What I'd like to see happen is Schoen trade up on the first round and draft Daniels. Even if that comes at a high cost.
What I think will happen is Schoen will draft a quarterback on the second round, because that is a more tenable course of action for ownership.
i would bet on round 1 for the 5th year option. if there is someone they like with a 2nd round pick, it's in their interest to move up to pick #32 to take them so they get the extra year.
whether that's with their top 10 pick or a trade up from the 2nd round i think depends on who is available with the top 10 pick (duh). assuming they aren't in the top 2 picks, i could see them not wanting to pass on a harrison or malik nabers and then trying to move up for whoever the qb4/5 is since this draft has some interesting options. i wouldnt be surprised with daniels or penix going high or being this year's versions of kenny pickett. there is going to be some rightful skepticism of 5th year breakouts.
Nope, I'm giving my opinion which you guys clearly don't seem to understand.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10-12 QB in football. If Giants want to continue building the team and don't choose to take a QB where they draft, I'm sure Schoen will have his reasons for doing so.
If Jones is the QB next year and sucks again, the Giants will have drafted *hopefully* good players in the 2024 draft, and they can pivot to QB if need be.
Even if the Giants did have some optimism for Jones, they can't put their eggs in the Jones basket. The injuries alone make that a massive gamble, let alone the obvious lack of production.
Nope, I'm giving my opinion which you guys clearly don't seem to understand.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10-12 QB in football. If Giants want to continue building the team and don't choose to take a QB where they draft, I'm sure Schoen will have his reasons for doing so.
If Jones is the QB next year and sucks again, the Giants will have drafted *hopefully* good players in the 2024 draft, and they can pivot to QB if need be.
If they don't take a QB and don't trade for assets in next year's draft, Schoen/Daboll are betting their careers on Daniel Jones. They may very well do that, but it's an enormous risk. If he has another awful year and any of the QB's in this draft that are picked after us have promising rookie seasons, they'll be fired the day after the season is over.
RE: How many more years until Jones is a top 10 QB?
They could use a lot more impact players and then they can address the QB spot later in the draft and again in a following year or even later if needed.
I would have liked someone to ask Schoen about being outscored 89-17 in the two Dallas games and a few other tough questions.
You simply won't accept Daniel Jones isn't good. You've admitted it yourself. So of course you're going to argue for "BPA."
But you've always been that way with all things Giants related, be it whomever was the GM, HC, certain player, etc. I remember you telling us how great Gettleman was.
1. Giants don't draft a QB in round 1 - Schoen doesn't know what he's doing, Mara is meddling, Daboll will be fired
2. Giants draft a QB in round 2 - clearly this is Mara meddling, they waited because now Jones doesn't have as much competition
3. Giants don't draft a QB at all - wow the entire front office needs to go
So essentially - anything other than a QB high in round 1 is a disaster - which flies in the face of team building and evidence based drafts where at times you can argue it is the opposite of what you should do if you don't have conviction on a guy
Pretend for a moment that Jones is a good quarterback. If he were, it would make little sense to draft his replacement in April 2024. Signing a veteran (Tannehill, Mariota, Darnold, Minshew, etc.) to hold down the fort until Jones is ready to go - that would make sense. Maybe you pair that with a mid-round QB selection, but you've already got a developing young guy in the building.
Controlling for whether or not Jones is a good player, the timeline doesn't make sense for drafting a first round QB.
It's not what I would do (I would find out where Daniels is slated to be drafted and use whatever resource necessary to get him), but all that matters is what Schoen will do.
You need to be able to make explosive plays to win
Jones has not shown to be able to do that. Possibly he's grown gun shy, but we've seen more of them from Taylor and Devito. Maybe seeing them will help him, but there is no way in hell anyone can gamble their career on that happening.
Well, he was 6th in the NFL in QBR in 2022. Did you catch that?
Should we extrapolate from 2022? Or 2021? Or what? The Jones contract was predicated on him playing at the same level as at the end of 2022 which, to me, was the only time Jones looked like a good starting QB. Those hopes have been dashed. We have no idea what to expect from him in the future.
You simply won't accept Daniel Jones isn't good. You've admitted it yourself. So of course you're going to argue for "BPA."
But you've always been that way with all things Giants related, be it whomever was the GM, HC, certain player, etc. I remember you telling us how great Gettleman was.
Wrong again. Saying things just to say them does not make them true Eric.
I hated the Shurmur hire. Thought he would be awful and he was. I preached patience with DG because I thought his draft picks were pretty good, clearly his FA were awful, and then I came around and said yeah, it didn't work, he needs to go.
RE: I think it's important to try to see this through Schoen's eyes
Pretend for a moment that Jones is a good quarterback. If he were, it would make little sense to draft his replacement in April 2024. Signing a veteran (Tannehill, Mariota, Darnold, Minshew, etc.) to hold down the fort until Jones is ready to go - that would make sense. Maybe you pair that with a mid-round QB selection, but you've already got a developing young guy in the building.
Controlling for whether or not Jones is a good player, the timeline doesn't make sense for drafting a first round QB.
It's not what I would do (I would find out where Daniels is slated to be drafted and use whatever resource necessary to get him), but all that matters is what Schoen will do.
Yes.
If you go back to Jones, you sign a decent veteran for insurance to play until Jones is healthy. You don't draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round.
1. Giants don't draft a QB in round 1 - Schoen doesn't know what he's doing, Mara is meddling, Daboll will be fired
2. Giants draft a QB in round 2 - clearly this is Mara meddling, they waited because now Jones doesn't have as much competition
3. Giants don't draft a QB at all - wow the entire front office needs to go
So essentially - anything other than a QB high in round 1 is a disaster - which flies in the face of team building and evidence based drafts where at times you can argue it is the opposite of what you should do if you don't have conviction on a guy
They need a new starting QB. There are no guarantees with any prospect but we already can see what happens with the guys we have on the roster now which is a known-disaster.
My opinion of the Giants roster is also that they seem to be nailing some draft picks recently. And in that vein I'd like them to continue to build from the trenches out in order to have an awesome fucking team around the QB. And then pivot to QB if they'd like.
Or they could take the QB now. I really don't care. But I do think that there's evidence to suggest that drafting pro bowl talent in the early rounds is how you compete year over year.
Look at the Chargers. They have made the playoffs exactly 1 time since Herbert has been there and they will miss it again this year.
Having a great QB guarantees you nothing unless your team around him is above average to pretty good.
Which is why I would not mind the Giants taking 3 kick ass players with their first 3 picks. Think of how that could shape their roster with Schoen's 2022 and 2023 drafts.
In this division with a rookie QB with John Mara calling the shots?
It buys them time.
Agreed. They have the built in excuse that you can’t expect a rookie to make the playoffs playing the Cowboys and Eagles twice a year. They’ll get at least two more years.
That excuse doesn’t exist anymore in year 6 of Daniel Jones.
What I'd like to see happen is Schoen trade up on the first round and draft Daniels. Even if that comes at a high cost.
What I think will happen is Schoen will draft a quarterback on the second round, because that is a more tenable course of action for ownership.
i would bet on round 1 for the 5th year option. if there is someone they like with a 2nd round pick, it's in their interest to move up to pick #32 to take them so they get the extra year.
whether that's with their top 10 pick or a trade up from the 2nd round i think depends on who is available with the top 10 pick (duh). assuming they aren't in the top 2 picks, i could see them not wanting to pass on a harrison or malik nabers and then trying to move up for whoever the qb4/5 is since this draft has some interesting options. i wouldnt be surprised with daniels or penix going high or being this year's versions of kenny pickett. there is going to be some rightful skepticism of 5th year breakouts.
JonC always says to focus on what is done more than what is said. Who did Joe Schoen fly across the country to watch play?
These guys aren’t oblivious to weighing out scenarios like Eric mentioned. They will want their shot to succeed or fail with their own QB.
I heard Nix before Schoen flew out there. Its early in the process but I think he’s the guy late 1st early 2nd they’ll covet.
I would be very surprised to not see them go QB in the first two rounds this draft.
"We weren't sure about Daniel's health and we felt the value of [QBX] was too good to pass up. He's smart, tough, dependable. We'll have a healthy competition at QB this off season between QBX and Daniel. Tommy has done a good job too and deserves the chance to compete" - Joe Schoen, April 25, 2024
Exactly! It will be shocking if QB is not drafted high in 2024.
RE: RE: How many more years until Jones is a top 10 QB?
Well, he was 6th in the NFL in QBR in 2022. Did you catch that?
According to ESPN's rankings. He was 13th in passing in a year where he threw very few picks and 4th or 5th in running. Basically, if he is not running the ball and throws picks, he's pretty useless.
There are other site ratings. According to the NFL site's index, he was 18th. According to another site, he was 13th, again off the back of just 5 picks.
He is a below average qb and it showed up right off the hop this year. In the game he hurt his knee, he was 4 out of 9 for 25 yards. In the game before that in Miami, he threw for 119 yards on 20 attempts. We are going nowhere with this guy.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Where the hell are you getting this from? This may be the most short sighted thing I've ever seen you write. Painted into a corner? Who the FUCK other than Stroud, (who was completely unavailable to us without having to have let Jones go in UFA and then spend a king's ransom to a QB needy team) would you have signed? Or would you have "rolled with Taylor"? Or drafted some yahoo like Who did you want? NO one better than Jones was available in the near term FOR the long term. They rolled the dice and gambled on Jones. It didn't work this year. You said earlier that people need to let the Simms shit go. Are you kidding? How many times was he hurt/benched before he became the lovable, "the great" Phil Simms? How many lost seasons, Eric? He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. Remember when he said his wife had to sit in the stands and listen to fans cuss him out mercilessly? He was drafted in 79. He didn't win a playoff game until 1985. In his Super Bowl season, he threw 22 interceptions, which was more than TDs that year. I'm sorry, this myopic take is baseless. The draft is a fucking crap shoot. How's Herbert's record over his first three years looking? How many playoff games has Allen won? They might not even make the playoffs this season. How's the new contract for Burrow looking now? What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career? It's a fucking CRAP SHOOT. Last year, Tua was an injury prone bust. They do what they can, evaluate who they have, and hope something good happens. Good God. NO ONE they bring in next season will be better than Jones behind this line. Yeah...let's trade up for a HOPE and throw him behind this oline and all will be well. Lol. Unbelievable.
has had a concussion and two serious neck injuries. Those injuries have made the entire debate about his performance irrelevant IMO. He'd have to be a consensus top 10 QB for it not to be. The Giants have to draft his replacement next spring in the first or second round. And Schoen and Daboll better get it right or they will be fired, especially after giving Jones that disastrous contract that is going to force the Giants to take a $22M cap hit, the largest in franchise history, in 2025. The NFL Is "not for long." That applies not only to players. It also applies to GMs and coaches.
has had a concussion and two serious neck injuries. Those injuries have made the entire debate about his performance irrelevant IMO. He'd have to be a consensus top 10 QB for it not to be. The Giants have to draft his replacement next spring in the first or second round. And Schoen and Daboll better get it right or they will be fired, especially after giving Jones that disastrous contract that is going to force the Giants to take a $22M cap hit, the largest in franchise history, in 2025. The NFL Is "not for long." That applies not only to players. It also applies to GMs and coaches.
Great point and it's so true.
People here have been debating the merits of Jones the QB for so long it's now almost overlooked that he's damaged goods.
Unfortunately, I've noticed you're in that groupie category too.
It's not hard to understand.
The Giants don't have a QB.
If you don't have a QB, you lose in today's NFL.
Daboll and Schoen are already on thin ice with the fans. The stadium crowd is already thin again (and I suspect DeVito playing is the only reason it wasn't completely empty on Sunday).
When you don't have a QB, you have to get one. Or you won't be employed.
are currently 14-15-1 with a playoff win under their belts in under 1.5 years with arguably the worst Oline in history and a disaster at WR over that time, and that's not even including all the injuries on DEF or at the QB position.
Yeah...they fucking suck and should be put on notice right now.
here's what was done: the Giants gave Jones a four year contract paying him $160M. When they did that they endured that if they drafted a QB in 2024 they would be costing themselves one of the biggest advantages to the rookie QB contract: cap space. Daniel is on the books for $47M in '24 and $23M in '25. So if they draft Maye or whomever, the first two years with him are going to be handicapped by what is essentially dead money for Jones.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
I would argue because Mara doesn't want to keep firing people if he doesn't have to. I think (my opinion) that Giants fans are still smart enough to realize a new QB needs a couple of years.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Where the hell are you getting this from? This may be the most short sighted thing I've ever seen you write. Painted into a corner? Who the FUCK other than Stroud, (who was completely unavailable to us without having to have let Jones go in UFA and then spend a king's ransom to a QB needy team) would you have signed? Or would you have "rolled with Taylor"? Or drafted some yahoo like Who did you want? NO one better than Jones was available in the near term FOR the long term. They rolled the dice and gambled on Jones. It didn't work this year. You said earlier that people need to let the Simms shit go. Are you kidding? How many times was he hurt/benched before he became the lovable, "the great" Phil Simms? How many lost seasons, Eric? He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. Remember when he said his wife had to sit in the stands and listen to fans cuss him out mercilessly? He was drafted in 79. He didn't win a playoff game until 1985. In his Super Bowl season, he threw 22 interceptions, which was more than TDs that year. I'm sorry, this myopic take is baseless. The draft is a fucking crap shoot. How's Herbert's record over his first three years looking? How many playoff games has Allen won? They might not even make the playoffs this season. How's the new contract for Burrow looking now? What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career? It's a fucking CRAP SHOOT. Last year, Tua was an injury prone bust. They do what they can, evaluate who they have, and hope something good happens. Good God. NO ONE they bring in next season will be better than Jones behind this line. Yeah...let's trade up for a HOPE and throw him behind this oline and all will be well. Lol. Unbelievable.
How can you say that no QB they bring in next year will be better than Jones, when Jones this hasn't even been better that other QBs already on the Giants' roster.
Unfortunately, I've noticed you're in that groupie category too.
It's not hard to understand.
The Giants don't have a QB.
If you don't have a QB, you lose in today's NFL.
Daboll and Schoen are already on thin ice with the fans. The stadium crowd is already thin again (and I suspect DeVito playing is the only reason it wasn't completely empty on Sunday).
When you don't have a QB, you have to get one. Or you won't be employed.
It's called QB hell.. It's real. It exists.
I'm not a groupy...I know QB hell is real....I'm just not stupid enough to think like the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Browns, and LV Raiders. I'm very disappointed to find out that you are. Just keep throwing darts, something will stick. It's worked well for the line, no?
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Where the hell are you getting this from? This may be the most short sighted thing I've ever seen you write. Painted into a corner? Who the FUCK other than Stroud, (who was completely unavailable to us without having to have let Jones go in UFA and then spend a king's ransom to a QB needy team) would you have signed? Or would you have "rolled with Taylor"? Or drafted some yahoo like Who did you want? NO one better than Jones was available in the near term FOR the long term. They rolled the dice and gambled on Jones. It didn't work this year. You said earlier that people need to let the Simms shit go. Are you kidding? How many times was he hurt/benched before he became the lovable, "the great" Phil Simms? How many lost seasons, Eric? He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. Remember when he said his wife had to sit in the stands and listen to fans cuss him out mercilessly? He was drafted in 79. He didn't win a playoff game until 1985. In his Super Bowl season, he threw 22 interceptions, which was more than TDs that year. I'm sorry, this myopic take is baseless. The draft is a fucking crap shoot. How's Herbert's record over his first three years looking? How many playoff games has Allen won? They might not even make the playoffs this season. How's the new contract for Burrow looking now? What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career? It's a fucking CRAP SHOOT. Last year, Tua was an injury prone bust. They do what they can, evaluate who they have, and hope something good happens. Good God. NO ONE they bring in next season will be better than Jones behind this line. Yeah...let's trade up for a HOPE and throw him behind this oline and all will be well. Lol. Unbelievable.
are currently 14-15-1 with a playoff win under their belts in under 1.5 years with arguably the worst Oline in history and a disaster at WR over that time, and that's not even including all the injuries on DEF or at the QB position.
Yeah...they fucking suck and should be put on notice right now.
is in the wrong sport. He should have been a decathlete. I said the same thing about Evan Engram, although he's admittedly had a resurgence with Jacksonville.
here's what was done: the Giants gave Jones a four year contract paying him $160M. When they did that they endured that if they drafted a QB in 2024 they would be costing themselves one of the biggest advantages to the rookie QB contract: cap space. Daniel is on the books for $47M in '24 and $23M in '25. So if they draft Maye or whomever, the first two years with him are going to be handicapped by what is essentially dead money for Jones.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
putting yourself in their shoes results in the same answer every time - they will pick the qb they believe gives them the best chance to win.
they have correctly set the expectation that they will be drafting another qb because jones injury dictates that necessity. i'd personally bet on that being a 1st round pick, though i also wouldn't bet on that guaranteeing that jones doesnt end up starting more games next year than whoever they pick.
are currently 14-15-1 with a playoff win under their belts in under 1.5 years with arguably the worst Oline in history and a disaster at WR over that time, and that's not even including all the injuries on DEF or at the QB position.
Yeah...they fucking suck and should be put on notice right now.
The WRs/TEs are not bad. The QB is.
Lol...Yeah, they're not bad. Hiatt and Robinson are the only 2 TEs/WRs playing who would even make a roster right now. And none of them from last year would have started....on ANY roster.
What I think will happen is Schoen will draft a quarterback on the second round, because that is a more tenable course of action for ownership.
i would bet on round 1 for the 5th year option. if there is someone they like with a 2nd round pick, it's in their interest to move up to pick #32 to take them so they get the extra year.
whether that's with their top 10 pick or a trade up from the 2nd round i think depends on who is available with the top 10 pick (duh). assuming they aren't in the top 2 picks, i could see them not wanting to pass on a harrison or malik nabers and then trying to move up for whoever the qb4/5 is since this draft has some interesting options. i wouldnt be surprised with daniels or penix going high or being this year's versions of kenny pickett. there is going to be some rightful skepticism of 5th year breakouts.
Nope, I'm giving my opinion which you guys clearly don't seem to understand.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10-12 QB in football. If Giants want to continue building the team and don't choose to take a QB where they draft, I'm sure Schoen will have his reasons for doing so.
If Jones is the QB next year and sucks again, the Giants will have drafted *hopefully* good players in the 2024 draft, and they can pivot to QB if need be.
Nope, I'm giving my opinion which you guys clearly don't seem to understand.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10-12 QB in football. If Giants want to continue building the team and don't choose to take a QB where they draft, I'm sure Schoen will have his reasons for doing so.
If Jones is the QB next year and sucks again, the Giants will have drafted *hopefully* good players in the 2024 draft, and they can pivot to QB if need be.
If they don't take a QB and don't trade for assets in next year's draft, Schoen/Daboll are betting their careers on Daniel Jones. They may very well do that, but it's an enormous risk. If he has another awful year and any of the QB's in this draft that are picked after us have promising rookie seasons, they'll be fired the day after the season is over.
Well, he was 6th in the NFL in QBR in 2022. Did you catch that?
They could use a lot more impact players and then they can address the QB spot later in the draft and again in a following year or even later if needed.
I would have liked someone to ask Schoen about being outscored 89-17 in the two Dallas games and a few other tough questions.
Quote:
Oh, I understand you completely.
Oh yeah, and what's that?
You simply won't accept Daniel Jones isn't good. You've admitted it yourself. So of course you're going to argue for "BPA."
But you've always been that way with all things Giants related, be it whomever was the GM, HC, certain player, etc. I remember you telling us how great Gettleman was.
That's obvious.
i dont think that's so obvious in the nfl anymore.
another disastrous year and daboll will get fired regardless of the qb.
frank reich had a 40-33-1 record in IND and he just got fired in 11 games after leading the decision to trade an enormous haul for Bryce young.
1. Giants don't draft a QB in round 1 - Schoen doesn't know what he's doing, Mara is meddling, Daboll will be fired
2. Giants draft a QB in round 2 - clearly this is Mara meddling, they waited because now Jones doesn't have as much competition
3. Giants don't draft a QB at all - wow the entire front office needs to go
So essentially - anything other than a QB high in round 1 is a disaster - which flies in the face of team building and evidence based drafts where at times you can argue it is the opposite of what you should do if you don't have conviction on a guy
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A new quarterback buys Schoen and Daboll time.
That's obvious.
i dont think that's so obvious in the nfl anymore.
another disastrous year and daboll will get fired regardless of the qb.
frank reich had a 40-33-1 record in IND and he just got fired in 11 games after leading the decision to trade an enormous haul for Bryce young.
Agreed, a promising rookie year for Jones didn't save Shurmur.
If we draft a QB, you have to give the regime two more years IMO.
My opinion is that Jones can be a top 10-12 QB. Would you like me to repeat why I think that or have you had enough of it?
Quote:
5? 10?
Well, he was 6th in the NFL in QBR in 2022. Did you catch that?
What about the other 4 years? Where’s he rank in yards and touchdowns?
Controlling for whether or not Jones is a good player, the timeline doesn't make sense for drafting a first round QB.
It's not what I would do (I would find out where Daniels is slated to be drafted and use whatever resource necessary to get him), but all that matters is what Schoen will do.
Quote:
5? 10?
Well, he was 6th in the NFL in QBR in 2022. Did you catch that?
Should we extrapolate from 2022? Or 2021? Or what? The Jones contract was predicated on him playing at the same level as at the end of 2022 which, to me, was the only time Jones looked like a good starting QB. Those hopes have been dashed. We have no idea what to expect from him in the future.
I think it will buy them two years but it's no guarantee.
Quote:
In comment 16304604 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Oh, I understand you completely.
Oh yeah, and what's that?
You simply won't accept Daniel Jones isn't good. You've admitted it yourself. So of course you're going to argue for "BPA."
But you've always been that way with all things Giants related, be it whomever was the GM, HC, certain player, etc. I remember you telling us how great Gettleman was.
Wrong again. Saying things just to say them does not make them true Eric.
I hated the Shurmur hire. Thought he would be awful and he was. I preached patience with DG because I thought his draft picks were pretty good, clearly his FA were awful, and then I came around and said yeah, it didn't work, he needs to go.
Controlling for whether or not Jones is a good player, the timeline doesn't make sense for drafting a first round QB.
It's not what I would do (I would find out where Daniels is slated to be drafted and use whatever resource necessary to get him), but all that matters is what Schoen will do.
Yes.
If you go back to Jones, you sign a decent veteran for insurance to play until Jones is healthy. You don't draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round.
1. Giants don't draft a QB in round 1 - Schoen doesn't know what he's doing, Mara is meddling, Daboll will be fired
2. Giants draft a QB in round 2 - clearly this is Mara meddling, they waited because now Jones doesn't have as much competition
3. Giants don't draft a QB at all - wow the entire front office needs to go
So essentially - anything other than a QB high in round 1 is a disaster - which flies in the face of team building and evidence based drafts where at times you can argue it is the opposite of what you should do if you don't have conviction on a guy
They need a new starting QB. There are no guarantees with any prospect but we already can see what happens with the guys we have on the roster now which is a known-disaster.
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A new quarterback buys Schoen and Daboll time.
That's obvious.
i dont think that's so obvious in the nfl anymore.
another disastrous year and daboll will get fired regardless of the qb.
frank reich had a 40-33-1 record in IND and he just got fired in 11 games after leading the decision to trade an enormous haul for Bryce young.
In this division with a rookie QB with John Mara calling the shots?
It buys them time.
Or they could take the QB now. I really don't care. But I do think that there's evidence to suggest that drafting pro bowl talent in the early rounds is how you compete year over year.
Look at the Chargers. They have made the playoffs exactly 1 time since Herbert has been there and they will miss it again this year.
Having a great QB guarantees you nothing unless your team around him is above average to pretty good.
Which is why I would not mind the Giants taking 3 kick ass players with their first 3 picks. Think of how that could shape their roster with Schoen's 2022 and 2023 drafts.
In this division with a rookie QB with John Mara calling the shots?
It buys them time.
Agreed. They have the built in excuse that you can’t expect a rookie to make the playoffs playing the Cowboys and Eagles twice a year. They’ll get at least two more years.
That excuse doesn’t exist anymore in year 6 of Daniel Jones.
My opinion is that Jones can be a top 10-12 QB. Would you like me to repeat why I think that or have you had enough of it?
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What I'd like to see happen is Schoen trade up on the first round and draft Daniels. Even if that comes at a high cost.
What I think will happen is Schoen will draft a quarterback on the second round, because that is a more tenable course of action for ownership.
i would bet on round 1 for the 5th year option. if there is someone they like with a 2nd round pick, it's in their interest to move up to pick #32 to take them so they get the extra year.
whether that's with their top 10 pick or a trade up from the 2nd round i think depends on who is available with the top 10 pick (duh). assuming they aren't in the top 2 picks, i could see them not wanting to pass on a harrison or malik nabers and then trying to move up for whoever the qb4/5 is since this draft has some interesting options. i wouldnt be surprised with daniels or penix going high or being this year's versions of kenny pickett. there is going to be some rightful skepticism of 5th year breakouts.
JonC always says to focus on what is done more than what is said. Who did Joe Schoen fly across the country to watch play?
These guys aren’t oblivious to weighing out scenarios like Eric mentioned. They will want their shot to succeed or fail with their own QB.
I heard Nix before Schoen flew out there. Its early in the process but I think he’s the guy late 1st early 2nd they’ll covet.
I would be very surprised to not see them go QB in the first two rounds this draft.
Sticking with Jones makes that timeline even longer. They will eventually dump him and have wasted those years too.
How i yearn for a rational post.Lol.
"We weren't sure about Daniel's health and we felt the value of [QBX] was too good to pass up. He's smart, tough, dependable. We'll have a healthy competition at QB this off season between QBX and Daniel. Tommy has done a good job too and deserves the chance to compete" - Joe Schoen, April 25, 2024
Exactly! It will be shocking if QB is not drafted high in 2024.
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5? 10?
Well, he was 6th in the NFL in QBR in 2022. Did you catch that?
There are other site ratings. According to the NFL site's index, he was 18th. According to another site, he was 13th, again off the back of just 5 picks.
He is a below average qb and it showed up right off the hop this year. In the game he hurt his knee, he was 4 out of 9 for 25 yards. In the game before that in Miami, he threw for 119 yards on 20 attempts. We are going nowhere with this guy.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Where the hell are you getting this from? This may be the most short sighted thing I've ever seen you write. Painted into a corner? Who the FUCK other than Stroud, (who was completely unavailable to us without having to have let Jones go in UFA and then spend a king's ransom to a QB needy team) would you have signed? Or would you have "rolled with Taylor"? Or drafted some yahoo like Who did you want? NO one better than Jones was available in the near term FOR the long term. They rolled the dice and gambled on Jones. It didn't work this year. You said earlier that people need to let the Simms shit go. Are you kidding? How many times was he hurt/benched before he became the lovable, "the great" Phil Simms? How many lost seasons, Eric? He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. Remember when he said his wife had to sit in the stands and listen to fans cuss him out mercilessly? He was drafted in 79. He didn't win a playoff game until 1985. In his Super Bowl season, he threw 22 interceptions, which was more than TDs that year. I'm sorry, this myopic take is baseless. The draft is a fucking crap shoot. How's Herbert's record over his first three years looking? How many playoff games has Allen won? They might not even make the playoffs this season. How's the new contract for Burrow looking now? What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career? It's a fucking CRAP SHOOT. Last year, Tua was an injury prone bust. They do what they can, evaluate who they have, and hope something good happens. Good God. NO ONE they bring in next season will be better than Jones behind this line. Yeah...let's trade up for a HOPE and throw him behind this oline and all will be well. Lol. Unbelievable.
Sticking with Jones makes that timeline even longer. They will eventually dump him and have wasted those years too.
Could be 2 years but right now feels like 2 light years. Our only hope is that their O-lines start to age out… Kelce/Lane, Martin/Smith.
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In comment 16304595 Eric from BBI said:
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A new quarterback buys Schoen and Daboll time.
That's obvious.
i dont think that's so obvious in the nfl anymore.
another disastrous year and daboll will get fired regardless of the qb.
frank reich had a 40-33-1 record in IND and he just got fired in 11 games after leading the decision to trade an enormous haul for Bryce young.
In this division with a rookie QB with John Mara calling the shots?
It buys them time.
why didnt daniel jones rookie year buy shurmur year 3?
A: because by that time he'd revealed himself to not be a competent leader.
if daboll has another chaotic big losing season next year he will find a similar fate.
Great point and it's so true.
People here have been debating the merits of Jones the QB for so long it's now almost overlooked that he's damaged goods.
2 necks and an ACL. Those are the facts here.
It's not hard to understand.
The Giants don't have a QB.
If you don't have a QB, you lose in today's NFL.
Daboll and Schoen are already on thin ice with the fans. The stadium crowd is already thin again (and I suspect DeVito playing is the only reason it wasn't completely empty on Sunday).
When you don't have a QB, you have to get one. Or you won't be employed.
It's called QB hell.. It's real. It exists.
Yeah...they fucking suck and should be put on notice right now.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
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are living in the real world.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Where the hell are you getting this from? This may be the most short sighted thing I've ever seen you write. Painted into a corner? Who the FUCK other than Stroud, (who was completely unavailable to us without having to have let Jones go in UFA and then spend a king's ransom to a QB needy team) would you have signed? Or would you have "rolled with Taylor"? Or drafted some yahoo like Who did you want? NO one better than Jones was available in the near term FOR the long term. They rolled the dice and gambled on Jones. It didn't work this year. You said earlier that people need to let the Simms shit go. Are you kidding? How many times was he hurt/benched before he became the lovable, "the great" Phil Simms? How many lost seasons, Eric? He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. Remember when he said his wife had to sit in the stands and listen to fans cuss him out mercilessly? He was drafted in 79. He didn't win a playoff game until 1985. In his Super Bowl season, he threw 22 interceptions, which was more than TDs that year. I'm sorry, this myopic take is baseless. The draft is a fucking crap shoot. How's Herbert's record over his first three years looking? How many playoff games has Allen won? They might not even make the playoffs this season. How's the new contract for Burrow looking now? What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career? It's a fucking CRAP SHOOT. Last year, Tua was an injury prone bust. They do what they can, evaluate who they have, and hope something good happens. Good God. NO ONE they bring in next season will be better than Jones behind this line. Yeah...let's trade up for a HOPE and throw him behind this oline and all will be well. Lol. Unbelievable.
How can you say that no QB they bring in next year will be better than Jones, when Jones this hasn't even been better that other QBs already on the Giants' roster.
It's not hard to understand.
The Giants don't have a QB.
If you don't have a QB, you lose in today's NFL.
Daboll and Schoen are already on thin ice with the fans. The stadium crowd is already thin again (and I suspect DeVito playing is the only reason it wasn't completely empty on Sunday).
When you don't have a QB, you have to get one. Or you won't be employed.
It's called QB hell.. It's real. It exists.
I'm not a groupy...I know QB hell is real....I'm just not stupid enough to think like the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Browns, and LV Raiders. I'm very disappointed to find out that you are. Just keep throwing darts, something will stick. It's worked well for the line, no?
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are living in the real world.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Where the hell are you getting this from? This may be the most short sighted thing I've ever seen you write. Painted into a corner? Who the FUCK other than Stroud, (who was completely unavailable to us without having to have let Jones go in UFA and then spend a king's ransom to a QB needy team) would you have signed? Or would you have "rolled with Taylor"? Or drafted some yahoo like Who did you want? NO one better than Jones was available in the near term FOR the long term. They rolled the dice and gambled on Jones. It didn't work this year. You said earlier that people need to let the Simms shit go. Are you kidding? How many times was he hurt/benched before he became the lovable, "the great" Phil Simms? How many lost seasons, Eric? He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. Remember when he said his wife had to sit in the stands and listen to fans cuss him out mercilessly? He was drafted in 79. He didn't win a playoff game until 1985. In his Super Bowl season, he threw 22 interceptions, which was more than TDs that year. I'm sorry, this myopic take is baseless. The draft is a fucking crap shoot. How's Herbert's record over his first three years looking? How many playoff games has Allen won? They might not even make the playoffs this season. How's the new contract for Burrow looking now? What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career? It's a fucking CRAP SHOOT. Last year, Tua was an injury prone bust. They do what they can, evaluate who they have, and hope something good happens. Good God. NO ONE they bring in next season will be better than Jones behind this line. Yeah...let's trade up for a HOPE and throw him behind this oline and all will be well. Lol. Unbelievable.
This reads like a serial-killer note.
Yeah...they fucking suck and should be put on notice right now.
The WRs/TEs are not bad. The QB is.
It is what it is.
You can't win in the NFL with a QB who throws one touchdown pass per game (if you are lucky).
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
putting yourself in their shoes results in the same answer every time - they will pick the qb they believe gives them the best chance to win.
they have correctly set the expectation that they will be drafting another qb because jones injury dictates that necessity. i'd personally bet on that being a 1st round pick, though i also wouldn't bet on that guaranteeing that jones doesnt end up starting more games next year than whoever they pick.
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are currently 14-15-1 with a playoff win under their belts in under 1.5 years with arguably the worst Oline in history and a disaster at WR over that time, and that's not even including all the injuries on DEF or at the QB position.
Yeah...they fucking suck and should be put on notice right now.
The WRs/TEs are not bad. The QB is.