't, they are committed to taking pro bowl talented players. Schoen clearly has an eye for talent as his draft picks have been pretty good.
Whether Jones is the QB or not in 2024 - I couldn't give a shit about it. I want them to have the best QB they can have for 2024 but also realize that if it doesn't matchup with value or they have to mortgage the future to do it, and they decide not to, I'll accept it.
There's a difference between being a DJ groupie and being a rational fan that wants Schoen and Daboll to do what they actually want to do. And if they choose to forgo QB, I accept that it what they want to do and I'm good with it.
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Is that Joe sounds bullish on #26.
Yup.
Which is another head scratcher about the way this team is run. If they felt that strongly about Saquon (and wouldn't even consider trading him), why did they not give him the 3-year contract and Franchise Jones????!!!!
There wasn't enough cap space to franchise Jones.
Valid, but you still need the QB. Dave Brown had a really solid OL in front of him.
That said, the reporters dropped the ball on the OL. There should have been more questions about the OL than just Neal.
Nope, I'm giving my opinion which you guys clearly don't seem to understand.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10-12 QB in football. If Giants want to continue building the team and don't choose to take a QB where they draft, I'm sure Schoen will have his reasons for doing so.
If Jones is the QB next year and sucks again, the Giants will have drafted *hopefully* good players in the 2024 draft, and they can pivot to QB if need be.
Oh yeah, and what's that?