There are several questions that would have been more interesting than those that were asked.
The myth of the big bad New York media is a joke at this point. These questions were softballs.
The NY media sucks. They NEVER ask tough questions. That's not the point of NY being a pain in the ass. Our reporters are never informed so they create the story instead of reporting it. They love drama because it keeps them employed. That's the problem. Way too many reporters that get fed shit and need to keep their jobs somehow.
and yet Tommy DeVito seems fine with his targets, even with Waller on IR. Odd.
Tommy Devito is +8 turnovers the last 2 weeks and has a QBR of 15 on the least (with a single game high of 34.1). Pressures on him have resulted in sacks at almost 2x the rate of Jones despite better OL play.
He has shown a lot of moxie and looks to be talented enough to be a decent backup but he's been on the fortunate end of 2 opposing QB meltdowns (3 if you want to count zappe).
One can make the the argument that Jones is better than Taylor and DeVito. But it's not obvious.
Jones: 1-5 as starter. 2 TDs, 6 INTs.
Taylor: 1-2 as starter. 2 TDs, 0 INTs.
DeVito: 2-1 as starter. 7 TDs, 3 INTs.
The NFL is a lot like the NBA now in that if you don't have the superstar QB, you're not likely to be consistently competitive unless you are built like and coached like the 49ers. Stroud is a perfect example what a good QB can do.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Eric,
So you believe that Jones contract was done in a vacuum without Mara? The contract allows them to bring in another QB. Nobody is getting fired because of the DJ contract. Every situation is different. They inherited a mess. They will get the time if Mara trusts them. As a fan since 1956 what I sense is a lack of patience on this site. There are no quick fixes here.
Have you been paying attention the last 10 years? Once the stadium is empty, Mara fires people. Schoen and Daboll will survive this year. Guys like Wink may not. Next year, if they are 5-12 again with Daniel Jones, Daboll will be fired.
If they are even considering a QB in the first round, they are not happy with Jones.
It's not that difficult.
Or they could be very happy with Jones as a QB, but worry about his availability short-term and durability long-term.
You don't spend a #1 pick on an insurance plan.
This just reminded me of Pugh. You don't draft an OL whose best attribute is his flexibility. You draft a guy in the first, especially high in the first, to lock down a position and be the man.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones must have some Svengali-like hold on people...
"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
I consider myself somewhere in the middle on Jones the player, but the injuries pull me to the side of let's move on immediately.
However, unless you just hate the guy personally (or because you hate the man who drafted him) I think it's somewhat easy to see why he's been able to stick around and his his share of support.
1) He's literally everything you'd want in a QB in terms of character, toughness and intangibles. He won over 3 separate coaching staffs.
2) You're not being serious if you don't see that he's had very little talent around him and a string of terrible injury luck (i.e. Thomas, Barkley, Waller all going down around him until he eventually went out).
3) He's probably one of the most athletic QBs in the game and his running ability as a QB is dynamic. He played at an all-pro level on the road in the NFL playoffs. Say what you will about the Vikes defense, not everyone can do that.
4) We've watched a lot of the ineptitude around him over the years, be it Engram dropping the game clincher in Philly in 2020 or the general horrific nature of our OL during his tenure.
All of this to say, again, while I don't share the sentiment at this point and would rather move on, Jones has been more than some scrub who brings nothing to the table as some here have been saying for years.
And yet, the rest of the NFL doesn't rate Jones.
It's so unfair!
I guess they might - unlike you - have spotted his inability to progress his reads and see open receivers.
of the situation is the Giants are not going to be able to overtake the Eagles and Cowboys for at least two more years. We're that far behind.
Sticking with Jones makes that timeline even longer. They will eventually dump him and have wasted those years too.
Eric, since you've made your mind up about Jones and what you think the Giants are thinking, I think you'll be disappointed if you actually watch Schoen (not read the transcript). It's as much a "Daniel is our man" as you'll get from any GM in this situation. If he's leaning toward drafting Jones replacement, he's the worlds greatest liar.
Raising the point that Waller, DJ, Saquon and AT have less than 40 snaps together, being down to 5th & 6th OTs, and his tossing out specific numbers of starting and total OL combinations, show where his head is at.
Same thing BTW on he and Dabs re: Wink. Schoen is bemused and rolling his eyes and said he thought Dabs just addressed that. Dabs is his usual bemused/annoyed self telling reporters he's moved on when they keep picking at something he already answered.
Another NYG ink-blot test.
He literally said they would consider drafting a quarterback in the 1st round. That's way more than I expected.
You don't say that if you believe you have your guy.
RE: Daniel Jones must have some Svengali-like hold on people...
"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
Yup.
It's getting really weird.
What in the world has Daniel Jones done to engender this type of loyalty? He's 22-36-1 as a starter, with 62 TDs in five seasons with 40 INTs and 46 fumbles. Do the math. The numbers are comical.
RE: I think it's important to try to see this through Schoen's eyes
Pretend for a moment that Jones is a good quarterback. If he were, it would make little sense to draft his replacement in April 2024. timeline doesn't make sense for drafting a first round QB.
Love how your moving the goalposts, and now specifically saying "2nd round". Because as I - and others - pointed out how the eagles drafted Hurts 9 months after signing Wentz to a large contract (just after leading the Eagles to a division crown in 2019) - that flies in the face of your argument. Hurts getting drafted in the 2nd round doesn't mitigate the argument; they felt they needed a QB so they spent a premium pick on one, immediately after signing their current QB1 to a large contract.
Of course, round 1 pick is more of a premium than a round 2 pick. That's not the point.
But this notion that there wouldn't be strong parallels to what PHI did in 2020 is bullshit.
But I guess if Schoen waits until round 2, the move makes perfect sense in your warped view, right? Or would that still show that to be a "stupid" move (as you've said repeatedly it would be)?
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Eric,
So you believe that Jones contract was done in a vacuum without Mara? The contract allows them to bring in another QB. Nobody is getting fired because of the DJ contract. Every situation is different. They inherited a mess. They will get the time if Mara trusts them. As a fan since 1956 what I sense is a lack of patience on this site. There are no quick fixes here.
Have you been paying attention the last 10 years? Once the stadium is empty, Mara fires people. Schoen and Daboll will survive this year. Guys like Wink may not. Next year, if they are 5-12 again with Daniel Jones, Daboll will be fired.
So then why did they agree to offer Jones this type of contract? The damage done by Mara and Gettleman has put the team where it is. Mara is responsible for the product on the field and firing coaches and GMs won’t fix it.
The WRs are open. Kafka's scheme isn't the problem.
The problem is that none of the QBs on the roster are able to find those open receivers consistently.
There is a reason the OL is ranked 32nd. QB has no time to throw.
If Schoen and Daboll don't survive this will be the reason. Two years in the line is worse than when they started and they don't appear to have any answers.
Mara, Schoen, and Daboll screwed up royally giving Daniel Jones that contract. Now they are stuck with him for at least one more season, hopefully as the highest paid back-up in the league history and nothing more.
Mara can't fire himself.
Empty seats = someone getting fired.
We saw it 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022.
You are suggesting it can't happen again? SMH.
Beyond that, this team can't win with Daniel Jones at quarterback. Not in this division. They played a joke schedule last year and snuck up on some teams. The 1-5 start proved that was a mirage.
You can get pissed at me all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you everything will be OK.
We're in deep shit. They have to get a QB in the next draft or it's going to be like this for another 5 years at least.
the more I think he was alerting DJ to be ready for competition. He can't cut him anyway because of the cap, and he doesn't want to embarrass him either (he doesn't deserve that). So he says he's the starting QB when healthy while also saying he's adding a QB in the offseason. I think Schoen is going to do whatever he can to bring in our future QB. GM's usually say nothing in these situations so what he said was preplanned and with a purpose.
Eric, you are sounding hysterical about the QB situation.
Schoen will take a QB if he has conviction in that player.
What he will not do, is just take 1 just because.
Team needs talent at Edge, WR, and OL, arguably the 3 most important positions besides after QB.
There is value in beefing up these positions with 3 picks instead of taking a quarterback.
You can say it's ridiculous, but the Giants made the playoffs and won a road playoff game because of the QB they have on their roster right now. Was the schedule soft? Sure. Did our QB outplay Jackson, Lawerence, and Rodgers in those 3 wins? Yes, he did.
Again, Jones is injured and didn't play well in 2023. He was not injured and played well in 2022.
We'll see what the Giants do come draft time. But if they don't take a QB high, I imagine we will be seeing a lot of "I'm done with the Giants as a fan" and they'll come crawling back once they get good again, by drafting better players at important positions, beyond quarterback.
can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
It sounds ridiculous to me and I'm quite sure it would get a chuckle out of any head coach in the NFL.
You think other NFL coaches would dismiss this claim? The subsection of Giants fans who love Jones are literally the only people in the league who love Jones.
Eric, you are sounding hysterical about the QB situation.
Schoen will take a QB if he has conviction in that player.
What he will not do, is just take 1 just because.
Team needs talent at Edge, WR, and OL, arguably the 3 most important positions besides after QB.
There is value in beefing up these positions with 3 picks instead of taking a quarterback.
You can say it's ridiculous, but the Giants made the playoffs and won a road playoff game because of the QB they have on their roster right now. Was the schedule soft? Sure. Did our QB outplay Jackson, Lawerence, and Rodgers in those 3 wins? Yes, he did.
Again, Jones is injured and didn't play well in 2023. He was not injured and played well in 2022.
We'll see what the Giants do come draft time. But if they don't take a QB high, I imagine we will be seeing a lot of "I'm done with the Giants as a fan" and they'll come crawling back once they get good again, by drafting better players at important positions, beyond quarterback.
If they don't take a QB im rd 1 or 2 it will be a blunder equivalent to Dave Gentleman
Eric, you are sounding hysterical about the QB situation.
Schoen will take a QB if he has conviction in that player.
What he will not do, is just take 1 just because.
Team needs talent at Edge, WR, and OL, arguably the 3 most important positions besides after QB.
There is value in beefing up these positions with 3 picks instead of taking a quarterback.
You can say it's ridiculous, but the Giants made the playoffs and won a road playoff game because of the QB they have on their roster right now. Was the schedule soft? Sure. Did our QB outplay Jackson, Lawerence, and Rodgers in those 3 wins? Yes, he did.
Again, Jones is injured and didn't play well in 2023. He was not injured and played well in 2022.
We'll see what the Giants do come draft time. But if they don't take a QB high, I imagine we will be seeing a lot of "I'm done with the Giants as a fan" and they'll come crawling back once they get good again, by drafting better players at important positions, beyond quarterback.
Utterly ridiculous claim to make as long as you ignore all regular and advanced statistics.
Aren't W-L and TD-INT regular stats?
I haven't watched much football in my 56 years on this planet, but I've been led to believe that scoring is a key part of the game.
I'm being sarcastic as I agree with you. I'm saying that both DeVito and Tyrod have been better than Jones this year for both regular and advanced stats.
He literally said they would consider drafting a quarterback in the 1st round. That's way more than I expected.
You don't say that if you believe you have your guy.
Why not? I'm not sure there's a GM in the league who would answer that question any differently. The Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers when they had Brett Favre, the Colts drafted Luck when they had Peyton Manning, but even if you want to dismiss those as special circumstances given their ages, I'd be surprised to hear anyone say they wouldn't take the best player available regardless of position, which, btw, is what he said...
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We’ll take the best player available. If the best player available for our team is at a certain position, we’ll take it. I mean, we won’t shy away from it.
Let's say for a second, Eric, that your belief in Jones's ability was no different than the day you signed him to a contract with $82M guaranteed, how would you have answered that question?
And here's another question for you: it's April 2012, the Giants are coming off a Super Bowl victory and because of a previous year's trade, they have the first pick in the draft. Leaving out trade scenarios, would you pass on Andrew Luck?
Mara, Schoen, and Daboll screwed up royally giving Daniel Jones that contract. Now they are stuck with him for at least one more season, hopefully as the highest paid back-up in the league history and nothing more.
Mara can't fire himself.
Empty seats = someone getting fired.
We saw it 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022.
You are suggesting it can't happen again? SMH.
Beyond that, this team can't win with Daniel Jones at quarterback. Not in this division. They played a joke schedule last year and snuck up on some teams. The 1-5 start proved that was a mirage.
You can get pissed at me all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you everything will be OK.
We're in deep shit. They have to get a QB in the next draft or it's going to be like this for another 5 years at least.
I agree with everything you wrote except the last sentence.
Schoen could just easily go with the Mara mantra that they have "done everything to screw Jones up" for 2023, and make the offseason about the Daniel Jones Experiment #6, designed to bring in even more support for Jones.
The GM double down...
You can't rule out that Schoen is not the right person for this job now.
So then why did they agree to offer Jones this type of contract? The damage done by Mara and Gettleman has put the team where it is. Mara is responsible for the product on the field and firing coaches and GMs won’t fix it.
Of the list of options, handing him that contract was the worst. Even the "out" is going to cost $22 million. There were enough warning signs that it was a terrible idea.
I don't care about the money as it's ownership's $100 million and they deserve it, but that contract was beyond dumb.
You can't rule out that Schoen is not the right person for this job now.
For the reasons you laid out, if the GM is purely trying to go along with what ownership wants, then no one is the right person for this job because the right person for the job wouldn't get the job in the first place. Anyone who doesn't think that trying to salvage jones wasn't part of the assignment when Schoen and Daboll were hired is a fool. They hired Daboll for his work with Quarterbacks.
Has been his reluctance to challenge teams down field. I do sort of agree with JS that things spiraled on us early on. The Oline was a complete mess and when Barkley was out defenses played us much differently. But we've seen Taylor and even DeVito attack defenses down field and have a developing weapon in Hyatt. Hopefully Jones has been paying attention. A version of Jones who is not afraid to attach down field is likely what the team had in mind when they gave him that contract. Still a huge over pay, but hardly the lost cause we say this year.
Regardless, we need to draft a QB. No way we can go in doubling down on Jones. But I would not reach for a guy either, as I should remind you, that's how we got into this position in the first place.
can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
It sounds ridiculous to me and I'm quite sure it would get a chuckle out of any head coach in the NFL.
Again, there has been no discernible difference in the three quarterbacks. Other than what they are paid.
If you can't see that, then you are infected with the mysterious Daniel Jones virus.
Which of the other two showed they were capable of doing what Jones did in the Arizona game? Which of the other two had a season like Jones had in 2022 (or showed they were capable of having a season like that)? You're acting like the only data we have on the three QBs is what we saw in 2023. And just because three QBs may perform similarly under very adverse circumstances doesn't mean that they would perform similarly under more favorable circumstances.
I'm not infected with any mysterious Daniel Jones virus. He may not check all the boxes, but he checks enough boxes that you can win with him. I don't see the Giants as being in QB hell, but the injury history is scary and I wouldn't hesitate to spend that top ten pick on a QB if there's one that I absolutely loved when we're on the clock.
If you believe that he's just not seeing and reacting fast enough
and people massively overlook the differences Saquan makes. Defenses legitimately alter their scheme for him which opens other things up. Jones is a better QB than the other two. The issue has been, Jones would not challenge defenses downfield. That version of Jones, especially with Barkley out on top and the mess the Oline was early on, sure we can have that debate. No one can predict when he comes back if he's going to play scared.
the Giants cut Jones in the spring of 2025, he'll likely garner a lot of interest because other teams won't be responsible for his old contract. But I think he'd only go into the season as a starter for another team if they wanted to use him as such for a year or two before they found their franchise QB. After that, he'd be a backup, which is fine. Jones belongs in the NFL, just not for $40M a year.
Like it was an all time performance. Tommy DeVito is on a 17 game pace that would equal more touchdowns than Jones threw for in 2022. With 5 games left there’s a slight chance he equals it in only 10 games.
No, the Giants would not have drafted Andrew Luck with Eli Manning being 31 years old and coming off his best season.
And wouldn't that have been a mistake?
Yes, it would have been a huge mistake. Eli wasn't anywhere close to be done. In that position, the Giants should have gotten a king's ransom for the #1 pick and rebuilt an OL that was done (and still hasn't recovered).
Why would the 2012 New York Giants want two franchise QBs?
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There are several questions that would have been more interesting than those that were asked.
The myth of the big bad New York media is a joke at this point. These questions were softballs.
The NY media sucks. They NEVER ask tough questions. That's not the point of NY being a pain in the ass. Our reporters are never informed so they create the story instead of reporting it. They love drama because it keeps them employed. That's the problem. Way too many reporters that get fed shit and need to keep their jobs somehow.
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and yet Tommy DeVito seems fine with his targets, even with Waller on IR. Odd.
Tommy Devito is +8 turnovers the last 2 weeks and has a QBR of 15 on the least (with a single game high of 34.1). Pressures on him have resulted in sacks at almost 2x the rate of Jones despite better OL play.
He has shown a lot of moxie and looks to be talented enough to be a decent backup but he's been on the fortunate end of 2 opposing QB meltdowns (3 if you want to count zappe).
One can make the the argument that Jones is better than Taylor and DeVito. But it's not obvious.
Jones: 1-5 as starter. 2 TDs, 6 INTs.
Taylor: 1-2 as starter. 2 TDs, 0 INTs.
DeVito: 2-1 as starter. 7 TDs, 3 INTs.
The NFL is a lot like the NBA now in that if you don't have the superstar QB, you're not likely to be consistently competitive unless you are built like and coached like the 49ers. Stroud is a perfect example what a good QB can do.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know,
And we're talking about a guy who was handed $140 million,
Yes, if you're a deluded fool, you can make that argument.
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are living in the real world.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Eric,
So you believe that Jones contract was done in a vacuum without Mara? The contract allows them to bring in another QB. Nobody is getting fired because of the DJ contract. Every situation is different. They inherited a mess. They will get the time if Mara trusts them. As a fan since 1956 what I sense is a lack of patience on this site. There are no quick fixes here.
Have you been paying attention the last 10 years? Once the stadium is empty, Mara fires people. Schoen and Daboll will survive this year. Guys like Wink may not. Next year, if they are 5-12 again with Daniel Jones, Daboll will be fired.
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Find someone who loves you the way ryanmkeane loves Daniel Jones
And as always, you fail to understand what I'm saying.
Eventually, if everyone is always misunderstanding what you're saying, you have to at least consider that you might not be communicating it clearly.
Or that no one is misunderstanding it.
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can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know,
And we're talking about a guy who was handed $140 million,
Yes, if you're a deluded fool, you can make that argument.
And hence your groupie status.
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In comment 16304340 Eric from BBI said:
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If they are even considering a QB in the first round, they are not happy with Jones.
It's not that difficult.
Or they could be very happy with Jones as a QB, but worry about his availability short-term and durability long-term.
You don't spend a #1 pick on an insurance plan.
This just reminded me of Pugh. You don't draft an OL whose best attribute is his flexibility. You draft a guy in the first, especially high in the first, to lock down a position and be the man.
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"Full bloom love," "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up...," "I believe in Daniel Jones... as a person."
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
I consider myself somewhere in the middle on Jones the player, but the injuries pull me to the side of let's move on immediately.
However, unless you just hate the guy personally (or because you hate the man who drafted him) I think it's somewhat easy to see why he's been able to stick around and his his share of support.
1) He's literally everything you'd want in a QB in terms of character, toughness and intangibles. He won over 3 separate coaching staffs.
2) You're not being serious if you don't see that he's had very little talent around him and a string of terrible injury luck (i.e. Thomas, Barkley, Waller all going down around him until he eventually went out).
3) He's probably one of the most athletic QBs in the game and his running ability as a QB is dynamic. He played at an all-pro level on the road in the NFL playoffs. Say what you will about the Vikes defense, not everyone can do that.
4) We've watched a lot of the ineptitude around him over the years, be it Engram dropping the game clincher in Philly in 2020 or the general horrific nature of our OL during his tenure.
All of this to say, again, while I don't share the sentiment at this point and would rather move on, Jones has been more than some scrub who brings nothing to the table as some here have been saying for years.
And yet, the rest of the NFL doesn't rate Jones.
It's so unfair!
I guess they might - unlike you - have spotted his inability to progress his reads and see open receivers.
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of the situation is the Giants are not going to be able to overtake the Eagles and Cowboys for at least two more years. We're that far behind.
Sticking with Jones makes that timeline even longer. They will eventually dump him and have wasted those years too.
Eric, since you've made your mind up about Jones and what you think the Giants are thinking, I think you'll be disappointed if you actually watch Schoen (not read the transcript). It's as much a "Daniel is our man" as you'll get from any GM in this situation. If he's leaning toward drafting Jones replacement, he's the worlds greatest liar.
Raising the point that Waller, DJ, Saquon and AT have less than 40 snaps together, being down to 5th & 6th OTs, and his tossing out specific numbers of starting and total OL combinations, show where his head is at.
Same thing BTW on he and Dabs re: Wink. Schoen is bemused and rolling his eyes and said he thought Dabs just addressed that. Dabs is his usual bemused/annoyed self telling reporters he's moved on when they keep picking at something he already answered.
Another NYG ink-blot test.
He literally said they would consider drafting a quarterback in the 1st round. That's way more than I expected.
You don't say that if you believe you have your guy.
We're not the Jets, Texans, Browns. We've won multiple Super Bowls and many more NFL Championships. Why are we finding ways to make excuses for him? Winning a wild card playoff game is not the barometer, and the continued defense of, and excuse-making for, a below-average QB with a 5-year track record of what is, at best, mediocrity is incomprehensible to me.
Also, I still don't understand why the team gave Jones a long-term deal; should've franchised him (at best) and then negotiated with Barkely, if the priority was to run back with both of them. But the only saving grace is that there's an out after next year. Very expensive, but it's doable.
The quicker you tear off the band-aid, and recognize your folly, the better off. It would be nice to see that this organization is ruthlessly committed to winning.
Yup.
It's getting really weird.
What in the world has Daniel Jones done to engender this type of loyalty? He's 22-36-1 as a starter, with 62 TDs in five seasons with 40 INTs and 46 fumbles. Do the math. The numbers are comical.
Love how your moving the goalposts, and now specifically saying "2nd round". Because as I - and others - pointed out how the eagles drafted Hurts 9 months after signing Wentz to a large contract (just after leading the Eagles to a division crown in 2019) - that flies in the face of your argument. Hurts getting drafted in the 2nd round doesn't mitigate the argument; they felt they needed a QB so they spent a premium pick on one, immediately after signing their current QB1 to a large contract.
Of course, round 1 pick is more of a premium than a round 2 pick. That's not the point.
But this notion that there wouldn't be strong parallels to what PHI did in 2020 is bullshit.
But I guess if Schoen waits until round 2, the move makes perfect sense in your warped view, right? Or would that still show that to be a "stupid" move (as you've said repeatedly it would be)?
The problem is that none of the QBs on the roster are able to find those open receivers consistently.
There is a reason the OL is ranked 32nd. QB has no time to throw.
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The WRs are open. Kafka's scheme isn't the problem.
The problem is that none of the QBs on the roster are able to find those open receivers consistently.
There is a reason the OL is ranked 32nd. QB has no time to throw.
The current QB holds the ball too long and the intended started doesn't process his reads fast enough to get to those WRs
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In comment 16304564 Eric from BBI said:
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are living in the real world.
They are going to be forced to find a QB. If that guy is another Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2026.
However, if they go with Daniel Jones, they will be fired in 2024.
They are painted into a corner because they don't have a QB.
Eric,
So you believe that Jones contract was done in a vacuum without Mara? The contract allows them to bring in another QB. Nobody is getting fired because of the DJ contract. Every situation is different. They inherited a mess. They will get the time if Mara trusts them. As a fan since 1956 what I sense is a lack of patience on this site. There are no quick fixes here.
Have you been paying attention the last 10 years? Once the stadium is empty, Mara fires people. Schoen and Daboll will survive this year. Guys like Wink may not. Next year, if they are 5-12 again with Daniel Jones, Daboll will be fired.
So then why did they agree to offer Jones this type of contract? The damage done by Mara and Gettleman has put the team where it is. Mara is responsible for the product on the field and firing coaches and GMs won’t fix it.
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The WRs are open. Kafka's scheme isn't the problem.
The problem is that none of the QBs on the roster are able to find those open receivers consistently.
There is a reason the OL is ranked 32nd. QB has no time to throw.
If Schoen and Daboll don't survive this will be the reason. Two years in the line is worse than when they started and they don't appear to have any answers.
Mara can't fire himself.
Empty seats = someone getting fired.
We saw it 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022.
You are suggesting it can't happen again? SMH.
Beyond that, this team can't win with Daniel Jones at quarterback. Not in this division. They played a joke schedule last year and snuck up on some teams. The 1-5 start proved that was a mirage.
You can get pissed at me all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you everything will be OK.
We're in deep shit. They have to get a QB in the next draft or it's going to be like this for another 5 years at least.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
Schoen will take a QB if he has conviction in that player.
What he will not do, is just take 1 just because.
Team needs talent at Edge, WR, and OL, arguably the 3 most important positions besides after QB.
There is value in beefing up these positions with 3 picks instead of taking a quarterback.
You can say it's ridiculous, but the Giants made the playoffs and won a road playoff game because of the QB they have on their roster right now. Was the schedule soft? Sure. Did our QB outplay Jackson, Lawerence, and Rodgers in those 3 wins? Yes, he did.
Again, Jones is injured and didn't play well in 2023. He was not injured and played well in 2022.
We'll see what the Giants do come draft time. But if they don't take a QB high, I imagine we will be seeing a lot of "I'm done with the Giants as a fan" and they'll come crawling back once they get good again, by drafting better players at important positions, beyond quarterback.
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can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
It sounds ridiculous to me and I'm quite sure it would get a chuckle out of any head coach in the NFL.
You think other NFL coaches would dismiss this claim? The subsection of Giants fans who love Jones are literally the only people in the league who love Jones.
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can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
It sounds ridiculous to me and I'm quite sure it would get a chuckle out of any head coach in the NFL.
You’d be wrong. The league didn’t take Jones serious prior to this year.
Schoen will take a QB if he has conviction in that player.
What he will not do, is just take 1 just because.
Team needs talent at Edge, WR, and OL, arguably the 3 most important positions besides after QB.
There is value in beefing up these positions with 3 picks instead of taking a quarterback.
You can say it's ridiculous, but the Giants made the playoffs and won a road playoff game because of the QB they have on their roster right now. Was the schedule soft? Sure. Did our QB outplay Jackson, Lawerence, and Rodgers in those 3 wins? Yes, he did.
Again, Jones is injured and didn't play well in 2023. He was not injured and played well in 2022.
We'll see what the Giants do come draft time. But if they don't take a QB high, I imagine we will be seeing a lot of "I'm done with the Giants as a fan" and they'll come crawling back once they get good again, by drafting better players at important positions, beyond quarterback.
If they don't take a QB im rd 1 or 2 it will be a blunder equivalent to Dave Gentleman
Aren't W-L and TD-INT regular stats?
I haven't watched much football in my 56 years on this planet, but I've been led to believe that scoring is a key part of the game.
Schoen will take a QB if he has conviction in that player.
What he will not do, is just take 1 just because.
Team needs talent at Edge, WR, and OL, arguably the 3 most important positions besides after QB.
There is value in beefing up these positions with 3 picks instead of taking a quarterback.
You can say it's ridiculous, but the Giants made the playoffs and won a road playoff game because of the QB they have on their roster right now. Was the schedule soft? Sure. Did our QB outplay Jackson, Lawerence, and Rodgers in those 3 wins? Yes, he did.
Again, Jones is injured and didn't play well in 2023. He was not injured and played well in 2022.
We'll see what the Giants do come draft time. But if they don't take a QB high, I imagine we will be seeing a lot of "I'm done with the Giants as a fan" and they'll come crawling back once they get good again, by drafting better players at important positions, beyond quarterback.
It's impossible to take you seriously.
Sure he may not be ready for week 1, but couldn't you just bring in a vet to hold down the fort until Jones is ready?
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Utterly ridiculous claim to make as long as you ignore all regular and advanced statistics.
Aren't W-L and TD-INT regular stats?
I haven't watched much football in my 56 years on this planet, but I've been led to believe that scoring is a key part of the game.
I'm being sarcastic as I agree with you. I'm saying that both DeVito and Tyrod have been better than Jones this year for both regular and advanced stats.
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can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
It sounds ridiculous to me and I'm quite sure it would get a chuckle out of any head coach in the NFL.
Again, there has been no discernible difference in the three quarterbacks. Other than what they are paid.
If you can't see that, then you are infected with the mysterious Daniel Jones virus.
He literally said they would consider drafting a quarterback in the 1st round. That's way more than I expected.
You don't say that if you believe you have your guy.
And here's another question for you: it's April 2012, the Giants are coming off a Super Bowl victory and because of a previous year's trade, they have the first pick in the draft. Leaving out trade scenarios, would you pass on Andrew Luck?
Those QBs were drafted because those teams knew the incumbents were nearing the end of their time with those respective teams.
Daniel Jones is 26 years old. 26.
No, the Giants would not have drafted Andrew Luck with Eli Manning being 31 years old and coming off his best season.
Mara can't fire himself.
Empty seats = someone getting fired.
We saw it 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022.
You are suggesting it can't happen again? SMH.
Beyond that, this team can't win with Daniel Jones at quarterback. Not in this division. They played a joke schedule last year and snuck up on some teams. The 1-5 start proved that was a mirage.
You can get pissed at me all you want, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you everything will be OK.
We're in deep shit. They have to get a QB in the next draft or it's going to be like this for another 5 years at least.
I agree with everything you wrote except the last sentence.
Schoen could just easily go with the Mara mantra that they have "done everything to screw Jones up" for 2023, and make the offseason about the Daniel Jones Experiment #6, designed to bring in even more support for Jones.
The GM double down...
You can't rule out that Schoen is not the right person for this job now.
I don't care about the money as it's ownership's $100 million and they deserve it, but that contract was beyond dumb.
You can't rule out that Schoen is not the right person for this job now.
For the reasons you laid out, if the GM is purely trying to go along with what ownership wants, then no one is the right person for this job because the right person for the job wouldn't get the job in the first place. Anyone who doesn't think that trying to salvage jones wasn't part of the assignment when Schoen and Daboll were hired is a fool. They hired Daboll for his work with Quarterbacks.
I can totally see it.
Regardless, we need to draft a QB. No way we can go in doubling down on Jones. But I would not reach for a guy either, as I should remind you, that's how we got into this position in the first place.
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In comment 16304921 Eric from BBI said:
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can make the argument that Daniel Jones is the 3rd best quarterback on his own team.
The fact that you can make that claim without sounding ridiculous is all you need to know.
It sounds ridiculous to me and I'm quite sure it would get a chuckle out of any head coach in the NFL.
Again, there has been no discernible difference in the three quarterbacks. Other than what they are paid.
If you can't see that, then you are infected with the mysterious Daniel Jones virus.
I'm not infected with any mysterious Daniel Jones virus. He may not check all the boxes, but he checks enough boxes that you can win with him. I don't see the Giants as being in QB hell, but the injury history is scary and I wouldn't hesitate to spend that top ten pick on a QB if there's one that I absolutely loved when we're on the clock.
No, the Giants would not have drafted Andrew Luck with Eli Manning being 31 years old and coming off his best season.
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You can't be this dumb.
You have no idea how dumb I can be. It scares me sometime.
Appreciate the self-deprecating humor! I amaze myself sometimes, too.
Hard to take these evaluations seriously of Jones leaving this out.
I can totally see it.
But what if Bo Nix ends up being the best QB in the draft?
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No, the Giants would not have drafted Andrew Luck with Eli Manning being 31 years old and coming off his best season.
And wouldn't that have been a mistake?
Yes, it would have been a huge mistake. Eli wasn't anywhere close to be done. In that position, the Giants should have gotten a king's ransom for the #1 pick and rebuilt an OL that was done (and still hasn't recovered).
Why would the 2012 New York Giants want two franchise QBs?