Harbaugh or Kirby Smart; might be a blessing for Frank Reich though, to get away before the stink takes hold. He’d be an interesting option for OC in NY.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
Young is another of the smallish qb's from high powered big college offenses filled with talent at the skill positions who are struggling in the pros. He is in the group with Murray and Mayfield.
Not that smallish qb's can't succeed. Tarkenton was not a big guy and he's in the HOF. (One of the advantages of Peyton and Eli was that they were essentially offensive coordinators on the field.) I think the modern game where every play comes in from the sideline and it's all tightly controlled does these guys a disservice. They might be better off in terms of maximizing their skill sets if they were allowed to call their own plays and run their own offense.
Ya I am kind of over this weird obsession for these small QBs. I think everyone got way too over their heads for these college-centric QBs like Baker, Murray, Young, Zach Wilson to name a few.
Too many things have to go right for them to succeed.
The pendulum was once for those insanely big QBs when everyone was obsessed with throw power. Everyone today is obsessed with the "mobile QB" who is smaller. Eventually it will go back to how it was
How did our big strong Daniel Jones fair?...
Also, Drew Bress was shorter than the average QB and he was pretty good.
I also don't think Jones is the guy. I've said since the beginning that Jones is essentially Alex Smith, where if he's on the right team he could be good, but both of their ceilings are extremely limited.
My point is that you have to have a balance of the two. Don't draft a guy because of his stature is the main point of this. The absolute adoration of guys like Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, and Jamarcus Russell because of their big frames and rocket arms, or the agility and scrambling ability of RG3, Kyler, Trey Lance, and so on is the reason these guys never produce in today's NFL.
If you take a QB based on physical attributes alone, you will end up regretting it.
Agreed on picking physical attributes alone.
I think it's just what's coming out of college these days.
RE: Teppers is enamored with big names. I could see him going after
Harbaugh or Kirby Smart; might be a blessing for Frank Reich though, to get away before the stink takes hold. He’d be an interesting option for OC in NY.
I bet he tries to pry Jolly St. Nick from Tuscaloosa so Bryce Young will have his old college HC again.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
This is why I'd be open to trading for Fields if the Bears draft a QB. He's on a rookie deal still next year and could pick up his 5th year option.
I'd take a chance on Fields too if we're out of the QB range and we can get him for a Rosen-type of deal.
But I also think Fields would be ideal for a team like the Falcons
I am not making assumptions but allow me to ask, I honestly can't remember, but aren't you both down on Jones? And you want Fields? Jones has done more.
Any NYG fan that is crushing Jones day after day should not want any part of Fields.
Made his money managing hedge funds. He’s a brilliant business man. He’s not going to be patient with a guy that has lost 10 out of 11 games, when the previous coach Wilks won with essentially the same team.
Does anyone remember those 9ers teams with Alex Smtih?
Here are both players stats from their first 5 seasons in the league
Smith:
54 games
19-31-0 record
57.1 completion pct
9399 passing yards
6.2 P/A
174.1 Passing Yards/Game
51-53 TD to INT ratio
72.1 rating
129 carries
450 yards
3.5 y/c
2 rushing tds
Jones:
60 games
22-36-1 record
64.3 completion pct
12512 passing yards
6.6 y/a
208.5 Passing yards per game
62-40 TD to INT ratio
85.2 rating
332 rushes
1914 rushing yards
5.8 yards per carry
13 rushing TDS
All of this for smith was BEFORE he went to the chiefs.
given that he's 61 and, despite this firing being unfair, is unlikely to jump right back into a head job right away. He's at a point in his career where he could be a coordinator that isn't going anywhere and promote stability with the offense.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
This is why I'd be open to trading for Fields if the Bears draft a QB. He's on a rookie deal still next year and could pick up his 5th year option.
I'd take a chance on Fields too if we're out of the QB range and we can get him for a Rosen-type of deal.
But I also think Fields would be ideal for a team like the Falcons
I am not making assumptions but allow me to ask, I honestly can't remember, but aren't you both down on Jones? And you want Fields? Jones has done more.
Any NYG fan that is crushing Jones day after day should not want any part of Fields.
Should probably change my name lol. Made this nametag before realizing there was another TerpsFan
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
This is why I'd be open to trading for Fields if the Bears draft a QB. He's on a rookie deal still next year and could pick up his 5th year option.
I'd take a chance on Fields too if we're out of the QB range and we can get him for a Rosen-type of deal.
But I also think Fields would be ideal for a team like the Falcons
I am not making assumptions but allow me to ask, I honestly can't remember, but aren't you both down on Jones? And you want Fields? Jones has done more.
Any NYG fan that is crushing Jones day after day should not want any part of Fields.
I still like Fields, but I will admit that most of that stems from his play at Ohio State. I thought he was the clear cut #2 QB in that Draft behind Trevor Lawrence (wasn't a fan of Zach Wilson AT ALL). Fields is still young (only 24), he has a rocket of an arm and he's elusive. He still has time to put it all together because he's not short on physical traits. I think playing for the Bears and that shitty OL with few weapons did him absolutely no favors.
A lot of the time a QB busting is because of bad surrounding players and worse coaching. Not all the time though. Sometimes the college skills don't transfer or the speed of the NFL game is too much to process or both.
Very accurate passers: OC's on the field. Tarkenton called his own game. I would be willing to bet Brees had considerable latitude to use his brain on the field
-Botched state of the art practice facility in SC. Construction incomplete
-Removes natural grass playing surface from stadium (angered players)
-Hires Matt Rhule to a ridiculous coaching contract
-Fires Rhule last year
-Names Wilks the interim, Wilks goes 6-6, extremely popular with the players
-Doesn't retain Wilks and hires Reich who did not have a great record as a HC
-Sends premium draft picks and best WR (DJ Moore) to Chicago to get #1 pick.
-Overrules majority of Panthers management/scouting/coaches with Bryce Young over Stroud
-Starts 1-10, fires Reich, has no 1st round pick while very likely being worst team in the NFL this year.
I mean, how many times have we seen Jets and Browns QBs with a lot of potential (maybe aside from Manziel) just come in and never even get a shot of success.
They're confidence evaporates and the team does nothing to help them.
Keep telling yourself that the Giants will be saved by Drake Maye or Caleb. I've seen this movie over and over and over again.
"Slam-Dunk QB prospect goes to bad team and never reaches full potential"
QBs do not just magically take a team from the basement to the superbowl. The roster that is built around them usually dictates how succesful they will be.
The teams like the Browns and Jets are who they are because they rely too much on these highly drafted QBs to magically save them. They put too much pressure and hype on one guy alone to produce and when he stuggles, the wheels always fall off.
The Giants have won two games in a row with Tommy DeVito. You really think they don’t have the pieces here to have an average support system around a good rookie QB?
Not really. They scored 10 points vs Pats, who have a very mediocre defense. And the one TD they scored was a 26 yard "drive". Look how many dropped passes the skill position players had! They are bad group overall
-Botched state of the art practice facility in SC. Construction incomplete
-Removes natural grass playing surface from stadium (angered players)
-Hires Matt Rhule to a ridiculous coaching contract
-Fires Rhule last year
-Names Wilks the interim, Wilks goes 6-6, extremely popular with the players
-Doesn't retain Wilks and hires Reich who did not have a great record as a HC
-Sends premium draft picks and best WR (DJ Moore) to Chicago to get #1 pick.
-Overrules majority of Panthers management/scouting/coaches with Bryce Young over Stroud
-Starts 1-10, fires Reich, has no 1st round pick while very likely being worst team in the NFL this year.
WOOF.
b.b.b.b.but - he's a Hedge fund billionaire!
In all seriousness, his psychotic throwing around of $$$ stole Matt Rhule from the Giants. I wonder where we'd be right now had he not stopped that plane from leaving Carolina? Would Rhule still be here? Gettleman? Rhule yes, Gettleman no, with Abrams at GM? Petit? Crazy to think about.
An all pro LT
A rookie WR who has looked pretty good when the QB is willing to throw him the ball.
A rookie center who has looked promising.
Good complimentary WRs in Wandale and Slayton.
If Waller can stay healthy that’s another promising weapon.
They’ll likely add a guard in FA and a WR in the draft or FA. Not to mention a defense that looks to be pretty good and at worst above average. That’s a pretty good support system for a rookie QB. A rookie isn’t walking into a panthers situation where they traded one of the better wide receivers in the game.
RE: RE: Teppers is enamored with big names. I could see him going after
Does anyone remember those 9ers teams with Alex Smtih?
Here are both players stats from their first 5 seasons in the league
Smith:
54 games
19-31-0 record
57.1 completion pct
9399 passing yards
6.2 P/A
174.1 Passing Yards/Game
51-53 TD to INT ratio
72.1 rating
129 carries
450 yards
3.5 y/c
2 rushing tds
Jones:
60 games
22-36-1 record
64.3 completion pct
12512 passing yards
6.6 y/a
208.5 Passing yards per game
62-40 TD to INT ratio
85.2 rating
332 rushes
1914 rushing yards
5.8 yards per carry
13 rushing TDS
All of this for smith was BEFORE he went to the chiefs.
You should also point out, this was all pre Harbaugh as well for Smith.
There are interesting parallels between the two QBs actually.....both athletic dual threat type pocket passers drafted into less than ideal situations (Smith more than Jones at the time).
Both QBs flashed a bit early on, and both had issues with different coordinators coming in and out.
I think both had franchise QB potential, but went to less than ideal situations.
Young is going to get kicked to the curb already and end up somewhere like Seattle and be awesome.
If the panthers had their first round pick this year, I would almost guarantee that they do a Cardinals with Rosen and draft Caleb.
Interesting thought. Good post and I agree. Young needs help and that offense is talentless right now. Trading away your wr1 when you draft a qb is a head scratcher
-Botched state of the art practice facility in SC. Construction incomplete
-Removes natural grass playing surface from stadium (angered players)
-Hires Matt Rhule to a ridiculous coaching contract
-Fires Rhule last year
-Names Wilks the interim, Wilks goes 6-6, extremely popular with the players
-Doesn't retain Wilks and hires Reich who did not have a great record as a HC
-Sends premium draft picks and best WR (DJ Moore) to Chicago to get #1 pick.
-Overrules majority of Panthers management/scouting/coaches with Bryce Young over Stroud
-Starts 1-10, fires Reich, has no 1st round pick while very likely being worst team in the NFL this year.
WOOF.
b.b.b.b.but - he's a Hedge fund billionaire!
In all seriousness, his psychotic throwing around of $$$ stole Matt Rhule from the Giants. I wonder where we'd be right now had he not stopped that plane from leaving Carolina? Would Rhule still be here? Gettleman? Rhule yes, Gettleman no, with Abrams at GM? Petit? Crazy to think about.
From most accounts, Reich wanted Stroud, but Tepper wanted Young.
Reich, Josh McCown and much of the Panthers scouting and management wanted Stroud. But Tepper wanted Young.
Imagine if Tepper kept Steve Wilks, who went 6-6 as interim.
Tepper has also fired two MLS coaches on the soccer team in Charlotte and the team has only been in existence for TWO YEARS!
I'm pretty sure Costy is in the Charlotte area too and Tepper's growing incompetence isn't even that much of a veiled thing here. Remember when Tepper talked about how decisions were made by committee with stakeholders spanning the organization? Bullshit. He's made every critical decision himself for this franchise, often going against the advice of those he has running the team.
The GM, Reich and the other football/personnel people were unanimous in wanting Stroud. Tepper wanted Young, and if that isn't bad enough, there's a pretty strong rumor that the preference for Young came from his wife who really liked Young's interview with the team (of which she inexplicably took part in).
Tepper has been under constant pressure in the city lately from the way he's run the team to reneging on a deal for a practice facility that was already half built with infrastructure put in place to accommodate highway access. He tried blaming the County until they produced evidence that they met their obligations, so Tepper's next move was to have one of his companies claim bankruptcy. He's then, as Costy mentioned, fired two coaches for the MLS team in the past two years (their only years). Firing the first coach mid-season who had the team doing well as an expansion team and firing the second coach after he guided the team to the playoffs.
He's also become a joke for some things he's said in the past. He once said that he brought live music to Charlotte, which prompted a mocking of how important he thinks he is.
On the bright side, BBI hasn't been regaled lately about the mastery of Tepper's deep use of analytics that one resident "expert" in the field claimed would be driving the team to great things. Somewhere along the line, I wonder what the analytic breakdown is of having a wife want to select a QB based on his interview skills.....
In theory you can, but you can’t do it by ignoring the people you hired and then firing them because your ideas didn’t work out. Football teams can’t be run like a tech startup.
I thought Tepper would be a good owner but he's proven to be a clown.
I am with you. It's hard to tell sometimes where the intelligent person who used data and logic to make a lot of money ends, and where the egomaniac who made a lot of money and thinks he is infallible begins. He is clearly deep in the second camp.
I thought Tepper would be a good owner but he's proven to be a clown.
I am with you. It's hard to tell sometimes where the intelligent person who used data and logic to make a lot of money ends, and where the egomaniac who made a lot of money and thinks he is infallible begins. He is clearly deep in the second camp.
Yeah, it seems wildly at odds with what I've heard about Tepper otherwise.
I think the NFL is ripe for a long-term oriented data-focused approach. Hell, I'd argue we are seeing it with the Eagles/Ravens/Steelers and Patriots of old. I thought the Panthers would go in that direction instead of being a sibling of the Snyder-run Redskins.
Young looks absolutely awful. Dalton came in and moved the ball in the game he played--Young is just really bad right now in the games I watched.
im still buying young - they have no weapons, no OL, and no running game and his toplines of what he can control still aren't even that bad (62%, 9tds, 8 ints, 75 qb rtg). in games ive seen he is keeping his eyes down field, navigating a brutal OL, and giving his receivers chances.
the org is obviously a dumpster fire and young isnt good enough to not get pulled down with it, but the criticism of him imo is way too over the top.
And I don't think firing him 11 games into his tenure was a good move. You picked 1 last year, your team is rebuilding, commit to it and let a coach see it through.
IMO Tepper should have let Wilks keep the job, he proved to be a good leader of Men. I think the Raiders are going to make the same mistake with Pierce this season. Hope not, meanwhile Panthers are adrift with a terrible GM.
Young looks absolutely awful. Dalton came in and moved the ball in the game he played--Young is just really bad right now in the games I watched.
im still buying young - they have no weapons, no OL, and no running game and his toplines of what he can control still aren't even that bad (62%, 9tds, 8 ints, 75 qb rtg). in games ive seen he is keeping his eyes down field, navigating a brutal OL, and giving his receivers chances.
the org is obviously a dumpster fire and young isnt good enough to not get pulled down with it, but the criticism of him imo is way too over the top.
I only watched two games and thought he looked terrible. Missing open guys, etc. He wasn't Zach Wilson but he was bad. I also wasn't really impressed with him physically but maybe I'm missing something.
To be clear, nothing I'm saying is forward-looking, I have no real view there, lol.
Young looks absolutely awful. Dalton came in and moved the ball in the game he played--Young is just really bad right now in the games I watched.
im still buying young - they have no weapons, no OL, and no running game and his toplines of what he can control still aren't even that bad (62%, 9tds, 8 ints, 75 qb rtg). in games ive seen he is keeping his eyes down field, navigating a brutal OL, and giving his receivers chances.
the org is obviously a dumpster fire and young isnt good enough to not get pulled down with it, but the criticism of him imo is way too over the top.
It is too early and he's with a horrible organization right now.
From most accounts, Reich wanted Stroud, but Tepper wanted Young.
Reich, Josh McCown and much of the Panthers scouting and management wanted Stroud. But Tepper wanted Young.
Imagine if Tepper kept Steve Wilks, who went 6-6 as interim.
Tepper has also fired two MLS coaches on the soccer team in Charlotte and the team has only been in existence for TWO YEARS!
I'm pretty sure Costy is in the Charlotte area too and Tepper's growing incompetence isn't even that much of a veiled thing here. Remember when Tepper talked about how decisions were made by committee with stakeholders spanning the organization? Bullshit. He's made every critical decision himself for this franchise, often going against the advice of those he has running the team.
The GM, Reich and the other football/personnel people were unanimous in wanting Stroud. Tepper wanted Young, and if that isn't bad enough, there's a pretty strong rumor that the preference for Young came from his wife who really liked Young's interview with the team (of which she inexplicably took part in).
Tepper has been under constant pressure in the city lately from the way he's run the team to reneging on a deal for a practice facility that was already half built with infrastructure put in place to accommodate highway access. He tried blaming the County until they produced evidence that they met their obligations, so Tepper's next move was to have one of his companies claim bankruptcy. He's then, as Costy mentioned, fired two coaches for the MLS team in the past two years (their only years). Firing the first coach mid-season who had the team doing well as an expansion team and firing the second coach after he guided the team to the playoffs.
He's also become a joke for some things he's said in the past. He once said that he brought live music to Charlotte, which prompted a mocking of how important he thinks he is.
On the bright side, BBI hasn't been regaled lately about the mastery of Tepper's deep use of analytics that one resident "expert" in the field claimed would be driving the team to great things. Somewhere along the line, I wonder what the analytic breakdown is of having a wife want to select a QB based on his interview skills.....
Good grief, this guy is the new Daniel F. Snyder. The Panthers are doomed.
No, in a way, he's worse than Snyder. Snyder typically gave his coaches/GMs a little time before he meddled.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
with new lows today at the press conference regarding the firing:
Quote:
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate
·
1h
#Panthers owner David Tepper confirms they were supposed to trade to No. 2 and take CJ Stroud because they believed Houston would've taken Bryce Young at No. 1.
Tepper says everyone in the building wanted Young.
"We are totally confident in that pick."
If I'm the GM, I'd resign immediately. Tepper is rewriting history
Scott Fowler
@scott_fowler
I'm very unhappy w/ the Panthers for getting frozen out of asking a question at the David Tepper press conference.
Sat in front row; raised hand high; wasn't called on; protested to no avail.
Felt like it was purposeful.
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In comment 16304140 TerpsFan27 said:
Quote:
In comment 16304119 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16304017 TerpsFan27 said:
Quote:
I feel so bad for Bryce Young.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
Young is another of the smallish qb's from high powered big college offenses filled with talent at the skill positions who are struggling in the pros. He is in the group with Murray and Mayfield.
Not that smallish qb's can't succeed. Tarkenton was not a big guy and he's in the HOF. (One of the advantages of Peyton and Eli was that they were essentially offensive coordinators on the field.) I think the modern game where every play comes in from the sideline and it's all tightly controlled does these guys a disservice. They might be better off in terms of maximizing their skill sets if they were allowed to call their own plays and run their own offense.
Ya I am kind of over this weird obsession for these small QBs. I think everyone got way too over their heads for these college-centric QBs like Baker, Murray, Young, Zach Wilson to name a few.
Too many things have to go right for them to succeed.
The pendulum was once for those insanely big QBs when everyone was obsessed with throw power. Everyone today is obsessed with the "mobile QB" who is smaller. Eventually it will go back to how it was
How did our big strong Daniel Jones fair?...
Also, Drew Bress was shorter than the average QB and he was pretty good.
I also don't think Jones is the guy. I've said since the beginning that Jones is essentially Alex Smith, where if he's on the right team he could be good, but both of their ceilings are extremely limited.
My point is that you have to have a balance of the two. Don't draft a guy because of his stature is the main point of this. The absolute adoration of guys like Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, and Jamarcus Russell because of their big frames and rocket arms, or the agility and scrambling ability of RG3, Kyler, Trey Lance, and so on is the reason these guys never produce in today's NFL.
If you take a QB based on physical attributes alone, you will end up regretting it.
Agreed on picking physical attributes alone.
I think it's just what's coming out of college these days.
I bet he tries to pry Jolly St. Nick from Tuscaloosa so Bryce Young will have his old college HC again.
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the Panthers are moving on from Young and this might be a spot for Harbaugh.
If they are considering moving on from BY then I hope JS aggressively pursues it.
Reich denied the Stroud stuff but we will see if he opens up now more on it.
Reich has about 30m reasons not to say anything about it.
They can't stop paying him what he's owed if he says he didn't want Young.
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In comment 16304017 TerpsFan27 said:
Quote:
I feel so bad for Bryce Young.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
This is why I'd be open to trading for Fields if the Bears draft a QB. He's on a rookie deal still next year and could pick up his 5th year option.
I'd take a chance on Fields too if we're out of the QB range and we can get him for a Rosen-type of deal.
But I also think Fields would be ideal for a team like the Falcons
I am not making assumptions but allow me to ask, I honestly can't remember, but aren't you both down on Jones? And you want Fields? Jones has done more.
Any NYG fan that is crushing Jones day after day should not want any part of Fields.
Does anyone remember those 9ers teams with Alex Smtih?
Here are both players stats from their first 5 seasons in the league
Smith:
54 games
19-31-0 record
57.1 completion pct
9399 passing yards
6.2 P/A
174.1 Passing Yards/Game
51-53 TD to INT ratio
72.1 rating
129 carries
450 yards
3.5 y/c
2 rushing tds
Jones:
60 games
22-36-1 record
64.3 completion pct
12512 passing yards
6.6 y/a
208.5 Passing yards per game
62-40 TD to INT ratio
85.2 rating
332 rushes
1914 rushing yards
5.8 yards per carry
13 rushing TDS
All of this for smith was BEFORE he went to the chiefs.
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In comment 16304023 Sean said:
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In comment 16304017 TerpsFan27 said:
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I feel so bad for Bryce Young.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
This is why I'd be open to trading for Fields if the Bears draft a QB. He's on a rookie deal still next year and could pick up his 5th year option.
I'd take a chance on Fields too if we're out of the QB range and we can get him for a Rosen-type of deal.
But I also think Fields would be ideal for a team like the Falcons
I am not making assumptions but allow me to ask, I honestly can't remember, but aren't you both down on Jones? And you want Fields? Jones has done more.
Any NYG fan that is crushing Jones day after day should not want any part of Fields.
Should probably change my name lol. Made this nametag before realizing there was another TerpsFan
I could see him do some analyst work though. Not sure if he's willing to.
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In comment 16304023 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16304017 TerpsFan27 said:
Quote:
I feel so bad for Bryce Young.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
This is why I'd be open to trading for Fields if the Bears draft a QB. He's on a rookie deal still next year and could pick up his 5th year option.
I'd take a chance on Fields too if we're out of the QB range and we can get him for a Rosen-type of deal.
But I also think Fields would be ideal for a team like the Falcons
I am not making assumptions but allow me to ask, I honestly can't remember, but aren't you both down on Jones? And you want Fields? Jones has done more.
Any NYG fan that is crushing Jones day after day should not want any part of Fields.
I still like Fields, but I will admit that most of that stems from his play at Ohio State. I thought he was the clear cut #2 QB in that Draft behind Trevor Lawrence (wasn't a fan of Zach Wilson AT ALL). Fields is still young (only 24), he has a rocket of an arm and he's elusive. He still has time to put it all together because he's not short on physical traits. I think playing for the Bears and that shitty OL with few weapons did him absolutely no favors.
Yes, that is the speculation.
Young may work out, but he's going to need a lot of support.
Reich is a very good QB coach. It's going to be very interesting to see who Tepper targets and who even want to work with Tepper.
David Tepper is the problem with the Panthers - ( New Window )
If they are considering moving on from BY then I hope JS aggressively pursues it.
Reich denied the Stroud stuff but we will see if he opens up now more on it.
Harbaugh and Tepper would be like oil and water. Tepper is too much of a micromanager and Harbaugh is going to want heavy input into alot of things.
-Removes natural grass playing surface from stadium (angered players)
-Hires Matt Rhule to a ridiculous coaching contract
-Fires Rhule last year
-Names Wilks the interim, Wilks goes 6-6, extremely popular with the players
-Doesn't retain Wilks and hires Reich who did not have a great record as a HC
-Sends premium draft picks and best WR (DJ Moore) to Chicago to get #1 pick.
-Overrules majority of Panthers management/scouting/coaches with Bryce Young over Stroud
-Starts 1-10, fires Reich, has no 1st round pick while very likely being worst team in the NFL this year.
WOOF.
Who knew at the time both franchises would still be stuck in the mud a few years later
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I mean, how many times have we seen Jets and Browns QBs with a lot of potential (maybe aside from Manziel) just come in and never even get a shot of success.
They're confidence evaporates and the team does nothing to help them.
Keep telling yourself that the Giants will be saved by Drake Maye or Caleb. I've seen this movie over and over and over again.
"Slam-Dunk QB prospect goes to bad team and never reaches full potential"
QBs do not just magically take a team from the basement to the superbowl. The roster that is built around them usually dictates how succesful they will be.
The teams like the Browns and Jets are who they are because they rely too much on these highly drafted QBs to magically save them. They put too much pressure and hype on one guy alone to produce and when he stuggles, the wheels always fall off.
The Giants have won two games in a row with Tommy DeVito. You really think they don’t have the pieces here to have an average support system around a good rookie QB?
Not really. They scored 10 points vs Pats, who have a very mediocre defense. And the one TD they scored was a 26 yard "drive". Look how many dropped passes the skill position players had! They are bad group overall
-Removes natural grass playing surface from stadium (angered players)
-Hires Matt Rhule to a ridiculous coaching contract
-Fires Rhule last year
-Names Wilks the interim, Wilks goes 6-6, extremely popular with the players
-Doesn't retain Wilks and hires Reich who did not have a great record as a HC
-Sends premium draft picks and best WR (DJ Moore) to Chicago to get #1 pick.
-Overrules majority of Panthers management/scouting/coaches with Bryce Young over Stroud
-Starts 1-10, fires Reich, has no 1st round pick while very likely being worst team in the NFL this year.
WOOF.
b.b.b.b.but - he's a Hedge fund billionaire!
In all seriousness, his psychotic throwing around of $$$ stole Matt Rhule from the Giants. I wonder where we'd be right now had he not stopped that plane from leaving Carolina? Would Rhule still be here? Gettleman? Rhule yes, Gettleman no, with Abrams at GM? Petit? Crazy to think about.
A rookie WR who has looked pretty good when the QB is willing to throw him the ball.
A rookie center who has looked promising.
Good complimentary WRs in Wandale and Slayton.
If Waller can stay healthy that’s another promising weapon.
They’ll likely add a guard in FA and a WR in the draft or FA. Not to mention a defense that looks to be pretty good and at worst above average. That’s a pretty good support system for a rookie QB. A rookie isn’t walking into a panthers situation where they traded one of the better wide receivers in the game.
I bet he tries to pry Jolly St. Nick from Tuscaloosa so Bryce Young will have his old college HC again.
How drunk would Saban have to be to agree to that (unless he wanted a slush fund for his retirement??)
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To keep comparing Daniel Jones to him.
Does anyone remember those 9ers teams with Alex Smtih?
Here are both players stats from their first 5 seasons in the league
Smith:
54 games
19-31-0 record
57.1 completion pct
9399 passing yards
6.2 P/A
174.1 Passing Yards/Game
51-53 TD to INT ratio
72.1 rating
129 carries
450 yards
3.5 y/c
2 rushing tds
Jones:
60 games
22-36-1 record
64.3 completion pct
12512 passing yards
6.6 y/a
208.5 Passing yards per game
62-40 TD to INT ratio
85.2 rating
332 rushes
1914 rushing yards
5.8 yards per carry
13 rushing TDS
All of this for smith was BEFORE he went to the chiefs.
You should also point out, this was all pre Harbaugh as well for Smith.
There are interesting parallels between the two QBs actually.....both athletic dual threat type pocket passers drafted into less than ideal situations (Smith more than Jones at the time).
Both QBs flashed a bit early on, and both had issues with different coordinators coming in and out.
I think both had franchise QB potential, but went to less than ideal situations.
If the panthers had their first round pick this year, I would almost guarantee that they do a Cardinals with Rosen and draft Caleb.
Interesting thought. Good post and I agree. Young needs help and that offense is talentless right now. Trading away your wr1 when you draft a qb is a head scratcher
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-Botched state of the art practice facility in SC. Construction incomplete
-Removes natural grass playing surface from stadium (angered players)
-Hires Matt Rhule to a ridiculous coaching contract
-Fires Rhule last year
-Names Wilks the interim, Wilks goes 6-6, extremely popular with the players
-Doesn't retain Wilks and hires Reich who did not have a great record as a HC
-Sends premium draft picks and best WR (DJ Moore) to Chicago to get #1 pick.
-Overrules majority of Panthers management/scouting/coaches with Bryce Young over Stroud
-Starts 1-10, fires Reich, has no 1st round pick while very likely being worst team in the NFL this year.
WOOF.
b.b.b.b.but - he's a Hedge fund billionaire!
In all seriousness, his psychotic throwing around of $$$ stole Matt Rhule from the Giants. I wonder where we'd be right now had he not stopped that plane from leaving Carolina? Would Rhule still be here? Gettleman? Rhule yes, Gettleman no, with Abrams at GM? Petit? Crazy to think about.
He thinks you can buy your way to winning.
alex smith through age 26 (which was his 6th season and includes 1 missed year due to shoulder injury):
19 wins - 31 losses
51 tds - 53 ints
56% comp%
alex smith from age 27+
80 wins - 36 losses
148 tds - 56 ints
65% comp%
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From most accounts, Reich wanted Stroud, but Tepper wanted Young.
Reich, Josh McCown and much of the Panthers scouting and management wanted Stroud. But Tepper wanted Young.
Imagine if Tepper kept Steve Wilks, who went 6-6 as interim.
Tepper has also fired two MLS coaches on the soccer team in Charlotte and the team has only been in existence for TWO YEARS!
I'm pretty sure Costy is in the Charlotte area too and Tepper's growing incompetence isn't even that much of a veiled thing here. Remember when Tepper talked about how decisions were made by committee with stakeholders spanning the organization? Bullshit. He's made every critical decision himself for this franchise, often going against the advice of those he has running the team.
The GM, Reich and the other football/personnel people were unanimous in wanting Stroud. Tepper wanted Young, and if that isn't bad enough, there's a pretty strong rumor that the preference for Young came from his wife who really liked Young's interview with the team (of which she inexplicably took part in).
Tepper has been under constant pressure in the city lately from the way he's run the team to reneging on a deal for a practice facility that was already half built with infrastructure put in place to accommodate highway access. He tried blaming the County until they produced evidence that they met their obligations, so Tepper's next move was to have one of his companies claim bankruptcy. He's then, as Costy mentioned, fired two coaches for the MLS team in the past two years (their only years). Firing the first coach mid-season who had the team doing well as an expansion team and firing the second coach after he guided the team to the playoffs.
He's also become a joke for some things he's said in the past. He once said that he brought live music to Charlotte, which prompted a mocking of how important he thinks he is.
On the bright side, BBI hasn't been regaled lately about the mastery of Tepper's deep use of analytics that one resident "expert" in the field claimed would be driving the team to great things. Somewhere along the line, I wonder what the analytic breakdown is of having a wife want to select a QB based on his interview skills.....
He thinks you can buy your way to winning.
In theory you can, but you can’t do it by ignoring the people you hired and then firing them because your ideas didn’t work out. Football teams can’t be run like a tech startup.
I am with you. It's hard to tell sometimes where the intelligent person who used data and logic to make a lot of money ends, and where the egomaniac who made a lot of money and thinks he is infallible begins. He is clearly deep in the second camp.
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I thought Tepper would be a good owner but he's proven to be a clown.
I am with you. It's hard to tell sometimes where the intelligent person who used data and logic to make a lot of money ends, and where the egomaniac who made a lot of money and thinks he is infallible begins. He is clearly deep in the second camp.
Yeah, it seems wildly at odds with what I've heard about Tepper otherwise.
I think the NFL is ripe for a long-term oriented data-focused approach. Hell, I'd argue we are seeing it with the Eagles/Ravens/Steelers and Patriots of old. I thought the Panthers would go in that direction instead of being a sibling of the Snyder-run Redskins.
im still buying young - they have no weapons, no OL, and no running game and his toplines of what he can control still aren't even that bad (62%, 9tds, 8 ints, 75 qb rtg). in games ive seen he is keeping his eyes down field, navigating a brutal OL, and giving his receivers chances.
the org is obviously a dumpster fire and young isnt good enough to not get pulled down with it, but the criticism of him imo is way too over the top.
IMO Tepper should have let Wilks keep the job, he proved to be a good leader of Men. I think the Raiders are going to make the same mistake with Pierce this season. Hope not, meanwhile Panthers are adrift with a terrible GM.
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Young looks absolutely awful. Dalton came in and moved the ball in the game he played--Young is just really bad right now in the games I watched.
im still buying young - they have no weapons, no OL, and no running game and his toplines of what he can control still aren't even that bad (62%, 9tds, 8 ints, 75 qb rtg). in games ive seen he is keeping his eyes down field, navigating a brutal OL, and giving his receivers chances.
the org is obviously a dumpster fire and young isnt good enough to not get pulled down with it, but the criticism of him imo is way too over the top.
I only watched two games and thought he looked terrible. Missing open guys, etc. He wasn't Zach Wilson but he was bad. I also wasn't really impressed with him physically but maybe I'm missing something.
To be clear, nothing I'm saying is forward-looking, I have no real view there, lol.
That's crazy, I was told that owners never decide on the QB.
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Young looks absolutely awful. Dalton came in and moved the ball in the game he played--Young is just really bad right now in the games I watched.
im still buying young - they have no weapons, no OL, and no running game and his toplines of what he can control still aren't even that bad (62%, 9tds, 8 ints, 75 qb rtg). in games ive seen he is keeping his eyes down field, navigating a brutal OL, and giving his receivers chances.
the org is obviously a dumpster fire and young isnt good enough to not get pulled down with it, but the criticism of him imo is way too over the top.
It is too early and he's with a horrible organization right now.
But his size issue wasn't exaggerated.
He's a good coach.
Quote:
In comment 16304024 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
From most accounts, Reich wanted Stroud, but Tepper wanted Young.
Reich, Josh McCown and much of the Panthers scouting and management wanted Stroud. But Tepper wanted Young.
Imagine if Tepper kept Steve Wilks, who went 6-6 as interim.
Tepper has also fired two MLS coaches on the soccer team in Charlotte and the team has only been in existence for TWO YEARS!
I'm pretty sure Costy is in the Charlotte area too and Tepper's growing incompetence isn't even that much of a veiled thing here. Remember when Tepper talked about how decisions were made by committee with stakeholders spanning the organization? Bullshit. He's made every critical decision himself for this franchise, often going against the advice of those he has running the team.
The GM, Reich and the other football/personnel people were unanimous in wanting Stroud. Tepper wanted Young, and if that isn't bad enough, there's a pretty strong rumor that the preference for Young came from his wife who really liked Young's interview with the team (of which she inexplicably took part in).
Tepper has been under constant pressure in the city lately from the way he's run the team to reneging on a deal for a practice facility that was already half built with infrastructure put in place to accommodate highway access. He tried blaming the County until they produced evidence that they met their obligations, so Tepper's next move was to have one of his companies claim bankruptcy. He's then, as Costy mentioned, fired two coaches for the MLS team in the past two years (their only years). Firing the first coach mid-season who had the team doing well as an expansion team and firing the second coach after he guided the team to the playoffs.
He's also become a joke for some things he's said in the past. He once said that he brought live music to Charlotte, which prompted a mocking of how important he thinks he is.
On the bright side, BBI hasn't been regaled lately about the mastery of Tepper's deep use of analytics that one resident "expert" in the field claimed would be driving the team to great things. Somewhere along the line, I wonder what the analytic breakdown is of having a wife want to select a QB based on his interview skills.....
Good grief, this guy is the new Daniel F. Snyder. The Panthers are doomed.
No, in a way, he's worse than Snyder. Snyder typically gave his coaches/GMs a little time before he meddled.
It is becoming abundantly clear that 75 percent of time QB busts happen not because of some innate personal flaw or problem in their games or decision making, but rather the roster that they are surrounded with when they begin their careers.
Purdy and Hurts began their careers with 2 of the best offensive lines and weapons in the entire league.
Does anyone really think Hurts would be who he is if he was on the Jets?
Agree completely.
@MySportsUpdate
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1h
#Panthers owner David Tepper confirms they were supposed to trade to No. 2 and take CJ Stroud because they believed Houston would've taken Bryce Young at No. 1.
Tepper says everyone in the building wanted Young.
"We are totally confident in that pick."
If I'm the GM, I'd resign immediately. Tepper is rewriting history
Scott Fowler
@scott_fowler
I'm very unhappy w/ the Panthers for getting frozen out of asking a question at the David Tepper press conference.
Sat in front row; raised hand high; wasn't called on; protested to no avail.
Felt like it was purposeful.