I would argue because Mara doesn't want to keep firing people if he doesn't have to. I think (my opinion) that Giants fans are still smart enough to realize a new QB needs a couple of years.
What Mara wants and what he's had to do the last decade have rarely aligned.
If Daboll shows progress next year he will stick around.
If Daboll has another regressive season, which will undoubtedly come with more embarrassing losses, reports of in-fighting, and more unambiguous displays of bad judgement, he will be gone.
I think both of those statements are true regardless of QB.
here's what was done: the Giants gave Jones a four year contract paying him $160M. When they did that they endured that if they drafted a QB in 2024 they would be costing themselves one of the biggest advantages to the rookie QB contract: cap space. Daniel is on the books for $47M in '24 and $23M in '25. So if they draft Maye or whomever, the first two years with him are going to be handicapped by what is essentially dead money for Jones.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
putting yourself in their shoes results in the same answer every time - they will pick the qb they believe gives them the best chance to win.
they have correctly set the expectation that they will be drafting another qb because jones injury dictates that necessity. i'd personally bet on that being a 1st round pick, though i also wouldn't bet on that guaranteeing that jones doesnt end up starting more games next year than whoever they pick.
They thought enough of Jones to pay him. Why would that opinion change so much based on five games that they opt to start a rookie with a ton of money still owed to Jones?
Matt Citak
@MattCitak
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1m
Coach Brian Daboll said they’ll work as a coaching staff over the next two weeks to determine who starts at quarterback moving forward. Tyrod Taylor (ribs) is eligible to come off IR after the bye and is “getting better,” but there’s no definite timetable for his return
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The organization should take a proactive approach here...they are not going anywhere, check. This team and everybody else knows what Tyrod Taylor is, check. They need to find out about players moving forward, check.
The verdict is then in, let DeVito play out this season, and see if you have a viable backup QB for next season.
here's what was done: the Giants gave Jones a four year contract paying him $160M. When they did that they endured that if they drafted a QB in 2024 they would be costing themselves one of the biggest advantages to the rookie QB contract: cap space. Daniel is on the books for $47M in '24 and $23M in '25. So if they draft Maye or whomever, the first two years with him are going to be handicapped by what is essentially dead money for Jones.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
putting yourself in their shoes results in the same answer every time - they will pick the qb they believe gives them the best chance to win.
they have correctly set the expectation that they will be drafting another qb because jones injury dictates that necessity. i'd personally bet on that being a 1st round pick, though i also wouldn't bet on that guaranteeing that jones doesnt end up starting more games next year than whoever they pick.
They thought enough of Jones to pay him. Why would that opinion change so much based on five games that they opt to start a rookie with a ton of money still owed to Jones?
The obvious answer to that question is health - which schoen said. they can't count on him being healthy so they would be foolish to not give themselves a non-devito (or taylor) alternative.
If he's healthy I agree it's likely they start him over a rookie, unless they somehow luck into getting whoever next year's stroud is (which is luck insofar as most drafts just dont have a stroud that's within reach).
The fact that Schoen basically said he might take a QB in the draft is about as controversial a statement as a Giants front office person has made in 10 years.
Yup. And it's being lost on many.
The guy is fucking hurt. No one knows when he's coming back. You are implying that it would have been perfectly fine or acceptable AND EVEN RELEVANT for Schoen to say something like "we aren't thinking about QB in the draft we have our guy in Jones." Cmon already. Schoen said the absolute safest and least controversial thing he could have said.
These execs offer up a whole lot of lip service because NO ONE WINS by saying the truth. NO ONE.
HE left the door open so no one calls him out on it later on. It's PR.
HEre's the cold hard truth--NO ONE knows WTF Schoen and Dabol are going to do In April. You can connect the dots yourself if you have even a shred of common sense and those dots lead to NYG possible taking a QB in rounds 1-2.
What Schoen said today shouldn't confirm anything unless you have no idea how these PCs work.
and yet Tommy DeVito seems fine with his targets, even with Waller on IR. Odd.
Tommy Devito is +8 turnovers the last 2 weeks and has a QBR of 15 on the least (with a single game high of 34.1). Pressures on him have resulted in sacks at almost 2x the rate of Jones despite better OL play.
He has shown a lot of moxie and looks to be talented enough to be a decent backup but he's been on the fortunate end of 2 opposing QB meltdowns (3 if you want to count zappe).
My opinion of the Giants roster is also that they seem to be nailing some draft picks recently. And in that vein I'd like them to continue to build from the trenches out in order to have an awesome fucking team around the QB. And then pivot to QB if they'd like.
Or they could take the QB now. I really don't care. But I do think that there's evidence to suggest that drafting pro bowl talent in the early rounds is how you compete year over year.
Look at the Chargers. They have made the playoffs exactly 1 time since Herbert has been there and they will miss it again this year.
Having a great QB guarantees you nothing unless your team around him is above average to pretty good.
Which is why I would not mind the Giants taking 3 kick ass players with their first 3 picks. Think of how that could shape their roster with Schoen's 2022 and 2023 drafts.
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You mean like Neal, and Wandale Robinson? Schoen has been hit and miss with his first two drafts. Then you have KT, who has come along this season and I like Banks at CB.
I didn't like Robinson at the time of the draft, and still don't. The guy fumbles yesterday deep in their territory on the end around (that was on him, ball was in his gut), then the next time drops a pass. All they do with him is throw five yard passes. Why the hell did they draft him, to do that? They never use him as a vertical threat since they drafted him, don't get it myself. This was before Hyatt arrived here too.
reaching cult level status with the Daniel Jones groupies.
I'm disappointed to say, but so are you in the anti-Jones camp way. You are so dispositive. No one is saying the Giants don't need to add to the QB room in 2024. They do. Schoen said so. But who they add is simply not knowable. To say that they will move up to draft a top 3 QB, could very well be how things work out. But it's not a fact or even how it must turnout. FA could factor into the equation for all we know. Schoen won't all of a sudden become very stupid if he thinks going a different direction in the draft is the move to make.
The recovery success rate for those seems to be pretty good for a 26 year old player.
Sure he may not be ready for week 1, but couldn't you just bring in a vet to hold down the fort until Jones is ready?
a vet will cost what Taylor cost, which isn't cheap, and just like Taylor is unlikely to go much farther than what they have cheap in Devito.
last year's draft had 2 good ones at the top and a bunch of questions, this year's is probably better than that (and both are infitely better than 2022 was). The timing lines up as well as it can the year after giving a guy $100m+ to get 5 years of cost control if they have a shot at someone they like.
of the situation is the Giants are not going to be able to overtake the Eagles and Cowboys for at least two more years. We're that far behind.
Sticking with Jones makes that timeline even longer. They will eventually dump him and have wasted those years too.
Eric, since you've made your mind up about Jones and what you think the Giants are thinking, I think you'll be disappointed if you actually watch Schoen (not read the transcript). It's as much a "Daniel is our man" as you'll get from any GM in this situation. If he's leaning toward drafting Jones replacement, he's the worlds greatest liar.
Raising the point that Waller, DJ, Saquon and AT have less than 40 snaps together, being down to 5th & 6th OTs, and his tossing out specific numbers of starting and total OL combinations, show where his head is at.
Same thing BTW on he and Dabs re: Wink. Schoen is bemused and rolling his eyes and said he thought Dabs just addressed that. Dabs is his usual bemused/annoyed self telling reporters he's moved on when they keep picking at something he already answered.
Another NYG ink-blot test.
The only reason I'd trade a ransom for one of the QBs
that may or may not become elite NFL QBs is if Jones is in true danger of having to consider not playing any longer because of his neck injuries. Otherwise, I stay the course and keep building the entire team. Eric says as much that they won't catch the Eagles for 2 or 3 years. A QB at the top of the draft while trading a ton of other resources for him doesn't help the cause. What QB has won the Super Bowl in his second year who isn't named Warner, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Wilson? So I assume that Eric expects lightning to strike for a 5th time in 2026, in SB 61 if we trade the farm for one of these guys. Ok.
Eric, since you've made your mind up about Jones and what you think the Giants are thinking, I think you'll be disappointed if you actually watch Schoen (not read the transcript). It's as much a "Daniel is our man" as you'll get from any GM in this situation. If he's leaning toward drafting Jones replacement, he's the worlds greatest liar.
Another NYG ink-blot test.
This is hearing what you want to hear to confirm your opinion. There’s nothing Schoen said today that is meaningful no matter what side of the aisle you’re on.
The path of least resistance for Schoen is trading into the end of round one or stay at the top of round two and selecting a second tier QB. That's my early bet.
He can assuage both sides of any internal debate with that approach. And that will be an exponentially lower investment draft pick wise than moving into say the top spot.
I think the most intriguing question is still whether they play Jones at all and risk injury in 2024.
and yet Tommy DeVito seems fine with his targets, even with Waller on IR. Odd.
Tommy Devito is +8 turnovers the last 2 weeks and has a QBR of 15 on the least (with a single game high of 34.1). Pressures on him have resulted in sacks at almost 2x the rate of Jones despite better OL play.
He has shown a lot of moxie and looks to be talented enough to be a decent backup but he's been on the fortunate end of 2 opposing QB meltdowns (3 if you want to count zappe).
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Folks do yourselves a favor, don't compare a player who was the No. 6 player in his draft year to an UFA making his second career start yesterday. Apples and oranges as they say. If you want to compare Devito with someone, try Taylor.
BTW, go look at how many times Devito has been sacked . (better O line play?). Yes, he's still learning to process the game quicker, hence some of the sacks are on him.
RE: The only reason I'd trade a ransom for one of the QBs
that may or may not become elite NFL QBs is if Jones is in true danger of having to consider not playing any longer because of his neck injuries. Otherwise, I stay the course and keep building the entire team. Eric says as much that they won't catch the Eagles for 2 or 3 years. A QB at the top of the draft while trading a ton of other resources for him doesn't help the cause. What QB has won the Super Bowl in his second year who isn't named Warner, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Wilson? So I assume that Eric expects lightning to strike for a 5th time in 2026, in SB 61 if we trade the farm for one of these guys. Ok.
Jones’ contract is up in 3 years. If a going to take them two to three years to build a roster to beat the the Eagles then they might as well start it with a better QB now.
The path of least resistance for Schoen is trading into the end of round one or stay at the top of round two and selecting a second tier QB. That's my early bet.
He can assuage both sides of any internal debate with that approach. And that will be an exponentially lower investment draft pick wise than moving into say the top spot.
I think the most intriguing question is still whether they play Jones at all and risk injury in 2024.
they will play him if he's their best chance of winning games.
it doesn't matter what is guaranteed to him in 2025 if you get fired in 2024.
RE: RE: The only reason I'd trade a ransom for one of the QBs
that may or may not become elite NFL QBs is if Jones is in true danger of having to consider not playing any longer because of his neck injuries. Otherwise, I stay the course and keep building the entire team. Eric says as much that they won't catch the Eagles for 2 or 3 years. A QB at the top of the draft while trading a ton of other resources for him doesn't help the cause. What QB has won the Super Bowl in his second year who isn't named Warner, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Wilson? So I assume that Eric expects lightning to strike for a 5th time in 2026, in SB 61 if we trade the farm for one of these guys. Ok.
Jones’ contract is up in 3 years. If a going to take them two to three years to build a roster to beat the the Eagles then they might as well start it with a better QB now.
Actually, I'd also welcome a move back into the first round to take a second tier QB if that's possible, and let him compete/learn. I just wouldn't trade this year's first plus next, plus plus plus, to take a QB in the first two picks.
The path of least resistance for Schoen is trading into the end of round one or stay at the top of round two and selecting a second tier QB. That's my early bet.
This is sensible yet utterly depressing. Schoen has to compete in a very tough NFL open market for QBs while playing the political angles on the home front. That sounds like a tall order. And here is another GM planning the off-season with a fear of being fired. A recipe for mistakes.
RE: RE: I would still consider QB a need if we drafted Bo Nix, Michael Penix
Jr. or the like. Penix Jr. had a lengthy injury history at Indiana (he ended four seasons with injuries, including two ACL tears) and Bo Nix has all day to throw and RARELY faces pressure.
And they're both older prospects. So I think spending our Round 1 and Round 2 picks on a different position would be better than investing a premium pick on a potentially replaceable QB. If you're asking whether I would rather have Justin Fields for a fifth rounder or Nix/Penix for a first or second rounder, I'm going with Fields 10/10.
It doesn't matter what you and I think. It matters what Schoen and Daboll think, and how those players then perform.
Do you know how wrong BBI posters have been on quarterbacks the past 10 years??? It's comical. For fuck sake, we had guys still defending Josh Rosen on his third team.
Haha, throwing Milton under the bus :P
But nah, I've been so wrong about QBs too, namely Josh Allen.
Neal is the main outlier with Schoen's draft history thus far. He has been very good at evaluating talent. The nonsense with Thibodeaux, he snuffed that out and knew there was an elite talent there. Trading up for Banks was smart. That is why I am confident in his decision around the QB in regards to the draft.
If he doesn't take one, we can be pretty damn sure that he turned over every stone when it comes to these guys.
If he does take one, we can bet that he believes he is much better than Jones, or will be.
You have to keep throwing darts at the QB position until you hit the bullseye.
It is what it is.
You can't win in the NFL with a QB who throws one touchdown pass per game (if you are lucky).
Jones throws less than 1 per game.
Eric - I'm with you.
rnargi - Nobody wants to be Washington or LV or Cleveland. But, is the answer, instead, to stick with a guy who has proven to NOT be the guy? Moving forward with Jones if there is Williams, Maye, or Daniels (or maybe even Nix or McCarthy)available to you is irresponsible.
If anything, point a finger at Kafka and his system. But, Hyatt and Robinson becoming good and reliable targets. The Giants just happen to be lacking imagination with these guys. Hyatt only runs Go routes or deep ins. Where are the quick slants to the 2 of them?
Bellinger should be more than capable of getting more than the 1-2 targets he's getting. He showed a lot of promise last year. Waller should have been getting more targets when he was healthy. There have been many missed opportunities in the passing game every week.
Me personally, I'd like to add an absolute stud WR or Edge to this team instead of any QB not named Williams or Maye.
I would prefer Nabers/Odunze or Dallas Turner instead of Jayden Daniels. Just my opinion.
I've been with you on DJ. I have supported him and think he has gotten a raw deal. However, if we are drafting and Daniels is there, I'll go nuts if they don't grab him. DI will always top out at 8-12 amongst QBs. Daniels is special. Really special. Moves like Lamar, but has a more accurate arm and far better and more consistent throwing motion and release. IMO, he's going to be the type of franchise altering QB that has a team in contention every year.
Daniel Jones must have some Svengali-like hold on people...
"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
I consider myself somewhere in the middle on Jones the player, but the injuries pull me to the side of let's move on immediately.
However, unless you just hate the guy personally (or because you hate the man who drafted him) I think it's somewhat easy to see why he's been able to stick around and his his share of support.
1) He's literally everything you'd want in a QB in terms of character, toughness and intangibles. He won over 3 separate coaching staffs.
2) You're not being serious if you don't see that he's had very little talent around him and a string of terrible injury luck (i.e. Thomas, Barkley, Waller all going down around him until he eventually went out).
3) He's probably one of the most athletic QBs in the game and his running ability as a QB is dynamic. He played at an all-pro level on the road in the NFL playoffs. Say what you will about the Vikes defense, not everyone can do that.
4) We've watched a lot of the ineptitude around him over the years, be it Engram dropping the game clincher in Philly in 2020 or the general horrific nature of our OL during his tenure.
All of this to say, again, while I don't share the sentiment at this point and would rather move on, Jones has been more than some scrub who brings nothing to the table as some here have been saying for years.
The path of least resistance for Schoen is trading into the end of round one or stay at the top of round two and selecting a second tier QB. That's my early bet...And that will be an exponentially lower investment draft pick wise than moving into say the top spot.
This to me is what makes sense. Even if you believe the neck injuries to be non-issues going forward, his history of injuries is a long one that dates back to his college days. It simply can't be ignored at this point; and if the NFL scouts favor this upcoming QB class as much as the draftniks do, the Giants poor W-L record and the additional 2nd round pick present Schoen with the ideal opportunity to have his cake and eat it too when it comes to building around Jones and insuring against injuries and/or regression. I would've been in favor of the Giants spending a 3rd or 4th round pick on a QB even if Jones had had a Pro Bowl year. It's just good business (check out Belichick's QB picks during the Brady years). And a helluva lot cheaper than spending on the Tyrod Taylors of the world (because you can't go into the season without a worthwhile backup QB).
Me personally, I'd like to add an absolute stud WR or Edge to this team instead of any QB not named Williams or Maye.
I would prefer Nabers/Odunze or Dallas Turner instead of Jayden Daniels. Just my opinion.
I've been with you on DJ. I have supported him and think he has gotten a raw deal. However, if we are drafting and Daniels is there, I'll go nuts if they don't grab him. DI will always top out at 8-12 amongst QBs. Daniels is special. Really special. Moves like Lamar, but has a more accurate arm and far better and more consistent throwing motion and release. IMO, he's going to be the type of franchise altering QB that has a team in contention every year.
What was the raw deal?
Being an early Rd1 pick, getting a shot as a rookie with a HoF in front of him, getting to stay as the starting QB for 4 additional years while coaches and GMs turned over, being granted a huge second contract with $82M guaranteed? Which is it?
RE: Daniel Jones must have some Svengali-like hold on people...
I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkley
This is what tells you they genuinely believe in Jones. They had every opportunity to hedge their bets with the $32M franchise tag and instead opted for commitment (were they afraid the Panthers might sign him away?).
reaching cult level status with the Daniel Jones groupies.
I'm disappointed to say, but so are you in the anti-Jones camp way. You are so dispositive. No one is saying the Giants don't need to add to the QB room in 2024. They do. Schoen said so. But who they add is simply not knowable. To say that they will move up to draft a top 3 QB, could very well be how things work out. But it's not a fact or even how it must turnout. FA could factor into the equation for all we know. Schoen won't all of a sudden become very stupid if he thinks going a different direction in the draft is the move to make.
Actually, for the past 12 months, I have not weighed in on the endless Jones debate. In the 28 years this site has been around, no subject has been debated more than Daniel Jones. Not even Eli.
I was agnostic towards Jones because I recognized the handicaps he was working with.
But now we have direct apple to apple comparisons. Not ONE, but TWO other quarterbacks have played for the Giants this year with no discernible dropoff. None. In fact, TD productivity has gone up. So have wins.
The excuses sound hollow now.
It's been five years. Another season won't change anything. If he's THE guy next year, we will have a losing record and he'll get hurt again. And you guys will be bitching about play-calling. It's as predictable as the sun rising in the east.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Eric,
So you believe that Jones contract was done in a vacuum without Mara? The contract allows them to bring in another QB. Nobody is getting fired because of the DJ contract. Every situation is different. They inherited a mess. They will get the time if Mara trusts them. As a fan since 1956 what I sense is a lack of patience on this site. There are no quick fixes here.
It is what it is.
You can't win in the NFL with a QB who throws one touchdown pass per game (if you are lucky).
Then WHY ever FIRE a coach or front office man? Because the dart landed in the wrong spot? Sounds logical, too.
He's doing pretty well actually.
What Mara wants and what he's had to do the last decade have rarely aligned.
If Daboll shows progress next year he will stick around.
If Daboll has another regressive season, which will undoubtedly come with more embarrassing losses, reports of in-fighting, and more unambiguous displays of bad judgement, he will be gone.
I think both of those statements are true regardless of QB.
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here's what was done: the Giants gave Jones a four year contract paying him $160M. When they did that they endured that if they drafted a QB in 2024 they would be costing themselves one of the biggest advantages to the rookie QB contract: cap space. Daniel is on the books for $47M in '24 and $23M in '25. So if they draft Maye or whomever, the first two years with him are going to be handicapped by what is essentially dead money for Jones.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
putting yourself in their shoes results in the same answer every time - they will pick the qb they believe gives them the best chance to win.
they have correctly set the expectation that they will be drafting another qb because jones injury dictates that necessity. i'd personally bet on that being a 1st round pick, though i also wouldn't bet on that guaranteeing that jones doesnt end up starting more games next year than whoever they pick.
They thought enough of Jones to pay him. Why would that opinion change so much based on five games that they opt to start a rookie with a ton of money still owed to Jones?
@MattCitak
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1m
Coach Brian Daboll said they’ll work as a coaching staff over the next two weeks to determine who starts at quarterback moving forward. Tyrod Taylor (ribs) is eligible to come off IR after the bye and is “getting better,” but there’s no definite timetable for his return
The organization should take a proactive approach here...they are not going anywhere, check. This team and everybody else knows what Tyrod Taylor is, check. They need to find out about players moving forward, check.
The verdict is then in, let DeVito play out this season, and see if you have a viable backup QB for next season.
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You have to keep throwing darts at the QB position until you hit the bullseye.
It is what it is.
You can't win in the NFL with a QB who throws one touchdown pass per game (if you are lucky).
Then WHY ever FIRE a coach or front office man? Because the dart landed in the wrong spot? Sounds logical, too.
Good coaches and GMs get fired all of the time simply because they don't have a QB.
The myth of the big bad New York media is a joke at this point. These questions were softballs.
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What's "can't miss generational talent" Trevor Lawrence doing so far in his career?
He's doing pretty well actually.
Really? By what measure? He's thrown 12 TD passes in 11 games. Eric says you can't win in the NFL throwing 1 TD per game.
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In comment 16304690 Go Terps said:
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here's what was done: the Giants gave Jones a four year contract paying him $160M. When they did that they endured that if they drafted a QB in 2024 they would be costing themselves one of the biggest advantages to the rookie QB contract: cap space. Daniel is on the books for $47M in '24 and $23M in '25. So if they draft Maye or whomever, the first two years with him are going to be handicapped by what is essentially dead money for Jones.
Now overlay that situation with a GM/HC combo that could find themselves unemployed with a repeat performance in '24. You think Daboll and Schoen want to approach '24 with a rookie QB AND $47M that isn't contributing? Put yourself in their shoes.
putting yourself in their shoes results in the same answer every time - they will pick the qb they believe gives them the best chance to win.
they have correctly set the expectation that they will be drafting another qb because jones injury dictates that necessity. i'd personally bet on that being a 1st round pick, though i also wouldn't bet on that guaranteeing that jones doesnt end up starting more games next year than whoever they pick.
They thought enough of Jones to pay him. Why would that opinion change so much based on five games that they opt to start a rookie with a ton of money still owed to Jones?
The obvious answer to that question is health - which schoen said. they can't count on him being healthy so they would be foolish to not give themselves a non-devito (or taylor) alternative.
If he's healthy I agree it's likely they start him over a rookie, unless they somehow luck into getting whoever next year's stroud is (which is luck insofar as most drafts just dont have a stroud that's within reach).
It's not that difficult.
Or they could be very happy with Jones as a QB, but worry about his availability short-term and durability long-term.
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There are several questions that would have been more interesting than those that were asked.
The myth of the big bad New York media is a joke at this point. These questions were softballs.
Didn't stop Schoen from boosting their ego suggesting as much. Savvy move to help keep the questions soft.
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and throw Daniel Jones under the bus.
The fact that Schoen basically said he might take a QB in the draft is about as controversial a statement as a Giants front office person has made in 10 years.
Yup. And it's being lost on many.
The guy is fucking hurt. No one knows when he's coming back. You are implying that it would have been perfectly fine or acceptable AND EVEN RELEVANT for Schoen to say something like "we aren't thinking about QB in the draft we have our guy in Jones." Cmon already. Schoen said the absolute safest and least controversial thing he could have said.
These execs offer up a whole lot of lip service because NO ONE WINS by saying the truth. NO ONE.
HE left the door open so no one calls him out on it later on. It's PR.
HEre's the cold hard truth--NO ONE knows WTF Schoen and Dabol are going to do In April. You can connect the dots yourself if you have even a shred of common sense and those dots lead to NYG possible taking a QB in rounds 1-2.
What Schoen said today shouldn't confirm anything unless you have no idea how these PCs work.
He does? Really? I guess we've moved past his performances against the Jets, Raiders and Cowboys? How "fine" was he then?
Sure he may not be ready for week 1, but couldn't you just bring in a vet to hold down the fort until Jones is ready?
Tommy Devito is +8 turnovers the last 2 weeks and has a QBR of 15 on the least (with a single game high of 34.1). Pressures on him have resulted in sacks at almost 2x the rate of Jones despite better OL play.
He has shown a lot of moxie and looks to be talented enough to be a decent backup but he's been on the fortunate end of 2 opposing QB meltdowns (3 if you want to count zappe).
Or they could take the QB now. I really don't care. But I do think that there's evidence to suggest that drafting pro bowl talent in the early rounds is how you compete year over year.
Look at the Chargers. They have made the playoffs exactly 1 time since Herbert has been there and they will miss it again this year.
Having a great QB guarantees you nothing unless your team around him is above average to pretty good.
Which is why I would not mind the Giants taking 3 kick ass players with their first 3 picks. Think of how that could shape their roster with Schoen's 2022 and 2023 drafts.
You mean like Neal, and Wandale Robinson? Schoen has been hit and miss with his first two drafts. Then you have KT, who has come along this season and I like Banks at CB.
I didn't like Robinson at the time of the draft, and still don't. The guy fumbles yesterday deep in their territory on the end around (that was on him, ball was in his gut), then the next time drops a pass. All they do with him is throw five yard passes. Why the hell did they draft him, to do that? They never use him as a vertical threat since they drafted him, don't get it myself. This was before Hyatt arrived here too.
I'm disappointed to say, but so are you in the anti-Jones camp way. You are so dispositive. No one is saying the Giants don't need to add to the QB room in 2024. They do. Schoen said so. But who they add is simply not knowable. To say that they will move up to draft a top 3 QB, could very well be how things work out. But it's not a fact or even how it must turnout. FA could factor into the equation for all we know. Schoen won't all of a sudden become very stupid if he thinks going a different direction in the draft is the move to make.
Sure he may not be ready for week 1, but couldn't you just bring in a vet to hold down the fort until Jones is ready?
a vet will cost what Taylor cost, which isn't cheap, and just like Taylor is unlikely to go much farther than what they have cheap in Devito.
last year's draft had 2 good ones at the top and a bunch of questions, this year's is probably better than that (and both are infitely better than 2022 was). The timing lines up as well as it can the year after giving a guy $100m+ to get 5 years of cost control if they have a shot at someone they like.
Sticking with Jones makes that timeline even longer. They will eventually dump him and have wasted those years too.
Eric, since you've made your mind up about Jones and what you think the Giants are thinking, I think you'll be disappointed if you actually watch Schoen (not read the transcript). It's as much a "Daniel is our man" as you'll get from any GM in this situation. If he's leaning toward drafting Jones replacement, he's the worlds greatest liar.
Raising the point that Waller, DJ, Saquon and AT have less than 40 snaps together, being down to 5th & 6th OTs, and his tossing out specific numbers of starting and total OL combinations, show where his head is at.
Same thing BTW on he and Dabs re: Wink. Schoen is bemused and rolling his eyes and said he thought Dabs just addressed that. Dabs is his usual bemused/annoyed self telling reporters he's moved on when they keep picking at something he already answered.
Another NYG ink-blot test.
Eric, since you've made your mind up about Jones and what you think the Giants are thinking, I think you'll be disappointed if you actually watch Schoen (not read the transcript). It's as much a "Daniel is our man" as you'll get from any GM in this situation. If he's leaning toward drafting Jones replacement, he's the worlds greatest liar.
Another NYG ink-blot test.
This is hearing what you want to hear to confirm your opinion. There’s nothing Schoen said today that is meaningful no matter what side of the aisle you’re on.
He can assuage both sides of any internal debate with that approach. And that will be an exponentially lower investment draft pick wise than moving into say the top spot.
I think the most intriguing question is still whether they play Jones at all and risk injury in 2024.
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and yet Tommy DeVito seems fine with his targets, even with Waller on IR. Odd.
Tommy Devito is +8 turnovers the last 2 weeks and has a QBR of 15 on the least (with a single game high of 34.1). Pressures on him have resulted in sacks at almost 2x the rate of Jones despite better OL play.
He has shown a lot of moxie and looks to be talented enough to be a decent backup but he's been on the fortunate end of 2 opposing QB meltdowns (3 if you want to count zappe).
Folks do yourselves a favor, don't compare a player who was the No. 6 player in his draft year to an UFA making his second career start yesterday. Apples and oranges as they say. If you want to compare Devito with someone, try Taylor.
BTW, go look at how many times Devito has been sacked . (better O line play?). Yes, he's still learning to process the game quicker, hence some of the sacks are on him.
Jones’ contract is up in 3 years. If a going to take them two to three years to build a roster to beat the the Eagles then they might as well start it with a better QB now.
Everyone is fine with targets. The Giants WRs have run open and amok all season.
Is this where if Jones was in you'd be saying who gives a fuck about passing stats and yards when the O can only put up 10 points all off turnovers.
I think the most intriguing question is still whether they play Jones at all and risk injury in 2024.
This is a way more interesting question instead of will they pick a QB.
He can assuage both sides of any internal debate with that approach. And that will be an exponentially lower investment draft pick wise than moving into say the top spot.
I think the most intriguing question is still whether they play Jones at all and risk injury in 2024.
they will play him if he's their best chance of winning games.
it doesn't matter what is guaranteed to him in 2025 if you get fired in 2024.
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that may or may not become elite NFL QBs is if Jones is in true danger of having to consider not playing any longer because of his neck injuries. Otherwise, I stay the course and keep building the entire team. Eric says as much that they won't catch the Eagles for 2 or 3 years. A QB at the top of the draft while trading a ton of other resources for him doesn't help the cause. What QB has won the Super Bowl in his second year who isn't named Warner, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Wilson? So I assume that Eric expects lightning to strike for a 5th time in 2026, in SB 61 if we trade the farm for one of these guys. Ok.
Jones’ contract is up in 3 years. If a going to take them two to three years to build a roster to beat the the Eagles then they might as well start it with a better QB now.
Actually, I'd also welcome a move back into the first round to take a second tier QB if that's possible, and let him compete/learn. I just wouldn't trade this year's first plus next, plus plus plus, to take a QB in the first two picks.
I would prefer Nabers/Odunze or Dallas Turner instead of Jayden Daniels. Just my opinion.
This is sensible yet utterly depressing. Schoen has to compete in a very tough NFL open market for QBs while playing the political angles on the home front. That sounds like a tall order. And here is another GM planning the off-season with a fear of being fired. A recipe for mistakes.
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Jr. or the like. Penix Jr. had a lengthy injury history at Indiana (he ended four seasons with injuries, including two ACL tears) and Bo Nix has all day to throw and RARELY faces pressure.
And they're both older prospects. So I think spending our Round 1 and Round 2 picks on a different position would be better than investing a premium pick on a potentially replaceable QB. If you're asking whether I would rather have Justin Fields for a fifth rounder or Nix/Penix for a first or second rounder, I'm going with Fields 10/10.
It doesn't matter what you and I think. It matters what Schoen and Daboll think, and how those players then perform.
Do you know how wrong BBI posters have been on quarterbacks the past 10 years??? It's comical. For fuck sake, we had guys still defending Josh Rosen on his third team.
Haha, throwing Milton under the bus :P
But nah, I've been so wrong about QBs too, namely Josh Allen.
If he doesn't take one, we can be pretty damn sure that he turned over every stone when it comes to these guys.
If he does take one, we can bet that he believes he is much better than Jones, or will be.
It is what it is.
You can't win in the NFL with a QB who throws one touchdown pass per game (if you are lucky).
Eric - I'm with you.
rnargi - Nobody wants to be Washington or LV or Cleveland. But, is the answer, instead, to stick with a guy who has proven to NOT be the guy? Moving forward with Jones if there is Williams, Maye, or Daniels (or maybe even Nix or McCarthy)available to you is irresponsible.
Bellinger should be more than capable of getting more than the 1-2 targets he's getting. He showed a lot of promise last year. Waller should have been getting more targets when he was healthy. There have been many missed opportunities in the passing game every week.
The problem is that none of the QBs on the roster are able to find those open receivers consistently.
I would prefer Nabers/Odunze or Dallas Turner instead of Jayden Daniels. Just my opinion.
I've been with you on DJ. I have supported him and think he has gotten a raw deal. However, if we are drafting and Daniels is there, I'll go nuts if they don't grab him. DI will always top out at 8-12 amongst QBs. Daniels is special. Really special. Moves like Lamar, but has a more accurate arm and far better and more consistent throwing motion and release. IMO, he's going to be the type of franchise altering QB that has a team in contention every year.
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
I consider myself somewhere in the middle on Jones the player, but the injuries pull me to the side of let's move on immediately.
However, unless you just hate the guy personally (or because you hate the man who drafted him) I think it's somewhat easy to see why he's been able to stick around and his his share of support.
1) He's literally everything you'd want in a QB in terms of character, toughness and intangibles. He won over 3 separate coaching staffs.
2) You're not being serious if you don't see that he's had very little talent around him and a string of terrible injury luck (i.e. Thomas, Barkley, Waller all going down around him until he eventually went out).
3) He's probably one of the most athletic QBs in the game and his running ability as a QB is dynamic. He played at an all-pro level on the road in the NFL playoffs. Say what you will about the Vikes defense, not everyone can do that.
4) We've watched a lot of the ineptitude around him over the years, be it Engram dropping the game clincher in Philly in 2020 or the general horrific nature of our OL during his tenure.
All of this to say, again, while I don't share the sentiment at this point and would rather move on, Jones has been more than some scrub who brings nothing to the table as some here have been saying for years.
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Me personally, I'd like to add an absolute stud WR or Edge to this team instead of any QB not named Williams or Maye.
I would prefer Nabers/Odunze or Dallas Turner instead of Jayden Daniels. Just my opinion.
I've been with you on DJ. I have supported him and think he has gotten a raw deal. However, if we are drafting and Daniels is there, I'll go nuts if they don't grab him. DI will always top out at 8-12 amongst QBs. Daniels is special. Really special. Moves like Lamar, but has a more accurate arm and far better and more consistent throwing motion and release. IMO, he's going to be the type of franchise altering QB that has a team in contention every year.
What was the raw deal?
Being an early Rd1 pick, getting a shot as a rookie with a HoF in front of him, getting to stay as the starting QB for 4 additional years while coaches and GMs turned over, being granted a huge second contract with $82M guaranteed? Which is it?
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know,
And we're talking about a guy who was handed $140 million,
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reaching cult level status with the Daniel Jones groupies.
I'm disappointed to say, but so are you in the anti-Jones camp way. You are so dispositive. No one is saying the Giants don't need to add to the QB room in 2024. They do. Schoen said so. But who they add is simply not knowable. To say that they will move up to draft a top 3 QB, could very well be how things work out. But it's not a fact or even how it must turnout. FA could factor into the equation for all we know. Schoen won't all of a sudden become very stupid if he thinks going a different direction in the draft is the move to make.
Actually, for the past 12 months, I have not weighed in on the endless Jones debate. In the 28 years this site has been around, no subject has been debated more than Daniel Jones. Not even Eli.
I was agnostic towards Jones because I recognized the handicaps he was working with.
But now we have direct apple to apple comparisons. Not ONE, but TWO other quarterbacks have played for the Giants this year with no discernible dropoff. None. In fact, TD productivity has gone up. So have wins.
The excuses sound hollow now.
It's been five years. Another season won't change anything. If he's THE guy next year, we will have a losing record and he'll get hurt again. And you guys will be bitching about play-calling. It's as predictable as the sun rising in the east.
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If they are even considering a QB in the first round, they are not happy with Jones.
It's not that difficult.
Or they could be very happy with Jones as a QB, but worry about his availability short-term and durability long-term.
You don't spend a #1 pick on an insurance plan.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know,
And we're talking about a guy who was handed $140 million,
Just made one edit above to your very good post.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Eric,
So you believe that Jones contract was done in a vacuum without Mara? The contract allows them to bring in another QB. Nobody is getting fired because of the DJ contract. Every situation is different. They inherited a mess. They will get the time if Mara trusts them. As a fan since 1956 what I sense is a lack of patience on this site. There are no quick fixes here.